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Failed again in Dundalk, just 4 weeks since my last test, perhaps too soon.
Yet again the test was on a completely different route than my instructor did with me, I used the instructors car and turned out he had a break light gone, the tester complained about the dirt of the windscreen, and cleaned up his seat before he sat down (not that there was anything on it) very formal, very business and slightly school teachery
Got 11 blues, [I only got 2 last time (and two pinks)] and no pinks, so had more marks against me this time.
I observated like a mad man but still got a mark against me, got a blue for compentancy on turn around even though I didn't hit the curb and did it in 3 moves,
Most marks for position turning right and react to hazards ( can't remember any hazards but i guess thats the point )
Just before we finished I seen the tester count the blue marks and the quickly added a few more to fail me. Ah well,
It's as much about Luck as skill in my opinion
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Tommie Kelly wrote: »Failed again in Dundalk, just 4 weeks since my last test, perhaps too soon.
Yet again the test was on a completely different route than my instructor did with me, I used the instructors car and turned out he had a break light gone, the tester complained about the dirt of the windscreen, and cleaned up his seat before he sat down (not that there was anything on it) very formal, very business and slightly school teachery
That wasn't a great start. Your instructor should at least have had the car clean for your test. It's not as though it's rained recently
Got 11 blues, [I only got 2 last time (and two pinks)] and no pinks, so had more marks against me this time.
I observated like a mad man but still got a mark against me, got a blue for compentancy on turn around even though I didn't hit the curb and did it in 3 moves,Examples of ‘Turnabout’ faults include:
(a) Where an applicant hits or bumps a kerb, or makes inadequate progress, or uses excessive speed, or
does not make proper use of the controls, a fault may be recorded opposite ‘Competently’.
Most marks for position turning right and react to hazards ( can't remember any hazards but i guess thats the point )
Position turning right (from a straight to a side road) or emerging right (from a stop/yield)? Describe as best you can how you do it?
Just before we finished I seen the tester count the blue marks and the quickly added a few more to fail me. Ah well,
You'll find the tester keeps marks in his head until he can mark them on the sheet. If he's marking whilst you are driving he can miss something. Often they'll apply your marks if you are waiting in traffic to turn or are sat at lights
It's as much about Luck as skill in my opinion
Luck on the day can come into it however you have to be as best prepared as you possibly can be. How did you get on in your pre-test with your instructor?0 -
Turnarounds:
So basically on a turn around they'll mark you for going slow or going fast? That's stupid. I did it in good time, neither fast nor slow with full observation. Only thing I can think of is that my indicator switched off, but my instructor said not to worry about that if and when it happens.
With Right Turns...
If it's a stop, look in your mirrors, indicate, change gears, slow down and stop before the stop line on the extreme right of your lane/right hand lane and creep and peak if you can't see the road clearly, move off if it is safe, looking first at your mirrors and then to your left, right and straight ahead several times making sure that you move your head so that the tester actuall sees that you are looking.
OR
Move off as quick as you can even if you are unsure as they mark you for being slow. Thats how it seems to me or as my instructor describes it. I did take my time at one junction and I got marked for sitting there. I have real problems with this part of the test as I think it encourages unsafe driving and risk taking. I tend to stay safe but my instructor is always giving out that I don't move off quick enough ,the proof is in the test. I got marked when I sat there until I thought it was safe and I got marked when i didn't.
If its a yeld...
then the same only you don't have to come to an actualy stop and in theory if you do stop because you are unsure you'll be marked for lack of progress.
You'll find the tester keeps marks in his head until he can mark them on the sheet. If he's marking whilst you are driving he can miss something. Often they'll apply your marks if you are waiting in traffic to turn or are sat at lights
Nah, flat out, don't agree. He wanted to fail me and he did. Don't believe that he just forgot, he counted up and then added three marks.He marked everything else as he went along.I still think it's as much about luck as skill and I think the test is badly designed, encourages unsafe driving, and puts pressure on you to do everything as fast as possible.Any wonder there are so many accidents on the roads.
If the rule is "do if it is safe to do so" then why give you a mark when you wait til you feel it's safe? It's stupid.
And the fact that they don't have to explain exactly why you failed is just unbelievable. No one has any come back, they can say what they want and you can do nothing about it.No other test is like this.
In my pretest my instructor reckoned I would come back with one or two blue marks at the very most. He said there is nothing wrong with my driving and once I didn't get nervous (which i obvioulsy did, but not anyway way badly, I was resonably calm) I would fly through it.
But listen, I'm not bitter or upset or anything. I failed, big deal, it all a game, it's not the end of the world or anything
Anyway rant over
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Tommie Kelly wrote: »Turnarounds:
So basically on a turn around they'll mark you for going slow or going fast? That's stupid. I did it in good time, neither fast nor slow with full observation. Only thing I can think of is that my indicator switched off, but my instructor said not to worry about that if and when it happens.
With Right Turns...
If it's a stop, look in your mirrors, indicate, change gears, slow down and stop before the stop line on the extreme right of your lane/right hand lane and creep and peak if you can't see the road clearly, move off if it is safe, looking first at your mirrors and then to your left, right and straight ahead several times making sure that you move your head so that the tester actuall sees that you are looking.
OR
Move off as quick as you can even if you are unsure as they mark you for being slow. Thats how it seems to me or as my instructor describes it. I did take my time at one junction and I got marked for sitting there. I have real problems with this part of the test as I think it encourages unsafe driving and risk taking. I tend to stay safe but my instructor is always giving out that I don't move off quick enough ,the proof is in the test. I got marked when I sat there until I thought it was safe and I got marked when i didn't.
If its a yeld...
then the same only you don't have to come to an actualy stop and in theory if you do stop because you are unsure you'll be marked for lack of progress.
You'll find the tester keeps marks in his head until he can mark them on the sheet. If he's marking whilst you are driving he can miss something. Often they'll apply your marks if you are waiting in traffic to turn or are sat at lights
Nah, flat out, don't agree. He wanted to fail me and he did. Don't believe that he just forgot, he counted up and then added three marks.He marked everything else as he went along.I still think it's as much about luck as skill and I think the test is badly designed, encourages unsafe driving, and puts pressure on you to do everything as fast as possible.Any wonder there are so many accidents on the roads.
If the rule is "do if it is safe to do so" then why give you a mark when you wait til you feel it's safe? It's stupid.
And the fact that they don't have to explain exactly why you failed is just unbelievable. No one has any come back, they can say what they want and you can do nothing about it.No other test is like this.
In my pretest my instructor reckoned I would come back with one or two blue marks at the very most. He said there is nothing wrong with my driving and once I didn't get nervous (which i obvioulsy did, but not anyway way badly, I was resonably calm) I would fly through it.
But listen, I'm not bitter or upset or anything. I failed, big deal, it all a game, it's not the end of the world or anything
Anyway rant over
You could be marked for steering too, not being in control of the wheel, crossing you hands etc. I'd disagree that going too slowly or too fast is stupid. If a pupil at test standard does either it's not demonstrating competence. The point of the turnabout is to show your ability to manoeuvre a car in a tight space using quick steering and clutch control. If you feel it wasn't too slow or too fast it might point to an issue with your steering. Your indicator was not an issue.
With your turn, it's a position error you been marked for. You seen to have the procedure there or thereabouts. I'd pick up on, "making sure that you move your head so that the tester actuall sees that you are looking." If you don't actually look, how do you know what's coming?
"Move off as quick as you can even if you are unsure as they mark you for being slow." No. Absolutely not! If you are unsure you stay put. What you have described suggests that you are having a problem judging distances of approaching traffic combined with their speed. Getting the hang of that is key to turning right or emerging left or right. Your instructor has mentioned it to you and the tester has marked you. When do you normally do your lessons? Is it dark?
As far as the tester marking goes. I never suggested he forgot. The do mark things when the car is stopped. The also mark when the car is moving as they know they sheet inside out. He may have noticed you do/not do something and was watching to give you a chance. Then marked you because you didn't correct it.
They don't explain things to prevent animosity building or an argument occurring. You have to remember that these people are highly qualified and know their jobs very well.
When you sat exams at school you were only given a mark. The results of the test weren't explained to you.
Best of luck with your re-sit0 -
Well, with regard to the standard of driving testers. My friend's sister did her test last year and the tester fell asleep during the exam He then failed her. Very professional eh?
""Move off as quick as you can even if you are unsure as they mark you for being slow." No. Absolutely not! If you are unsure you stay put."
Sorry but I feel you are absolutely wrong here. If you feel it is unsafe to move off but your tester doesn't agree you get marked. Plain and simple.
All my lessons have been during the day. Would it be harder to judge at night or easier? I tend to be play safer when I turn right and wait until I know I'm safe, but obvioulsy I should be doing it faster and will have to just go even if I don't think i can make it. That's the problem, you get marked for not moving off. My instructor gives out for me being, as he sees it too cautious. How can it encourage safe driving when you can be marked for being too cautious? Seriously? I don't understand. What am I missing here?
You see my problem is, that if I move off too early I could hit and kill someone. If i stay and make sure I am safe the worst that can happen is that the guy behind me has to wait an extra 20 seconds. SO how is that encouraging safe driving by marking me being slow at a right turn. How is pressureizing someone into getting out as quick as possible safer than letting them wait til they feel safe? Really?
My point about making sure that the Tester sees your head moving is told to me by EVERYONE who has ever done a test. It's always the FIRST thing people say about driving test, including my instructor. So it has to be somewhat important no? You can look all you want but if the TESTER can't see you do it then you are marked. Moving your eyes is not enough for them to notice it seems.
With regard to marks at school you are entitled to get them rechecked (which I did for leaving cert Art and went from a c3 to an A1) In college you get a chance to sit with your lecturer and discuss your exams/papers (well at least i did when I went)
But you have no comeback from the driving test at all. What the tester says goes, even if you do appeal at the very best you get a free re-sit. It's not the same thing at all.
Thanks for the luck with the re-sit, I don't think I'll bother for a while to be honest. Don't see the point really, I have spent way too much money on driving lessons in the run up to my two tests that I don't think it's worth it. And of course its €80 every time you want to sit a test.
And thanks for discussing the issues with me. It's great!:pac: 0 -
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Tommie Kelly wrote: »Well, with regard to the standard of driving testers. My friend's sister did her test last year and the tester fell asleep during the exam He then failed her. Very professional eh?
Hmmm, no not really :eek:
""Move off as quick as you can even if you are unsure as they mark you for being slow." No. Absolutely not! If you are unsure you stay put."
Sorry but I feel you are absolutely wrong here. If you feel it is unsafe to move off but your tester doesn't agree you get marked. Plain and simple. Let's put it this way. Your instructor and examiner has years of experience on you. They will know when it's safe and not safe to pull out.
All my lessons have been during the day. Would it be harder to judge at night or easier? I tend to be play safer when I turn right and wait until I know I'm safe, but obvioulsy I should be doing it faster and will have to just go even if I don't think i can make it. That's the problem, you get marked for not moving off. My instructor gives out for me being, as he sees it too cautious. How can it encourage safe driving when you can be marked for being too cautious? Seriously? I don't understand. What am I missing here?
You see my problem is, that if I move off too early I could hit and kill someone. If i stay and make sure I am safe the worst that can happen is that the guy behind me has to wait an extra 20 seconds. SO how is that encouraging safe driving by marking me being slow at a right turn. How is pressureizing someone into getting out as quick as possible safer than letting them wait til they feel safe? Really?
It's harder to judge distances and speed at night. That's why I asked when you did lessons. I wondered if you were learning at night and sitting your test in daylight and this was causing you a problem. Have you actually been marked for "Progress" at all? Just you mentioned Position earlier. This goes back to my point above. The more you drive the better you become. At test standard you should be able to demonstrate that you know how what is a safe distance to turn. A part of driving is ensuring that you are not being an obstruction to other road users. This is where you get marked. I completely understand where you are coming from though and I do sympathise with you. It's clear that this is something you should practice on.
My point about making sure that the Tester sees your head moving is told to me by EVERYONE who has ever done a test. It's always the FIRST thing people say about driving test, including my instructor. So it has to be somewhat important no? You can look all you want but if the TESTER can't see you do it then you are marked. Moving your eyes is not enough for them to notice it seems.
That's in relation to mirrors. They way you had put it was coming out of a junction. At least, that's the way I understood it
With regard to marks at school you are entitled to get them rechecked (which I did for leaving cert Art and went from a c3 to an A1) In college you get a chance to sit with your lecturer and discuss your exams/papers (well at least i did when I went)
But you have no comeback from the driving test at all. What the tester says goes, even if you do appeal at the very best you get a free re-sit. It's not the same thing at all.
Thanks for the luck with the re-sit, I don't think I'll bother for a while to be honest. Don't see the point really, I have spent way too much money on driving lessons in the run up to my two tests that I don't think it's worth it. And of course its €80 every time you want to sit a test.
And thanks for discussing the issues with me. It's great!:pac:
A shame your considering giving up for the moment. I'd keep going if I were you. If/when you go back to it you'll have to re-learn things again which will end up costing you more in the long run. Can you practice with another licence holder between lessons?0 -
Yes, so someone who does not have years of experience of course won't be so good at judging when it's safe or not safe to pull out, and in these cases the best strategy is to err on the side of safety rather than risk lives.MascotDec85 wrote: »Let's put it this way. Your instructor and examiner has years of experience on you. They will know when it's safe and not safe to pull out.
If the instructor and tester want to encourage safe driving, then they should be more tolerant of a beginner's hesitation in tricky situations (i.e. not punish the novice driver for erring on the side of safety when they're unsure).
By marking for lack of progress in any situation when the tester would have pulled out sooner/faster, all he is doing is encouraging unsafe driving, by definition!
Practicing with a full-license holder at this point in lieu of lessons, as you suggest, is a very good idea... everybody needs time on the road to become more comfortable driving, and driving lessons are not particularly comfortable 0 -
Yes, so someone who does not have years of experience of course won't be so good at judging when it's safe or not safe to pull out, and in these cases the best strategy is to err on the side of safety rather than risk lives.
If the instructor and tester want to encourage safe driving, then they should be more tolerant of a beginner's hesitation in tricky situations (i.e. not punish the novice driver for erring on the side of safety when they're unsure).
By marking for lack of progress in any situation when the tester would have pulled out sooner/faster, all he is doing is encouraging unsafe driving, by definition!
Practicing with a full-license holder at this point in lieu of lessons, as you suggest, is a very good idea... everybody needs time on the road to become more comfortable driving, and driving lessons are not particularly comfortable
As I said, I understand and sympathise completely.
We are commenting on something we haven't witnessed for ourselves, only on what Tommie has described.
At test standard it's crucial that a pupil can judge distances/speeds well because if they pass they are out on their own without the comfort of an ADI with dual controls. It's about reaching a standard.Tommie suggested going the other way and going for it :eek:
Have a read at the L-Plate thread. If Tommie or anyone else holds up traffic at a junction there will be, unfortunately :rolleyes: a queue of impatient ****s behind standing on there horn heaping even more pressure on.0 -
Yes fair point, and I hope that the tester is looking for a reasonable standard rather than actually marking someone for lack of progress when they don't respond exactly as he himself would.MascotDec85 wrote: »At test standard it's crucial that a pupil can judge distances/speeds well because if they pass they are out on their own without the comfort of an ADI with dual controls. It's about reaching a standard.Tommie suggested going the other way and going for it :eek:
True, it wasn't long ago I was in the same situation (especially when my old Fiesta was firing on 3 out of 4 spark plugs and stalling at junctions, gah).MascotDec85 wrote: »Have a read at the L-Plate thread. If Tommie or anyone else holds up traffic at a junction there will be, unfortunately :rolleyes: a queue of impatient ****s behind standing on there horn heaping even more pressure on.
It's amazing what a difference a little time makes in this regard - I let a friend test drive my car around the block (coming up to his test in a while) and he slowed down to a crawl waaaay short of the turn. Straight away, someone was right on our bumper beeping :pac:
Honestly I think "failure to progress" problems will drop away for most people once they pass the test, because it's partially a confidence thing.0 -
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Yea I got marked for progress on right turns,
Oh I don't know guys. It is what it is and no amount of talk is gonna change anything about the test. I think there could be a lot changed to make it safer and less unfair on "Learner" drivers.
With regard to practice:
Yea, I drive all the time, my girlfriend has a full licence and I have driven round Drogheda, Navan, Newry, or Dundalk every weekend and around Ardee (where I live) all the time. I drive most days. in fact.
I'm actually a decent driver HAHA ( well I haven't killed anyone yet, been in any accidents or caused any. )
I work in Dublin so it would be handy to drive, but I don't mind the bus, I been going on them for years!0 -
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**Timbuk2** wrote: »I am gutted that I failed today. My instructor told me that I should have passed no problem (seems to be a common enough thing for them to say!).
I got 6 Grade 2s for Progress, 1 for Turning Left, 1 for Turning Right, and 4!! for Progress on the Straight.
I think I was driving too careful.
I also got a Grade 2 for 'Clutch'. What would this be for?
I got a Grade 2 for Competency on the Turnabout! Confused about this one, as I never had a problem with it before. I did it in 5, but that shouldn't be the reason as I think it is allowed. (Although it might have been possible to do it in 3 on this particular road, I wanted to be on the safe side).
My instructor was shocked. Hopefully next time.
How long does it take, in general, to receive a cancellation date?
No luck mate
Sounds like nerves might have gotten the better of you. It can happen, you just need to pick yourself up and keep practising.
So what happened do you think? Were you consistently driving under the speed limit?
Did you stop where you shouldn't have?
Did you stay too far back from vehicles in front?
Did you fail to move off promptly on a green light?
The "clutch" issue was possibly caused by you coasting - driving along with the clutch partially down or did the car jerk or judder during a gear change?
If the road was wide enough, that in the opinion of the examiner you could have turned the car in 3 he'd certainly have marked you for competency.
Next time if you think you can do it in 3, do it in 3. Prove to him how well you can handle the car.0 -
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richard2010 wrote: »Failed for the second time in Finglas, was only 3 blues off passing. Wasnt half as nervous this time as I was the last time. On a side note I couldnt fault the tester, lovely man. Hope to have him again. Its still a pity that they cant go through the results with you. I hear 3rd times a charm!! :P:D
Unlucky, good attitude on you
What blues did you get? Did your instructor go through things with you after it?0 -
MascotDec85 wrote: »Unlucky, good attitude on you
What blues did you get? Did your instructor go through things with you after it?
Well I figure there is no point in effing and blinding the guy out of it just cause he failed me. After all hes there to do a job. Nothing more nothing less. Most of the blues centre around the footbrake (being too harsh), once for coasting, and gears (that was a big one), reaction to harzards, a few for obs, reverse and parking (hate this one)
I've always had a gripe with the gears, clutch and foortbrake with these so I am not surprised by it but nxt time. My instructor did go through things with me afterwards and almost immediately I was able to point to where and when it happened as we re-traced the test route.
Its a vast improvement on first attempt (22 blues) as opposed to 11 this time round. I'll admit its a big disappointment and its becoming costly but I hope with more practice, Ill get it on my next outing!!
For those out there who have failed, dont give up! I know it can be demoraling and painful, but keep on trucking and one day you will eventually get it!!
Good to luck to everyone who is re-doing there test again!
Richard0 -
Join Date:Posts: 6903
richard2010 wrote: »Its a vast improvement on first attempt (22 blues) as opposed to 11 this time round. I'll admit its a big disappointment and its becoming costly but I hope with more practice, Ill get it on my next outing!!
On the bright side, you halved your previous test score. If you continue the trend, you will pass next time
Best of luck!0 -
**Timbuk2** wrote: »I am gutted that I failed today. My instructor told me that I should have passed no problem (seems to be a common enough thing for them to say!).
I got 6 Grade 2s for Progress, 1 for Turning Left, 1 for Turning Right, and 4!! for Progress on the Straight.
I think I was driving too careful.
I also got a Grade 2 for 'Clutch'. What would this be for?
I got a Grade 2 for Competency on the Turnabout! Confused about this one, as I never had a problem with it before. I did it in 5, but that shouldn't be the reason as I think it is allowed. (Although it might have been possible to do it in 3 on this particular road, I wanted to be on the safe side).
My instructor was shocked. Hopefully next time.
How long does it take, in general, to receive a cancellation date?
Got nearly exactly the same, felt hard done by as I was keeping to the limit and getting to it in no time and really felt I wasn't being overcautious.
<SNIP>
Got 4 Grade 2's on Straight, 2 on Left turn, 1 on Right turn and one on clutch, 2 for hazards which I reacted to and slowed and stopped as I had anticipated them in time but still marked me down, but knew the guy was in it for me.
Wouldn't mind but I'm 29, clean cut professional male in an unmodified 00 Corolla, nothing that screams out boy racer
<SNIP>0 -
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