BT Billing

cork_ie

Almost a year ago I signed up with BT for line rental and broadband '€35-00 a month.They had a direct debit on my credit card. From the very start they made mistakes in my billing , when I alerted them they billed the full amount again, then over refunded me.
I rang and rang and rang them waited for days for them to return calls etc.
Eventually I thought I had it sorted out and asked to go on the call inclusive package for €45-00 a month. Then billing stopped completely and no online bills displayed. Over the next 7 months I must have rang them 40 times. Got through about half the time and they said they would ring back etc but only did twice but always with a promise. I contacted Comreg a few times who I found worse than useless . Eventually I got a saucy letter from BT demanding €350-00. I spent days on the phone and two weeks later online bills suddenly appear.I discovered that they had never put me on the call inclusive package and they now deny I ever requested it. two months later I have just received a credit card statement they have taken €550 from my credit card account.
Does anyone have a similar experience with BT? Any ideas where I should proceed from here.

Sponge Bob

there is a special thread for BT related cockups

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054952665

marktsang

yep they are a joke, was trying to cancel an account with them - took 6 weeks of ringing nearly every day - everytime is spoke to someone they had no record of any of my previous calls, none of them knew anything at all, ask to speak to someone else and they refuse and hang up.

shower of cowboys if you ask me

jor el

Call your credit card provider and tell them you didn't authorise that charge of €550 and ask them to do a chargeback. Then email complaints@btireland.ie and tell them you are charging back the amount they took from you.

Whatever you owe you will have to pay, but since BT have once again fcuked up the bills they must allow some lenience to you. Was the bill they sent for €350 accurate? If so, do you know where they got the figure of 300 from?

dahamsta

There's really very little you can do, there's no organisation out there that'll take charge and represent you. I'd suggest, in addition to the above, telling them that if they continue down this route you'll report them to the Gardaí for harassment and fraud. I know it seems silly, but given BT's behaviour over the years, I genuinely believe that this is what they're doing. They know damn well that their systems don't work yet they continue this kind of idiocy, which at the very least demonstrates implicit culpability.

Of course there's no point threatening it if you don't follow through on it. This is the route I'll be taking if BT ever contacts me again.
adam

fobs

Found the same problem with BT so moved back to eircom. THey hadn't billed us for 3 months and all of a sudden took amount from our account without giving us any bill. Despite promising to mail the bill,put it on-line etc... never received it. Left BT and still none the wiser as to what I paid for while with them!

Irishdudedave

I had the same problem before with BT, I solved it by logging a complaint against them with the data protection commissioners. They were very interested to hear how BT were not keeping full and detailed records of my account. BT can say you didn't sign up for the bundle thing all they want, just get them to prove to the Data protection commisioner that you signed up for the basic pack(They won't be able to if you didnt!)....I found that a week after reporting it to the data protection commissioner that I had been refunded and suddenly my bills were perfect!...Needless to say I told them what to do with their "service".

Ohh and just another thing...3 months after I cancelled they sent me a modem for broadband. So sorry Mr. P. Murphy but I currently have your modem!, BT don't seem to care about it so neither do I!

semantics

Hi,

I have plain phone service with BT and phone line rental with Eircom.
On the last bills from BT I have detected a "Call Balance Charge"
(my bill of 20 Euro for 2 month + 5 Euro "Call Balance Charge" + VAT = 31 Euro).
I called BT today and BT customer services claims this is due to "not enough spending". Their terms and conditions don't mention a "Talk Balance Charge" or in fact any kind of minimum charge.
I immediatly requested termination of my service with BT.

Did anyone else encounter this "Call Balance Charge"? Can this be legal?

Best,

semantics

dahamsta

Did you read their terms and conditions? Is it mentioned in there?

semantics

Hi,

thanks for the anser - yes, I read the terms and conditions regarding home phone service here:
http://eshots.btireland.ie/customer_updates/terms_conditions_legacy.doc

It does not mention a "Talk Balance Charge" or minimum charge for under-usage.
Also if there would have been a minimum charge when we signed up (about 4 years ago) we would never have signed up for home phone service in the first place.
The behaviour of BT is odd.

Best
semantics

ejmaztec

It's mainly thanks to reading about other peoples' dealings with BT that I refuse to arrange a direct debit with them. Within a couple of weeks of receiving a bill from them, one of their credit controllers rings me up, asking why I haven't paid. They then ask, every time, whether I've thought about a direct debit arrangement. I tell them everytime that I haven't. There is always a long pause at this point.

Multiple thanks to all.:)

Wertz

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's mainly thanks to reading about other peoples' dealings with BT that I refuse to arrange a direct debit with them. Within a couple of weeks of receiving a bill from them, one of their credit controllers rings me up, asking why I haven't paid. They then ask, every time, whether I've thought about a direct debit arrangement. I tell them everytime that I haven't. There is always a long pause at this point.

Multiple thanks to all.:)

lol seriously. I've had BT DSL for over 5 yrs now and from day one had it arranged for them to direct debit my CC bi-monthly, a feat which they never managed to master despite repeated attempts. Since then I just get the paper bill (having signed up for their paperless billing several times), ignore it and wait for the nice people in their norn iron credit control dept to call asking me to settle up, which I do. I thank my stars every day that I never gave them an actual bank account to debit after reading some of the fraudulent crap they've gotten up to with other customer's accounts...

semantics

Still, am I the only one slapped with a call balance change?

Wertz

semantics wrote: »

Still, am I the only one slapped with a call balance change?

We don't use the phone a whole lot in the house, charges for the 2 months would be 25 quid or less, but I've never seen this call balance charge thing on a bill.
In fact there is a vulnerable user scheme for everyone having a landline in this country that BT have to offer by law (AFAIK)....this allows for a package for people living alone or with financial burdens to receive their first 5 euro of calls free (maximum spend is €10 per month), but after that 10 euro spend, call costs rise quite a bit....might be worth looking into...
I'd definitely be digging through the T&Cs of your contract with BT and if there's nothing in there about the charge then get on to comreg perhaps...

jor el

semantics wrote: »

Still, am I the only one slapped with a call balance change?

This seems familiar to me, but I'm struggling to remember the details now. About 8 years ago with eircom, I used to have some sort of calls package that gave some free minutes, or free dial-up, but you needed to have a minimum spend on calls to qualify. Without the minimum spend, they charged you the balance anyway. I'm guessing that your case is similar. Whether or not this is a valid charge is a good question. My suspicion is that there will be no mention of this in the Ts&Cs, fairly common for all of BT's extra charges. Question them again on it, bring it to Comreg if necessary.

Sponge Bob

Thats not the case with BT, there is no minimum number of calls that you 'must' make or it will be taken if you do not reach this minimum .

BT Billing is simply notorious . It was crap as ESAT, crap as ESAT BT and crap as BT Ireland .

While it has improved in recent years (the last 2 or so) it was so bad as to be considered systematic fraud by many (rather than billing) back in them days.

semantics

Meanwhile we had a phone conversation with a person from BT Ireland.
He indeed confirmed that from now on all accounts which do not reach a certain minimum amount will be slapped with the addtional "Call Balance Charge".
We argued that this is not mentioned in our contract and in the terms and conditions, and that we did not agree to any change to the terms and conditions. His answer was that BT acceps our termination and then he hung up on us.

I find it most interesting that quite a reputable company like British Telecom is falling back to these kind of business practices, and effectivey is getting away with it.
Since my contract is terminated I guess there is no reason anymore to go to Comreg - would have been fun (although time consuming) to fight this through, maybe even go to the small claims court. Maybe the small claims court is still an option.
Our assumption is that they simply count on most people not even noticing this "Call Balance Charge".

Anyway, an interesting lesson about business practices and business ethics and how to screw consumers.
The question really is how to make these business practices more widely known to warn consumers about them.
As for our calls, maybe we should rely on VOIP calls even more :-)
BT Ireland does not deserve our money.

Wertz

Don't be surpised if you receive a bill;next moth or the 2 after that...as many have found out here in the past, BT terminating your account does not equate to them not wanting to try and get you to pay for a non-existant service...

board om

semantics wrote: »

Since my contract is terminated I guess there is no reason anymore to go to Comreg - would have been fun (although time consuming) to fight this through, maybe even go to the small claims court. Maybe the small claims court is still an option.
Our assumption is that they simply count on most people not even noticing this "Call Balance Charge".

im sorry, am i missing something here? are you intending to bring BT to the Small Claims Court to retrieve your €5? dont get me wrong, i dont agree with extra charges being added on to customer's bills without them being notified. that end of things i would have a big problem with. i am just confused as to what you would be going to the Small Claims Court for as you are only €5 out of pocket.

semantics

board om wrote: »

im sorry, am i missing something here? are you intending to bring BT to the Small Claims Court to retrieve your €5? dont get me wrong, i dont agree with extra charges being added on to customer's bills without them being notified. that end of things i would have a big problem with. i am just confused as to what you would be going to the Small Claims Court for as you are only €5 out of pocket.

Well, i would ask for punitive damages of 500 Euro to prevent further robbing of consumers. Maybe BT fights it, but it would cost them more money in lawyer time.

I will report on the story to at least have a public record.

dub45

semantics wrote: »

Meanwhile we had a phone conversation with a person from BT Ireland.
He indeed confirmed that from now on all accounts which do not reach a certain minimum amount will be slapped with the addtional "Call Balance Charge".
We argued that this is not mentioned in our contract and in the terms and conditions, and that we did not agree to any change to the terms and conditions. His answer was that BT acceps our termination and then he hung up on us.

Under no circumstances regard your contract as being terminated. Write to them telling them exactly why you wish to terminate and register it. Cancel any dd you have with them by writing to your bank. Believe me you cannot be too careful with BT as you are finding out for yourself. A verbal acceptance of termination is useless.

semantics wrote: »

I find it most interesting that quite a reputable company like British Telecom is falling back to these kind of business practices, and effectivey is getting away with it.
Since my contract is terminated I guess there is no reason anymore to go to Comreg - would have been fun (although time consuming) to fight this through, maybe even go to the small claims court. Maybe the small claims court is still an option.
Our assumption is that they simply count on most people not even noticing this "Call Balance Charge".

I dont know exactly what you are basing your remarks about BT being reputable on. No regular reader of boards over the past few years would ever attribute that 'quality' to them.

semantics wrote: »

Anyway, an interesting lesson about business practices and business ethics and how to screw consumers.
The question really is how to make these business practices more widely known to warn consumers about them.
As for our calls, maybe we should rely on VOIP calls even more :-)
BT Ireland does not deserve our money.

If I was you I would make a complaint to Comreg anyway enclosing a copy of your cancellation letter to BT - Believe me you cannot be too careful with BT.
The debt collectors must be borne in mind:rolleyes:

board om

semantics wrote: »

Well, i would ask for punitive damages of 500 Euro to prevent further robbing of consumers. Maybe BT fights it, but it would cost them more money in lawyer time.

I will report on the story to at least have a public record.

it wouldnt even make it to a court. small claims court isnt meant for wasting companies time so that you cost them money. it is meant for people who have genuine gripes with comapnies and it gives them the oppurtunity to retrieve money they may be owed from the company. in this case you arent owed anything, not even the €5 becuase as you said you didnt pay it. so there is no case. you cant decide that you want €500 just becuase you think you deserve it. sure on that basis why dont you make it an even €1k ? you have as much chance of getting €1k as you do of getting €500.

and secondly it would cost them sweet feck all in lawyer time. BT have a nice sized legal department in their offices and it would take them about 10 minutes to open and shut the case. the only time wasted will be yours.

semantics

board om wrote: »

it wouldnt even make it to a court. small claims court isnt meant for wasting companies time so that you cost them money. it is meant for people who have genuine gripes with comapnies and it gives them the oppurtunity to retrieve money they may be owed from the company. in this case you arent owed anything, not even the €5 becuase as you said you didnt pay it. so there is no case. you cant decide that you want €500 just becuase you think you deserve it. sure on that basis why dont you make it an even €1k ? you have as much chance of getting €1k as you do of getting €500.

and secondly it would cost them sweet feck all in lawyer time. BT have a nice sized legal department in their offices and it would take them about 10 minutes to open and shut the case. the only time wasted will be yours.

Since we have direct debit set up we paid the 5 Euro - in fact even more, since my previous bill also has a call balance charge.
Punitive damages in a small claims court can work. To be honest I don't know about the situation in Ireland, since I looked it up for California (my previous location).
But I would assume that one has to make a case why punitive damages should be applied, and this seems to be classical case, since BT is screwing a (presumingly) large number of consumers with minor charges, where it would be difficult to really hurt them otherwise.
Moving to 1000 Euro is a good idea. In fact, 2000 Euro is the maximum for a small claims court case.
Anyway, trying it can't hurt. And if punitive damages can not be applied yet in Ireland, this is the perfect example and argument why it should be to protect consumers.

MOH

I'm pretty sure the small claims court here will only cover your direct losses, not any punitive damages. Pity though, sounds like BT deserve it.

m8

cork_ie wrote: »

Almost a year ago I signed up with BT for line rental and broadband '€35-00 a month.They had a direct debit on my credit card. From the very start they made mistakes in my billing , when I alerted them they billed the full amount again, then over refunded me.
I rang and rang and rang them waited for days for them to return calls etc.
Eventually I thought I had it sorted out and asked to go on the call inclusive package for €45-00 a month. Then billing stopped completely and no online bills displayed. Over the next 7 months I must have rang them 40 times. Got through about half the time and they said they would ring back etc but only did twice but always with a promise. I contacted Comreg a few times who I found worse than useless . Eventually I got a saucy letter from BT demanding €350-00. I spent days on the phone and two weeks later online bills suddenly appear.I discovered that they had never put me on the call inclusive package and they now deny I ever requested it. two months later I have just received a credit card statement they have taken €550 from my credit card account.
Does anyone have a similar experience with BT? Any ideas where I should proceed from here.

LOL and I thought I was the only one. 2 Years now trying to get my money back. They agree they overcharged me but even after I cancelled my account last September I still got no refund. But even more important is another name and address has appeared on my account and they claim they have sent a cheque with my refund to this address that is about 100 miles from me and no connection whatever. I think we should all get together and lobby the regulator about this company.