Nobody helped!!!

Dooom

I thought he said she was asian? Meh. Anyway, yes.

tallus

Well done OP. We need more upstanding citizens like you.

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote:

Give us Concealed Carry Permits for firearms and this sort of thing will stop rapidly.

in america (where this plan has completely eliminated crime of all kinds of course) you're something like 80% more likely to die of a gun-shot wound if you own a gun

edit:

with an increased likelihood of a gun being involved in the fight, a person is five times more likely to die as a result of the fight in the United States than in Australia

http://www.psrla.org/program_gun_violence.htm
not quite the same point but a valid one nonetheless


edit2: sort of the point

The safest homes are gun-free. Studies show that guns kept in the home for self-protection are 22 times more likely to kill a family member or friend than to kill an assailant in self-defense.

http://www.ncgv.org/kidsandguns_home.html

Ruu_Old

Credit where it is due, nice one OP.

kelle

I've just read about you in the Evening herald, OP. Fair play to you, you are a true hero . Like you indicated, if everybody just pulled together and stopped gangs of thieves in their tracks, they wouldn't be so brave about robbing people in public places knowing nobody will intervene. Thank goodness you were okay apart from your injuries. I was pleased to read the thieves dropped the wallet, so they didn't benefit from this theft. Well done, OP.

Tha Gopher

OP- out of curioisotry, of the people on the bus, how many were Irish, how many East European, and how many mainland W European?

Sorry, but tbh ive found W Europeans to be very non interviontist compared to ourselves and the Poles etc.

nobodythere

Degsy wrote:

Give us Concealed Carry Permits for firearms and this sort of thing will stop rapidly.

Why, would you defend someone from attackers who could legally carry a gun...

Victor

Degsy wrote:

Give us Concealed Carry Permits for firearms and this sort of thing will stop rapidly.

You mean as the bullet goes through the gouger and the 4 passengers beyond him?

jimi_t wrote:

Go on, throw a bit more cynicism and bravado in. You ever had a switchblade or syringe held up to you in a mugging? You ever even seen so much as an altercation where someone pulled a knife? It's not worth it, it just isn't. Nevermind your own safety, it's incredibly selfish to put the safety of others at stake. If it was assault or rape or similar that would be one thing, but getting Aids or being killed for the sake of money? Explain to me how it's worth it. It's not going to cure the problems of society - and whats going to happen to the OP if he bumps into any of that gang again in different circumstances. Stumbling down Leeson street some night after the pub, one of them happens to notice him - and thats that.

There is a thin blue line. If we don't help those in blue, that line breaks.

What if that purse contained medication tha the girl was dependant on?

The only way this kind of attitude will change is the instigation of a 'good samaritan' legislation similar to the one in Germany, whereby witnesses to a crime who don't look the other way are liable to get prosecuted.

Do you have this the wrong way around?

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The thing is, you consider yourself a big lad and still got fairly beat. If it wasnt for the off duty garda bt the sound of things you were ****ed. What can people really do?
A girl gets her purse stolen, thats bad. But me getting my throat slit or my teeth knocked out wont help her.

You can challenge the attacker verbally and tell them to "just leave" - it does work. Meanwhile you get people to trail them with mobile phones while you call the cops.

Orange69 wrote:

You have selected your facts in a very unbalanced manner, first off obviously there will be more gun related deaths in a country in which guns are freely available..

That just makes them more understnadable, not more acceptable? Would it be accpetable to you if say, 20 Irish people died of spoon related injuries last year (they didn't)? We'd be banning spoons.

patrickolee wrote:

All of them (or maybe any of them) didn't intend to kill him... but he ended up dead and they all ended up in a whole lot of trouble... that's more what I meant from the example

They mean to do him harm and in the eyes of the law, that is enough.

Bambi wrote:

there was a few Concerned-Parents-against-drugs type beatings that left people dead AFAIK

Surely you mean Concerned-IRA-members-wanting-to-control-their-patch?

spooiirt!!

Ive been in a similar situation ( in Germany) where some arab scummer was beating up a conductress outside the train cos he had no ticket. I tried talking him out of it but got a few digs for my trouble, then he called "people", more arabs and I was soon running like forrest gump.

Im no longer going to help anyone. If people want to have a multicultural germany, they can pay the price. I ,the big bad "racist" white oppressor of minorities and women will no longer help when the Turks and Arabs kick the crap out of defenceless girls, cos i know afterwards theyre still going to proudly march the streets with candles in support of multiculturalism and the full board welfare state.

GospelGroupie

In relation to the newspaper article reprinted courtesy of Gurramok: for the record, I have some issues with the journalism here!
1. I'm not an "IT expert", that's like calling a McDonalds employee a "chef";
2. I didn't get hit and bitten because I tried to return a purse to a fellow passenger, I got hit and bitten because she was being set upon by the gang outside the bus;
3. I never said "six youngsters", they are all around 18-20y.o. and that makes me sound like an old man calling them "youngsters", oh, and there were six or seven.... not too sure;
4. The guards know the identity of the foriegn girl, so hopefully she'll make a statement.
Other than that, everything else is pretty much as it was. I must admit, it does paint me out quite well, but the "good Samaritan" title doesn't sit particularily well with me.

I just can't wait for this to go to court, though.

GospelGroupie

Binomate wrote:

Here's a pretty accurate artists impression of the event I did in ms paint. I think it's pretty accurate.

Artist Impression.

Binomate, your artists impression is so close to what happened it's causing flashbacks all of a sudden. Although, I think you're being a little bit kind with the six-pack. Cheers though!

dregin

jimi_t wrote:

While I'm all for chivalry and bravery like that, what you did was nothing short of retarded.

I'm sorry, it's hard for me to say, but thats the truth.

What if one of them had pulled a knife or a syringe - very likely that they had a concealed weapon given that they were willing to steal a purse and then deny it on a crowded bus.

You were willing to put your own life and the life of at least three innocent bystanders at serious risk for what, some money? I mean, it really shouldn't have happened - especially in the way it did happen - and fair play for you for doing what you thought was right, but it really REALLY wasn't worth it.

Just my 2c

Location: The right side of the D6/D4 border

Sounds about right. Trust fund must come in useful when you're handing out money to ever scumbag that approaches you on the street.

Selfish prick.

SingingCherry

I don't know if this has been posted already but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

Lots of people saw and heard what was going on, but no one helped.

irishcrazyhorse

Amen to that, the same people that say you shouldnt get involved would be the same people that would be on the radio the next day after been robbed bitching about how noone helped them.
Many a time I have backed someone up who was been attacked,most of those times I have gotten punched/kicked countless times but I do like to think that the attackers taught twice before they robbed/attacked someone the next time.
Spineless isnt the word for our society at the moment...as long as we let gangs of lads and girls get away with it they will and I wont and never will let them push me around, they will always back down in the end.
I do understand that there is a great chance of been stabbed etc...but hey,so do thay,karmas a bitch.
And the law does allow you to defend yourself or others. if they punch you,you can hit them but you have to try and restrain them if possable

neuro-praxis

OP, you rock.

I think this starts in the playground: the kids who stand by while others get bullied (or join in for fear of being bullied themselves) grow into adults who refuse to help when others are in dire need.

Although I am a woman I always do my best to defend others (the most recent incident involved a group of 10 18-25 year olds racially abusing a Polish guy on his own on the 66 bus) but I am always left more shocked and sickened by the refusal of anyone else to help than by the sociopathic behaviour of the aggressors.

Choosing stand up for people always poses a risk and I try to be sensible - for example I'll call my husband or a strong male friend to meet me off the bus if I think I'll have trouble when I get off etc.

My husband will also defend others - at least three times he has physically put himself between a group of scumbags and women (non-nationals of course) getting physical and verbal abuse.

We just have to - we couldn't live with ourselves if we didn't show integrty when the chips were down.

OP, thanks a million for what you did. You're a regular modern day Bonhoeffer.

Degsy

grasshopa wrote:

Why, would you defend someone from attackers who could legally carry a gun...

In order to legally hold a gun you must be law-abiding.Why would a law abiding person use a legally held gun in the commison of a crime?

Slow Motion

Degsy wrote:

In order to legally hold a gun you must be law-abiding.Why would a law abiding person use a legally held gun in the commison of a crime?

That's a flawed argument to say the least ! Just because you haven't been convicted of a crime does not mean you are law abiding !

Degsy

Slow Motion wrote:

That's a flawed argument to say the least ! Just because you haven't been convicted of a crime does not mean you are law abiding !

Yeah right.Well if you legally hold a firearm and use it in the commision of an offence you're unlikely to be without a conviction for long.

cance

Regardless OP, you should be very proud. You did a very good thing.

BaZmO*

I've only ever been beaten up twice in my life, one time ending up in hospital with a broken cheekbone after being hit with a beer bottle.

Why did I get beaten up?
Because both times I tried to stop a fight from happening.

I'd do it again as it was friends that I was trying to protect but it does make you wary of helping complete strangers. I'd like to think that I'd still help though regardless of whether they were friends or strangers.

Slow Motion

Degsy wrote:

Yeah right.Well if you legally hold a firearm and use it in the commision of an offence you're unlikely to be without a conviction for long.

That's kind of my point ! Making it easy to own a firearm is not a road I would like to see us going down. Maybe the scumbags won't buy a gun but what's to stop said scumbag from breaking into a law abiding citizens house to steal a gun ?

Jumpy

Slow Motion wrote:

That's kind of my point ! Making it easy to own a firearm is not a road I would like to see us going down. Maybe the scumbags won't buy a gun but what's to stop said scumbag from breaking into a law abiding citizens house to steal a gun ?

a gun maybe?

AlmightyCushion

Jumpy wrote:

a gun maybe?

Slow Motion

Jumpy wrote:

a gun maybe?

Was waiting for that I suppose you could say you shot me with my own ammunition

AlmightyCushion

Binomate wrote:

Here's a pretty accurate artists impression of the event I did in ms paint. I think it's pretty accurate.

Artist Impression.

Ha ha ha brilliant.

miju

jimi_t wrote:

You ever had a switchblade or syringe held up to you in a mugging? You ever even seen so much as an altercation where someone pulled a knife?

yes first time was knife and afterwards swore if it ever happened again they wouldnt be succesful. second time it was a syringe and i took lumps out of the ****er and restrained him till the Gardai came.

is it any wonder you have kids petrol bombing cars with kids in them in limerick etc if kids see the scum in this country not being stood up to and being able to carry out crime "willy nilly"

jimi_t wrote:

Explain to me how it's worth it.

the 2nd guy with the syringe in my case later that month climbed into the back of a car punched a 6 year old girl in the face and held a syringe up to her in order to get money from her mother driving.

if the justice system was better , moved faster then he would have been done when i held him down and that child wouldnt have been subjected to that. he was obviously caught for it anyway (and jailed for two years) but the child had to go through the trauma in the process

thats why its worth it , its called common decency and concern for fellow man IMO and the above was one of my main motivating reasons for joining the Garda reserve as well to help do my bit for the community

Mr.Nice Guy

jimi_t wrote:

While I'm all for chivalry and bravery like that, what you did was nothing short of retarded.

I'm sorry, it's hard for me to say, but thats the truth.

What if one of them had pulled a knife or a syringe - very likely that they had a concealed weapon given that they were willing to steal a purse and then deny it on a crowded bus.

You were willing to put your own life and the life of at least three innocent bystanders at serious risk for what, some money? I mean, it really shouldn't have happened - especially in the way it did happen - and fair play for you for doing what you thought was right, but it really REALLY wasn't worth it.

Just my 2c

What the f*ck? It's this kind of 'I'm alright, Jack' attitude that has this country in such a mess.

Never hear the story about The Good Samaritan? Obviously not.

To the OP well done on standing up for what you believe in. A fine example in contrast to the cowardice shown by others on this thread.

Donald-Duck

Binomate wrote:

Here's a pretty accurate artists impression of the event I did in ms paint. I think it's pretty accurate.

Artist Impression.

Didnt see anyone else askign this but why has the girl got a boner?

thelordofcheese

i think she's meant to be:

A] fat
B] pregnant
or
C] A&B

Donald-Duck

thelordofcheese wrote:

i think she's meant to be:

A] fat
B] pregnant
or
C] A&B

That makes a lot more sense now actually, I thought it might be fat

Kersh

Fair play to ya, hope you got some real sly digs in,
I assume the off duty Garda will go witness, and put the little sh1te away........

Wacker

SingingCherry wrote:

I don't know if this has been posted already but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

Lots of people saw and heard what was going on, but no one helped.

Yep, beat you to it a while back. Shocking case.

cozmik

What about the poor Latvian guy who wound up dead after trying to rescue a stranger?

link was posted earlier in the thread.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/latvian-stabbed-to-death-.htmlnt-hardworking-family-man-692256.html


Sometimes it's the people who intervene that lose the most.

siochain

well done OP, fair play to you

Moojuice

Good call OP. I agree completely. You did the right thing calling the guards etc but when they got physical with her you had to step in. I feel the exact same way. If more people stood up to them or even shouted at them, scumbags would not feel as inclined to do these things. They know people will look the other way so they get away with it. Agaiin good going, I would have thought more people would have got involved once you did, but I guess people dont want to upset their nice, comfortable lives. If most of the bus had stood up or shouted at them they might have just left it instead of one person having to do everything. Welcome to Ireland, I'm-alright-so-**** -everyone-else is now the prevailing attitude.

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote:

In order to legally hold a gun you must be law-abiding.

but what about people who illegally hold guns? at the moment, burglars look for car keys in houses. what do you think they'll look for if there's a gun in every home?

Degsy wrote:

Yeah right.Well if you legally hold a firearm and use it in the commision of an offence you're unlikely to be without a conviction for long.

[sarcasm]yes indeed, that's why every gun murder that's ever taken place in the state has resulted in a conviction.[/sarcasm]

and even if that had happened, its too late at that point because somebody's already been killed because of irresponsible gun laws. i'd rather prevent the criminal (who was law abiding up to that point remember) from doing the crime than punish him after he's killed someone

Degsy

Commander Vimes wrote:

but what about people who illegally hold guns? at the moment, burglars look for car keys in houses. what do you think they'll look for if there's a gun in every home?

A bullet in the head perhaps?

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote:

A bullet in the head perhaps?

you can put a bullet in their head even when you're not at home? you must have long arms


or when they get in without waking you up and you only realise there's someone in your house when you wake up to find your own gun pointed at you? now that's talent


or when the burglar already has a gun that he stole from your neighbour who's out for the night and is off his head on cocaine and is shooting anything that moves and doesn't even notice that you've just shot him in the chest?

a bullet in the head would prevent the last one but its not like the movies. its quite difficult to get someone in the head especially when they're jumping around like a maniac

Degsy

Commander Vimes wrote:

you can put a bullet in their head even when you're not at home? you must have long arms


or when they get in without waking you up and you only realise there's someone in your house when you wake up to find your own gun pointed at you? now that's talent


or when the burglar already has a gun that he stole from your neighbour who's out for the night and is off his head on cocaine and is shooting anything that moves and doesn't even notice that you've just shot him in the chest?

a bullet in the head would prevent the last one but its not like the movies. its quite difficult to get someone in the head especially when they're jumping around like a maniac

Imagine all that..it must be terrible!

Dublin1983

i know this comes across a bit negative but u should keep out of other peoples arguments regardless if you consider yourself a "big Lad" & u got ur self by the sounds of it a nice little Hiding- heroes always seem to get knifed and killed. Stay out Stay Safe.

Sam Vimes

Degsy wrote:

Imagine all that..it must be terrible!

if you got your way with regard to gun laws we wouldn't have to imagine it

hullaballoo

I was mugged a couple of times when I was younger. I had a phone robbed on Bray main st., just outside McDonald's when I was 16. Some junkies came up to me and asked to use my phone. Naturally, I said, "no, you're alright" but was told "it wasn't a fcuking question". Now, for some reason I said "'Can I use your phone?' is a fcuking question." Silly move when you're 5'10" and slight (to say the least).

It wasn't long before there was a brief struggle over my phone and a syringe was pulled.

Now, I'd a group of about 12 mates with me before the junkies came up, but they were sensible enough to hide out in McD's until it was all over. I couldn't blame them, tbh. I was just a bit disappointed that they wouldn't identify the guy later that afternoon. The most amazing thing was that a Garda car drove by while all this was happening - was stopped at the lights for most of it - and then just drove on at the green light.

Degsy

hullaball&#250 wrote:

I was mugged a couple of times when I was younger. I had a phone robbed on Bray main st., just outside McDonald's when I was 16. Some junkies came up to me and asked to use my phone. Naturally, I said, "no, you're alright" but was told "it wasn't a fcuking question". Now, for some reason I said "'Can I use your phone?' is a fcuking question." Silly move when you're 5'10" and slight (to say the least).

It wasn't long before there was a brief struggle over my phone and a syringe was pulled.

Now, I'd a group of about 12 mates with me before the junkies came up, but they were sensible enough to hide out in McD's until it was all over. I couldn't blame them, tbh. I was just a bit disappointed that they wouldn't identify the guy later that afternoon. The most amazing thing was that a Garda car drove by while all this was happening - was stopped at the lights for most of it - and then just drove on at the green light.

Some mates you have.That toerag should've had his teeth kicked down his thoat,syringe or no syringe.BTW,the first exchange is crucial in a situation like this..if you say "no you're all right" or show any sign of weakness or friendliness they've immediatly marked you as a victim.If you say "**** off","get the **** away from me" or something similar they'll go away and find somebody easier.Even a deranged,long stare will usually do,the point is that these lowlifes will not usually victimise somebody who looks like they'll cause them trouble,preferring to go for the easy mark.

hullaballoo

Well, we were all 15-16. We were easy targets. I haven't had anyone bother me in the slightest since about 18 - you're right about the deranged stare. Works a treat. If they suspect you might go postal if attacked, they just leave you alone.

Trojan911

GospelGroupie wrote:

What I did should be the norm, nothing special. Why isn't it anymore?

Fair play to you for your actions, they were no doubt commendable. First off I will say that I have only come across this thread and don't have time to read all the replies, just the first page so my appologies if I have repeated anything. So here is my 2c's worth.

Most people are not acustomed to violent acts happening before them so they tend to stay back for fear of attack or retribution. That is the way society is today, Sad it is.

However, did you consider the possible consequences? Had a knife been pulled as you restrained this oik and you were stabbed as a result and then died.

You would have died for a piece of leather, a few bob and a stranger you never knew. Your family, partner, kids etc would be asking why as they carried your coffin to the grave. (I'm not suggesting you are married with kids but this applies to any would be hero). You have a duty to return home safe to your loved ones.

You have to accept that there will always be scum on the streets and crime will never be eradicated only controlled, you will only become another statistic I'll read about in the papers.

Your best bet in these circumstances are to witness, call Gardaí and then assist the victim afterwards. Leather is replacable, your life is not.

TJ911...

Degsy

Trojan911 wrote:

Fair play to you for your actions, they were no doubt commendable. First off I will say that I have only come across this thread and don't have time to read all the replies, just the first page so my appologies if I have repeated anything. So here is my 2c's worth.

Most people are not acustomed to violent acts happening before them so they tend to stay back for fear of attack or retribution. That is the way society is today, Sad it is.

However, did you consider the possible consequences? Had a knife been pulled as you restrained this oik and you were stabbed as a result and then died.

You would have died for a piece of leather, a few bob and a stranger you never knew. Your family, partner, kids etc would be asking why as they carried your coffin to the grave. (I'm not suggesting you are married with kids but this applies to any would be hero). You have a duty to return home safe to your loved ones.

You have to accept that there will always be scum on the streets and crime will never be eradicated only controlled, you will only become another statistic I'll read about in the papers.

Your best bet in these circumstances are to witness, call Gardaí and then assist the victim afterwards. Leather is replacable, your life is not.

TJ911...

There's an issue that nobody has touched on,that of psychological damage.Had that girl had her wallet stolen in front of a bus load of people and nobody helped she would have suffered much worse than the loss of her wallet.She would've played the scene over and over in her mind of being a lonely victim in a place full of people and not only was she singled out but none of her fellow travellers stopped to help.This is far worse than merely being mugged,the fact that somebody helped out would restore her(and other people's) faith in humanity and soften the blow a great deal.There is admittedly a very small chance of coming to harm in intervening in a sitiuation like this,but remember this wasnt a domestic argument between a scumbag and his girlfriend,this was scumbags stealing from a foreign visitor in a public place and should never be allowed to go unchallanged.Maybe the scumbag in question has done this before,maybe he hasnt,but i assure you he'll think twice about doing it again and the less of this sort of crap that happens the better.

Sangre

Degsy wrote:

There is admittedly a very small chance of coming to harm in intervening in a sitiuation like this.

I would think there is quite a high chance harm when intervening in a mugging (but a small chance of serious harm).

This doesn't apply to the OP but remember a lot of people might not intervene because they are not just putting their future on the line but also that of their wife's and kids'. Some people just can't take that risk.

Jumpy

I actually feel slightly ill at some of the replies in this thread.
Someone is in trouble = you help.

End of.

neuro-praxis

Jumpy wrote:

I actually feel slightly ill at some of the replies in this thread.
Someone is in trouble = you help.

End of.

Amen.

GospelGroupie

Trojan911 wrote:

Your best bet in these circumstances are to witness, call Gardaí and then assist the victim afterwards. Leather is replacable, your life is not.

As I had explained previously, when the first gouger ran out of the bus I was ok about letting him off and following from a safe distance, calling the Guards and getting them arrested that way. But that's not how it panned out.

The Spanish girl really wanted her purse back and would not let go of the gouger who had originally taken it. I think that was foolish. The rest of them jumped on her and were hitting and pushing her. That's the reason why I jumped in.... because she was getting attacked. I couldn't care less for a piece of leather, but who in their right mind could stand back while six or seven scumbags attacked a lone girl in her early 20's? I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt if anything serious came of it and I didn't step in to help her.