German Higher level

spongebobgirl

Nehpets wrote:

So Mocthe, soll, will

Whats sie mocthen? :S argh I knew these perfectly only a few weeks ago

It's 'sie mogen'! Just revise them tomorrow... or right now! You use them so often, believe me it's the best thing to revise for both levels.

Turnip2000

spongebobgirl wrote:

No no no, Junge and Herr are irregular nouns. You only add an N to plural nouns in the dative normally, but those two are one of three (+ 'Kollege') that are 'strong' nouns, they take an N even in the akkusativ.

Ye i can remember writting this down...Herrn and the likes.

Shes dead right.:cool:

spongebobgirl

Nehpets wrote:

So Mocthe, soll, will

Whats sie mocthen? :S argh I knew these perfectly only a few weeks ago

Sorry sorry.... 'wir möchten' means 'we would like'. 'Wir mögen' means we like.

spongebobgirl

Turnip2000 wrote:

Ye i can remember writting this down...Herrn and the likes.

Shes dead right.:cool:

Damn right... would I lie to ye?!

Turnip2000

Nehpets wrote:

So Mocthe, soll, will

Whats sie mocthen? :S argh I knew these perfectly only a few weeks ago

They are
'mögen' to like to
'können' to be able to (can)
'wollen' to want to
'sollen' to ought to (should)
'müssen' to have to (must)
'dürfen' to be allowed to (may)

lucernarian

E92, I couldn't even understand your high-mark answer (which is a full-mark answer really). For someone looking for a B, surely the first answer was up to the task, considering it had no spelling/grammar mistakes?

Turnip2000, what is the list for the likes of "mochten" and the other "would xxxx to" verbs?

Nehpets

Turnip2000 wrote:

They are
'mögen' to like to
'können' to be able to (can)
'wollen' to want to
'sollen' to ought to (should)
'müssen' to have to (must)
'dürfen' to be allowed to (may)

Cool, thanks! oder danke!

spongebobgirl

Turnip2000 wrote:

They are
'mögen' to like to
'können' to be able to (can)
'wollen' to want to
'sollen' to ought to (should)
'müssen' to have to (must)
'dürfen' to be allowed to (may)

Memember that 'Ich werde' means I will and 'Ich will' means I want to!

Turnip2000

To_be_confirmed wrote:

E92
Turnip2000, what is the list for the likes of "mochten" and the other "would xxxx to" verbs?

I don't understand what your asking....but id say that all your questions will be answered on www.skoool.ie

spongebobgirl

Turnip2000 wrote:

I don't understand what your asking....but id say that all your questions will be answered on www.skoool.ie

The only conditional ('would...') verb you'll need is möchten, conjugated thusly:

ich möchte
du möchtest
er/sie/es möchte
wir möchten
ihr möchtet
sie möchtet...... like a nomal verb basically!




(I'm off, good luck everybody!)

E92

To_be_confirmed wrote:

E92, I couldn't even understand your high-mark answer (which is a full-mark answer really). For someone looking for a B, surely the first answer was up to the task, considering it had no spelling/grammar mistakes?

Turnip2000, what is the list for the likes of "mochten" and the other "would xxxx to" verbs?

I wrote down the translation down underneath my 'high mark answer'. Every sentence I wrote in German is translated to English. If you find German tough, then the best thing is to keep it simple. The first one probably would have done the job in terms of content(perhaps 4 out of 5), but I didnt do anything extraordinary for written expression, even though its grammatically right. Perhaps 16-18 out of 25. Whereas the second one should get 5 our of 5 for content and full(or almost full) marks for written expression. But the examiner has 5 discretionary marks available for content, which they are supposed to give for something perhaps different or special. I would imagine for what I wrote in my second paragraph auf Deutsch that I would get 1 or 2 extra marks. I cant say for sure clearly. I'm only making an educated guess


Übringends, tut es mir leid spongebobgirl. Aber ich hab das bevor nie gehört. Sind es andere Substantive, die nicht regelmäßig sind? Und wenn ja, kannst du mir bitte die Formen geben?(PS ich weiß, wo meine Fehler oben stehen, aber was das State Examinations Commission wollen zu hören, und was die Deutsch eigentlich sagen ist sehr anderes.(Ich nehme an, dass du nicht Deutsche bist oder nicht aus Deutschland kommst....wenn du auf Deutshland kommst oder Deutsche bist, dann hättest du das schon bemerkt))

lucernarian

Oh I saw the translation allright. I just couldn't understand it without the translation below. At an educated guess, you would get a bit more than 1 or 2 extra marks. Surely an examiner would be struck by a grammatically perfect answer!

Note how I'm trying to keep up my confidence:d

A "B" my arse, I'll be lucky to get the C.

madnirvana

hi please anyone

how would you know something is akusative or dative ?

and wats the diffference between

werden, wurden, and würden ??

cocoa

E92 wrote:

Sind es andere Substantive

Seriously, was that on purpose? and do germans actually say that instead of gibt?

just checking

Nehpets

Ich bin selbsicher uber die Prufung. Ich bin nicht prima aber ich will nur ein "C" mark. Ich benutze "ein" und "eine" aufs Geratewohl! lol Ich mag Deutsch und ich möchte nach Deutschland fahren! Es wird gesagt die Deutschen haben keinen Sinn fur Humor aber ich glaube nicht! Es wird gesagt die Iren liebe die Alkohol. Eigentlich ist dass echt! Es wird gesagt das die Iren haben rote haare! Jetzt ist dass nicht so echt. Viele leute haben rote haare aber viele leute haben braune, blond und schwarz haare! Jeder ist anderes! Ich habe viele irrtum heir lol Please correct if you want something to do!

E92

cocoa wrote:

Seriously, was that on purpose? and do germans actually say that instead of gibt?

just checking

DON'T write down 'sind es' in the exam. As you might have noticed its not grammatically correct, so you'll lose marks for it. Stick with gibt. And yes they do say it. They also say Ahnung instead of Idee, and never ever use the future tense when speaking or writing letters, emails etc. Newspaper writing and literature writing are a different kettle of fish though.

Nehpets

madnirvana wrote:

hi please anyone

how would you know something is akusative or dative ?

and wats the diffference between

werden, wurden, and würden ??

werden - to become

spongebobgirl

E92 wrote:

I wrote down the translation down underneath my 'high mark answer'. Every sentence I wrote in German is translated to English. If you find German tough, then the best thing is to keep it simple. The first one probably would have done the job in terms of content(perhaps 4 out of 5), but I didnt do anything extraordinary for written expression, even though its grammatically right. Perhaps 16-18 out of 25. Whereas the second one should get 5 our of 5 for content and full(or almost full) marks for written expression. But the examiner has 5 discretionary marks available for content, which they are supposed to give for something perhaps different or special. I would imagine for what I wrote in my second paragraph auf Deutsch that I would get 1 or 2 extra marks. I cant say for sure clearly. I'm only making an educated guess


Übringends, tut es mir leid spongebobgirl. Aber ich hab das bevor nie gehört. Sind es andere Substantive, die nicht regelmäßig sind? Und wenn ja, kannst du mir bitte die Formen geben?(PS ich weiß, wo meine Fehler oben stehen, aber was das State Examinations Commission wollen zu hören, und was die Deutsch eigentlich sagen ist sehr anderes.(Ich nehme an, dass du nicht Deutsche bist oder nicht aus Deutschland kommst....wenn du auf Deutshland kommst oder Deutsche bist, dann hättest du das schon bemerkt))

That's ok! We were told about those three nouns... der Junge, der Herr and der Kollege, the way they take an -n in the akk. on one of the last days of school! About translating English sentences directly to German... bad idea. You might end up saying 'der ist' instead of 'es gibt' or 'es war Spass' instead of 'das macht Spass'.... Try to think in German and use simple, short sentences.!

spongebobgirl

madnirvana wrote:

hi please anyone

how would you know something is akusative or dative ?

and wats the diffference between

werden, wurden, and würden ??

Akkusativ is the case that the SUBJECT of the sentence is in.
For example, take 'ich sehe einen Mann'... 'Ich' is nominative... the doer... and 'Mann' is in the accusative... the sufferer or the subject.

Something is in the dative if it 1) a location or 2) follows a dative preposition... aus/ausser/bei/mit/nach/seit/gegenuber.

For example: Ich gehe in die Stadt... I go to town. 'Ich' is in the accusative, 'Stadt' in the accusative.

Ich bin in der Stadt... I am in town. 'Stadt' is the location so it's in the dative. There's no movement. If there's no movement in the sentence, it takes dative.
The verbs helfen, geben - to give, and folgen - to follow, all take dative. For example you say 'hilf mir!' rather than 'hilf mich!'




Werden - to become
Würden - would.
Wurden - imperfect werden... See below!

E92

Ich werde - I become/I am becoming/ I will become. Also used to form the future tense, but Germans use the present to talk about the future, so you dont need to know the future, just to recognise it in a comprehension.
its also used to describe a change of state eg unsere Klasse wird immer kleiner - Our class keeps getting smaller.

The verb werden is also used in the passive as follows - the appropriate tense of werden (present/conditional/perfect) plus the past participle of the verb in question. When using the perfect, remember that werden ends with 'worden' and not 'geworden'.

Ich wurde-Not necessary as its in the imperfect(use the Perfect)but it means I became/I have become/I did become

Ich würde - I would become or just I would. Its used to form the conditional tense in German for almost all verbs bar a few such as Ich hätte (I would have), Ich wäre(I would be).

Alles Klar?

E92

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Oh I saw the translation allright. I just couldn't understand it without the translation below. At an educated guess, you would get a bit more than 1 or 2 extra marks. Surely an examiner would be struck by a grammatically perfect answer!

Note how I'm trying to keep up my confidence:d

A "B" my arse, I'll be lucky to get the C.

I'm sure you'll do grand. The Letter is only 50 marks anyway.

I'm going to edit it so that you will see what some of the more difficult words were.

E92

spongebobgirl wrote:

Memember that 'Ich werde' means I will and 'Ich will' means I want to!

If you want to say ' I will...' stick with the present tense. Its what the Germans say, so why should we do any different. Its not wrong to use Ich werde to mean I will, but the Germans never do it anymore. So for instance you should say 'Ich versuche alle Fragen, die du geschrieben hast, zu beantworten' in the letter which means 'I will try(Ich versuche and NOT Ich werde...versuchen) to answer all the questions that you asked.'

An Citeog

E92 wrote:

If you want to say ' I will...' stick with the present tense. Its what the Germans say, so why should we do any different. Its not wrong to use Ich werde to mean I will, but the Germans never do it anymore. So for instance you should say 'Ich versuche alle Fragen, die du geschrieben hast, zu beantworten' in the letter which means 'I will try(Ich versuche and NOT Ich werde...versuchen) to answer all the questions that you asked.'

While that is true to a certain extent, the future tense is still in use and as such should not be neglected. 'Morgen fliege ich nach Deutschland' is perfectly acceptable because it's clear from the context that it's happening tomorrow. They're testing your knowledge of the language, which includes the various tenses, rather than what you'd say on the street.

In relation to 'Herrn etc', that's known as the N-Deklination.

The modal verb 'sollen' is actually quite a strange one.
Ich soll, du sollst, er/sie/es soll....
But if you're giving someone advice, a recommendation etc (referred to as eine Empfehlung) it changes slightly. Hence, he should study more is: er sollte mehr lernen.
'lernen means to study, not 'to learn'.
I'd never right 'geil' in an exam either. It'd be the equivalent to writing, 'that's the sh*t' in English. Toll and prima are slightly more exam friendly.

Die Ahnung is used more frequently in negation eg. Ich habe keine Ahnung
whereas die Idee is normally used in the positive eg. Ich habe eine gute Idee
Switch the two and the sentences sound wrong, although you'd probably get away with it.

Ich schicke einen Brief meinem Vater
Nominative refers to the subject of the sentence eg. ich
Accusative for the direct object eg. den Brief
Dative for the indirect object eg. meinem Vater

If anybody has any particular questions, I'll try my best to answer them.

E92

Nehpets wrote:

Ich bin selbsicher uber die Prufung. Ich bin nicht prima aber ich will nur ein "C" mark. Ich benutze "ein" und "eine" aufs Geratewohl! lol Ich mag Deutsch und ich möchte nach Deutschland fahren! Es wird gesagt die Deutschen haben keinen Sinn fur Humor aber ich glaube nicht! Es wird gesagt die Iren liebe die Alkohol. Eigentlich ist dass echt! Es wird gesagt das die Iren haben rote haare! Jetzt ist dass nicht so echt. Viele leute haben rote haare aber viele leute haben braune, blond und schwarz haare! Jeder ist anderes! Ich habe viele irrtum heir lol Please correct if you want something to do!

Ich möchte eine '3' bekommen.[In Germany it goes from 1-6, 1 being an A, 2 being a B etc]Es wird gesagt, dass die Deutsche keinen Sinn für Humor haben, aber ich glaube das nicht. Es wird gesagt, dass die Iren rote Haare haben. Jetzt stimmt das nicht. Leute has a capital L(its a noun), and its blonde and schwarze Haare(Capital h for Haare, its a noun)
Jeder Mensch ist anderes. Ich habe viele Irrtüme hier gemacht. Oddly enough you can say lol in German on sites like boards.ie or MSN and it means exactly the same as it does in English, but obviously dont write that down in the Leaving Cert.

An Citeog

I'd definitely recommend reading some German articles and stuff before going into the exam, just to get yourself in the mode
This is a really good German site for news http://www.deutsche-welle.de/

This online dictionary is really good aswell http://dict.leo.org/

E92

An Citeog wrote:

While that is true to a certain extent, the future tense is still in use and as such should not be neglected. 'Morgen fliege ich nach Deutschland' is perfectly acceptable because it's clear from the context that it's happening tomorrow. They're testing your knowledge of the language, which includes the various tenses, rather than what you'd say on the street.I'd never right 'geil' in an exam either. It'd be the equivalen to writing, 'that's the sh*t' in English. Toll and prima are slightly more exam friendly.

Well I know that they are testing your knowledge of tenses and Grammar, but writing an informal letter is the same as speaking German pretty much. I know that literary German and newspapers are completely different. They still use the Present Subjunctive in Newspapers today ffs! I'm sure they still use the future tense too in newspapers. With the future tense, I was in Germany twice(on a student exchange, in the not-too distant past),and I can safely say that I never once heard the Future tense ever being used, even by old people dont do it. They(old people) might use Sie where its no longer used by everyone else eg sometimes I was called Sie by old people there, but they definately dont use the Future. Of course when they talk about the future if there is ambiguity, then a word like 'Morgen' or 'naechste Woche' is throw in to make sure we know whether its the future or present they mean. The same goes for writing a letter. You can do it in English too. I'm going is the present tense but we can use it to talk about the future...We're going to play Golf tomorrow.

My German teacher marks the exams and she said its perfectly fineto use tyhe present tense when talking about the future, and you dont loose marks for doing it. She said that after all thats whats used by the Germans, so thats what we should be doing. She also said that they're always somewhat behind on the most up to date German when it comes to the exams, so words like das Airport or das Six-pack or es sind which are now proper German words would not get you the marks in the exams.

I'd agree with you on 'geil' - it also means horny so you have to be careful.
Super, cool, toll, klasse are much better.

Drag00n79

There is nothing wrong with using 'es sind' meaning 'there are'. It is the plural of 'es ist' 'there is'. The advantage of using 'es gibt' is that it covers singular and plural, so

Es ist eine neue CD auf dem Tisch.
Es sind neue CDs auf dem Tisch.

Remember the accusative case follows 'es gibt' whereas the nominative follows 'es ist' or 'es sind' (as the nominative always follows 'sein').

An Citeog

E92 wrote:

Well I know that they are testing your knowledge of tenses and Grammar, but writing an informal letter is the same as speaking German pretty much. I know that literary German and newspapers are completely different. They still use the Present Subjunctive in Newspapers today ffs! I'm sure they still use the future tense too in newspapers. With the future tense, I was in Germany twice(on a student exchange, in the not-too distant past),and I can safely say that I never once heard the Future tense ever being used, even by old people dont do it. They(old people) might use Sie where its no longer used by everyone else eg sometimes I was called Sie by old people there, but they definately dont use the Future. Of course when they talk about the future if there is ambiguity, then a word like 'Morgen' or 'naechste Woche' is throw in to make sure we know whether its the future or present they mean. The same goes for writing a letter. You can do it in English too. I'm going is the present tense but we can use it to talk about the future...We're going to play Golf tomorrow.

My German teacher marks the exams and she said its perfectly fineto use tyhe present tense when talking about the future, and you dont loose marks for doing it. She said that after all thats whats used by the Germans, so thats what we should be doing. She also said that they're always somewhat behind on the most up to date German when it comes to the exams, so words like das Airport or das Six-pack or es sind which are now proper German words would not get you the marks in the exams.

I'd agree with you on 'geil' - it also means horny so you have to be careful.
Super, cool, toll, klasse are much better.

I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is that the future tense is still used and quite often at that. I'm actually studying in Germany at the moment and all these little things are used. Whether you're in a lecture hall with 500 people or a class with 5, you'll always be referred to as Sie. If I'm emailing a lecturer, I'll have to start with 'Sehr geehrter (Prof.) Dr. X'. Academic German can be quite different to that which you hear on the street. Präteritum and Perfekt are both used for the past tense, as are 2 forms of the future tense and less so the third (ich werde das gemacht haben).

I actually agree with words like das Airport being marked as wrong. There's already a German word for that (der Flughafen) but some airports decided that it didn't sound international enough and started calling themselves Airport (eg. Köln/Bonn Airport).

I don't like Konjunktiv I but it's also still used and a part of the language. There is of course the easy way of getting around it by either quoting directly or transforming it into a 'dass' clause.

E92

Its not a problem to use it when talking to Germans, but it is a problem using it in Leaving Cert exams. Es sind is not gramatically correct. Use es gibt. Otherwise you'll lose marks. I did it in school, and everytime my teacher wrote over it 'es gibt', naturally I wanted to know why, and I was told that its not acceptable to the SEC cause of the grammar mistake in saying it.
I'd forgotton about using Idee in a positive situation, yes you're right it does sound weird using the word Ahnung in that context, however I've actually never heard of 'Ich habe eine gute Idee' as said by Germans(the SEC are fond of using it though, but then again last year they had the ppeople in the tape speaking in the Future tense even though the Germans never speak in the Future tense), normally they say 'Ich schlage vor,....' or something else. If they use the word idea, they always use Ahnung. Indeed there is a show called 'keine Ahnung?' in Germany. Saying 'I have a good idea' isnt something that seems to be said in German, well thats my experience. In the same way they would say 'I would like to get an A' whereas in English we would say 'I want to get an A'. Really the only time they use the word idea is in response to something they dont know, when you will be almost certainly guaranteed the answer 'keine Ahnung'.

I'm only going on my 3 weeks in Germany last year on exchange, and half a week this year during the mid term.

madnirvana

es gibt.


simple.

das it kein problem, und nicht zu compliziert Ja.

kopfschize:D