Why no young Catholics in Ireland

BrianCalgary

Sleepy wrote:

I'm also very skeptical of the notion that a lack of religion is in any way responsible for the high levels of suicide we do have. IMHO, the suicide rate amongst young men in particular is driven by the pressure to succeed and the lack of a defined role for men in modern society (in the sense that for most of us our fathers/grandfathers had the set role of family breadwinner which doesn't exist any more).

And if they were Christian their view would be quite different. As success in Christianity is measured by your relationship to God and then your relationship to others.

As far as society goes I am a failure. Yet when I arrive at my boys soccer game last night and the girls team before us, who I used to coach, and I get hugs from a couple of the gals, I think; in God's eye I'm a success.

If the suicide commiters had been Christian and involved in a healthy well-balanced church they would have realised that they were a success, supported and still be alive.

Sleepy

I hear what you're saying Tim and agree with it to an extent, I suppose my faith in humanity just tells me that we're strong enough not to need such a crutch.

Brian, that's an interesting perspective and this is perhaps a bit of a tangent, though what would stop a non-Christian from seeing themselves as a success for the same thing? Personally I'm not a rich or "successful" man and I'm agnostic but I can still see myself as a success in that I'm a relatively nice guy, don't harm others, do my bit in terms of volunteering etc. and am surrounded by good people who I'm proud to say regard me as a good friend.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why one needs a church or a faith to be supported by those around them or to see that success isn't measured by one's bank balance.

Spyral

so every miracle or instance of the stigmata was a fake or pychological trauma or something ?


Additionally the church has never changed what is dogma, similar to gravity it is taken to be true and in no need of changing.

Additionally have you ever seen gravity ? I doubt it, but you may have seen it work on things and it works on you a little bit weather you like it or not. However for gravity to fully work one must throw themselves out of a plane or jump off a building. Similarly with God we must allow him to work through us.

philologos

BrianCalgary wrote:

And if they were Christian their view would be quite different. As success in Christianity is measured by your relationship to God and then your relationship to others.

As far as society goes I am a failure. Yet when I arrive at my boys soccer game last night and the girls team before us, who I used to coach, and I get hugs from a couple of the gals, I think; in God's eye I'm a success.

If the suicide commiters had been Christian and involved in a healthy well-balanced church they would have realised that they were a success, supported and still be alive.

This is so true I find that Christianity strengthens people who wouldn't have been so strong and confident in themselves without it. Society can be very destructive, and what others can say about you can be destructive. But if you can confide in a God, or if you have Him to help you understand how you are just as perfect or just as good as anyone else, you can still be a success. It also helps people to understand that everyone has failings, and that we can only do the best we can not to make crucial mistakes. That's how I see it anyway. At times society can't be trusted, but God can.

mossieh

BrianCalgary wrote:

If the suicide commiters had been Christian and involved in a healthy well-balanced church they would have realised that they were a success, supported and still be alive.

What nonsense. It makes no allowance for things like clinical depression or any other chemical imbalance that might affect mood or outlook. Have no devout christians ever committed suicide? Ever? Give me a break.

michaelanthony

Sleepy wrote:

I'm also very skeptical of the notion that a lack of religion is in any way responsible for the high levels of suicide we do have. IMHO, the suicide rate amongst young men in particular is driven by the pressure to succeed and the lack of a defined role for men in modern society (in the sense that for most of us our fathers/grandfathers had the set role of family breadwinner which doesn't exist any more).

I don't think that the suicide rate amongst young men in particular is driven by the pressure to succeed and the lack of a defined role for men in modern society .

I think it is because young men are not valued by society and are demonised to an extent.

Tim Robbins

BrianCalgary wrote:

And if they were Christian their view would be quite different. As success in Christianity is measured by your relationship to God and then your relationship to others.

As far as society goes I am a failure. Yet when I arrive at my boys soccer game last night and the girls team before us, who I used to coach, and I get hugs from a couple of the gals, I think; in God's eye I'm a success.

If the suicide commiters had been Christian and involved in a healthy well-balanced church they would have realised that they were a success, supported and still be alive.

I don't think you are a failure. You are being a bit harsh on yourself.

Acid_Violet

Cos Catholicism is ghey! Lool.

No, on a serious note I think every society has some binding force, whether it's trying to survive a famine or a genocide, trying to expand the third reich, trying to extend our knowledge or something like that, and this generation and society's main binding force is consumerism. Of course, this is just a very vague deduction, going into it in detail should be reserved for a doctorate thesis or something or the other......

mossieh

Tim Robbins wrote:

In which case you are beginning to look like you are contradicting yourself and sounding immature and foolish.

I think the phrase is 'attack the post, not the poster'. I understood the points he was making as I suspect did you, it seems to me you only detracted from his terminology as opposed to the points themselves. His choice of words may not have been ideal but the points he made are worth addressing imho.

geminilady

im a young catholic, there is young catholics in today's society

PDN

Tim Robbins wrote:

I think judging by the increase in the amount of suicides, homicides though one could make an argument that people are finding reality without religion a difficult excercise.

I would prefer people move from one religion to another, a religion to reform or people to accept and enjoy reality without religion rather than to be left in a situation when they have no tools to deal with harder aspect of life.

Tim, I find that very interesting. I am currently reading I Sold My soul on eBay by Hemant Mehta. Hemant, a leader in the Secular Student Alliance, agreed, in return for a bid of $504, to attend a series of churches and report on what attracted or repelled him. His reflections have been published by a Christian publisher together with a study guide written by a Christian pastor.

In his Introduction Hemant tackles the question of why, as an atheist, he should be involved in producing a book designed to promote beliefs contrary to his own:

My purpose in writing this book is not to convince you of the wrongness of your belief and the rightness of mine. I don't expect to create any new atheists. But I do think religion/nonreligion is a significant issue that deserves our careful attention. If people are turned off by the confrontational attitude prevalent in many churches, they may be turned off to all religion. If this happens, atheism would be ignored as well. (This isn't to say atheism is a religion, but it is a belief system, and like religion, it requires a large measure of introspection.) Mounting controversy over religious differences could lead people to simply ignore religion, which could prevent them from seeking the truth that could lead to a fuller life. Apathy and indifference affect me - as a leader of an atheist group - as much as they affect you as a committed Christian.

Again, Mehta says:

I'm aware of the good that churches can do. Churches can enrich people's lives in ways that everyone, including atheists, can support. Why would anyone oppose something that helps people live the best life possible?

You may wonder: If he is serious about what he's saying, then why is he an atheist? Wouldn't it be disadvantageous to the atheist community if more people went to church? Hardly. Yes, many church teachings conflict with atheists' beliefs, but no one can dispute a church's powerful potential to sustain a positive impact on a community. Atheists actually support many of the same values churches espouse. For example, we share the Christian ideal for people to live a moral, ethical life, even though we might have differences regarding where those boundaries are drawn. If people are going through problems, we also want to lift their spirits. And even though I'm an atheist, I believe churches accomplish this better than any other organization or institution.

Tim Robbins

PDN wrote:

Tim, I find that very interesting. I am currently reading I Sold My soul on eBay by Hemant Mehta. Hemant, a leader in the Secular Student Alliance, agreed, in return for a bid of $504, to attend a series of churches and report on what attracted or repelled him. His reflections have been published by a Christian publisher together with a study guide written by a Christian pastor.

In his Introduction Hemant tackles the question of why, as an atheist, he should be involved in producing a book designed to promote beliefs contrary to his own:

Again, Mehta says:

Sounds very interesting, it seems he is advocating a more liberal form of atheism one I would incline towards myself. Another book to add to the reading list!

Just picked this one up on the way home:
"Lost Scripture, books that did not make the New Testament". Bart D. Ehrman.

Colin McGinn has this "cosmic loneliness" argument as to why people turn to religion. He suggests that part of one's conciousness is completly isolated.
For example, at one moment in time, nobody else knows exactly what you are thinking. They can make a guess what you are thinking by looking at you facial expressions etc but they don't know for certain what is going on your conciousness. Your conciousness is on it's own.

For some people, this isolated part of conciousness is a very lonely experience. God (whether he exists or not) gives people a feeling they are not on their own for he can see deeper into your mind than you can yourself.

It's about six minutes in here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWTQVUFb5O0&mode=related&search=

If it is correct that cosmic lonliness is a sort of pain for some people, well then I can't see anything to replace it but a faith / religion / a belief in God.

BrianCalgary

Sleepy wrote:

I hear what you're saying Tim and agree with it to an extent, I suppose my faith in humanity just tells me that we're strong enough not to need such a crutch.

Brian, that's an interesting perspective and this is perhaps a bit of a tangent, though what would stop a non-Christian from seeing themselves as a success for the same thing? Personally I'm not a rich or "successful" man and I'm agnostic but I can still see myself as a success in that I'm a relatively nice guy, don't harm others, do my bit in terms of volunteering etc. and am surrounded by good people who I'm proud to say regard me as a good friend.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't see why one needs a church or a faith to be supported by those around them or to see that success isn't measured by one's bank balance.

As a clarifiaction, the worlds measure of success is material wealth. There are those that can get so caught up in it and see themselves as failures. With a different perspective you can be successfull in so many other ways.

Christianity teaches that success is serving others by serving God.

BrianCalgary

Tim Robbins wrote:

I don't think you are a failure. You are being a bit harsh on yourself.

Aww, thanks. But by North American societies measure I am a failure. By Guatemala measure I'm a financial success.

yet none of that matters. All that matters is am I success by God's standard?

BrianCalgary

just deleted a whole swack of posts that went into th egenre of arguing science and the scientific method. The OP is asking about Young Catholics staying away from church.

Keep on track folks.:)

Asiaprod

Thanks Brian, just woke up over here in Japan.

Tim Robbins

BrianCalgary wrote:

just deleted a whole swack of posts that went into th egenre of arguing science and the scientific method. The OP is asking about Young Catholics staying away from church.

Keep on track folks.:)

Fair enough Brian, you're the mod. But I know many Catholics who feel Science has usurped Religion / Faith whereas many people feel this is not the case. Perhaps it did have some relevance.

philologos

Tim Robbins wrote:

I really like the way Buddhism includes atheists and agnostics, I would like to see Christianity and Catholism go down this road perhaps by separting the supernatural element from the philosophy.

My fear is if humans don't get basic needs, they get depressed. Sometime this basic needs are harder to see.

It's hard to seperate the supernatural element from the philosophy as the philosophy depends on the supernatural element. God is what we are all about and it might be nice for some to take him out of the picture but He has to be there.

Tim Robbins

Jakkass wrote:

It's hard to seperate the supernatural element from the philosophy as the philosophy depends on the supernatural element. God is what we are all about and it might be nice for some to take him out of the picture but He has to be there.

I disagree. Some of the philosophy is in other belief systems.
For example the Golden Rule, which was in Confucius before it was in Christianity.
I think you are speaking for your own brand of Christianity which is possibly more inflexible than others.

Arathorn

I for one am encouraged by the fact that young people are not going to mass, the teachings just dont match up with todays way of life. Young people like to have sex before marriage, like to use contraception, they have gay family members or friends who they dont believe are going to hell. People dont want a guilt trip every sunday and rightly so.

Fallen Seraph

Tim Robbins wrote:

I disagree. Some of the philosophy is in other belief systems.
For example the Golden Rule, which was in Confucius before it was in Christianity.
I think you are speaking for your own brand of Christianity which is possibly more inflexible than others.

For an overwhelming majority (I don't say all; but I can't think of a counter-example off the top of my head) of religions and philosophies if you take away the metaphysics you're just left with a husk of baseless morals which are all remarkably similar. With buddhism; if you take away the supernatural element it's only technically buddhism, because of the buddha's "take what is useful" statement, otherwise it's just a lot of very sound advice.

Sleepy

BrianCalgary wrote:

As a clarifiaction, the worlds measure of success is material wealth. There are those that can get so caught up in it and see themselves as failures. With a different perspective you can be successfull in so many other ways.

Christianity teaches that success is serving others by serving God.

In fairness Brian, that's a pretty narrow view of the world's population. As a generalisation it may stand up, but only just. I for one, certainly don't judge success in financial terms and it wasn't Christianity that taught me to view it otherwise.

Success is as subjective as beauty or truth imho.

colm-ccfc84

Because young people are more intelligent. We can see religion for what it is: a malevolent, hate insiting, divisive, murder provoking, abusing, virus of the mind. Long may it continue.

kelly1

Arathorn wrote:

I for one am encouraged by the fact that young people are not going to mass, the teachings just dont match up with todays way of life. Young people like to have sex before marriage, like to use contraception, they have gay family members or friends who they dont believe are going to hell. People dont want a guilt trip every sunday and rightly so.

Arathorn, that is exactly what's wrong with the world! People who go against God's will are like children who refuse to listen to the good advice of their parents. We are told as children not to play with knives and of course those children who ignore this advice end up getting cut or worse. God didn't give us the commandments because He's a spoil-sport. He gave us the commandments for our own good. God in His goodness wants nothing but our eternal happiness with Him. He has promised eternal joy to those who love Him. Our sole concern should be with doing God's will and to go against God's will is insanity.
Sin brings punishment in this life, in Purgatory and God forbid, in Hell.

So how exactly are you encouraged that people are going against God?

God bless,
Noel.

kelly1

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

Because young people are more intelligent. We can see religion for what it is: a malevolent, hate insiting, divisive, murder provoking, abusing, virus of the mind. Long may it continue.

Colm, true religion is none of these things. It is a holy relationship with God and our neighbour. People who incite hate, cause division, provoke murder etc cannot claim to love God or neighbour.

If this is your idea of religion, no wonder you hate it!

God bless,
Noel.

Owen

kelly1 wrote:

Arathorn, that is exactly what's wrong with the world! People who go against God's will are like children who refuse to listen to the good advice of their parents.

That's because it's not God's will. God says to love thy neighbour, but yet the Catholic Church condems gay/lesbian/transgender people to hell. God hasn't really spoken since Jesus (If you believe he did in the first place that is), so Condom's being a recent invention are out of favour for the Church simply because the Church says so.

What's wrong with the Catholic Church, and what keeps young people away (Apart from the fairy tales that you insist we believe), is backwards, bigotted (And that's not meant as a personal attack, just an observation) attitudes like yours Noel.

kelly1

ned78 wrote:

That's because it's not God's will. God says to love thy neighbour, but yet the Catholic Church condems gay/lesbian/transgender people to hell. God hasn't really spoken since Jesus (If you believe he did in the first place that is), so Condom's being a recent invention are out of favour for the Church simply because the Church says so.

What's wrong with the Catholic Church, and what keeps young people away (Apart from the fairy tales that you insist we believe), is backwards, bigotted (And that's not meant as a personal attack, just an observation) attitudes like yours Noel.

The gloves are off now, I see!

The Church does not condemn anyone to Hell. That's God's prerogative. The Church teaches that homosexual ACTS are sinful. The Church teaches that we must love the sinner and hate the sin. Anyone who hates homesexuals can't call themselves a follower of Christ.

As regards condoms, the Church doesn't just condemn the use of condoms, it condemns the use of all contraceptives. It teaches that the sexual act and the procreative act must never be separated. Therefore contraception is wrong as is artificial fertilization.

I'll ignore your silly comment about fairy tales.

God bless you!
Noel.

Owen

Here you say :

kelly1 wrote:

The Church does not condemn anyone to Hell.

But here you say :

kelly1 wrote:

Sin brings punishment in this life, in Purgatory and God forbid, in Hell.

kelly1 wrote:

As regards condoms, the Church doesn't just condemn the use of condoms, it condemns the use of all contraceptives. It teaches that the sexual act and the procreative act must never be separated. Therefore contraception is wrong as is artificial fertilization.

Oh good grief. Now artificial fertilization is wrong too? What about couples having difficulty pro-creating? Are you to be the one to tell them they can't have Children because some man in Rome decided it based on his interpretation of a book full of contradictions?

There is nothing wrong with enjoying the act of Sex. No matter what any priest says. My significant other and I enjoy sex outside of marriage, and I have enjoyed it with many other partners too. It's the only way to find out if you're truly compatible with someone before settling down with them. And if you don't agree, I'd poll the majority of young Catholics getting married today. I'd say there's a fair chance they've all had sex before marriage too, and used *gasp* contraception.

kelly1 wrote:

I'll ignore your silly comment about fairy tales.

As all Catholics do when questioned about the farsical stories like Noah being 600, and somehow constructing an ark the size of country Cork from wood, providing sanitation for millions of species, food, segregating the animals so they don't consume one another, and somehow preventing the degenerative dna breakdowns which occur when you only have 1 pair of adults to procreate - leading to a lack of diversity in genes. And many many other stories like this too.

kelly1 wrote:

God bless you!

Actually, I'd prefer if he didn't, but thanks all the same.

kelly1

ned78 wrote:

Here you say : "The Church does not condemn anyone to Hell"

But here you say : "Sin brings punishment in this life, in Purgatory and God forbid, in Hell"

There's no contradiction here. The Church doesn't decide who's condemned, God does. The Church infallibly teaches that those who die in a state of mortal sin go to Hell but only God knows who dies in this state.

ned78 wrote:

Oh good grief. Now artificial fertilization is wrong too?

As with all sin, there are negative consequences. Artificial fertilization usually results in multiple foetuses most of which aren't implanted in the womb. The rest are destroyed or used for experimentation.

ned78 wrote:

As all Catholics do when questioned about the farsical stories like Noah being 600, and somehow constructing an ark the size of country Cork from wood, providing sanitation for millions of species, food, segregating the animals so they don't consume one another, and somehow preventing the degenerative dna breakdowns which occur when you only have 1 pair of adults to procreate - leading to a lack of diversity in genes. And many many other stories like this too.

None of these are articles of faith and so are not required to be believed.

May you live long and prosper.

Noel.

Arathorn

Just accept the fact that not everyone believes what you believe and stop forcing your opinions on others. There are so many religions in the world ye can't all be right.

PDN

Arathorn wrote:

Just accept the fact that not everyone believes what you believe and stop forcing your opinions on others. There are so many religions in the world ye can't all be right.

All I see here is people stating their beliefs on a message board. Who is "forcing their opinions on others"?

kelly1

Arathorn wrote:

Just accept the fact that not everyone believes what you believe and stop forcing your opinions on others. There are so many religions in the world ye can't all be right.

I do accept this fact and I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. This is discussion forum isn't it??

I agree all religions can't be right. They all contradict each other. They're either all wrong or one is right. I don't believe for a minute that God would allow us to wander aimlessly in the wilderness without a true Church to guide us. Personally I choose to believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Having accepted that, I believe he founded a Church on the apostle Peter and that the same Church exists to this day. Christ preached love and self-sacrifice like no other. He died on a cross to save us and prayed for those who crucified him. He practiced what He preached.

God bless,
Noel.

Sangre

kelly1 wrote:

As with all sin, there are negative consequences. Artificial fertilization usually results in multiple foetuses most of which aren't implanted in the womb. The rest are destroyed or used for experimentation.

I think you should check your definition of foetuses.

Zombrex

kelly1 wrote:

The Church does not condemn anyone to Hell. That's God's prerogative. The Church teaches that homosexual ACTS are sinful. The Church teaches that we must love the sinner and hate the sin. Anyone who hates homesexuals can't call themselves a follower of Christ.

Well I think that more and more people are decided that either

1 - Jesus/God wouldn't actually hate homosexuals or see what they do as a sinful act since it is an act of love just like heterosexual sex, and the reason this is in the religion is because of homophobic men.

2 - If Jesus/God actually does hate homosexuals and decided that what they do is sinful, then they don't want to follow that god (or most likely they see that god as being a ridiculous paradox, a god of love that hates 1 in 10 people for no good reason, and therefore unlikely to exist)

And before you say "God doesn't hate homosexuals" a lot of people would seem to disagree, since He decided to not allow them to have sex for apparently no good reason.

To some people of course that doesn't make any sense (why would God stop homosexuals having sex or getting married?), and the more logical explanation is that He doesn't and the religion has been manipulated over the years by homophobic men.

PDN

Wicknight wrote:

And before you say "God doesn't hate homosexuals" a lot of people would seem to disagree, since He decided to not allow them to have sex for apparently no good reason.

So, Wicknight, would you say that Catholicism teaches that God hates priests? After all, the Catholic Church believes that God decided not to allow priests to have sex for apparently no good reason?

Zombrex

PDN wrote:

So, Wicknight, would you say that Catholicism teaches that God hates priests? After all, the Catholic Church believes that God decided not to allow priests to have sex for apparently no good reason?

Actually there is a "good reason" for priests not to have sex, they are supposed to dedicate themselves to God completely, and as Paul said it is better if you are strong enough to not have sex at all. Sexual desire gets in the way of your relationship with God, and since priests are supposed to lead a community with their relationship, it is important that they have a clear relationship with God. Becoming a priest is choice to give up worldly desire and dedicate your relationship solely to God.

Now of course a lot of people think that is silly, or unnecessary, but at least there is a reason there that actually makes sense to people.

Tell me again, what is the rational behind God saying that a homosexual couple who are deeply in love with other cannot marry or have sex where as a heterosexual couple can?

Its all very well to say that the religion doesn't have anything against homosexuals, but after this being discussed for quite a bit on two threads no one can actually give me a reason that stands up as to why a heterosexual couple who are in love can marry and have sex and a homosexual couple who are in love cannot marry and cannot have sex, beyond "God intends it to be this way"

When I say a reason that stands up I mean one that applies to heterosexuals as well. Jakkass I think said that sex is for producing children. In general that is true, but again Christianity seems to have little issue with an infertile couple getting married. Jakkass also said that sex if for between a man and a woman, but didn't explain why that is. I asked him if a man and a woman love each other more than a homosexual couple but he didn't answer.

So if that is honestly true that you guys are not homophobic and do not have issue or stereotypes towards homosexuals yourself, but are instead simply following the teachings that you believe are from God, the conclusion one is left with is that God has some irrational issue with homosexuals

A lot of people would think that is strange, that God would not like homosexuals. They therefore thing that it is far more likely that the religion itself, rather than God, is homophobic and has incorporated this into the religion for their own ends. So they reject the Catholic churchs teachings on sex and homosexuality.

Not everyone feels that to believe in God or to follow him one must be a slave to the Bible, or particular interpretation of the Bible. Often to people what is in their own heart is more important.

kelly1

Sangre wrote:

I think you should check your definition of foetuses.

Would you be happier with the word zygote?

Zombrex

kelly1 wrote:

Would you be happier with the word zygote?

I imagine he would, since what you are describing isn't an a fetus it is an embryo

A fetus is a later stage of unborn development, well after implantation, when the animal is showing physical features of the mature animal. In humans this is about 8 weeks after conception. Until then the animal is called an embryo

colm-ccfc84

kelly1 wrote:

Colm, true religion is none of these things. It is a holy relationship with God and our neighbour. People who incite hate, cause division, provoke murder etc cannot claim to love God or neighbour.

If this is your idea of religion, no wonder you hate it!

God bless,
Noel.

I may have held some respect for your view if you were not another delusionist. You are an adult with an imaginery friend, says it all. Religion is everything that I previously stated. But don't worry, I won't waste my time here, I have a a wall to go bang my head off.

Zombrex

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

I may have held some respect for your view if you were not another delusionist. You are an adult with an imaginery friend, says it all. Religion is everything that I previously stated. But don't worry, I won't waste my time here, I have a a wall to go bang my head off.

You do realise you are on the Christian forum??

Owen

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

I may have held some respect for your view if you were not another delusionist. You are an adult with an imaginery friend, says it all. Religion is everything that I previously stated. But don't worry, I won't waste my time here, I have a a wall to go bang my head off.

Dude, not cool. We, as athiests are allowed to disagree all we want, as long as we ask logical, and fair questions in this Forum. Insulting Christians, in the Christianity Forum is a bit of a no-no, no matter how tempting it is.

kelly1

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

I may have held some respect for your view if you were not another delusionist. You are an adult with an imaginery friend, says it all. Religion is everything that I previously stated. But don't worry, I won't waste my time here, I have a a wall to go bang my head off.

Yes, it might be for the best if you did bang your head off. At least you wouldn't be able to insult me any more without a head...

Vegeta

As a young male I can say I have no problem at all with Christianity. Jesus and his teachings etc sound reasonable, lead a good decent life and you will be rewarded.

Fine I do this every day. I try not to lie, I love my family my friends and my girlfriend. I (try) treat everyone I meet with respect. I'd say so do 90% of people.

So the idea of a higher power (call him God if you will) could be accepted by many young people.

The big big problem is the church. Their position on so many topics are man made rules (not devine) which were thought up in a different age and have little or no logic to them.

SO want to attract more young people, reform the church.

Vegeta

kelly1 wrote:

Yes, it might be for the best if you did bang your head off. At least you wouldn't be able to insult me any more without a head...

Not very christian of you now is it

philologos

Vegeta wrote:

SO want to attract more young people, reform the church.

Or join a different one, theres many different options out there.

Vegeta

yeah that's another thing.

How many of the practising Catholics here have tried other religions or did you just stick with the one your parents chose for you?

kelly1

Vegeta wrote:

The big big problem is the church. Their position on so many topics are man made rules (not devine) which were thought up in a different age and have little or no logic to them.

Hello Vegeta, How much study have you done of the basis of catholic moral teaching? Have you read the catechism? Or are you merely repeating prejudiced worn-out cliches? Truth is eternal and the truth was given to the Church by the Holy Spirit:

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth.

1 John 4:6 We are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

It would be worth your while to have a look at this site:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/

God bless,
Noel.

kelly1

Vegeta wrote:

yeah that's another thing.

How many of the practising Catholics here have tried other religions or did you just stick with the one your parents chose for you?

In my own case, I grew up in a family that basically didn't practice our faith except for Mass attendance most/some Sunday's. In my teenage years I drifted away from the faith and the sacraments and got into all sorts of new-age, yoga, taoism, occult etc. I wasn't until a pilgrimage I made to Lourdes 5 years ago that I discovered the beauty and wonder of the catholic faith, thanks be to God! My knowledge of the faith was virtually non-existent due to poor catechism and lack of interest on my parents part. When I started to read about the faith, it was like finding a treasure chest that had been hidden right under by nose.

The main reason that most peolple don't practice or leave the faith is that they don't understand it. It's not all about rules and regulations. It's all about having a loving relationship with God. We can't have a relationship with God if we cling to sin. In order to avoid sin, we need to know what is sinful. Because our nature is corrupted by original sin, we don't always know what's wrong in the eyes of God. Even the different Christian Churches argue over what's right and what's wrong. Jesus gave us a Church as a compass to guide us along the narrow path to eternal life.

God bless,
Noel.

Zombrex

kelly1 wrote:

The main reason that most peolple don't practice or leave the faith is that they don't understand it. It's not all about rules and regulations. It's all about having a loving relationship with God. We can't have a relationship with God if we cling to sin. In order to avoid sin, we need to know what is sinful. Because our nature is corrupted by original sin, we don't always know what's wrong in the eyes of God. Even the different Christian Churches argue over what's right and what's wrong. Jesus gave us a Church as a compass to guide us along the narrow path to eternal life.

I think that protestants would point out that you don't actually need the Catholic Church for that, you just need to read the Bible. All the formality and bureaucracy of the Catholic Church gets i the way of that.

kelly1

Wicknight wrote:

I think that protestants would point out that you don't actually need the Catholic Church for that, you just need to read the Bible. All the formality and bureaucracy of the Catholic Church gets i the way of that.

Where do you think the bible came from? It came from the Church of course! Was the Church no longer necessary having written the bible? Nowhere in the bible does it say that we must rely solely on holy scripture for guidance. In fact scripture says the the Church is the pillar of the Truth:

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


Do you not accept that Christ founded a Church founded on Peter against which the gates of Hell would not prevail? There was only one Christian Church up to the time of the great schism of 1054. How can you dispense with Christ's Church and replace it with the bible? The bible doesn't just record the teachings of Christ. It also includes the teachings of the Church as revleaved by the Holy Spirit:

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14 He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you.

God bless,
Noel.