Nobody helped!!!

Trojan911

GospelGroupie wrote:

That's the reason why I jumped in.... because she was getting attacked. I couldn't care less for a piece of leather, but who in their right mind could stand back while six or seven scumbags attacked a lone girl in her early 20's? I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt if anything serious came of it and I didn't step in to help her.

And as I said, fair play to you for your actions, they were no doubt commendable. but the consequences could have been different.

Like this one in the UK http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20070525/tuk-man-shot-in-station-robbery-dba1618_1.html


I came across this website and it makes interesting reading as you scroll down to Pro Social Behaviour section and read on down.. http://www.oscail.ie/students/moduletext2007/IT/HS1%20PDF/HS1%20PDF/HS1%20unit%207.pdf

TJ911...

Trojan911

Degsy wrote:

There's an issue that nobody has touched on,that of psychological damage.Had that girl had her wallet stolen in front of a bus load of people and nobody helped she would have suffered much worse than the loss of her wallet.

I'm quite confident she would have gotten over it in time. What she might have never gotten over is the death of someone trying to save her piece of leather. That, I'm sure would she would've played the scene over and over in her mind.

Crime affects people in different ways, some people move on, some don't.

There was an incident in Cork a couple of years back where an off duty female officer intervened in a stabbing in a city centre cafe. Three men were fighting over an alledged debt, two were stabbed. She was sitting nearby with her baby and her elderly mother.

Hero? or stupid and selfish?

I would go for the latter as she was stupid to get involved without any back up or protection (no baton, cuffs, radio or colleagues) Selfish, as she put her baby and elderly mother in danger and also herself as she has a duty to rear that child. These three men didn't think twice about pulling large knives out in a busy cafe during the lunch trade and stabbing each other. Luckily she sustained no injuries.


TJ911...

Victor

Trojan911 wrote:

I'm quite confident she would have gotten over it in time. What she might have never gotten over is the death of someone trying to save her piece of leather. That, I'm sure would she would've played the scene over and over in her mind.

What of the other people on the bus and the lessons they would have learned?

Don't get involved.

Don't interact with strangers. Live in a big walled-in house and drive an SUV with blacked out windows.

Be immediately suspicious of people asking for help.

Is this the way we want society to act?

WindSock

I'd rather get a fist in the face in trying to help, than have to live with the guilt of being a useless bystander.

Beelzebub

Victor wrote:

What of the other people on the bus and the lessons they would have learned?

Don't get involved.

Don't interact with strangers. Live in a big walled-in house and drive an SUV with blacked out windows.

Be immediately suspicious of people asking for help.

Is this the way we want society to act?

'Society' is like this now.

Trojan911

Victor wrote:

Is this the way we want society to act?

That is the way it has gone, sadly...

TJ911...

faceman

it should be made illegal not to assist in a situation like that. therefore you can be arrested for not doing anything.

GospelGroupie

faceman wrote:

it should be made illegal not to assist in a situation like that. therefore you can be arrested for not doing anything.

As I understand it, it is an offence in France and Germany. I certainly think it would help, but moreso in Ireland where the Gardaí have discretionary powers, allowing them to weigh up the situations and determine whether to prosecute or not. It is clear that there are many reasons why somebody may not be inclined to "have-a-go". Family commitments, ill-health (physical or mental), previous experience, etc., may all be reasonable excuse for not helping out. Legislating on this may not be the best avenue to travel. As it is, the statute books are full of unenforced and unenforcible laws. I would not rush in to create another.

Instead, I would be more inclined to remove some of the deterrants. For me, for example, I will have a hospital bill from Beaumont, the taxi-fare home at 4am the following morning, loss of earnings for two days from work, loss of earnings for whatever days I must appear at court, etc. If I could simply gather these reciepts, bring them to the criminal court on the date of hearing and present them to the judge for the offenders to compensate, that would be something which I would appreciate. One shouldn't go out-of-pocket for helping out.

And one should not be at risk of criminal charge or civil liability for helping out if ones actions were reasonable to effect an arrest under Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act, 1997.

The common-law powers of arrest are provided under the Criminal Law Act, 1997, whereby:

"4.—(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.

(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.

(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.

(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section."

I've been thinking about this quite a bit over the past week and a bit at this stage.

Wompa1

I posted something pretty similar to this that happened on a bus I was travelling on. Two young lads started on a guy sitting beside me for being a foreign national, they started kicking his seat and taunting him so I stood up to them and told them to shut up etc. Anyways long story short...I got hit with something that was like a hammer, nobody else would help on a full bus...they threatened to crush my skull and I laughed so they told me to step off the bus for a fight which I agreed to then like the true pussys they were they decided to try and make nice and offered to shake my hand...I refused, got off at my stop and told the man beside me to move seat cus nobody would help him when I left...Towny b****ds!

Call Me Jimmy

Well done OP. I'm sure some people here would change their tune if they were getting their head kicked in, they'd love your help right about then.

To think that other generations of men fought wars yet most men nowadays wouldn't help a woman being attacked, tis scary.

Victor

GospelGroupie wrote:

Instead, I would be more inclined to remove some of the deterrants. For me, for example, I will have a hospital bill from Beaumont, the taxi-fare home at 4am the following morning, loss of earnings for two days from work, loss of earnings for whatever days I must appear at court, etc.

You will be entitled to witness expenses. I presume they are also being charged with assalting you, so you can also seek compensation.

cozmik

faceman wrote:

it should be made illegal not to assist in a situation like that. therefore you can be arrested for not doing anything.

Apply that thinking to this story,

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/latvian-stabbed-to-death-.htmlnt-hardworking-family-man-692256.html

Instead of the guy choosing to get invovled the law would now say he must step in.

He winds up dead while both the attackers and victim walk away.

I would have no problem with your suggested law change as long as citizens were allowed to carry and use a weapon against the scumbags if the situation became life threatening , however a person should not be expected to confront a gang of thugs unarmed and then just suffer the consequences.

Tar.Aldarion

I don't think I could restrain myself from stepping in to something like this, and have before. If everybody did it, people would hopefuly be more afraid to hassle people. I would not let the attacker get off lightly and I don't think people should, especially when there are a lot of bystanders around.

Call Me Jimmy

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I don't think I could restrain myself from stepping in to something like this, and have before. If everybody did it, people would hopefuly be more afraid to hassle people. I would not let the attacker get off lightly and I don't think people should, especially when there are a lot of bystanders around.

Good lad tar, and exactly right, if these guys thought there would be hassle every time they tried to rob someone's stuff/attack someone etc. then it wouldn't happen very often.

The way it is at the moment is that the scummers feel like they can walk up to someone in broad daylight, take their sh!t and basically walk away, and in most cases they can.

faceman

GospelGroupie wrote:

As I understand it, it is an offence in France and Germany. I certainly think it would help, but moreso in Ireland where the Gardaí have discretionary powers, allowing them to weigh up the situations and determine whether to prosecute or not.

thanks, i was pretty sure it was an offence in france but couldnt find a source to back me up.

faceman

cozmik wrote:

Apply that thinking to this story,

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/latvian-stabbed-to-death-.htmlnt-hardworking-family-man-692256.html

Instead of the guy choosing to get invovled the law would now say he must step in.

He winds up dead while both the attackers and victim walk away.

the shame of it, when someone just stands and lets it happen. They dont pick up the phone and call 999, they dont scream for help. they just stand there like planks. shameful.

Granted on rare occasion dire outcome could result as you have pointed out, but i just cant see how someone could just let it happen