Unsuccessful - post here

jodyanne

Healio wrote: »

That is actually a very decent point. If you do go and pass it first time, your more likley to think to yourself "I'm a good driver", whereas those who don't go on learning and with our waiting lists, end up with more experience.

That's true, I've failed twice now but I'm such a better driver because of the lessons I've taken since the first one. If I had scraped through the first one (wasn't far off), I would never have got another lesson and would probably still be coasting around corners and not checking blind spots enough.

jedro

Artick89 wrote: »

I failed my test for the third time in Ballymun today. The SGS tester made me feel very relaxed and I drove as well as I've ever driven in a test but I ended up with 11 grade 2 errors.

Some of the grade 2 errors confused me. He gave me a grade 2 error for not executing the turnabout competently. I completed it in five turns. However, he said the road was wide enough for me to complete it in three turns. He said that I "did not use the full width of the road". He also said that he passed another candidate 3 weeks ago who completed the turnabout in three turns. This criteria is new to me. Is he right?

I got a grade 2 error for not parking competently. At the end of the test, I made a mess of parking the car; I parked it so that it was half in one parking space and half in another. He asked me if I wanted to park the car again and then I parked it properly. Is parking the car in the test centre parking space part of the test? I've always thought it wasn't so maybe I received the grade 2 error for parking I did by the side of roads before the turnabout or reversing around the corner.

He also said that I went too wide when reversing around the corner. I don't think I did.

I didn't challenge the tester's views; he probably would have ended the conversation as he is under no obligation to discuss test results with a candidate and I'm grateful he did. But as others have said here, some testers are more lenient than others.

sgs testers are very fair did you get a grade 3 for your reverse and you should be able to do a turnabout in 3 or 4 times 5 not great but take in what they told you as they are normally bang on . I found the testers in sgs finglas very good as my girlfriend did her test there failed first time but got it next time with the good feedback she got from the tester GOOD LUCK next time:)

Alanstrainor

jedro wrote: »

you should be able to do a turnabout in 3 or 4 times 5 not great but...

It's perfectly acceptable to do the turnabout in 5, provided it's necessary, if you can complete it in 3 then you should, if not then 5 is fine.
You can't do it in 4...unless you want to do the rest of your test in reverse!:pac:

bigpinkelephant

urban-angel1 wrote: »

Some of the most competent drivers I know got it on their 5th or 6th test and some of the 'less adequate' drivers I know got it in their 1st or 2nd time. So try not to let it get to you too much xx

5 or 6 tries to get a driving licence???
Honestly, there should be some sort of limit as to how many you can take.
A driving test is nothing more than what most of us do on a regular basis. Driving at 50kph around a housing estate, turning your car around, reversing around a corner without swerving out or hitting the kerb (if you have ever reversed out of a parking space in a busy supermarket without hitting another car, someone's shopping trolley or a child then this should be a piece of cake).

John Mason

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

5 or 6 tries to get a driving licence???
Honestly, there should be some sort of limit as to how many you can take.
A driving test is nothing more than what most of us do on a regular basis. Driving at 50kph around a housing estate, turning your car around, reversing around a corner without swerving out or hitting the kerb (if you have ever reversed out of a parking space in a busy supermarket without hitting another car, someone's shopping trolley or a child then this should be a piece of cake).

It would be wonderful if it was all that simple but nerves have a huge part to play. You can get the most competant driver ever but them in a driving test situation and will fail the test.

bigpinkelephant

irishbird wrote: »

It would be wonderful if it was all that simple but nerves have a huge part to play. You can get the most competant driver ever but them in a driving test situation and will fail the test.

You have a good point Irishbird but the thing is, we often have to drive when we are suffering from nerves or other emotions like being upset, being angry etc.
You might be very nervous e.g. driving to a college exam etc but you should still be able to drive there competently and safely.

How many of us have had to drive home after having a bad day in work, having a row with the boyfriend, etc. You should still be able to be safe on the road.

John Mason

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

You have a good point Irishbird but the thing is, we often have to drive when we are suffering from nerves or other emotions like being upset, being angry etc.
You might be very nervous e.g. driving to a college exam etc but you should still be able to drive there competently and safely.

How many of us have had to drive home after having a bad day in work, having a row with the boyfriend, etc. You should still be able to be safe on the road.

i totally agree with you but for example. I failed my test 2 years ago for tip the kerb on going around the corner, it wasnt a hard wollop just a tip, just happened because of nerves. i can reverse around the corner in sleep.

But that was an instant fail. Other then that there was nothing of any relavence on my report and i would have passed.

bigpinkelephant

irishbird wrote: »

i totally agree with you but for example. I failed my test 2 years ago for tip the kerb on going around the corner, it wasnt a hard wollop just a tip, just happened because of nerves. i can reverse around the corner in sleep.

But that was an instant fail. Other then that there was nothing of any relavence on my report and i would have passed.

Yeah but if you were, say, reversing out of a parking space- that tip could be against the car beside you- do you get what I am saying?
The reason why they test you on reversing around a corner is to see how good you are at manoeuvering your car within a small distance while remaining observant of everything around you. While no-one reverses around a corner very often, you need the same skills for it as you do for reversing out of or into your space in Tesco on a Saturday with kids and trolleys everywhere!

mrsberries

Have just failed in Tallaght SGS. Got a grade 3 for reaction to hazards :eek:
Dont even remember the incident which is totally worrying but fair enough. Was disappointed as felt the test had gone so well for the first half of it. I actually reversed arount the corner perfectly and the 3 point turn ( I couldnt do this last friday!!) I also got 2 grade 2s for not cancelling the indicator.

Ive just reapplied online there, so hoping for 3rd time lucky!!

kerry4sam

I am not long back now and it ain't good news ...

He asked was it my first provisional - YES ; Was it my first time doing the test - YES; and

then at the end He said i had essentially passed everything but because my progress wasn't great he couldn't allow me to pass overall. He said at ONE roundabout i had a chance to move on but i didn't and because of that i he couldn't allow me to pass this time :mad:

I answered all the roadsigns right ... I had all the technical checks right ... I answered everything from under the bonet right and because the traffic was so busy at this ONE roundabout where people were not indicating and i wasn't prepared to take the risk and move on he failed me

Savman

Don't let it bother ye, at least he was decent enough to explain when they don't have to say a word to you. Remember the technical checks and road sign knowledge etc is just a formality really, you can read a book and pass those bits. The same doesn't apply for the actual drive itself.

You were probably just borderline, just reapply and go again!

-aboutagirl-

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

5 or 6 tries to get a driving licence???
Honestly, there should be some sort of limit as to how many you can take.
A driving test is nothing more than what most of us do on a regular basis. Driving at 50kph around a housing estate, turning your car around, reversing around a corner without swerving out or hitting the kerb (if you have ever reversed out of a parking space in a busy supermarket without hitting another car, someone's shopping trolley or a child then this should be a piece of cake).

I see nothing wrong with having 5 or 6 attempts at passing the driving test. Different people have strengths in different areas and why should someone not be allowed to obtain a licence simply because driving skills do not come naturally to them or do not come as quickly. Also, luck is a huge component of any exam you ever do and things can just go against you on the day.

Wishbone Ash

-aboutagirl- wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with having 5 or 6 attempts at passing the driving test. Different people have strengths in different areas and why should someone not be allowed to obtain a licence simply because driving skills do not come naturally to them or do not come as quickly. Also, luck is a huge component of any exam you ever do and things can just go against you on the day.

But the driving test can't be compared to other exams as one is permitted to continue driving after having been deemed to be incompetent.

Let's suppose you wanted to become a bus driver. Would any bus company employ you and allow you out with passengers without having passed a relevant driving test?

-aboutagirl-

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But the driving test can't be compared to other exams as one is permitted to continue driving after having been deemed to be incompetent.

Let's suppose you wanted to become a bus driver. Would any bus company employ you and allow you out with passengers without having passed a relevant driving test?

Sorry I think you've entirely missed what I was trying to say. I was in no way implying that you should be allowed to drive unaccompanied (or drive a bus for that matter) without a licence but merely saying that there should be no cap on the number of times that you can take the test. I personally see no problem with allowing people to take the test as many times as they require before passing. I don't quite see how the bus driver analogy fits.

Wishbone Ash

-aboutagirl- wrote: »

Sorry I think you've entirely missed what I was trying to say. ..... .....................I personally see no problem with allowing people to take the test as many times as they require before passing. I don't quite see how the bus driver analogy fits.

You made the comparison with other examinations. I was merely pointing out that in other exams, where one can sit it many times, one may not avail of the fruits of the success until one has passed. It is theoretically possible for post 1964 motorists to spent their entire lives driving without having passed a test.

I have no objection to someone making several attempts to pass a driving test but I don't think it should be compared to other exams.

Alanstrainor

-aboutagirl- wrote: »

I see nothing wrong with having 5 or 6 attempts at passing the driving test. Different people have strengths in different areas and why should someone not be allowed to obtain a licence simply because driving skills do not come naturally to them or do not come as quickly. Also, luck is a huge component of any exam you ever do and things can just go against you on the day.

The test only covers the very basics of driving, and is very structured so anyone can learn how to drive under test conditions and pass. This whole mentality that it's the luck of the draw is completely wrong, if you can show yourself to be competent on the road for a brief time that is the irish driving test you will pass.
The fact is, that someone who takes more than 6 driving tests to finally pass a test cannot possibly be considered confident and safe enough to take on the more complex aspects of driving, such as motorway driving.

-aboutagirl-

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You made the comparison with other examinations. I was merely pointing out that in other exams, where one can sit it many times, one may not avail of the fruits of the success until one has passed. It is theoretically possible for post 1964 motorists to spent their entire lives driving without having passed a test.

I have no objection to someone making several attempts to pass a driving test but I don't think it should be compared to other exams.

The only comparison I made to other exams was that luck is sometimes an issue, that things can go well on the day or things can go badly??

To bring up a small section of society who have never passed the test isn't really relevant to the discussion, I had assumed we were talking about the current system, in which case the current driving test isn't really that different in any case. You can sit the Law Society exams and fail and you're not a qualified lawyer. You can sit the driving test and fail and you're still not a qualified driver. You fail Law, you can still study work as an intern. You fail the driving test you can still drive on a provisional. In my opinion you only see the fruits of success when you pass.

Anyway this has gone waaay off topic
All I really wanted to say was that people shouldn't be discouraged by remarks people have made saying that if you havn't passed by your fifth attempt that you shouldn't be entitled to try again. It doesn't matter how many tries it takes you should persevere

-aboutagirl-

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The test only covers the very basics of driving, and is very structured so anyone can learn how to drive under test conditions and pass. This whole mentality that it's the luck of the draw is completely wrong, if you can show yourself to be competent on the road for a brief time that is the irish driving test you will pass.
The fact is, that someone who takes more than 6 driving tests to finally pass a test cannot possibly be considered confident and safe enough to take on the more complex aspects of driving, such as motorway driving.

So if you pass on your 6th attempt your licence is of lesser value than someone who passes on on their first or second?! You've still reached the required standard, you hold the same qualification as the person who passed first time! The only difference was that it took you longer to learn.

The legal standard required is passing the test. Once you reach that standard the number of times you've failed before reaching it is irrelevant.

Healio

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The fact is, that someone who takes more than 6 driving tests to finally pass a test cannot possibly be considered confident and safe enough to take on the more complex aspects of driving, such as motorway driving.

I would also like to hear further justification of this.

Savman

Alanstrainor wrote: »

The fact is, that someone who takes more than 6 driving tests to finally pass a test cannot possibly be considered confident and safe enough to take on the more complex aspects of driving, such as motorway driving.

That's not a "fact", that's opinion and frankly it's ridiculous. There is nothing in the test about motorway driving and nor is it normally covered in Pretests by instructors either. This country assumes, when you pass a test that consists of no motorway driving, that you are then ok to go drive on a motorway.

Who decides this notion that after your 6th attempt at a test, if you pass then you are somehow not deemed worthy enough to share merit with other enlightened road users such as yourself?

And you're a moderator...:rolleyes:

jodyanne

Healio wrote: »

I would also like to hear further justification of this.

Me too.

I've already failed two tests. Driving doesn't make me nervous, tests do. When I finally get through a test without cracking up, I will consider myself just as good as any other driver who has passed it, even if it takes me multiple attempts.

Also, I've read comments from a few people who've said that finding it hard to pass the test because of nerves etc shows you're not a good driver - with the reasoning that we all have to drive when emotional or stressed at some stage. I disagree strongly with this. For me at least, the stress of a "test" is completely different to everyday stresses. And anyway, if I did feel that I wasn't safe to drive because of stress/emotions, I would leave the car at home or pull in and take a breather to calm down - safety first. Unfortunately, stress of the test is not avoidable in this way. The only time you ever "have to" continue to drive even though you're an emotional wreck is, yes, during a driving test

Alanstrainor

Okay fellas, i realise how stupid the last bit of that post was. My moderator hat fell off for one moment of craziness. Apologies.

Savman

Right so Ted.

Wishbone Ash

-aboutagirl- wrote: »

The only comparison I made to other exams was that luck is sometimes an issue, that things can go well on the day or things can go badly??

One can indeed by unlucky but if a full driving licence is part of the criterion for a job, a prospective employer is hardly going to alter the rules because one was unlucky.

aboutagirl wrote:

To bring up a small section of society who have never passed the test isn't really relevant to the discussion, I had assumed we were talking about the current system, in which case the current driving test isn't really that different in any case.

That is precisely why I said "post 1964" in my previous post. I was referring to the current system and didn't want to confuse it with the old system.

aboutagirl wrote:

You can sit the Law Society exams and fail and you're not a qualified lawyer. You can sit the driving test and fail and you're still not a qualified driver. You fail Law, you can still study work as an intern

That's not really a fair comparison. A person who fails the Law Society exams isn't sharing public roads with those who have been deemed to be competent.

In some careers, final examinations may be repeated twice only. After that it's a career change.

aboutagirl wrote:

It doesn't matter how many tries it takes you should persevere

The problem is that our current system facilitates those who put no effort into passing a test. There are thousands of people out there driving who put no effort into passing a test and just go through the motions.

3 of my work colleagues have been driving for many years without passing a test. One is on his 15th provisional Licence. He knows nothing about the ROTR and fails each test. He doesn't even try and goes in with the attitude that he is going to fail anyway. Another 2 girls there are hopeless on the road even though they have been 'driving' for years. They just point the car in the direction they are going and hope for the best.

In a previous post you asked why people should be denied a driving licence because skills do not come naturally to them. If skills do not come naturally to people after years of tuition and practise then I seriously doubt whether they should be permitted to share the roads with others. To use your previous analogy, someone who fails the Law Society examinations is unlikely to pose a danger to others but someone who has difficulty obtaining the skill associated with driving may put others at risk.

-aboutagirl- wrote: »

So if you pass on your 6th attempt your licence is of lesser value than someone who passes on on their first or second?! You've still reached the required standard, you hold the same qualification as the person who passed first time! The only difference was that it took you longer to learn

I have never critised anyone here because they have been driving on mutiple provisional licences. Indeed, I even put it in the Charter that individual criticism of those drivers is not permitted as it's perfectly legal.

I also make a point of congratulating those who post here having passed a test after multiple attempts. It's not easy to come onto a forum like this and admit passing after the 5th or 6th attempt. The fact that they frequent a forum like this demonstrates that they are interested and making an effort.

But, as a society promoting the message of road safety, we really need to ask if those, who make no effort to pass a test, should be permitted to continue to drive and share the public roads with others.

As has been said here many times, driving is not a right - it's a privilege.

bigpinkelephant

jodyanne wrote: »

Me too.

I've already failed two tests. Driving doesn't make me nervous, tests do. When I finally get through a test without cracking up, I will consider myself just as good as any other driver who has passed it, even if it takes me multiple attempts.

Also, I've read comments from a few people who've said that finding it hard to pass the test because of nerves etc shows you're not a good driver - with the reasoning that we all have to drive when emotional or stressed at some stage. I disagree strongly with this. For me at least, the stress of a "test" is completely different to everyday stresses. And anyway, if I did feel that I wasn't safe to drive because of stress/emotions, I would leave the car at home or pull in and take a breather to calm down - safety first. Unfortunately, stress of the test is not avoidable in this way. The only time you ever "have to" continue to drive even though you're an emotional wreck is, yes, during a driving test :(

You do realise that you can actually cancel a driving test?
You say that normally, if you felt you were not safe to drive because of nerves, you would not drive, but you have twice showed up to driving tests in such a state of "cracking up". Did you expect to pass?

Just because it is your driving test does not mean that "safety first" does not apply. You can crash your car or run someone over just as easily during your test as any other time.

Savman

I think the essence of the 'Learning to Drive' forum should remain a place where people can ask stupid questions without the regular high horse brigade jumping down their cyber throats, like on the main Motors board.

This could well be one of the better forums on boards so long as we all stick to that principle. Judging by the seemingly obvious nature of some of the questions asked, it really goes to show that the govt are failing badly in the area of Driver education.

I could never understand why they don't teach Driving as part of the education curriculum and get in people's heads from a young age...but wait, ain't no revenue is that is there :rolleyes:

sdanseo

Just failed (3rd time not lucky) in Raheny. Had it in the bag until the last 500m - at the big crossroads in the village turning right:

A van ,inexplicably, was sitting with his nose in the yellow box facing me, in the right-hand lane position but indicating left. Made no effort to move so I went to inch around trying to see oncoming traffic - tester got the impression I wasn't stopping and pulled the handbrake on me :eek:

Is this even allowed? Stupid behaviour really - not like I was going to drive out into a blind lane. Tits like that van shouldn't be allowed drive. I'm biased though, of course

Anyone else ever get the feeling of 'Agh I'm never going to pass this stupid thing' even though in the real world your driving is perfectly fine? Wish they could have CCTV continuous assesment

-aboutagirl-

Wishbone Ash - I have no idea why you keep insisting that I in some way have implied a person should be employed in a job that requires a licence when they have failed their test. I have never once said anything like that, seriously have no idea why this keeps coming up.

Yes I agree that the system has faciliatated people who have no intention of passing the test and who repeatedly allowed themselves to fail and apply for a new provisional. You seem to have this section of society in your mind in your posts which is perhaps why our opinions have been clashing. But when I made my original post it was not these people I had in mind rather people who have been genuinely trying to pass and for whom this has been a lengthy process. I was trying to offer encouragement to these people as there seemed to be a rather sneering and negative attitude from certain posters which was later even voiced by a mod. (although this opinion has since been retracted)

I have no idea how you managed to conclude from the three sentences of my original post that I somehow condone reckless drivers who have no interest in passing their test but continue to travel on the roads as though it is their God-given right. I now regret making the post to begin with (although I made it with nothing but good intentions) as you either seem to have totally misjudged what I was trying to say or did in fact realise what I was saying but were determined to twist and turn the conversation into something it was not intended to be.

Perhaps I should revise my original statement so that there can be doubts and that people can't cause arguements by jumping throught the gaps....

"I see nothing wrong with having 5 or 6 attempts at passing the driving test, provided you are making a genuine effort at passing each time and not just recklessly attempting to obtain a further provisional so that you can drive as though it was your God-given right. Different people have strengths in different areas and why should someone not be allowed to obtain a licence simply because driving skills do not come naturally to them or do not come as quickly. Also, luck is a huge component of any exam you ever do and things can just go against you on the day. This of course does not mean that bus drivers should still be employed on the basis that they only failed because of bad luck."

I think that this particular statement that you made seems to be the crux of your argument
"But, as a society promoting the message of road safety, we really need to ask if those, who make no effort to pass a test, should be permitted to continue to drive and share the public roads with others. "
However I fail to understand how you assumed through my posts that I in anyway disagree.

jodyanne

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

You do realise that you can actually cancel a driving test?
You say that normally, if you felt you were not safe to drive because of nerves, you would not drive, but you have twice showed up to driving tests in such a state of "cracking up". Did you expect to pass?

Just because it is your driving test does not mean that "safety first" does not apply. You can crash your car or run someone over just as easily during your test as any other time.

I think this is unfair.

Of course you can cancel the test but if you want to be a driver, you eventually have to do it. I showed up confident both times, hoping, if not expecting, that I would pass. I then let nerves get the better of me during the test. I didn't suddenly become an god-awful driver but, yes, I did then make a number of grade 2 errors. And I completely understand that such errors might have led to an accident if the circumstances were different - that's why they get marked.

I would have indeed preferred to stop driving when I started to get stressed and take a break to calm down but I can't see an examiner allowing that. I presume that would have been a definite fail and I was hoping I might just squeeze past and never have to sit the damn thing again.

Maybe I should park up outside a coffee shop on the next one and bring meself and himself in for a cuppa and a sticky bun while I chill out!

Alanstrainor

This thread seems to have spiralled out of control. Any chance we could keep it on topic? Thanks.