Spat at by Merc driver

nodger

Marathon Man wrote:

I spotted that too. They must constantly search boards and the internet for such discussions.

I hope I don't fall into that category! I've only returned to cycling in the last month, so maybe it's a little early for me to be getting involved in such a discussion. However, in the majority of cases I'd usually side with the cyclist... motorists are generally inconsiderate and it's tough getting around safely on a bike these days.

Ghost Rider

There might well be something in that, Daymo.

Personally, I subscribe to the "cinematic" theory of large-car-driving. The theory goes like this: the larger the car, the more insulated, and ultimately separated, the driver feels from the external world. There are a lot of reasons for this: the sound proofing is better on larger cars, the engines are quieter, the stereos seem to fill the space inside the car better. There could be other factors...

Anyway, the result is that large, comfortable cars divide a driver's subjectivity into an "inside" (the driver's body & the inside of the car) and an "outside" (everything and everybody else, including cyclists).

This explains why, when you travel in a large comfortable car, it often feels like you are watching the world pass you by, instead of feeling like you are the one doing the moving. This is what I call the "cinematic experience" of travelling in large cars. It's a very pleasant thing. It may also partially explain the de-realisation of external objects (such as cyclists). And, of course, from de-realisation to disregard is but a short step.

(That's my theory anyway. I have nothing to back it up other than the fact that I've travelled in large cars a lot and have a beard.)

daymobrew wrote:

My (totally unscientific) theory is that people who own these (relatively) expensive cars have progressed quite far up the corporate ladder. The meek generally don't climb so high. This would imply that said owners are more aggressive ( or 'determined' ).
This theory falls down these days with the amount of lending going on the country.

Cabaal

heyjude, nicely put and there's ahell of alot of truth in your post
I've seen it all for myself (including the L plate business)

Stereophonic

If driver's want to respond on this thread, I suggest they get out on a bike, cycle the busy roads for 2 weeks and see what they have to say after the experience.

Some drivers wouldn't dream how strenuous it is to cycle a bike on the Irish roads especially in Dublin.

When I see a tight gap on the left hand side of cars at traffic lights, I'd prefer to wait mainly because the reason of clipping wing mirrors...

If I was driving that Merc, I'd be shocked ....

Civilian_Target

Cycling's not that strenuous... I think its very relaxing. Even at rushhour

nodger

heyjude wrote:

Agreed, the cyclist shouldn't have touched the Mercs' mirror, but the Mercs' driver should have left enough room for the cyclist to get by.

Of course he should leave more room, but that's an ideal world you're talking about. Getting blocked by a car is infuriating, but unfortunately it's a fact of life for the time being. Making the decision to physically move/remove part of an obstruction is not really a good idea, particularly when the obstruction is someone else's property. Nine times out of ten, the driver might be a little irritated but won't take action. The problem is the one person who takes serious offence and goes temporarily insane

heyjude wrote:

As for the suggestion that it is a stereotype to blame bad road behaviour on the drivers of certain cars such as Mercs,BMWs etc., I have to say that there is a great deal of truth in this.

Generally speaking, Mercs and BMWs are significantly more powerful than the average car, so you'll tend to see drivers of these cars overtake other cars more often (whether safely, or not!). I'd say that the quantity of careless drivers is distributed fairly evenly across all makes & models of car.

heyjude wrote:

Motorists that feel it is fine to act aggressively towards cyclists should remember that their kids are cyclists too. I think we need more understanding all round.

Stupid people act aggressively towards cyclists... most people are quite cautious when they see someone on a bike in front of them. Who in their right mind would willingly risk injuring/killing a person just so that they could race to the next set of traffic lights?

Maybe all motorists should be forced to cycle at least once a month in order to see what it's like

Beelzebub

dinneenp wrote:

I cycle and drive and notice that when you haven’t cycled for a short while how quickly you forget about cyclists. For people who just drive- they probably don’t even consider cyclists when driving, turning, stoping at lights etc.

I get very annoyed and angry when cycling and someone has blocked the inside left when they don’t need to be so close to the curb. Most drivers do it without even thinking.

In my experience the majority of drivers don't consider pedestrians at all.
Cyclists have very little regard for us either, but that's not usually life threatening.

Stereophonic

Civilian_Target wrote:

Cycling's not that strenuous... I think its very relaxing. Even at rushhour

Yeh it can be relaxing but try and cycle on the roundabouts (3 on them in a matter of minutes) at rush hour.....

MicraBoy

As a cyclist I think you just have to grin and bear it when motorists are too close to the kerb. This doesn't apply when a cycle lane exists of course. Then I think there it is ok to get a bit irate. Never touch another mans vehicle though, thats like honking his wifes tits.

DeepBlue

Reading some of the replies in this thread one could think that many respondents think that the motorist was justified in his reaction and one could mistakenly think that the OP had ripped off the driver's mirror while simultaneously keying the side of his car :eek: .

Quite obviously the car driver is a loon and his actions were grossly out of proportion to what the OP did.

Marathon Man

A few years ago I was cycling behind another cyclist who had the right of way on a main road when suddenly a car pulled out of a side road nearly hitting him. The driver (who was in the wrong) then proceeded to shout a tirade of abuse at the guy in front of me before driving off. However, it was rush hour traffic so the cyclist in front of me caught up with the angry driver at the next set of lights and as he went by the idiot driver on the inside the cyclist proceeded to kick the cars wing mirror which broke off and fell to the ground. As the traffic was bumper to bumper the driver had no hope of catching the cyclist. As he couldn't get the other cyclist the driver roared more abuse at me as if it was me who did it.
Now thats much more extreme than simply moving a mirror to get past on the inside.

Mr Magnolia

The OP's first sentance set the tone for this thread, I don't think I have ever seen so many unfounded generalizations.

What people need to compare is the number of cars that pass you on a given day and don't block your route/cut you off/pull out in front of you, compare that to those who do.

Traumadoc

Stereophonic wrote:

If driver's want to respond on this thread, I suggest they get out on a bike, cycle the busy roads for 2 weeks and see what they have to say after the experience.

Some drivers wouldn't dream how strenuous it is to cycle a bike on the Irish roads especially in Dublin.

When I see a tight gap on the left hand side of cars at traffic lights, I'd prefer to wait mainly because the reason of clipping wing mirrors...

If I was driving that Merc, I'd be shocked ....

I am a cyclist and I own a merc ML, if someone overtook me on the inside and pushed my mirror out of the way (cyclist or a car) i would not be pleased. I would probably beep the horn.

John_C

Traumadoc wrote:

I am a cyclist and I own a merc ML, if someone overtook me on the inside and pushed my mirror out of the way (cyclist or a car) i would not be pleased. I would probably beep the horn.

I'm also a cyclist and I occasionally drive a relative's merc (my car is a fiesta) and I pretty much agree, though I probably wouldn't bother beeping the horn. I would be equally annoyed if I was cycling along and a big car overtook me and then pulled into the left to block me.

Daily life is full of minor irritants, I think that it's best to not get worked up about them.

Civilian_Target

Stereophonic wrote:

Yeh it can be relaxing but try and cycle on the roundabouts (3 on them in a matter of minutes) at rush hour.....

I do. I have to go though Hammersmith Central Gyratory and the A4 Chiswick Roundabout every day to get where I'm going, but it's fine if you're assertive about what you're doing...

Traumadoc

John_C wrote:

I'm also a cyclist and I occasionally drive a relatives merc (my car is a fiesta) and I pretty much agree, though I probably wouldn't bother beeping the horn. I would be equally annoyed if I was cycling along and a big car overtook me and then pulled into the left to block me.

Daily life is full of minor irritants, I think that it's best to not get worked up about them.

true

RainyDay

MicraBoy wrote:

As a cyclist I think you just have to grin and bear it when motorists are too close to the kerb.

Why just grin & bear it? Why not highlight the driver's lack of consideration (in a polite and civilised way)?

dinneenp wrote:

People have to be considerate and the driver should leave space.

I sometimes stop if someone has blocked the left side and make a gesture at them (hands in air etc.) or if their window is open ask them why they are blocking.
Like with a stranger- touching is a no-no without permission.....

I think it is really important to make sure the driver gets the message of their lack of consideration. I cycle up Dundrum Road each evening, and most evenings, I'll encounter 1 or 2 drivers hugging the kerb for no good reason. Most of the time, I'll pull up at the driver's window, signal for them to open their window if it is not already open, and ask them is their some particular reason why they are blocking the route for cyclists. The responses vary from aggression ("I'll wrap that f***ing bike round your neck") to confusion to apologetic to good-humoured. I've had a few alpha-males that seem to think if they keep shouting loudly, then they won't have to hear anything that might upset them.

I haven't noted any particular trend relating to car size/make - Dumb drivers come in cars of all shapes and sizes.

I do think the OP was out of order in handling the mirror, as the Merc driver was out of order in his response. Funnily enough, I don't have a huge problem with cars hugging the kerb when stopped at lights in cases where this enables 2 lanes of traffic. It is easy enough to pull round the outside - you just have to be carefull the lights don't switch back to green as you pull round in front of the cars.

ballooba

I had a cyclist make a face at me last week for changing lanes at the front of the queue for the lights. Fair enough, I ended up in the bicycle box as a result of a mistake. He then proceeded to break the red light. :eek: Standards.

NewDubliner

RainyDay wrote:

Funnily enough, I don't have a huge problem with cars hugging the kerb when stopped at lights in cases where this enables 2 lanes of traffic. I

I disagree, I think that cars should only drive 2 abreast where two lanes are marked. Only bicycles are allowed drive two abreast in a single lane.

Wishbone Ash

ballooba wrote:

I had a cyclist make a face at me last week

I regularly drive large and heavy vehicles. I occasionally get gestures from cyclists (e.g. hands raised) when they cannot proceed up the nearside but it's usually a lack of understanding on their part. I am always aware of and courteous to other road users but what do they expect me to do? My vehicle may be 2.5 metres wide and the lane may only be 2.6 metres. Do they expect me to encroach into the opposite lane just to allow them to pass?

And on a similar vein, why do cyclists insist on travelling up the nearside of a waiting truck/bus which intends to turn left and has clearly indicated that intention?

It could be argued that the cyclist has an unfair advantage over the motorist as all motor vehicles are required to display registration plates and therefore may be reported/identified by other motorists/Gardaí/traffic cameras. Perhaps it's time to introduce registrations for bicycles!

Stereophonic wrote:

If driver's want to respond on this thread, I suggest they get out on a bike, cycle the busy roads for 2 weeks and see what they have to say after the experience.

....and may I suggest that cyclists try driving a bus or truck through Dublin for 2 weeks and see what they have to say after their experience!

dodgyme

RainyDay wrote:

Why just grin & bear it? .......... I'll pull up at the driver's window, signal for them to open their window if it is not already open, and ask them is their some particular reason why they are blocking the route for cyclists. .

Sounds like you go out on the bike looking for agro. Am I the first person to say this to you?

Wishbone Ash

No reply from tampopo (the OP) yet despite over 82 responses to his/her thread!

Civilian_Target

Wishbone Ash wrote:

And on a similar vein, why do cyclists insist on travelling up the nearside of a waiting truck/bus which intends to turn left and has clearly indicated that intention?

They don't know any better and think that since the cycle lane goes on the left across the junction they should cycle there and that they have priority. Its really a case of bad cycleway design rather than anything else, but I've seen people die that way. I'm glad to hear that you're on the lookout, many HGV, bus and van drivers aren't!

Jumpy

RainyDay wrote:

Why just grin & bear it? Why not highlight the driver's lack of consideration (in a polite and civilised way)?


I think it is really important to make sure the driver gets the message of their lack of consideration. I cycle up Dundrum Road each evening, and most evenings, I'll encounter 1 or 2 drivers hugging the kerb for no good reason. Most of the time, I'll pull up at the driver's window, signal for them to open their window if it is not already open, and ask them is their some particular reason why they are blocking the route for cyclists. The responses vary from aggression ("I'll wrap that f***ing bike round your neck") to confusion to apologetic to good-humoured. I've had a few alpha-males that seem to think if they keep shouting loudly, then they won't have to hear anything that might upset them.

I haven't noted any particular trend relating to car size/make - Dumb drivers come in cars of all shapes and sizes.

I do think the OP was out of order in handling the mirror, as the Merc driver was out of order in his response. Funnily enough, I don't have a huge problem with cars hugging the kerb when stopped at lights in cases where this enables 2 lanes of traffic. It is easy enough to pull round the outside - you just have to be carefull the lights don't switch back to green as you pull round in front of the cars.

You have a death wish. One day it wont simply be a shouty "alpha male" You will get some dick who thinks giving you a nudge while moving would teach you a lesson.
Either that or a load of scumbags that would tear you apart.

BeardyGit

Jumpy wrote:

You have a death wish. One day it wont simply be a shouty "alpha male" You will get some dick who thinks giving you a nudge while moving would teach you a lesson.
Either that or a load of scumbags that would tear you apart.

Well said. I followed after some dick in Stillorgan SC carpark who thought it was okay to thump the roof of my car and then kick my wing mirror because I hadn't left enough room for him to pass me by.... He kept it up, giving me the finger and the big mouth, while stopped in front of my car, banging on the bonnet and refusing to get out of my way.

A 6 x D Cell maglight was quickly produced from under my seat, and while I was jumping out of the car he saw the light (har har) and took off at speed to make his escape down Newtown park avenue.....I'm not telling a work of a lie, but if I'd have caught him I'd have served time for what I'd have done.

Now lads, I'm a cyclist, as many of you will know. But I'm a car owner too, and if those of you who only travel by two wheels only learn one thing this year, it's that you should NEVER mess with someones car. It's one of few things that will push me to the point of having bleeding red eye rage at the offender.....And I'm not alone. Mess with my car and it's entirely likely I'll get myself in trouble.

Oh, and the spitting thing? You deserved to have your legs taco'd, let alone your wheels, for doing that. Spitting is for pure filth.....

Ghost Rider

I don't think anyone doubts the potential for insanity among drivers. What worries me is that it's seen as legitimate for people to act as if an offence against their car is an offence against their body.

Gil_Dub wrote:

Well said. I followed after some dick in Stillorgan SC carpark who thought it was okay to thump the roof of my car and then kick my wing mirror because I hadn't left enough room for him to pass me by.... He kept it up, giving me the finger and the big mouth, while stopped in front of my car, banging on the bonnet and refusing to get out of my way.

A 6 x D Cell maglight was quickly produced from under my seat, and while I was jumping out of the car he saw the light (har har) and took off at speed to make his escape down Newtown park avenue.....I'm not telling a work of a lie, but if I'd have caught him I'd have served time for what I'd have done.

Now lads, I'm a cyclist, as many of you will know. But I'm a car owner too, and if those of you who only travel by two wheels only learn one thing this year, it's that you should NEVER mess with someones car. It's one of few things that will push me to the point of having bleeding red eye rage at the offender.....And I'm not alone. Mess with my car and it's entirely likely I'll get myself in trouble.

Oh, and the spitting thing? You deserved to have your legs taco'd, let alone your wheels, for doing that. Spitting is for pure filth.....

vector

Ghost Rider wrote:

I don't think anyone doubts the potential for insanity among drivers. What worries me is that it's seen as legitimate for people to act as if an offence against their car is an offence against their body.

while its not an offence to the body it is pretty close, the notion of protectiong your private property (house, car, field) is very important, if you (plural) ever have your car windows broken or tyres slashed you'll realise that no magic wand exists to fix your property, you must do it yourself, so you will defend it

MicraBoy

Why just grin & bear it? Why not highlight the driver's lack of consideration (in a polite and civilised way)?

Well wasting my breath on inconsiderate people is not the way I want to spend my commute home. I save it for people who actually do something stupid or dangerous. Like being close to the kerb in a cycling lane whilst talking on a mobile phone.

A prime example of this (and a pet hate of mine) is Constitution Hill. The cycle lane there is a joke. It takes up half the lane. Common sense tells me that cyclists and drivers have to share this space. However continually drivers will block the cycle lane leaving plenty of space to their right (it's two lanes). That is inconsiderate and dangerous. The added hilarity is that the there is a footpath and grass verge that could have been used to take the cycle lane off road for the worst section.

Mr Magnolia

Ghost Rider wrote:

What worries me is that it's seen as legitimate for people to act as if an offence against their car is an offence against their body.

If you treat peoples property with the dis-respect that the OP did you're going to get a reaction, surely this doesn't come as a shock to you...

Ghost Rider

Despite property being "nine tenths of the law" etc. etc., the distinction between property and person is essential. If we don't maintain it, we risk turning into gun-toting libertarians (and, yes, I do realise that not everybody in this country sees that as a bad thing...)

Anyway, when it comes to how people feel about their property, cars are still a special case. It must be something to do with the isolation of the driver, that removal from the world outside. It seems to stir up some seriously symbolic, primeval sh*t.

vector wrote:

while its not an offence to the body it is pretty close, the notion of protectiong your private property (house, car, field) is very important, if you (plural) ever have your car windows broken or tyres slashed you'll realise that no magic wand exists to fix your property, you must do it yourself, so you will defend it