Unsuccessful - post here

MascotDec85

john47832 wrote: »

It doesnt matter about me, i can pass a test, it may be next time i try or it it may be 6th or 7th time i try, financially its a gamble that im not willing to take at this moment, my point is the test or the instructor is not scrutinized in any way which results in a great number of inconsistincies

It's a Tester or Examiner, not an instructor.

You entered a debate and seem to have quite a strong opinion on the matter but when asked any questions so that people can understand your situation fully you don't what to answer

mark renton

sorry, i meant tester - i am not dabating that its about me not passing, i have stated my situation more than clearly in previous post, go read post as im not duplicating - my point is about the current lottery that is the driving test, as previous points have indicated

MascotDec85

john47832 wrote: »

sorry, i meant tester - i am not dabating that its about me not passing, i have stated my situation more than clearly in previous post, go read post as im not duplicating - my point is about the current lottery that is the driving test, as previous points have indicated

I read your points.

As I said, to try a get a better level of understanding as to why you actually failed I thought I'd ask you a couple of direct questions. Without you answering those questions your posts could be construed as sour grapes.

mark renton

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I read your points.

As I said, to try a get a better level of understanding as to why you actually failed I thought I'd ask you a couple of direct questions. Without you answering those questions your posts could be construed as sour grapes.

I have stated my situation, you have obviously not stated clearly your situation or where you are coming from, so lets take away both situations and answer one question

who does a driving tester answer to about a test?

StinkySocs

I failed my test 3 times so far.
1st time I was totally crap
2nd the test brought me to a really busy road to do the reverse round the corner, I had to wait 10 mins before I could even attempt it, it was so busy. By the time I got around the corner, I was in the middle of the road.
3rd time, I hit the curb doing the reverse round the corner - FAIL

So I'll be doin it again at the end of the month, cross ur fingers for me

molloyjazz

Are they still deducting points for nervousness? if so how is it defined?

Midnight_EG

molloyjazz wrote: »

Are they still deducting points for nervousness? if so how is it defined?

Being nervous shouldn't be marked on as long as it doesn't carry onto your driving abilities. If by being nervous you may cut out or have a lapse of judgement, then you'll be marked on the consequences of that lapse, nothing else. The tester is supposed to make you feel relaxed and keep you calm, act as if s/he isn't there, just a voice telling you what to do.

MascotDec85

john47832 wrote: »

I have stated my situation, you have obviously not stated clearly your situation or where you are coming from, so lets take away both situations and answer one question

who does a driving tester answer to about a test?

Could it be that because you've been driving so long you picked up some habits in your driving and these are actually to blame for not passing? We all pick up bad habits after passing our tests, some more than others.

Did you do any lessons with an ADI before your test or did you do a pre-test with an ADI?

What's not clear about those 2 questions?

I understand that reports suggest discrepancies in testing. I'm not disputing that it occurs and yes, it's wrong. However, quite often the tester is the first person a pupil who has failed will blame instead of looking closer to home, hence my questions.

You may, in fact, be entirely correct but it's unfair to paint a very one-sided picture and not answer questions about your test or your preparation for it.

mark renton

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Being nervous shouldn't be marked on as long as it doesn't carry onto your driving abilities. .

it shouldnt be, however we have no real way of knowing as testers are not scrutinized

mark renton

MascotDec85 wrote: »

What's not clear about those 2 questions?

I understand that reports suggest discrepancies in testing. I'm not disputing that it occurs and yes, it's wrong. However, quite often the tester is the first person a pupil who has failed will blame instead of looking closer to home, hence my questions.

You may, in fact, be entirely correct but it's unfair to paint a very one-sided picture and not answer questions about your test or your preparation for it.

of course its possible i may have bad habits, and yes i did to pre tests, and as most have said on this thread the instructor can find no/or little faults

Btwndeyes

failed my test last week. did the whole test thought i did well. went bak to th centre only to find out id failed by going to close to a parked car. fair enough but this was near the start of the test and the instructor never bothered to mark the rest of the test....

ElBarco

john47832 wrote: »

im referring to both the least amount of preparation and clicking better with tester which seems to add substance to my lottery point

I still don't think that makes it a lottery. I thought my examiner was an utter prat both when I failed and when I passed. The least preperation thing seems fairly obvious to me - after 4 goes I'd hope you wouldn't have to swot up beforehand

you seem to be slightly out of touch, you would think this would be standard requirement

How does that make me out of touch? Are you suggesting that every test should consist of two examiners to make sure they agree with each other? Although that might make things fairer it could only lead to massive expense and a consequent increase in waiting times.

bad experience ? i didnt pass a test, disappointed yes but it doesnt have to be a bad experience, it just doesnt make sense for me financially to do another test at this minute when its appears to be a gamble - it doesnt make me any better a driver, im not stopped from driving on motorways as i dont use L plates, i stick to driving limits and pay tax and insurance so im very rarely stopped, if I am stopped its only ever for tax or breathilizer tests

until somebody gives me justifiable cause for sitting an driving test I just dont get it

It seems to have been a bad experience based on your comments here. It may not make you a better driver but it's the only mechanism you have to prove you are a competent driver in the eyes of the state. Just because you follow the rest of the rules of the road doesn't make you exempt from this one.

zynaps

john47832 wrote: »

dont be mistaken, not everybody on this thread are 17/18 year olds with little expreience, a lot are like myself who have been driving for 5 - 10 yrs plus with considerable no claims bonus - you see its us that see it as a joke, I have already proved my competence as a driver in the real world and find it hard to believe i have to play the lottery with a driving tester

There are definitely problems which many of us have discussed in this very thread, particularly relating to the lack of transparency in how the testers operate (i.e. refusing to explain any results in the context of what actually happened on the road, or even offer any advice on what to work on generally), but also the apparently arbitrary variations in marking.

However it's still not quite a lottery - even if it (on average) works out at 50% your skill + 50% randomness from the tester, your chance of passing the test is still proportional to your driving skill (and relaxedness, knowledge of the ROTR etc). So to say "it's pretty random, I'm never doing it again" is pessimistic and a bad idea really - sooner or later driving on a learner's permit will cause you trouble, as someone mentioned already it just takes one "letter of the law" garda looking to make someone's day worse (although it never happened to me, even driving alone with L-plates, but I didn't do it very often or in busy places).

Also no matter how long you're driving, you'll still have things to learn (and should be happy about the prospect)! Just yesterday I realised from reading a R&R post that I've been using the wrong lane going straight on two-lane roundabouts :eek:

MascotDec85

john47832 wrote: »

of course its possible i may have bad habits, and yes i did to pre tests, and as most have said on this thread the instructor can find no/or little faults

Thanks

Human nature dictates that people will behave very differently under test conditions than they would under normal circumstances. I've also read on here that posters are going/being allowed to go and sit their test when clearly they aren't ready.

I do also agree with you that there should be more transparency in relation to Testing & Results. I don't however agree that tester's should justify their decisions with the pupil at the end of the test. To do so could and would lead to volatile situations

mark renton

ElBarco wrote: »

The least preperation thing seems fairly obvious to me - after 4 goes I'd hope you wouldn't have to swot up beforehand.

so then please explain pasing on fifth attempt and not fourth because the only difference I can see is a different tester on a different day

ElBarco wrote: »

How does that make me out of touch?
.

i suggested you may be out of touch as you clearly stated that your belief was that testers were somehow monitored

ElBarco wrote: »

It seems to have been a bad experience based on your comments here. It may not make you a better driver but it's the only mechanism you have to prove you are a competent driver in the eyes of the state. Just because you follow the rest of the rules of the road doesn't make you exempt from this one.

i follow the rules of the road, the only one i dont follow is being accompanied by a driver with a full licence, i believe im not on my own

ElBarco

john47832 wrote: »

so then please explain pasing on fifth attempt and not fourth because the only difference I can see is a different tester on a different day

Experience? Sacrificed the right kind of lamb? No idea, but neither you nor I have the full story.

i suggested you may be out of touch as you clearly stated that your belief was that testers were somehow monitored

Indeed, what I was talking about was my belief that tests sometimes had a supervisor come along to monitor the tester. A quick google got me this:

a supervisory tester may accompany the tester - this is quite normal.

(source: [LINK]http://www.drivingtest.ie/drivingtest/frameset.html[/LINK]

From this I would say that testers aren't quite the lone cowboys you seem to think they are. I do agree with you by the way - more oversight could only be a good thing.

i follow the rules of the road, the only one i dont follow is being accompanied by a driver with a full licence, i believe im not on my own

That's two now - you don't need a full license and you don't need to be acompanied. The only way to prove the latter is to pass the test; no if's but's or why's.

mark renton

ElBarco wrote: »

Experience? Sacrificed the right kind of lamb? No idea, but neither you nor I have the full story.
.

nor you or i have next weeks lotto numbers, ill try the lamb thing before i go to the shop!!

ElBarco

john47832 wrote: »

nor you or i have next weeks lotto numbers, ill try the lamb thing before i go to the shop!!

Still waiting for it work for me but we're coming into the right season for it!

We both know (or have available to us) the means to pass the driving test.

Reloc8

john47832 wrote: »

ive only failed once and i gave up, driving testers are not even answerable to anyone, they cant even be questioned for their reasons or actions, until this changes then I will not do another test - i have 4 years no claims bonus and never had an accident, its a joke, if you drive along the quays in dublin you will have taxi drivers breaking sharply right in front of you with no indicator or signal to stop or turn - in no way does this test make roads safer or drivers more skilled - at this point there appears to be no cause for me to obtain a full licence as insurance would only be cheaper by the amount for a couple of driving lessons and a test

Fair enough if so - I'd be inclined to pass the test so I could legally drive unaccompanied and on motorways (yes the test doesn't include motorways but thems the rules etc.) and without L Plates.

Anyway, under the new licensing regime, you won't get a third learner permit unless you demonstrate that you have taken a test in the two year period prior to the application for 3rd permit, or have a forthcoming test date in which case you will be given a 12 month permit. So if you're 4 years driving, you're presumably coming up to your 3rd (at the minimum) learner permit and will have to take the test anyway, whether you are happy that examiners are properly supervised or not (which I suppose is the whole point of not letting people drift along on provisionals/L permits for as long as they want).

mark renton

Reloc8 wrote: »

Fair enough if so - I'd be inclined to pass the test so I could legally drive unaccompanied and on motorways (yes the test doesn't include motorways but thems the rules etc.) and without L Plates.

Anyway, under the new licensing regime, you won't get a third learner permit unless you demonstrate that you have taken a test in the two year period prior to the application for 3rd permit, or have a forthcoming test date in which case you will be given a 12 month permit. So if you're 4 years driving, you're presumably coming up to your 3rd (at the minimum) learner permit and will have to take the test anyway, whether you are happy that examiners are properly supervised or not (which I suppose is the whole point of not letting people drift along on provisionals/L permits for as long as they want).

well actually you dont have to take a driving test to renew provisional licence, application to take driving test suffices

Reloc8

Well...I can see why you'd think that....but Article 19 of the relevant statutory instrument (number 537 of 2006 as amended) provides that

"19. (1) (a) Subject to this paragraph, a person shall not apply for a provisional licence to drive vehicles of a category where that person has held 2 or more provisional licences in respect of vehicles in that category unless, within the period of 2 years ending on the date of application, that person underwent a driving test in relation to vehicles of that category and produces evidence to that effect to the licensing authority.

19(b) A person to whom subparagraph (a) relates and who has not produced evidence to the effect that he or she underwent a driving test, may subsequently apply for a provisional licence in respect of that category where such application is accompanied by evidence that a driving test has been arranged for that person in respect of a vehicle in that category. Subject to Regulation 17(2), a provisional licence granted in accordance with this paragraph has effect for a period of one year.
(c) Subparagraph (a) does not apply where the applicant satisfies the licensing authority that because of illness, as certified by a registered medical practitioner, the applicant was not in a position to submit to a driving test."

So you can't apply without proof that you have either done a test or that one is pending for you. If you reckon that entitles you to just keep on getting 12 month licenses for ever fair enough - I don't think the licensing authority will necessarily see it that way.

Be that as it may you'll be paying the test fee annually, and the license fee annually (which comes to €90), and presumably not bothering to turn up for the test in any event....seems like an awful lot of hassle & inconvenience all round...plus you'll have to be arranging your applications for a test to fall within a particular window of time so as to ensure a test date 'has been arranged' before yours expires...i.e. an actual test date assigned.

I'd say you'd be quicker passing the test than waiting for its implementations to satisfy your own requirements.

mark renton

my experience has not been as such in article 19

i can apply for a test, receive notification of driving test, then produce said notification to licencing upon application, after a couple of head nods and a very small amount of money exchanged acceptance is granted

then i cancel said driving test and receive refund - sweet

MascotDec85

john47832 wrote: »

my experience has not been as such in article 19

i can apply for a test, receive notification of driving test, then produce said notification to licencing upon application, after a couple of head nods and a very small amount of money exchanged acceptance is granted

then i cancel said driving test and receive refund - sweet

Or put in the effort, pass the test and save all the hassle :rolleyes:

Reloc8

john47832 wrote: »

my experience has not been as such in article 19

i can apply for a test, receive notification of driving test, then produce said notification to licencing upon application, after a couple of head nods and a very small amount of money exchanged acceptance is granted

then i cancel said driving test and receive refund - sweet

Well, its a matter for yourself entirely.

I personally would just prefer not to worry about my situation in the context of displaying L plates/driving unaccompanied/driving abroad/hire cars etc etc etc.

If it seems sweet to you then more power to you.

**Timbuk2**

This was my test sheet (failed last Wednesday).


I am determined to pass next time. On the bright side, I now know what to work on for the next time and I won't be as nervous as it won't be my first test.

Does anyone have any advice for me, based on the above test sheet? I'm getting a lesson with an ADI next week, and I will show him the test sheet and see if he can advise me. I applied for a cancellation the day I failed the first one, but I really hope I pass the 2nd time.

zynaps

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I am determined to pass next time. On the bright side, I now know what to work on for the next time and I won't be as nervous as it won't be my first test.

Does anyone have any advice for me, based on the above test sheet? I'm getting a lesson with an ADI next week, and I will show him the test sheet and see if he can advise me. I applied for a cancellation the day I failed the first one, but I really hope I pass the 2nd time.

The fact that you had no grade 2s for reaction to hazards tells me you're a very good driver. It seems that it's one of the hardest things to nail down when learning. 4 marks for progress on the straight - would be good to know exactly what the context of that was, maybe just hanging back a bit further than necessary?

tba

@john47832 Just put the head down and drive your socks off on the test day, pass it and you will feel better for it.

If you can't do that then I'm afraid you are just not destined to be a driver.

@**Timbuk2** where was your test? Failure to make progress on the straight can mean that you were driving significantly slower than the speed limit when no hazards were present. Good result apart from that.

Position turning right is an easy one to nail, get your instructor to run that by you first.

MascotDec85

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

This was my test sheet (failed last Wednesday).


I am determined to pass next time. On the bright side, I now know what to work on for the next time and I won't be as nervous as it won't be my first test.

Does anyone have any advice for me, based on the above test sheet? I'm getting a lesson with an ADI next week, and I will show him the test sheet and see if he can advise me. I applied for a cancellation the day I failed the first one, but I really hope I pass the 2nd time.

I advised you on the roundabout & turning right observation already so Position Turning Right. Make sure you stay close the the centre of the road, just to the left of the white line. If turning right into a side street you should not steer right until your front wheels are level with the dividing line of the road you are about to turn into....this is called your Point of Turn. Doing this will ensure that you do not cut the corner of the stop/yield line. On a right turn of this kind it generally takes 1 full turn of the wheel to get you round. If you steer less or start your turn after the dividing line you will have to adjust your steering again, this is called swan-necking. It's when you take the turn too wide and have to correct it to get back into the correct position. Another common turning right issue can be when emerging from a junction/side road into another road. If you steer too early and drive across the oncoming lane you will get penalised. This turn should be broken in two. Drive out from the stop/yield line and as the road centre line disappears out of view from the front of your car, turn the wheel.

Progress on the Straight: This is basically not maintaining a reasonable distance behind the car in front or delaying the progress of following traffic by not keeping to the speed limit where possible. My advice here is, when possible, and the road ahead is clear drive at the speed limit and not below. If the traffic in front is driving below the speed limit ensure you maintain a suitable gap (2 secs in dry conditions). In other words unless the car in front is speeding excessively (more than 10%) maintain the gap.

Progress turning left or right: This is generally marked when a pupil has not taken an appropriate gap in the traffic to make a left or right turn or slowing the car down too much after being told to make a turn.
The first part is down to judgement and you will grasp this the more you practice. It's a case of thinking, "If I pull out here am I likely to cause the oncoming car to brake?" If the answer is yes, you stay put.
The second part is about maintaining progress, braking a bit more gently on the approach and changing down to 2nd only when you get close to the turn. You ADI will explain this in the car where it's simpler to explain.

Clutch: Looks like you've probably been coasting at some point. Move you foot away from the clutch pedal unless you are changing gears. Try not to use it as a foot rest.

Competency on your turnabout: Did you do any of this?

Hit or bumped a kerb, went too slow across or too fast or didn't use the controls properly like handbrake, footbrake, steering etc? How many turns did it take? Where you the person who did it in 5 but think you could have done it in 3?

EoinG

Does anyone know where I can get a blank version of the sheet above online?

If not, can someone tell me how many points off you are allowed for the 3 different grades?

Thanks!

DriveSkill

EoinG wrote: »

Does anyone know where I can get a blank version of the sheet above online?

If not, can someone tell me how many points off you are allowed for the 3 different grades?

Thanks!

All the info is here : http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/the-driving-test/driving-test-report-form.html