Unsuccessful - post here

Galbin

caldew wrote: »

Have I missed something?

The tester said Agent Smith "was grand". How does that translate to Agent Smith "can clearly drive safely!" and " a great and safe driver"

Agent Smith wrote: »

I was going grand (tester even said after) untill My turn about...

He was lovely in fairness, and Advised me to go for it again Straight away!

The tester said he was "going grand" and then encouraged him to go for it again straight away. I find that odd. It's a strange system when the tester basically tells the learner that they believe they can drive, but that they just can't pass them today. I don't know what else to say if you can't see the flaw in such a system.

caldew

Agent Smith had Gear, Observation and Clutch marks plus another 8 grade 2 faults.

That is 11 serious faults.

How is that a flaw in the system.

I think the test is far from perfect and needs to be reviewed to make it more like normal day to day driving, but if you are continually making serious mistakes you should not be driving.

Galbin

caldew wrote: »

Agent Smith had Gear, Observation and Clutch marks plus another 8 grade 2 faults.

That is 11 serious faults.

How is that a flaw in the system.

I think the test is far from perfect and needs to be reviewed to make it more like normal day to day driving, but if you are continually making serious mistakes you should not be driving.

Yes, but he didn't have those faults until he started panicking. And the tester told him he was good and that he definitely should book another test straight away. Clearly, he was strongly suggesting that he should have passed! None of my foreign friends (Australian, Canadian, and American) can believe how hard our test is, and how there is such discrepancies between test centres. I truly don't think people should be failed for stuff like this. Anyway, this is taking up the thread, so I'll leave it off.

Agent Smith

Galbin wrote: »

Yes, but he didn't have those faults until he started panicking. And the tester told him he was good and that he definitely should book another test straight away. Clearly, he was strongly suggesting that he should have passed! None of my foreign friends (Australian, Canadian, and American) can believe how hard our test is, and how there is such discrepancies between test centres. I truly don't think people should be failed for stuff like this. Anyway, this is taking up the thread, so I'll leave it off.

ed.

I am not in any way blaming the tester, If anything, he put me at ease and was very helpfull with explaining what happened and where i went wrong after. At the end of the day, we give out about people not driving properly in this country all the time, (indicators are seemingly optional?!) It would have been wrong for him to pass when i made those mistakes. I took the advise, and have booked it again.

Galbin

Agent Smith wrote: »

ed.

I am not in any way blaming the tester, If anything, he put me at ease and was very helpfull with explaining what happened and where i went wrong after. At the end of the day, we give out about people not driving properly in this country all the time, (indicators are seemingly optional?!) It would have been wrong for him to pass when i made those mistakes. I took the advise, and have booked it again.

Yes, but why suggest you needed to book soon so that you could pass? I just think the system is deeply flawed if a tester is basically saying, "I won't pass you during these 30 minutes on Monday, but if you drive another 30 mins with me on Tuesday I would". I mean, you either think someone is a safe and competent driver, or you don't. I am questioning the system, rather than your specific tester.

LOTRfan187

Hi all, ( new here)

I did my test first time on Tuesday in Finglas and failed. Overall I was feeling it was going well during the test until I got onto a dual carriageway and made a few silly mistakes. My turnabout, reverse around corner, hill start were all perfect.

I'm feel pretty frustrated and hopeless due to the fact I took a good amount of lessons last year for 4 months, took a break for a while and started driving again this year a lot since around March. I've spent a lot of money on driving lessons which is kind of difficult for me to understand, I'm also out driving in my dad's car practically every day of the week and not just in the same area. I feel I'm a really confident driver but can't really get my head around what way the test is marked. I understand the grades and all, but I never received any feedback on my test even when it was finished, I was basically told I failed and that my positioning on the straight is too far ( although I wasn't near the white line! ) and that was it.

I want to book my test again but I feel really down about it. Everyone in my family passed first time and they all think I'm a good driver so they don't understand it . I'm not sure what to do regarding lessons as I've switched driving instructors a lot but still don't feel like I'm being told exactly what I need to do. I've spent so much on them ( been training with an expensive school)... anyone have any advice on what way to get back into feeling hopeful again and wanting to book the test?

CoffeeCrap

Hard luck LOTRfan187. I failed in Finglas a few weeks ago and was in a similar situation, was feeling confident going in and during the test and had taken a lot of lessons.

I picked up four grade 2's in gears, the tester said I wasn't switching up to third gear fast enough. I was a bit miffed as I thought surely that qualifies as a grade 1 instead.

I also had one or two for coasting when coming to a stop and one or two more silly mistakes.

I can recommend a good instructor in that area that isn't as expensive as some of the bigger schools. My plan is to book another test this weekend and to focus on the lessons again for the next while, no point wasting all the test-momentum built up!

J_R

CoffeeCrap wrote: »

Hard luck LOTRfan187. I failed in Finglas a few weeks ago and was in a similar situation, was feeling confident going in and during the test and had taken a lot of lessons.

I picked up four grade 2's in gears, the tester said I wasn't switching up to third gear fast enough. I was a bit miffed as I thought surely that qualifies as a grade 1 instead.

I also had one or two for coasting when coming to a stop and one or two more silly mistakes.
!

Hi,

Sorry you failed.

The tester explained the gears, did he also explain how you coasted to a stop, why he marked you . ? Are you sure it was for stopping ?

LOTRfan187

CoffeeCrap wrote: »

Hard luck LOTRfan187. I failed in Finglas a few weeks ago and was in a similar situation, was feeling confident going in and during the test and had taken a lot of lessons.

I picked up four grade 2's in gears, the tester said I wasn't switching up to third gear fast enough. I was a bit miffed as I thought surely that qualifies as a grade 1 instead.

I also had one or two for coasting when coming to a stop and one or two more silly mistakes.

I can recommend a good instructor in that area that isn't as expensive as some of the bigger schools. My plan is to book another test this weekend and to focus on the lessons again for the next while, no point wasting all the test-momentum built up!

Thanks CoffeeCrap,

It seems pretty harsh to give grade 2 for that! A lot of people have told me not to do it again in Finglas as it's a tricky area . I'm thinking of booking it for somewhere else.

Did you get a report sheet after it listing where you went wrong? I received nothing not even in an email..so I'm still a bit clueless on where I went wrong. Yeah I think I will do the same, hopefully will feel a bit better about it by then.

CoffeeCrap

Hi J_R,

He told me I was putting the clutch in too soon when coming to a stop. I think this happened because I brake a bit hard generally so I was going too slow approaching the stop and had to clutch in earlier to avoid making the car chug.

Apologies if I sound bitter, I'm Not, it was a good experience and I'll give it a better go next time!

islandlady

LOTRfan187 wrote: »

Thanks CoffeeCrap,

It seems pretty harsh to give grade 2 for that! A lot of people have told me not to do it again in Finglas as it's a tricky area . I'm thinking of booking it for somewhere else.

Did you get a report sheet after it listing where you went wrong? I received nothing not even in an email..so I'm still a bit clueless on where I went wrong. Yeah I think I will do the same, hopefully will feel a bit better about it by then.

You certainly should have gotten an email. I'm not sure about getting a hard copy of feedback at the test centre but I received an email within two hours detailing where my mistakes were, and I passed so I certainly think you should have received something. My tester went through my marks with me after the test and then explained it would be emailed to me later. Definitely follow this up.

J_R

CoffeeCrap wrote: »

Hi J_R,

He told me I was putting the clutch in too soon when coming to a stop. I think this happened because I brake a bit hard generally so I was going too slow approaching the stop and had to clutch in earlier to avoid making the car chug.

Apologies if I sound bitter, I'm Not, it was a good experience and I'll give it a better go next time!

Hi,

Thanks. Did you depress the clutch before braking. ? Normally if you are braking - the main controlling factor controlling the car are the brakes, therefore it really is immaterial if the clutch is depressed or not.

You must brake first, then before the car would chug, depress the clutch. To come to a smooth halt, brake hard initially, then ease off as you slow.
.
Sounds like you literally "Coasted" to a halt. Depressed the clutch and let the car lose momentum.

Practice braking to a smooth halt.

CoffeeCrap

Hi J_R,

Thanks for the advice. I applied brakes first to slow myself to the point where the car was almost chugging, then depressed the clutch and kept light pressure on the breaks.

It was not a case where I did not use the breaks and relied solely on clutch to roll me to the stopping point as I knew that that would be a definite coasting fault.

I think the point the tester had was that i applied too much braking too soon, so I was depressing the clutch (to avoid the car chugging) a bit too far back from the stopping point but too close to get away with changing down to second.

J_R

CoffeeCrap wrote: »

Hi J_R,

Thanks for the advice. I applied brakes first to slow myself to the point where the car was almost chugging, then depressed the clutch and kept light pressure on the breaks.

It was not a case where I did not use the breaks and relied solely on clutch to roll me to the stopping point as I knew that that would be a definite coasting fault.

I think the point the tester had was that i applied too much braking too soon, so I was depressing the clutch (to avoid the car chugging) a bit too far back from the stopping point but too close to get away with changing down to second.

Hi,



I taught my pupils to stop in whatever gear they happened to be in, even if this happened to be 6th and to the best of my knowledge none got marked for coasting, even if this happened to be 6th.

I did two separate advanced tests. Emergency braking in both. Each time I hit the brakes then almost immediately depressed the clutch not marked either time, this at 80, 100 Kmh. On a modern car it is imperative that you do not stall the car as normally the engine supplies the power-assist to the steering and brakes, hence depress the clutch before danger of stalling.

As said in first post the brakes are the dominant controlling factor. If braking to a stop in a straight line the car is perfectly completely under control, if fitted with ABS can even swerve and still maintain full control - all with the clutch depressed.

If I was your instructor I would drop into the test center and have a chat with the examiner. The examiner can not discuss the actual test but he can give guidance or clarification on say braking to a stop. (Always found the examiners happy to discuss . )

And as I said first post practice braking.

LOTRfan187

islandlady wrote: »

You certainly should have gotten an email. I'm not sure about getting a hard copy of feedback at the test centre but I received an email within two hours detailing where my mistakes were, and I passed so I certainly think you should have received something. My tester went through my marks with me after the test and then explained it would be emailed to me later. Definitely follow this up.

I finally got the results sent in an email today from the rsa, they had been sent to the driving school I was using (who never bothered to forward it on )...

4 grade 2's for my positioning on the straight ( I thought I was pretty close to the left mostly though)... and 5 grade 2's for reaction to hazards . It was pretty unfortunate a lot of hazards occurred around that area for me at the time which never happened to me before. Gonna practice more anyway and book again.

islandlady

LOTRfan187 wrote: »

I finally got the results sent in an email today from the rsa, they had been sent to the driving school I was using (who never bothered to forward it on )...

4 grade 2's for my positioning on the straight ( I thought I was pretty close to the left mostly though)... and 5 grade 2's for reaction to hazards . It was pretty unfortunate a lot of hazards occurred around that area for me at the time which never happened to me before. Gonna practice more anyway and book again.

Thats a pity, and a shame it took so long for you to get them. Positioning on the straight was something I needed to work on a lot before my test too, its difficult to decipher what is too far left or not. As for reaction to hazards, I completely understand what you mean, I had a pedestrian nearly walk in front of me during my test and I kinda had to beckon him out because he was so far across the road I couldn't pass him and I was holding up traffic. My tester put it down as a grade 1 though as it wasn't completely my fault, you just don't know whats gonna happenn on the day! Hope your practice over the next few weeks goes well, I'm sure you'll fly the next test!

Fanboii

Failed this morning out in churchtown. All the technical parts went well as in the reverse around the corner, 3 point turn and hill start. As with most posters here I'm feeling a little hard done by but I accept I failed. I just think if I implemented what the tester criticised me for I might as easily have another tester fail me for doing just that.

I failed for going too fast. Now, when I say too fast I was going under the speed limit on open roads. My cornering was another area he marked me down as I was also travelling too fast coming into corners. I made sure that every turn I made was in at least 2nd with the car almost chugging. This meant I had to keep my foot on the clutch for longer than I would have liked in order not to stall. This is another item I got marked down for.

I also got a mark against me coming up to a set of lights with a yellow box. I stayed clear of the box and the lights went green and traffic began to move off. I moved off slowly only for a car in the opposite lane to turn across the yellow box into a parking lot. I stopped but not harshly. I figured they might try to do exactly what they did.

Back at the test centre I was told "you should've just let that car in, you would have been doing him a favour.".

I feel as though if I implement all the criticism I got from the tester I could easily fail on failing to make progress and also letting someone out.

He also mentioned that I'm well able to drive and should be passing/should've passed but that I failed. I've reapplied but am at a loss.

optogirl

Fanboii wrote: »

Failed this morning out in churchtown. All the technical parts went well as in the reverse around the corner, 3 point turn and hill start. As with most posters here I'm feeling a little hard done by but I accept I failed. I just think if I implemented what the tester criticised me for I might as easily have another tester fail me for doing just that.

I failed for going too fast. Now, when I say too fast I was going under the speed limit on open roads. My cornering was another area he marked me down as I was also travelling too fast coming into corners. I made sure that every turn I made was in at least 2nd with the car almost chugging. This meant I had to keep my foot on the clutch for longer than I would have liked in order not to stall. This is another item I got marked down for.

I also got a mark against me coming up to a set of lights with a yellow box. I stayed clear of the box and the lights went green and traffic began to move off. I moved off slowly only for a car in the opposite lane to turn across the yellow box into a parking lot. I stopped but not harshly. I figured they might try to do exactly what they did.

Back at the test centre I was told "you should've just let that car in, you would have been doing him a favour.".

I feel as though if I implement all the criticism I got from the tester I could easily fail on failing to make progress and also letting someone out.

He also mentioned that I'm well able to drive and should be passing/should've passed but that I failed. I've reapplied but am at a loss.

It's so disappointing and feels rotten to STILL have it hanging over you but just reapply and keep going - it took me 8 attempts -nerves were a massive factor in most of those. Getting some pretest lessons on the last one was the difference - I passed with one fault compared to a minimum of 7 in all the other tests

Don't give up - you will get there.

Alanstrainor

Fanboii wrote: »

Failed this morning out in churchtown. All the technical parts went well as in the reverse around the corner, 3 point turn and hill start. As with most posters here I'm feeling a little hard done by but I accept I failed. I just think if I implemented what the tester criticised me for I might as easily have another tester fail me for doing just that.

I failed for going too fast. Now, when I say too fast I was going under the speed limit on open roads. My cornering was another area he marked me down as I was also travelling too fast coming into corners. I made sure that every turn I made was in at least 2nd with the car almost chugging. This meant I had to keep my foot on the clutch for longer than I would have liked in order not to stall. This is another item I got marked down for.

I also got a mark against me coming up to a set of lights with a yellow box. I stayed clear of the box and the lights went green and traffic began to move off. I moved off slowly only for a car in the opposite lane to turn across the yellow box into a parking lot. I stopped but not harshly. I figured they might try to do exactly what they did.

Back at the test centre I was told "you should've just let that car in, you would have been doing him a favour.".

I feel as though if I implement all the criticism I got from the tester I could easily fail on failing to make progress and also letting someone out.

He also mentioned that I'm well able to drive and should be passing/should've passed but that I failed. I've reapplied but am at a loss.

Hard luck. By all accounts it sounds like you just had a bad day of it; the next time around should see you pass.

You shouldn't be letting the car almost stall when cornering, and you shouldn't be on the clutch when doing so. It is also possible that you were carrying too much speed approaching the corner, and were not slowing in enough time. Even though the actual turn was done slowly. (Quite hard to know the reasoning here however).

The part of the test at the junction is quite hard to really understand from what you've said. But I wouldn't read into it much at all. Best to just ignore that slightly unusual situation I reckon. I will say that it does strike me as strange given what you've said. As you are not permitted to beckon other drivers to pass in front of you. But if the turning car was effectively bullying their way through the junction you may have had no choice but to just let them pass, technically not beckoning in that case.

Back on the saddle I reckon. Take another lesson or two with an emphasis on cornering and little niggles. And you should be set.

Galbin

I understand why they gave you points for the turns as they would have been only too delighted to give you marks for coasting. And four marks in the same category, and it's all over. ;( However, I don't know why he marked you down for the yellow box incident. So sorry for ya. Our testing process is terrible and it's so disheartening when you see people with full licences doing everything wrong (swan necking; coasting; sitting in yellow boxes etc.)

Plus, it absolutely disgusts me that both testers and instructors will say, "You're well able to drive," but then proceed to fail the person they said that to. It's completely illogical that someone can declare that you can drive, yet fail you at the same time.

Fanboii

Galbin wrote: »

I understand why they gave you points for the turns as they would have been only too delighted to give you marks for coasting. And four marks in the same category, and it's all over. ;( However, I don't know why he marked you down for the yellow box incident. So sorry for ya. Our testing process is terrible and it's so disheartening when you see people with full licences doing everything wrong (swan necking; coasting; sitting in yellow boxes etc.)

Plus, it absolutely disgusts me that both testers and instructors will say, "You're well able to drive," but then proceed to fail the person they said that to. It's completely illogical that someone can declare that you can drive, yet fail you at the same time.

It could well be for coasting or it could be for what Alanstrainor mentioned about coming up to the corner too quickly and having to reduce my speed too quickly. I can only really guess as no further information was provided so I'm not really sure as to what it is I'm doing that caused me to fail. This was the second time I've sat the test. First time around I failed due to failing to make progress and this time around it seems to be the opposite. So I'm hoping I can just fine tune it and also get lucky with the tester.

The worst bit for me was when he mentioned that I should've passed the test no problem and that I'll have no issues next time around. I failed and I obviously deserved to fail otherwise I would've passed but I really do think some sort of feedback via email even would really help people who were close to passing but may have failed due to having too many grade 2s in a single sub-heading.

Have to wait 21 days now. Hopefully get it this side of 2017. Only one in work without one.

Galbin

It's actually very, very hard to get that balance right. Either you are too slow coming to a corner and thus get marks for progress or else you go too fast and they mark you down for not being "smooth".

Unfortunately, I think luck comes into it a lot. Hence, some people muck up the reverse around the corner and still pass while others who make the same mistakes pass. Personally it's my pet peeve when instructors/testers say to someone, "You can drive," or "You should have passed."

Alanstrainor

Galbin wrote: »

It's actually very, very hard to get that balance right. Either you are too slow coming to a corner and thus get marks for progress or else you go too fast and they mark you down for not being "smooth".

Unfortunately, I think luck comes into it a lot. Hence, some people muck up the reverse around the corner and still pass while others who make the same mistakes pass. Personally it's my pet peeve when instructors/testers say to someone, "You can drive," or "You should have passed."

There is a sweet spot. It takes practise and instruction, but it is something that you can learn. It is wrong to suggest that these things are luck based. They are definitely skill based. Now I'm not saying it is easy, but nonetheless I think too suggest certain parts of the test are all down to luck is wrong.

Galbin

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There is a sweet spot. It takes practise and instruction, but it is something that you can learn. It is wrong to suggest that these things are luck based. They are definitely skill based. Now I'm not saying it is easy, but nonetheless I think too suggest certain parts of the test are all down to luck is wrong.

Yes, they are. I can cite two examples of luck in the the reverse around the corner manoeuvre. My brother's childhood friend (who's always around our house, so I actually know him) hit the freakin' kerb and still passed. Then my instructor had a student who was great at everything, but for the life of her could not get the reverse around the corner move. On her test, she messed it up completely. At the end the tester passed her because she was so good at everything else. He told her that she was unable to reverse around the corner and that she should never do that move in real life. Most other testers would have given a Grade 3 for both those mistakes. This is where luck comes into it as both marked them down as Grade 2s.

Not sure why people want to insist the tests and testers are consistent. They are not.

dennyk

I was sloppy as hell on my reverse-around-the-corner and didn't get marked for it at all, though I did make all the observations properly and didn't hit the kerb, granted. Only got two Grade 2s on the whole test, both very early on, and no Grade 1s. I did already have a couple decades of driving experience, so maybe I was just up to whatever my tester's standards were, I guess, but there were definitely a couple more spots I'd probably have given myself a mark of some sort.

There's no doubt that the test is pretty subjective, though. There are guidelines for marking, of course, and some of the categories and faults are pretty objective (e.g. if you actually break any traffic laws), but others like progress, gear selection, or reaction to hazards are much more at the discretion of the tester, and no doubt some are more forgiving than others (and even more forgiving with certain testees than with others).

As for feedback, their policy to not provide specific feedback in most cases is most likely to prevent post-test arguments from happening; you just know that many failed testees would want to debate and quibble over every mark if they were allowed (and no doubt a few would even become seriously agitated in the process). That just wastes the tester's time, since it's not like they're going to reverse their judgement after the fact. Detailed feedback via email wouldn't really work either, as that would either mean the tester would have to sit there and type up a detailed report after every single test or try to remember all the pertinent details from each one of the dozen or so tests they'd conducted that day several hours later. Driving test waiting times are ridiculously long as it is; if you added a bunch of extra paperwork to a tester's daily routine, the queues would surely be hitting a year or more in short order.

Galbin

dennyk wrote: »

As for feedback, their policy to not provide specific feedback in most cases is most likely to prevent post-test arguments from happening; you just know that many failed testees would want to debate and quibble over every mark if they were allowed (and no doubt a few would even become seriously agitated in the process). That just wastes the tester's time, since it's not like they're going to reverse their judgement after the fact. Detailed feedback via email wouldn't really work either, as that would either mean the tester would have to sit there and type up a detailed report after every single test or try to remember all the pertinent details from each one of the dozen or so tests they'd conducted that day several hours later. Driving test waiting times are ridiculously long as it is; if you added a bunch of extra paperwork to a tester's daily routine, the queues would surely be hitting a year or more in sort order.

I have a real problem with this. We are paying €85 to do the test, which is a lot of money. Therefore, we should be entitled to detailed feedback. And if the testers don't like having to give the feedback verbally, then yes they should do it via e-mail. Quite frankly, given the job they do, they should be prepared to put up with negative feedback. As the saying goes, "Suck it up, Buttercup." Plus, if they had to do detailed feedback, the pass rate would probably increase as they could no longer justify failing people for silly reasons. Therefore, I am not sure waiting times would increase.

TallGlass

Fanboii wrote: »

Now, when I say too fast I was going under the speed limit on open roads.

Another case of the RSA testers implementing laws as they feel, when they should not be. If your under the speed limit then you are not speeding, simple as that. Maybe something else but that's not speeding, speeding is breaking the speed limit.

Sorry for the rant, but is someone going to bring these testers back down to earth from reading some of these threads they seem to be in world of there own implementing laws for which they have no legal power to implement.

Galbin

TallGlass wrote: »

Another case of the RSA testers implementing laws as they feel, when they should not be. If your under the speed limit then you are not speeding, simple as that. Maybe something else but that's not speeding, speeding is breaking the speed limit.

Sorry for the rant, but is someone going to bring these testers back down to earth from reading some of these threads they seem to be in world of there own implementing laws for which they have no legal power to implement.

No need to apologise for the rant. There is way too much respect for the testers and the testing process around here. It's a very broken system, and I am not sure why people want to pretend it's not. The current system only benefits two groups: the testers whose jobs are nice and secure with the high fail rates, and the instructors who are laughing all the way to the bank. The Australian test system for example is far superior. As is the English one.

If it were about safety then they'd be re-testing old people who are IME the most dangerous drivers on the road. The amount of times older people have puled out in front of me without looking to their left or right is dead scary. Taxi drivers are also freakin' dangerous. Yet I don't see either of those groups being targeted. I was warned about both groups before I started learning, but I was still surprised to see how dangerous both of these populations can be.

Such experiences also align with the latest research from the RSA that says people above 66 are one of the two groups with the most fatalities. If you want to read more, just look at their latest stats: http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads. I realise that young people are also one of the top two groups. However, many learner drivers are well above the age of 25. I am 37.

I Am_Not_Ice

I remember seeing a video where Judge Judy (go with me on this one) was talking about her time on the bench in New York's family court. She explained that when a camera crew contacted her and asked to come and film in her courtroom she said yes, her rationale being that she had nothing to hide about the way she did business, that closed courtrooms only foster bad judging, and only those judges who had something to hide kept their doors closed.
If you think about it, that same paradigm could be applied to the way in which driving tests are conducted, which at the moment are essentially black box examinations that are entirely hidden from public scrutiny; nobody besides the tester and the candidate ever knows what happens during any given driving test and the only record of the event is the written one provided by the tester.

This provokes the question: Why can't driving tests be videotaped? The camera doesn't lie and would provide an incontrovertible record of the entire event. In the case of a genuine fail a candidate would be able to see their shortcomings onscreen, whilst corrupt testers would no longer have the cloak of anonymity to hide behind.

Galbin

I Am_Not_Ice wrote: »

I remember seeing a video where Judge Judy (go with me on this one) was talking about her time on the bench in New York's family court. She explained that when a camera crew contacted her and asked to come and film in her courtroom she said yes, her rationale being that she had nothing to hide about the way she did business, that closed courtrooms only foster bad judging, and only those judges who had something to hide kept their doors closed.
If you think about it, that same paradigm could be applied to the way in which driving tests are conducted, which at the moment are essentially black box examinations that are entirely hidden from public scrutiny; nobody besides the tester and the candidate ever knows what happens during any given driving test and the only record of the event is the written one provided by the tester.

This provokes the question: Why can't driving tests be videotaped? The camera doesn't lie and would provide an incontrovertible record of the entire event. In the case of a genuine fail a candidate would be able to see their shortcomings onscreen, whilst corrupt testers would no longer have the cloak of anonymity to hide behind.

This has been debated here before, with most suggesting that it would be unfair on the testers. Yeah. :rolleyes: As I said above, they all make nice salaries, so should be prepared to suck it up. A videotaped test would be logical and help to reduce the huge bias involved in the test. It would also help those who genuinely failed see what they needed to work on. OTOH, it could make some learners even more nervous, and you'd need multiple cameras in the car. So there are two sides to it.

IMO, what really needs to change is the consistent discrepancy between test centres. It is not right that Ennis consistency has the highest pass rates every year, while Tallaght, Naas, and Churchtown are consistently in the lowest group. I understand Ennis is more rural, and the rest are in urban areas. However, this should not lead to such vast discrepancies between the two.