Salman Rushdie Debacle

Bottle_of_Smoke

So Pakistan not too pleased with the Sir-ing of Salman.

Can anyone actually tell me what he said in the book, been pissing me off all day, keep hearing it was how he depicted the Prophet Mohammed

Though it doesn't say how he depicted him....

anyone?

Karoma

Moved from AH. People in this forum tend to be more capable of reading. Ahem.

WindSock

Salman Rushdie is being Knighted? Thats one way to stir some shit.

lecomte

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

So Pakistan not too pleased with the Sir-ing of Salman.

Can anyone actually tell me what he said in the book, been pissing me off all day, keep hearing it was how he depicted the Prophet Mohammed

Though it doesn't say how he depicted him....

anyone?

Any chance you might consider reading the book?

But I'll give you a clue. Imagine the up-roar it would cause in western civilisation of a (second?) fictional book was released depicting the main protagonist as Christ and juxtaposing many of our sacred and upheld traditions with the dirt of contemporary society, conferring on Him the the sweat of human smut.

You don't use Mohammed as a tool, you don't draw him, you don't write through him, and you sure as hell don't give the idea that he manipulated the prophecies to his own end.

It's a really good book, I recomment you read it. There are better from Rushdie, however.

BossArky

There are many threads on here about the book. Do search in google followed by "site: boards.ie".

aequinoctium

is the death threat still there?
if so, could he risk publically showing himself at a knighting?

Valmont

He said that the Iranian government don't enforce the fatwa but keep it in place and strangely enough he said that every February 14th they send him a postcard reminding him of it, can't remember what paper that was in sorry.

ZorbaTehZ

Not only did Khomeini issue a fatwa against Rushdie, but against everyone involved in publishing the book. The Japanese translator was stabbed to death, and two others survived assassination attempts, can't remember who they were though. Anyone remember what Cat Stevens said about Rushdie?
TBH the whole history of what has happened in regards the outcry against this book, confirmed for me everything I believe about organized religion.
As for the book itself, I didn't particularly like it. Like Lecomte said there is much better from him, Midnight's Children is one of the best books I've ever read.

donaghs

lecomte wrote:

But I'll give you a clue. Imagine the up-roar it would cause in western civilisation of a (second?) fictional book was released depicting the main protagonist as Christ and juxtaposing many of our sacred and upheld traditions with the dirt of contemporary society, conferring on Him the the sweat of human smut.QUOTE]

This and far worse happens all the time. A couple of examples are the Jerry Springer Opera, The Life of Brian, "Piss Christ", etc, etc. People get over it, we've moved beyond burning people at the stake for questioning or "offending" Christianity. In 1992 the Vatican even admitted that Galileo was right, the Earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around.

The Rushdie case was a good example of religious mania out of control.

jackbhoy

lecomte wrote:

Any chance you might consider reading the book?

But I'll give you a clue. Imagine the up-roar it would cause in western civilisation of a (second?) fictional book was released depicting the main protagonist as Christ and juxtaposing many of our sacred and upheld traditions with the dirt of contemporary society, conferring on Him the the sweat of human smut.

You don't use Mohammed as a tool, you don't draw him, you don't write through him, and you sure as hell don't give the idea that he manipulated the prophecies to his own end.

This reminds me of a recent South Park episode, the theme being "don't depict the prophet Mohammed in cartoon or they'll get angry and kill us all".

Frankly, I don't like the book all that much and I can see how it's offensive but he/we have the right to free speech at the end of the day. If people of Islam don't like it then don't read it, that Pakistani Minister coming out saying this Knighthood justifies suicide bombings against Britain is indicitive of the insanity of world in which we live.

irish_bob

the hysterical reaction to rushdies knighthood is just the latest in a long line of examples of how overly sensitive muslims are
the muslim mindset is so incomprehendable to me and most westerners that i really do think thier is a clash of civilisations which is going to become more and more problematic , as regards the comment on how thier was a similar reaction when the last temptation of christ came out , number 1 thier was no rioting in the streets in catholic countrys and the pope didnt call for the death of martin scorcesse

Valmont

irish_bob wrote:

and the pope didnt call for the death of martin scorcesse

lol that's a funny thought.


Not all Muslims are overly sensitive, I'm sure some people didn't really care.

Karlusss

"Muslim groups in the UK claim that Rushdie knighting could spark terrorism"

I read that on Sky News. As if they just lightbulb and realise Rushdie wrote a book twenty years on that they will probably never read, and decide he needs to die. Again.

The whole thing is stupid. The Queen doesn't have to impress Pakistan, no matter what her jurisdiction there is. She awarded a brilliant writer, the best around at the moment in my opinion, who deserved the award. He writes about transplanted cultures and the isolation of it. Maybe some of these fatwaists would enjoy his stuff.

donaghs

Interesting as well that a lot of intellectuals in England, and left of spectrum people have criticised Rushdie for accepting the Kinghthood from a "system" that he had criticised in the past.

Normally I'm of that opinion myself, but in the case of Rushdie I can see why he would accept it. After the outrage and the violent protest, not many were prepared to publically defend Rushdie. The British State did defend him, and provided practical support in the form of police and sercret service protection. Many on the left chose to look the other way. Confused perhaps by the clash of free speech versus the rights of a minority group. Maybe frightened. The Labour MP Keith Vaz led a demonstration against Rushdie in Leicester.

His life was at stake at most people preferred not to get involved.

ZorbaTehZ

The major problem is that Islam, just will not try in any way to be progressive, or a little more liberal, in terms of this sort of thing. I mean, in the world we live in today, where free-speech is so immensely important, that kind of attitude just won't work. The absolute fanaticism they have for their religion, and how they claim that issuing fatwa death-warrants is the will of Allah is insane imo. This was the same behavior we say in the Catholic Church - 9 bloody centuries ago. Whereas the Catholic Church seems to be making the right progress, Islam is doing no such thing.

brianthebard

aequinoctium wrote:

is the death threat still there?
if so, could he risk publically showing himself at a knighting?

It still exists but its not being taken seriously any more. He's been out and about for several years now. Zorba that's an extremely narrow viewpoint to say that islam is not progressive or trying to be. There are certain elements that are not progressive or willing to join the modern world, just like in the Catholic church, but there are others who are more than willing to embrace different cultures and ideas.

ZorbaTehZ

Obviously there are exceptions to everything, I am talking in general. And I'm not talking about embracing cultures/ideas, I'm talking in the context of the book about the way Islam reacts to anything that seems to criticize some aspect of their religion.

brianthebard

In general, I hate it when people talk in general. And I think if you are talking about the way Islam reacts to criticism, then you are talking about culture and ideas. its not my fault if you can't see that.

ZorbaTehZ

I suppose you could say that I am talking about culture, but as for "embracing other cultures/ideas" thats got nothing to do with what I said.

brianthebard

It relates to the fact that you don't believe muslims are capable of doing so. That's pretty much what you said in your first reply.

donaghs

I get the impression you're trying to be fair to everyone, not be too judgemental, but ignoring the glaring facts surrounding the death sentence on Rushdie, and the people who died already as a result of the fatwa. And the Pakistani government official.

What's your view of the whole thing?