**** The Fitz!

kpnuts · 14-06-2007 10:51pm #1

Ladbrokes Millions satellite tonight.

Been looking forward to it for a couple of weeks. Raining cats and dogs outside at 8pm, if it's any other €400 tournament I maybe cry off as I'm going to have to get soaked legging it around the corner to the main street to hail a cab. But it's the Ladbrokes Millions satellite, worth getting wet for to have a shot at that...

I ring the Fitz to confirm the satellite is going ahead, make sure I'm not too late (slated for 8pm start, which obviously means 9pm in the Fitz usually) and I put my name down on the list over the phone with Denise.

So I get briefly soaked, but hail a cab fairly fast. Lovely. Held up slightly by a cavalcade of cops escorting Bertie Bassett out to Aras An Uachtarain to get Mary's seal of presidential approval for his new All Sorts coalition. No problem, I arrive in the Fitz at 8.50pm.

So I go to register with dealer Mick (the older fella from Derry, not MickL) who is at the poker desk, he points me in the direction of the clipboard-bearing Denise. I get out my 400 yoyo, she says, "It's going to be just a freezeout now, OK?" I'm like, "It was always a freezeout, no?" Casual as you like, she's, "Yeah, but just for some cash now, not enough players for the package."

No apology, no announcement, no forewarning that there was a minimum number of players required before they'd give out the package. All the promotional literature in the Fitz, still on the noticeboard in there, says quite clearly, "A Ladbrokes Millions package will be given out on Thursday 14th June blah" (I didn't jot down the exact wording, but myself and other players searched the literature thoroughly and not a hint of any notice of minimum number of players required).

There had been overlays in most if not all of the weekly WSOP satellites in the Fitz, so everyone quite reasonably assumed there would be a package tonight regardless of numbers.

I spoke with Paul Lecky who, along with a handful of other Northerners, had made a hazardous three-hour car journey in horrendous weather conditions to get there in time for the satellite. Paul said he won't be back to the Fitz.

Other Dublin-based players had finished work early to get home and freshen up for a tourney that they, like me, had been looking forward to for a couple of weeks. They, like me, are not happy.

I've played mostly online for the last 3 years, but I've always felt an attachment to the Fitz. In the last couple of months, I haven't been playing online so much, I've been playing in the Fitz around 4 nights per week. And almost always enjoying it, win, draw or lose.

My heart sank when I read news of Luke's departure on these very boards upon my return from Cork last week. I'd been in there a couple of times since and it just didn't feel the same. I find it difficult to imagine tonight's fiasco occurring under his stewardship. Not that I'm blaming Denise in the slightest, by the way. I'm sure the order to pull the package came from higher powers, but if Luke was still in situ, I am certain there would have been

(a) many more players showing up for the satellite
(b) some form of apology and/or modest overlay, instead of just running a 2-table €400 freezeout for cash. It certainly would have been handled better.

I don't think I'll be playing in the Fitz again. Not the way I feel about the place right now anyway.

sickpuppy · 14-06-2007 11:58pm

Bad form all right 2table freezeout for cash what bs.A guarantee is aguarantee so if there is an overlay the game should still have gone on.The northern players who came down i remember Paul Lecky beinga regular at 250 end of months etc will they come down again after this mess?i doubt it.Word of moth is huge in poker and making cost cutting things like not guaranteeing an advertised game is one way of dwindling ones business especially as theres loads of competition.Most annoyed of the lot will be the regular omaha players as ken really is the biggest value in town and his absence will make ahuge dent in there pockets i imagine

Ace2007 · 15-06-2007 1:41am

did u play?

ditpoker · 15-06-2007 2:04am

BBL! BBL!!! (bring back luke!)

Cuban Son · 15-06-2007 2:34am

sickpuppy wrote:

Bad form all right 2table freezeout for cash what bs.A guarantee is aguarantee so if there is an overlay the game should still have gone on.The northern players who came down i remember Paul Lecky beinga regular at 250 end of months etc will they come down again after this mess?i doubt it.Word of moth is huge in poker and making cost cutting things like not guaranteeing an advertised game is one way of dwindling ones business especially as theres loads of competition.Most annoyed of the lot will be the regular omaha players as ken really is the biggest value in town and his absence will make ahuge dent in there pockets i imagine

First off sick puppy, there was no guarantee of the package. If there had been 48 runners the package would have been given away. Its not unusual that there wasn't enough numbers.
I wouldn't think that recent events there was the reason for the poor show. The high entry fee is not within most regs budget. Would you pay €400 for entry into a satellite with 50 runners and only one prize?

The first WSOP satellite only got 42 runners but the ticket was given even though the club took less than needed.

I understand how you feel KP, it is a disappointment not to have the ticket up for grabs, but there must have been near €20,000 in the prize pool for a two table tournament which isn't too bad?

Ace2007 · 15-06-2007 2:43am

you gotta be havin a laugh cuban
how on earth would there be 20K prize pool wih 2 tables at 400 a head - 20 players = 7500 , 25 reg

sickpuppy · 15-06-2007 2:46am

If there was near 20000 in the prize pool surely laddies or the fitz could make up for the small overlay as a nice gesture. Its along way from crumlin to the fitz and longer from ulster so these players shouldhave have had notcie said tournament would not go ahead if numbers were insufficent, i presumed there was aguarantee of a ticket when kp said on the notice board on 14th of june 1 ticket for wsop and Lukes firing resinging whatever i guarantee has had an influence on numbers in tournaments,and whether or not id pay 400 euros for apackage to vegas is irrelevant.

kpnuts · 15-06-2007 2:50am

The first WSOP satellite only got 42 runners but the ticket was given even though the club took less than needed.

Exactly why the other players and I who showed up tonight expected that the Fitz would honour their advertisements to pay out a Ladbrokes Millions package tonight. Nowhere in their advertisements did they point out that it was subject to any particular minimum number of players.

I understand how you feel KP, it is a disappointment not to have the ticket up for grabs, but there must have been near €20,000 in the prize pool for a two table tournament which isn't too bad?

When I arrived and Denise told me it was a cash freezeout, I asked her how many players were on the list for the tournament, she said 21. I don't know how you get €20,000 from that at €400 per head? More like €8,000 by my calculations, and that's assuming everyone who showed up was happy to play a cash tournament. I wasn't in the slightest bit interested in that, and nor were some of the others.

Cuban Son · 15-06-2007 3:00am

Yeah, sorry Ken, I was told there was around €18,000 in the prize pool, my mistake.

Its not up to the Fitz to hounor any package. If they don't get enough runners for the event why would you expect them to pay the differece?
It has been advertised for weeks and I constantly reminded players when I'm dealing but you can't really blame the fitz for lack of interest.

Most people just wouldn't have that buy-in or interest for a one off event.

Ace2007 · 15-06-2007 3:03am

tbh advertising was poor, for example - there were no threads on here at all
therefore if ur not in the fitz offen u won't know about it

kpnuts · 15-06-2007 4:02am

Cuban Son wrote:

Its not up to the Fitz to hounor any package. If they don't get enough runners for the event why would you expect them to pay the differece?

Because, Paul, they did exactly that for some of the WSOP satellites held in the Fitz 5 of the last 6 Thursday nights! Anyway, I take your point that it was not overtly, blatantly advertised as GUARANTEED package, but if there is a minimum number of players required, then that should be advertised clearly.

And when it is aborted/package pulled or whatever, the least that whoever is in charge could do is be even slightly apologetic, gather the players together for some kind of announcement, open up a debate of some kind to see what the players would like to do instead, etc etc.

It wasn't just the pullling of the package that annoyed me, it was also the way the situation was handled.

Anyway, it's no big deal, I've vented my spleen. Apologies to the moderators if this should have been in the BB sticky!

kpnuts · 15-06-2007 4:04am

Ace2007 wrote:

tbh advertising was poor, for example - there were no threads on here at all
therefore if ur not in the fitz offen u won't know about it

Agreed, but too late now!

Lafortezza · 15-06-2007 5:27am

I dunno, you say that they have paid the difference for WSOP satellites 5 out of the last 6 nights, and then one tournament they decide not to?
Not sure how many organisers would keep adding money to make up the prize pool when there's not enough runners for a full ticket 6 tournaments on the trot.

They probably should have canvassed players for the best solution, but I don't think they should apologise when not enough punters come through the door on a night with crappy weather.

Cuban Son · 15-06-2007 5:51am

Ace2007 wrote:

tbh advertising was poor, for example - there were no threads on here at all
therefore if ur not in the fitz offen u won't know about it

I don't think the Fitz has ever advertised any tournaments here. And as sick Puppy said poker relies a lot on word of mouth.
To say it was badly advertised, well if giving out flyers at every tournament for the last 5 weeks and making nightly announcements is bad, well maybe so.

Ken the only time there was an overlay was in the first WSOP satellite. Luke decided to give the package as it was the first one and believed they would gain more interest as the weeks went on, which did happen. He also stated after that this wouldn't happen again and no ticket would be guaranteed without a minimum of 48+ runners.

I understand you are annoyed with the way it was handled at the time, but lets be honest, Denise is not Luke, and no disrespect to her as I know how hard she works there and it hasn't been an easy few weeks for her either.
I think too many people are looking for excuses to have a go at the fitz recently with very little to back it up with.

5pin5 · 15-06-2007 10:48am

i rang the fitz last night about the sattilite and denise told me it would just be a freezout not the ladbrooks so i stayed away

Frinky · 15-06-2007 1:14pm

Sorry I was just readings this and got so annoyed I had to reply!

Firstly I can't believe Luke is gone, what an outrage! I think that is a big enough reason anyway to be annoyed at the Fitz........:p

Kp it sux that there wasn't a guaranteed ticket but if you think about it from their point of view, if it is a once of event unlike the WSOP satellites they aren't going to gain from giving a ticket as there are no future satellites tourneys for Ladbrokes, no?

And what I heard they are losing a lot of costumers!? Haven't been there in a while now but I will probably stroll in Friday or Saturday night

Even though people didn't turn up Denise should apologise on behalf of the Fitz, I know it wasn't her fault but it is the responsibility of the Fitz as they said they were going to have a tourney and they didn't have it......who are you meant to blame? The punters that didn't turn up.....eh no.

And to just say that "we are going to have a cash tourney", what the......why didn't they see did the people that turned up want to play something else, like a less buy-in. Was the Fitz was just interested in there reg fee???

carfax · 15-06-2007 2:04pm

I completely forgot about this tournament last night and would have been very annoyed if I was in your shoes KP......The thing is I never saw a poster in the Fitz advertising it and from the announcements I heard Luke make over the last few weeks I for one certainly thought it was a guaranteed ticket......

Ace2007 · 15-06-2007 2:23pm

I'd say there is a fair chance that if luke was there and there were 20 ppl that turned up then the ticket STILL WOULDN'T have been given out,

its like - denise is not luke therefore we give out and don't turn up???

Also, the EOM is always advertised on here for cuban son

5starpool · 15-06-2007 2:24pm

I think the main problem here is that it was not stated on the poster that a seat was not being guaranteed, but it was never mentioned that it was either. In fairness to the Fitz, the WSOP sats this year were the only sats I remember in there where there were seats guaranteed. Even in the IO sats a few months ago there were sats where no ticket was generated, and only if the person wanted to put the rest of the money towards the ticket, was one given out, and that was when Luke was there. It could probably have been handled in a somewhat clearer manner though on the night, but I wasn't there so this is just judging in the posts here.