Money = better education?

FunkZ

cson wrote:

"Money = Better Education?". Its not really a question, more of an answer.

Not really. I've spent three years in a public school and three years in three different private schools. The public school was great, two of the private schools were complete rubbish where I'm sure most of my classmates from there will fail. And the private school I went to for sixth was the best school I've been in.

So from experience, I don't agree with money equals better education.

cson

LazyFingers wrote:

And the private school I went to for sixth was the best school I've been in.

So from experience, I don't agree with money equals better education.

Somewhat contradictory.

FunkZ

Not when you take into account that also said:

LazyFingers wrote:

The public school was great, two of the private schools were complete rubbish

I think this shows that I meant a good school can be a good school with or without a fee.

microbiek

i think a proverb applies: you can bring a gorse to watr but you cant....

JC 2K3

lol, gorse.

microbiek

JC 2K3 wrote:

lol, gorse.

haha.....horse

Corruptedmorals

I don't know, it depends on the person really. The whole thing is skewed, because private schools reflect the average-good-excellent students. You won't find many poor students there. They don'f offer LCA, very few offer LCVP and pass classes only in Maths or Irish, generally. They tend to not accept students with learning disabilities either. Same with grind schools, €6000, and no extra-curricular stuff.

There doesn't tend to be a huge boost in results if someone does the Leaving in a public school, then does it in the Institute. My cousin did the Leaving in her public school, then twice in the Institute, each time only going up by 5 points. Then that Robert guy in the Times supplement 'HOW ROVERT GOT 600 POINTS WHEN HE REPEATED AT THE INSTITUTE', with the fact he got 570 in his public school in much smaller print..it's not as if he got 200 first time around..

The only advantage I see with private schools is that the options aren't in blocks, you can do what subjects you want. Facilites tend to not be falling apart blah blah blah and you're pretty much guaranteed good teachers. Which looks like a lot but mehh, I liked my public school.

microbiek

Corruptedmorals wrote:

I don't know, it depends on the person really. The whole thing is skewed, because private schools reflect the average-good-excellent students. You won't find many poor students there. They don'f offer LCA, very few offer LCVP and pass classes only in Maths or Irish, generally. They tend to not accept students with learning disabilities either. Same with grind schools, €6000, and no extra-curricular stuff.

There doesn't tend to be a huge boost in results if someone does the Leaving in a public school, then does it in the Institute. My cousin did the Leaving in her public school, then twice in the Institute, each time only going up by 5 points. Then that Robert guy in the Times supplement 'HOW ROVERT GOT 600 POINTS WHEN HE REPEATED AT THE INSTITUTE', with the fact he got 570 in his public school in much smaller print..it's not as if he got 200 first time around..

The only advantage I see with private schools is that the options aren't in blocks, you can do what subjects you want. Facilites tend to not be falling apart blah blah blah and you're pretty much guaranteed good teachers. Which looks like a lot but mehh, I liked my public school.

not guaranteed btw

JC 2K3

Corruptedmorals wrote:

They don'f offer LCA, very few offer LCVP and pass classes only in Maths or Irish, generally.

The only advantage I see with private schools is that the options aren't in blocks, you can do what subjects you want. Facilites tend to not be falling apart blah blah blah and you're pretty much guaranteed good teachers.

That's basically my school, and it's public(though our facilities were crap 4 years ago, since then we got a class new sports hall and new clasroom block).

My theory is basically: Gaelscoileanna = win.

Splinkk

I cant stand the whole grind school system. I hate the way people who leave in 6th year to go to the institute say, then come back to their previous school to sit the exams because its "convienient" coz they live just across the road.

A close friend of mine, who is slightly snobby in nature tried this. My principal though, can't stand the institute either, refuses anyone who tried to just saunter back in after them practically saying to him "Right, your school isnt good enough for me, byebye"

My friend was so annoyed about this, as, and I quote:
"I would have had such an advantage sitting my leaving cert there, as my paper would have shone, as Im coming from the outside and mine would be different"

Just a dumbed down version of saying "I paid 6 grand for this, so mines bound to be better"

My school is a public, non fee paying school. Last year, and years before, people got 600 and quite a few got 500 and over.
Money has nothing to do with it. Its the amount of work you do for it and your natural ability.

Another thing, those supplements in the paper a while ago, all about the institute really bothered me too, with their statistics of "The institute has the highest percentage of students in ireland going to third level education afterwards."

I mean. Of course it bloody does. Whose going to fork out 6 grand for the Leaving Cert then NOT go to college?

SamHamilton

Another thing, those supplements in the paper a while ago, all about the institute really bothered me too, with their statistics of "The institute has the highest percentage of students in ireland going to third level education afterwards."

Then there are the statistics (the ones that probably aren't real statistics but are all over the place!) that high numbers of students of the Institute end up dropping out of college because they're not being spoonfed which raises the point that:

Money can buy you a good LC but not a good education.

Corruptedmorals

Yeah exactly, and how they have the most people with 600 as well...of course they do, isn't there 2000 students and most schools have about 90? And none of those 2000 students are doing mostly Pass, and the ones that'll get 600 have been sent/wanted to go to the Institute to 'maximise' their chances of getting the 600, chances are they'd have gotten it in their public school..

xha1r

JC 2K3 wrote:

Fee paying schools don't provide a better education, they're just perceived as so.

I think also that schools in less advantaged areas have too low expectations of their students, who already have low expecations of themselves, and therefore they fail to bring out the best in them.

One of the main reasons parents send their children to private schools is that they have nothing else to spend their money on and would like to assert a sense of prestige.

Yes, they do. There's a big difference between teacher's in the Institute compared to some of those in your average public school, i.e., the proportion of quality teacher's in private schools is greater than that in public school's.

That last part is idiotic; they send them to private schools because they want them to receive the best education. I would say the majority of students in private school's come from middle-class families with parents who have above-average paying jobs and a house with a mortgage. Not all, in fact, not many parents are rich enough to "have nothing else to spend their money on".

Splinkk

xha1r wrote:

Yes, they do. There's a big difference between teacher's in the Institute compared to some of those in your average public school, i.e., the proportion of quality teacher's in private schools is greater than that in public school's.

How can you say that? Sure, there are some wonderful teachers in the institute, but Ive also heard of woaful ones. Same with a public school, youre going to have a few wonderful ones, and a few bad ones.
Its all the same course. Its the Leaving Cert. You dont get something extra special that the rest of us dont get, you just get "fantastic" notes spoonfed to you.

SamHamilton

you just get "fantastic" notes spoonfed to you.

.

cson

Were you gonna say something?

SamHamilton

Sorry, I thought it was obvious. He says that you just get fantastic notes spoonfed to you but that is quite a big point. It can mean a world of difference to a student. I'm not sure whether he was being sarcastic about how "fantastic" the notes were or whether he felt that word wasn't a great word to describe them but regardless of all that, spoonfeeding is an advantage (for the LC exam).

Setun

Well I've read this argument on boards a handful of times before (it surfaces in the LC forum at least bi-annually) so forgive me if I skip through the last three pages and repeat anything that may have already been said.

Money seems to provide better amenities, but it's up to the student to make good use of them. As far as a worldly education goes, rich parents will do sweet FA for you. Independence is key.

xha1r

Splinkk wrote:

How can you say that? Sure, there are some wonderful teachers in the institute, but Ive also heard of woaful ones. Same with a public school, youre going to have a few wonderful ones, and a few bad ones.
Its all the same course.

Well first of all, I go to the Institute, so I'm in a position to comment on the standard of teaching there. And as such, I can say that I haven't heard one person complain about a teacher; except once. That teacher subsequently "left" the school.

As for the course being the same argument; I can't think of a great metaphor, but a suitable one would be that of a car. Two cars will share similar components, all necessary to make that car function. It's how they're put together and the quality of those components that define the better car.

It's the same with the Leaving Cert course. How it is presented and the quality of the notes covering the course are what differentiate one school from another.

Splinkk wrote:

You dont get something extra special that the rest of us dont get, you just get "fantastic" notes spoonfed to you.

Those "fantastic" notes are that "something extra special."

cson

Daddio wrote:

Money seems to provide better amenities, but it's up to the student to make good use of them. As far as a worldly education goes, rich parents will do sweet FA for you. Independence is key.

Having the rich parent safety net cant be good for your motivation though. I suppose you can console yourself with the fact that if the LC all goes balls up then you can make a nice living out of Daddys estate/business.

Having said that I'm sure there are a number of parents out there that take out loans etc in order to send their kids to fee paying schools.

genericgoon

Also think about the people who go to the institute. People dont go to the institute just for the craic of it. They go to do well in exams. Therefore the results will be skewed as the usual quota of lazy people who dont care about the LC wont be at the places like the institute

cson

xha1r wrote:

Well first of all, I go to the Institute, so I'm in a position to comment on the standard of teaching there. And as such, I can say that I haven't heard one person complain about a teacher; except once. That teacher subsequently "left" the school.

As for the course being the same argument; I can't think of a great metaphor, but a suitable one would be that of a car. Two cars will share similar components, all necessary to make that car function. It's how they're put together and the quality of those components that define the better car.

It's the same with the Leaving Cert course. How it is presented and the quality of the notes covering the course are what differentiate one school from another.



Those "fantastic" notes are that "something extra special."

Which theoretically means that the institute is academically better than your normal public school. Somewhat proving the original question right that money does indeed equal a better 'education'.

Personally I don't agree, money may equal a better leaving cert but if you want a proper education look no further than a public school imo.

thefinalstage

As my english teacher use to say to me.

"The institute is a crutch for people who are really nervous about the exam and cannot stand on their own."

xha1r

thelastangryman wrote:

As my english teacher use to say to me.

"The institute is a crutch for people who are really nervous about the exam and cannot stand on their own."

You're English teacher is a tool.

genericgoon wrote:

Also think about the people who go to the institute. People dont go to the institute just for the craic of it. They go to do well in exams. Therefore the results will be skewed as the usual quota of lazy people who dont care about the LC wont be at the places like the institute

That's not true. A lot of people go to the Institute because of the freedom it offers the student, their friends going there and because of it's higher social class reputation.

There were more wasters in the Institute than I could believe.

cson wrote:

Which theoretically means that the institute is academically better than your normal public school. Somewhat proving the original question right that money does indeed equal a better 'education'.

Personally I don't agree, money may equal a better leaving cert but if you want a proper education look no further than a public school imo.

What's your definition of education? Social skills, etc? That's a pretty hard area to go into and come out of with a correct answer. I think social skills are more dependent on the person that the school environment. A lot of the life skills one learns, or things that affect the development of those skills come from primary school and their parents; I don't think secondary school or third level would change a person to that different a degree.

Of course you may not have meant social skills but whatev.

cson

xha1r wrote:

A lot of people go to the Institute because of the freedom it offers the student

Steve01

thelastangryman wrote:

"people who are really nervous about the exam and cannot stand on their own."

I prefer the term 'grind whores' myself

cson

Steve01 wrote:

I prefer the term 'grind whores' myself

Lol. +1

SamHamilton

Starting to sense a hint of bitterness here he he he:

I prefer the term 'grind whores' myself

is this jealousy in disguise suggesting that, if you had the chance, you'd go?

cson

SamHamilton wrote:

if you had the chance, you'd go?

And more or less abandon any friends you had or semblance of normality?

Edit: Spelling corrected, courtesy of xh1er for kindly pointing it out.

xha1r

cson wrote:

Yes?