LGB forum needs to change it's name.

Stark · 19-06-2007 4:29pm

TheFlaps wrote:

There was a tranny in my college that was always causing trouble like this. Writing letters into the student paper about being discriminated against by the gays. Didnt help that it had hep. c and other diseases, was a recovering junkie and was a walking mess of a person. I wonder if they are the same people.

It might have been Icequeen.

Oryx · 19-06-2007 4:31pm

Hobart wrote:

If you have fook all original or helpful to say, well then, say fook all.

Bye bye to 90% of boards traffic, so.

I dont want to analyise, abuse or otherwise interact with Rozie. He/she seems particularly fixed in their viewpoint, to the exclusion of all others. You simply cannot win or even argue constructively with someone like that.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 5:48pm

Mordeth wrote:

a roze by any other name would want to chop it's testicles off

I have absolutely no reason to respect any of you as long as you tear into me, and not this poor excuse for a moderator. It's official: Boards.ie has bigoted staff. Who saw that coming?

Emo Girl J · 19-06-2007 5:50pm

Hello. Rozie posted a link to this thread in a trans support chat, so I registered to say something:

I've met a lot of transgender people who are very angry, or very crazy, or some combination of the two. It's not unexpected... it's not an easy road, and there is a lot of discrimination that goes on.

However, there are those of us who realize that putting up a big stink and trying to force people to accept us isn't the way to go. Sticking the T on LGB has always been a strange marriage to begin with, as sexual orientation and identity are very different things (though a lot of trans people identify as LGB).

So, please don't think "crazy" when you think "tranny". Please don't think "angry loon". There are many of us who are very positive about things, despite the pains we've endured, and do work to make a difference in less dramatic ways. I myself go to high schools in the US and speak with students and school officials, telling them my story.

Please don't think badly of the trans community as a whole. We are all different; one person does not represent all of us.

Crucifix · 19-06-2007 5:51pm

Rozie wrote:

I have absolutely no reason to respect any of you as long as you tear into me, and not this poor excuse for a moderator. It's official: Boards.ie has bigoted staff. Who saw that coming?

Didn't you already comment on that post? Why not answer some of the civil posts?

Silverfish · 19-06-2007 5:55pm

Emo Girl J wrote:

Hello. Rozie posted a link to this thread in a trans support chat, so I registered to say something:

I've met a lot of transgender people who are very angry, or very crazy, or some combination of the two. It's not unexpected... it's not an easy road, and there is a lot of discrimination that goes on.

However, there are those of us who realize that putting up a big stink and trying to force people to accept us isn't the way to go. Sticking the T on LGB has always been a strange marriage to begin with, as sexual orientation and identity are very different things (though a lot of trans people identify as LGB).

So, please don't think "crazy" when you think "tranny". Please don't think "angry loon". There are many of us who are very positive about things, despite the pains we've endured, and do work to make a difference in less dramatic ways. I myself go to high schools in the US and speak with students and school officials, telling them my story.

Please don't think badly of the trans community as a whole. We are all different; one person does not represent all of us.

I don't think any of us would ever, ever think that really.

What we are working from here is a past history of aggressive outbursts from Rozie. Nothing is ever 'asked' for, its demanded, with swearing and aggression.
Its not the best way to ask a community for anything. So hence the responses.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 5:57pm

Theflaps wrote:

There was a tranny in my college that was always causing trouble like this. Writing letters into the student paper about being discriminated against by the gays. Didnt help that it had hep. c and other diseases, was a recovering junkie and was a walking mess of a person. I wonder if they are the same people.

"Causing Trouble!" HOW DARE THEY TRY AND DEAL WITH DISCRIMINATION!

If you had any idea what it's like to be trans, you'd know how easy it is to fall into being a "complete mess". It's horrible that you'd use that against someone. For the record, I'm not a "recovering Junkie", and am relatively mentally stable.

This is an absolutely disgusting attitude you have. But most people, being stupid, equate aggressive to bad, and don't even notice your post. But they need to learn otherwise, so I'm not letting up any time soon. If I were to only win people over on the sound or style of my argument, it would defeat the point of fighting for people who don't want to be judged by the surface, and very often can't help being aggressive or miserable.

For the record, I had bad experiences being T when I was in UL, and UCC hasn't been much better to me(though Cork is ten times better to live in than the ****hole that is Limerick).

Over Christmas, I was kicked out of a house by a bunch of people who probably aren't very different to most replying to this thread, I even had comments on Bebo to get them by the balls, so to speak.

But the college did NOTHING, the LGBT did NOTHING. They refused to help. Nobody I went to was any help. Why? Because people didn't care, and were proud of it. Ireland's wonderful apathy at work. And part of the reason they didn't care, was that they weren't fully morally opposed to what's happening.

Which is terrible.

I know the way you think. I know the thoughts behind these absolutely atrocious attempts at responses, I know quite how stupid and horrible the way you are thinking is - I only wish the people making the responses would realising it. Being a majority doesn't make a difference if you don't have an argument for the majority to hold.

There are far too many people responding to this thread who have no interest in T issues, just coming here to attack me, the great self worthy mental patient crusader. And you wonder why I hate you all so much.

I have no reason to respect any of you. You might accuse me of being self righteous for assigning any importance to my feelings of others, but then you do get awfully worked up when I flip you off. Choose one or the other. Your stances seem to change to whatever allows you to be the biggest asshole towards me, yet I'm accused of being the troll.

Those accusations disgust me the most. If someone is a troll, you don't have to listen to them - they're trying to rile you up.

Discrimination DOES exist, and it IS real, this post-modern world wants to think otherwise, but it's so full of **** you could use it's brains for plant food. How on earth do you imagine a world without people like me in it?

Do you not realise that some people actually still believe in things?

Oryx · 19-06-2007 5:58pm

Emo Girl J wrote:

Please don't think badly of the trans community as a whole. We are all different; one person does not represent all of us.

Thanks for that post. I wouldnt judge a group of people based on one person, (that would be bigotry)and despite the silliness and cat posts here,:D I dont think the majority of boardsies would either.

Kinetic^ · 19-06-2007 5:59pm

ROFL @ Rozie posting about this thread on another tranny forum. The issue is not that Rozie is a tranny, it's that Rozie is an absolute fruit cake!!!!

Filan · 19-06-2007 6:01pm

As stated in l.g.b thread I don't honestly believe that l.g.b and T share that much common ground. I say that as an identifying Trans person myself...the difference is very considerable....and therefore I don't feel that T has any divine right, nor is it arguably appropriate, to be included in the L.G.B title. Is it that T is too weak to stand on it's own that it needs the shield of L.G and B? Yes I believe that this probably is the case. We are a numericaly very weak group...But that does not in my eyes necessitate an umbolilical cord to a disparate L.G. and B. T is separate and I don't view it as discrimination for it not to be included in the forum title.

Rozie I respect you....and I admire your conviction and your courage..none of us are perfect..none of us are without flaws..not you..nor I ..nor anyone here... But most people here mean well..they may not agree ..but most are not out to cause harm...remember that

aidan_walsh · 19-06-2007 6:02pm

Rozie wrote:

I have no reason to respect any of you.

Then stop expecting respect "in return".

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:03pm

Silverfish wrote:

I don't think any of us would ever, ever think that really.

What we are working from here is a past history of aggressive outbursts from Rozie. Nothing is ever 'asked' for, its demanded, with swearing and aggression.
Its not the best way to ask a community for anything. So hence the responses.

What are you talking about? I asked for the LGB to change it's name before - I never set out aggressive until much later. It's so easy for you to twist the truth to fit your strawman when you're part of the majority.

There is nothing wrong with being aggressive, assertive, if people are purely full of ****. Can you please explain what's wrong with demanding something that every single other LGB forum delivers? Why should I ask politely when 1) They refused this already, 2) The first post in this topic WAS pretty polite and was met with nothing but personal attacks?

The truth is most Ts aren't a ton better than the people on this forum. They're apathetic and hell, and suffer from some serious abused child syndrome. They rarely ever stand up for their rights, they just want to be left alone and let other people do all the work winning their rights for them. It's near impossible to get a T up off their ass to do anything. I did try and get a crowd earlier to try and say they were against this - but instead, one goes to the whole effort of decrying me on the forums, when they could have instead decryed the blatant and obvious discrimination and arrogance of Stark and his crew.

Isn't that amazing though? So very Irish. They won't go to the effort to deal with real discrimination, yet they'll take more than enough time to piss on someone who they see as going just a little bit overboard trying to win their rights for them. Why am I the only disgusted at this?

This is a worldwide phenomenon - but nobody does it quite as well, and defends it quite so stupidly as the Irish. You are like this person squared.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is WHY I'm so aggressive towards everyone here, this is why I don't show any respect to their supposed "arguments". Can you not see that being in the majority does not make you right? How are you right to chase someone for being overly assertive, but not for turning a blind eye to minority recognition?

They are horrible. Most trannies don't like me, and I don't like most trannies. But it doesn't mean they're not worth defending, maybe if they had a leg to stand on they wouldn't be so down about themselves. I would as soon be defending the rights of some of the prevolutionary milch in this topic if there was a good enough reason to do so.

Silverfish · 19-06-2007 6:05pm

Rozie wrote:

What are you talking about? I asked for the LGB to change it's name before - I never set out aggressive until much later. It's so easy for you to twist the truth to fit your strawman when you're part of the majority.

There is nothing wrong with being aggressive, assertive, if people are purely full of ****. Can you please explain what's wrong with demanding something that every single other LGB forum delivers? Why should I ask politely when 1) They refused this already, 2) The first post in this topic WAS pretty polite and was met with nothing but personal attacks?

The truth is most Ts aren't a ton better than the people on this forum. They're apathetic and hell, and suffer from some serious abused child syndrome. They rarely ever stand up for their rights, they just want to be left alone and let other people do all the work winning their rights for them. It's near impossible to get a T up off their ass to do anything. I did try and get a crowd earlier to try and say they were against this - but instead, one goes to the whole effort of decrying me on the forums, when they could have instead decryed the blatant and obvious discrimination and arrogance of Stark and his crew.

Isn't that amazing though? So very Irish. They won't go to the effort to deal with real discrimination, yet they'll take more than enough time to piss on someone who they see as going just a little bit overboard trying to win their rights for them. Why am I the only disgusted at this?

This is a worldwide phenomenon - but nobody does it quite as well, and defends it quite so stupidly as the Irish. You are like this person squared.

They are horrible. Most trannies don't like me, and I don't like most trannies. But it doesn't mean they're not worth defending, maybe if they had a leg to stand on they wouldn't be so down about themselves. I would as soon be defending the rights of some of the prevolutionary milch in this topic if there was a good enough reason to do so.

So wait, what you're saying here is, we are prejudiced against transgendered people, and you are prejudiced against transgendered people, and they are prejudiced against you?
we need to crack out the Venn diagrams for this.

Maybe they won't do anything because you are aggressive and rude.

This is a worldwide phenomenon - but nobody does it quite as well, and defends it quite so stupidly as the Irish. You are like this person squared.

Look, TWO other T's have posted here disagreeing with you. You yourself have said they don't agree with you.

I'll tell you your problem now. You don't know when to stop. Or when you are in the wrong.
If you are in the wrong, its because people are Irish, or not Transgender, or boards.ie posters, and if they are transgender, its because they're transgender.

I mean, good grief.

Blowfish · 19-06-2007 6:06pm

Rozie wrote:

2) The first post in this topic WAS pretty polite

I suggest you reread your original post, it came accross as anything but 'pretty polite'

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:07pm

Crucifix wrote:

Didn't you already comment on that post? Why not answer some of the civil posts?

You're missing the point. My point still stands.

You seem to think I'm such a horrible person, yet let comments like this pass. You are attacking me, and not someone who is unquestionably horrible and in the wrong.

Karl Hungus · 19-06-2007 6:08pm

Emo Girl J wrote:

Hello. Rozie posted a link to this thread in a trans support chat, so I registered to say something:

I've met a lot of transgender people who are very angry, or very crazy, or some combination of the two. It's not unexpected... it's not an easy road, and there is a lot of discrimination that goes on.

However, there are those of us who realize that putting up a big stink and trying to force people to accept us isn't the way to go. Sticking the T on LGB has always been a strange marriage to begin with, as sexual orientation and identity are very different things (though a lot of trans people identify as LGB).

So, please don't think "crazy" when you think "tranny". Please don't think "angry loon". There are many of us who are very positive about things, despite the pains we've endured, and do work to make a difference in less dramatic ways. I myself go to high schools in the US and speak with students and school officials, telling them my story.

Please don't think badly of the trans community as a whole. We are all different; one person does not represent all of us.

Hey there. I can understand it must be frustrating for one person to reflect so badly on your community, so if it helps, I certainly don't think less of transgendered people as a whole because of the actions and attitude of one person.

Crucifix · 19-06-2007 6:09pm

Rozie wrote:

There is nothing wrong with being aggressive, assertive, if people are purely full of ****. Can you please explain what's wrong with demanding something that every single other LGB forum delivers? Why should I ask politely when 1) They refused this already, 2) The first post in this topic WAS pretty polite and was met with nothing but personal attacks?

Firstly, the word demand. You shouldn't demand anything from boards.ie, it owes you nothing. If you asked politely before and they said no, well that sucks, but that's not carte blanche to be rude and aggressive on here.
Secondly, just because every other board provides doesn't nessicerly mean boards.ie should. Many people have asked nicely for you to give some reasoning. I appreciate you probably made the case on that previous thread, but if you don't post any of it here, this thread remains fairly pointless.

You're missing the point. My point still stands.

You seem to think I'm such a horrible person, yet let comments like this pass. You are attacking me, and not someone who is unquestionably horrible and in the wrong.

Many of the posts are unkind, but as you said yourself you should ignore people who are trolling. You can't expect to get anywhere if you just keep exchanging abuse.

Emo Girl J · 19-06-2007 6:11pm

Rozie, people aren't going to want to help you (or even listen to you) if they don't respect you. It's understandable that you're angry, but you need to channel that anger into something more productive.

Oh, and they will definitely not listen to you if you start sounding racist. You will lose any support that way. I'm part Irish myself, so I was immediately offended by some of the things you said.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:15pm

Sangre wrote:

I never got why other groups make it LGBT. I thought transgender wasn't a sexuality issue but a body identity one? What has me rejecting my body got to do with boys liking boys? Are you saying you're transgender because you happen to like boys? Is that it? There are no other issues? If thats the case then LGBT all the way but somehow I doubt its that simple.

But come on. Other forums do it - it's not just to do with the majority, but the definition. Do you really think that Irish people, especially the ***** in this topic, are going to be the ones to "finally figure it out!"? Why do they think they're smart enough to beg to differ, yet use the "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO SAY THEES TO US!" rubbish on me? Why is there so much hypocrisy going unnoticed here.

The fact is, that if T does not recieve support from the LGB, who ARE they going to recieve support from? They are not a strong enough entity on their own, such a small minority. They'd be stamped over.

The reasons why they go in with LGB and not some other random grouping is that their experiences are ridiculous similar, but much, much worse in the case of Ts. They suffer the same kind of discrimination. Most people don't care that Ts aren't technically G - they'll still shove them in the same box. It is not "giving in" to group similiarly - as LGBT grouping together is, or should be, all about defying discrimination. Ireland seems to be the one country that doesn't get this, it seems to think that it's just some sort of chat group. It's not.

Both LGB and T are about defying gender conventions. They are taking a wild U-Turn from what has historically been the role of sex and gender, and even if that's forgotten, still doing it very different to the majority. Just because one is about preference for another person's gender instead of your own gender does not make them so different.

Biologically, they are also believed to be caused by very similiar things - mostly likely abnormal hormonal bursts in the womb.

Ts are very often LGB within themselves, showing an even stronger biological connection too.

There really is a very, very strong argument as to why T goes with LGBT. It's ****ing pathetic that the people in this topic think they have a real majority - they don't. Most forums go with LGBT, for the reasons I have stated, and because despite some tiffs, it just makes sense as it's the "same sort of thing" even if it's got a different emphasis.

If T breaks from LGB, we recieve next to NO support. And that's exactly what happened in the LGB forum here - on numerous occasions Stark and the others refused to protect Transgenderism for attack, shrugging their shoulders at it when ever I raised an objection.

This is unforgivable. You'll notice i haven't been as aggressive in this post, but I still firmly believe the people involved deserve every bit of bile in my stomach.

This is wrong. It has to change. Ts need to be recognised and not sidelined anymore. I don't care for what you claim or who you claim to know and love regarding Ts, action is what matters here.

If the LGB here does not fully recognise T, this site as a whole should be blacklisted as Transphobic, as being against progression, being viciously conservative, conformist, and apathetic.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:20pm

Emo Girl J wrote:

Rozie, people aren't going to want to help you (or even listen to you) if they don't respect you. It's understandable that you're angry, but you need to channel that anger into something more productive.

But it doesn't make a difference whether I'm aggressive or not - they don't listen. It's more productive to drill a point in if they won't take it in any other way.

Maybe you think it reflects badly on Ts - but I think you do. It's more important to show you have a backbone, that you're not willing to deal with this ****. Because what happens to Ts is that we get ****ed around, disrespected.

You're not going to earn any respect being a doormat - you need people that are both nasty and nice in their methods to prove we are truly human, to show all sides of the emotional wreckage we go through.

Oh, and they will definitely not listen to you if you start sounding racist. You will lose any support that way. I'm part Irish myself, so I was immediately offended by some of the things you said.

Bull****. This is complete abuse of political correctness to cover the truth(as opposed to appropriate use of it, which is what the topic is about)

Most Irish people on this forum have shown utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards Transgenderism. In real life, I've always had more or less the same experience.

This is a truth. I have observed it first hand, and most people here know it to be true, they just won't admit it.

Irish people are pretty ****ing **** when it comes to these things. If they think this is "racism", then they're wrong - they should work on changing their attitudes instead of trying to get off scott free under the cover of discrimination - which is my problem with them to begin with, they discriminate like Mugabe on acid in a room full of white people.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:23pm

Blowfish wrote:

I suggest you reread your original post, it came accross as anything but 'pretty polite'

Have you read the post below it?

It was assertive - it was not vicious or even that aggressive. For the most part it was matter of fact. All that I said there was true, has happened.

If you think that the first post in this topic is too aggressive - then you're proving my point, Ireland is full of apathetic ****ers who don't like anyone believing in anything important.

Filan · 19-06-2007 6:23pm

It's not an easy question Rozie...I realise that L.G. and B. provide a platform for T..which they would struggle to construct on their own... I really don't have an answer..in what direction should T go? I simply don't know..but the alliance with LGB is not one that I feel particularily comfortable with...friends..cousins yes...siblings no. Simply don't have all the answers...better brains than me might..but I don't...with this being posted on the forementioned T website..which I saw..I can see this spiralling.. be prepared Moderators...national crisis looming!

A danger in feeling that one person can change a system..a few months ago I challenged the Islam site....and didn't realise my own limitations...regardless or how polite..or how aggressive..one person cannot (in 99.999999999% cases!)change the world!

Blowfish · 19-06-2007 6:25pm

Rozie wrote:

Have you read the post below it?

It was assertive - it was not vicious or even that aggressive.

If you think that the first post in this topic is too aggressive - then you're proving my point, Ireland is full of apathetic ****ers who don't like anyone believing in anything important.

More demanding than aggresive, but that's beside the point, you simply wont get a good response by posting that way.

PeakOutput · 19-06-2007 6:25pm

so are you going to ignore my perfectly civil post and the legitimate questions it contained?

PeakOutput · 19-06-2007 6:27pm

Rozie wrote:

But it doesn't make a difference whether I'm aggressive or not - they don't listen.

you seem to be confusing listening to someone and agreeing with them

gandalf · 19-06-2007 6:27pm

Rozie tbh you have no rights on this forum. You are granted the honour of being allowed to post by the admins who run this site, pay for this site with their time and money.

If you don't like it then you have the right to leave. The right way to do this would have been to requests a sub forum under LGB and I don't see a reason why they wouldn't grant it. The wrong way is the "set my people free" rant that seems to punctuate alot of your input on this community.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:29pm

Blowfish wrote:

More demanding than aggresive, but that's beside the point, you simply wont get a good response by posting that way.

So what would be the way to get a good response, then, pray tell? I sure didn't get any response asking before.

hullaballoo · 19-06-2007 6:29pm

Rozie wrote:

But come on. Other forums do it - it's not just to do with the majority, but the definition. Do you really think that Irish people, especially the ***** in this topic, are going to be the ones to "finally figure it out!"? Why do they think they're smart enough to beg to differ, yet use the "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO SAY THEES TO US!" rubbish on me? Why is there so much hypocrisy going unnoticed here.

Drivel.

The fact is, that if T does not recieve support from the LGB, who ARE they going to recieve support from? They are not a strong enough entity on their own, such a small minority. They'd be stamped over.

The reasons why they go in with LGB and not some other random grouping is that their experiences are ridiculous similar, but much, much worse in the case of Ts. They suffer the same kind of discrimination. Most people don't care that Ts aren't technically G - they'll still shove them in the same box. It is not "giving in" to group similiarly - as LGBT grouping together is, or should be, all about defying discrimination. Ireland seems to be the one country that doesn't get this, it seems to think that it's just some sort of chat group. It's not.

Reason.

Both LGB and T are about defying gender conventions. They are taking a wild U-Turn from what has historically been the role of sex and gender, and even if that's forgotten, still doing it very different to the majority. Just because one is about preference for another person's gender instead of your own gender does not make them so different.

Biologically, they are also believed to be caused by very similiar things - mostly likely abnormal hormonal bursts in the womb.

Ts are very often LGB within themselves, showing an even stronger biological connection too.

There really is a very, very strong argument as to why T goes with LGBT. It's ****ing pathetic that the people in this topic think they have a real majority - they don't. Most forums go with LGBT, for the reasons I have stated, and because despite some tiffs, it just makes sense as it's the "same sort of thing" even if it's got a different emphasis.

Back to drivel again.

If T breaks from LGB, we recieve next to NO support...If the LGB here does not fully recognise T, this site as a whole should be blacklisted as Transphobic, as being against progression, being viciously conservative, conformist, and apathetic.

...still drivel.

Now, if you coul cut out the drivel, and leave in the reason, people would be far more inclined to listen to your side of things.

As it happens, having cut out the drivel from your post above, and read the bits I've marked 'reason' discretely, I can see where you're coming from.

If there was a T in the forum name, more Irish transsexuals would be inclined to feel like they have somewhere that's just for them to support them and help them. The potential problem with the current forum membership making the decision on it is that transsexuals are underrepresented. As such, people who are not really affected by the (very unique) issues around transsexuality are making a decision on behalf of whatever transsexual community might exist.

That's my take on things just from the above thread. I don't know a whole lot about the LGB forum as it is though, so I could be completely wrong.

scojones · 19-06-2007 6:30pm

Rozie wrote:

Most Irish people on this forum have shown utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards Transgenderism.

Um, get it right Rozie. Most people on this forum have showed utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards YOU, because of the childish little rant you're on. Mind you, statistics and generalising make baby Jesus cry.

FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the fuck out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:31pm

Crucifix wrote:

Firstly, the word demand. You shouldn't demand anything from boards.ie, it owes you nothing. If you asked politely before and they said no, well that sucks, but that's not carte blanche to be rude and aggressive on here.
Secondly, just because every other board provides doesn't nessicerly mean boards.ie should. Many people have asked nicely for you to give some reasoning. I appreciate you probably made the case on that previous thread, but if you don't post any of it here, this thread remains fairly pointless.

Many of the posts are unkind, but as you said yourself you should ignore people who are trolling. You can't expect to get anywhere if you just keep exchanging abuse.

I'm sorry, but it seems you're a person who doesn't believing in fighting for things. Someone who adores rules and technicalities, but not the idea that the human spirit can transcend them.

I will continue to demand what should be. If you can point me towards another Irish LGBT board that does provide for T properly, then that'd be a start. But it doesn't change the fact that what this one is doing is wrong. As long as that continues, I will continue my "demands". I do not care for your convoluted concepts of ownership and what people are "entitled" to. I believe I should be entitled to be protected on the forum that every where else is meant to do so beyond a shadow of doubt.

You're fighting for rules and technicalities which excuse bigotry and social exclusion.

You may want to rethink why you'd want to defend such concepts.

Karl Hungus · 19-06-2007 6:33pm

Cartoon_Head wrote:

I've read too many stories of emotionally disturbed people causing themselves or others harm based on things that happened in internet forums / chatrooms so perhaps it would be prudent for everyone to consider that before taking any more swipes at Rozie or anyone else for that matter.

Although Irish gun laws are thankfully not as retarded as U.S. laws I would still be a bit wary of what a person with as many issues as Rozie could be capable of doing if he was pushed too far.

Seung-Hui Cho anyone?

I think this point is one of the most sensible things said on this thread.

But I think that there's far too many people here that will innocently reply, yet have their reply taken as a swipe by Rozie, as she just seem to read whatever she wants into the post. So it's all well and good to tell people not to take swipes, but that doesn't factor in what Rozie chooses to take as a swipe.

I don't think it's a good idea at all to even give Rozie the opportunity to interpret people's responses as hostile or not. This thread really should've been locked a long time ago, and Rozie banned.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:34pm

Hobart wrote:

I could not agree more with Cartoon Head. It's all very easy to point the finger and yell at the "different one" or the "one with issues" . Yea yea yea, we all know that rozie has a way about her that would not endear her to most people from a social perspective. This may or may not cause her to ask things in a direct or rude manner. So fooking what? Ignore the thread that you find dis-tasteful, instead of regurgitating the same ol' "this is boards, blah blah blah" type post that not only make you look like a piece of the borg, but which are also as mind numbingly repetitive as are the rants you complain about.

If you have fook all original or helpful to say, well then, say fook all.

Yes, this is a great post. You'll notice it isn't necessarily agreeing with me either - so you can't accuse me of that.

It's great because it's absolutely true. If you don't like my attitude, you don't have to post in the topic. Almost all of you, especially people like Karl Hungus, have gone to special effort to hound me wherever I post on this forums - the complete opposite of the reaction you'd expect if they didn't like what I'm saying.

They're dramawhores.

On the other hand, I cannot ignore the blatant exclusion and discrimination, as well as the moderator corruption on this board. It doesn't go away if I ignore it - it affects things, my ranting does not if you ignore it, at worst it will actually bring a little more tolerance in the world from the few people that get what I'm saying. And they do exist.

PeakOutput · 19-06-2007 6:36pm

Rozie wrote:

Yes, this is a great post. You'll notice it isn't necessarily agreeing with me either - so you can't accuse me of that.

<snip>

in the world from the few people that get what I'm saying. And they do exist.

so are you going to keep ignoring this post????

rozie, if you can, please answer my question without any any curses or personal attacks as I have never done that to you or even seen you around here before so with that in mind.

1) why is it discrimination for the name not to include t but its ok for it not to include s (for straight) there is a sexuality forum......this is not, as far as i can see, it. it is a forum to discuss lesbian gay and bisexual issues.

2)why is it discrimination when you can go through the exact same process everyone else here does to set up a forums specifically for "t" issues

3) why is it discrimination for lesbian gay and bisexual people to want to be seperated from "t" people......they are after all different

4) why do you still post here if you hate it so much.

a simple yes i am ignoring it or no i am about to answer will do so i know weather to keep an eye on the thread or not

Rev Hellfire · 19-06-2007 6:37pm

Rozie wrote:

If T breaks from LGB, we recieve next to NO support. And that's exactly what happened in the LGB forum here - on numerous occasions Stark and the others refused to protect Transgenderism for attack, shrugging their shoulders at it when ever I raised an objection.

Once again we have another one of rozie's unsubstantiated claims of discrimination from within the LGB forum and the implication of approval of it from the moderators. Perhaps rozie will break the habit of a life time and actual provide concrete evidence of this heinous crime.

hullaballoo · 19-06-2007 6:37pm

scojones wrote:

Um, get it right Rozie. Most people on this forum have showed utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards YOU, because of the childish little rant you're on. Mind you, statistics and generalising make baby Jesus cry.

FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the fuck out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you.

Ffs sjones, give it a rest, will you?

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:39pm

gandalf wrote:

Rozie tbh you have no rights on this forum. You are granted the honour of being allowed to post by the admins who run this site, pay for this site with their time and money.

If you don't like it then you have the right to leave. The right way to do this would have been to requests a sub forum under LGB and I don't see a reason why they wouldn't grant it. The wrong way is the "set my people free" rant that seems to punctuate alot of your input on this community.

Please tell me how that excuses discrimination that almost no other LGB forum would allow.

I do not give a **** who owns what. Everything online, even in real life, is owned. It does not excuse abusing that "right" or using it in a discriminatory manner. If I pay for and own "Godhatesfags.com" it does not morally excuse me to do that.

They are morally in the wrong. I do not care about laws or technicalities here.

How Ironic you have a V avatar - whose philosophy is very much the opposite of yours. It irritates me how people become fan of things without really caring what they're about, just liking the ring of the philosophy and the flashy action scenes.

Filan · 19-06-2007 6:40pm

I don't think there is ever a need for terms such as ****...regardless of who it comes from..only weakens an argument...and nobody..regardless of who they are deserves to be insulted...whether we like them or not. This thread I feel has become dangerously personal. **** in my view has no place in any society masquerading as civilised...

gandalf · 19-06-2007 6:48pm

Rozie wrote:

Please tell me how that excuses discrimination that almost no other LGB forum would allow.

Which forums, name them?

I do not give a **** who owns what.

Nice attitude to have.

Everything online, even in real life, is owned. It does not excuse abusing that "right" or using it in a discriminatory manner. If I pay for and own "Godhatesfags.com" it does not morally excuse me to do that.

But you're the only person here that sees this apparent "abuse", even other T contributors to this thread have not been offended by this so called crime against T.

They are morally in the wrong. I do not care about laws or technicalities here.

How are they morally wrong. I am sure there are those from the Christian forum that sees the LGB forum as morally wrong. So you don't care about laws etc god please stop with the Monty Pythonese "Help Help I am being oppressed act". In the real world if you actually talk in a reasonable fashion you get alot further, from recall I believe you are a student. You'll discover this when you enter the working world.

How Ironic you have a V avatar - whose philosophy is very much the opposite of yours. It irritates me how people become fan of things without really caring what they're about, just liking the ring of the philosophy and the flashy action scenes.

And Rozie signs off with a personal swipe how typical.

As the C-mod for the whole society section which LGB is part of I for one will be ensuring the T is not added.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:51pm

PeakOutput wrote:

so are you going to ignore my perfectly civil post and the legitimate questions it contained?

I think I already made it clear that Civility is not an issue - I would direct you to studying the style over substance fallacy. If it's "out of nowhere", certainly there shouldn't be aggression, but when there's a build up of sheer idiocy as in this case, civility is just another word for "fake". Your points are also pretty low on the knowledge scale, but I suppose out of some vague level of respect I'll answer them.

PeakOutput wrote:

This thread delivers

rozie, if you can, please answer my question without any any curses or personal attacks as I have never done that to you or even seen you around here before so with that in mind.

1) why is it discrimination for the name not to include t but its ok for it not to include s (for straight) there is a sexuality forum......this is not, as far as i can see, it. it is a forum to discuss lesbian gay and bisexual issues.

Because LGB anymore is considered discrimination - it's LGBT. I have already outlined over pages 5 and 6 why the T should be included. They both go through very similiar experiences.

Straight people do not incur that kind of discrimination based on their sexuality. They are almost never discriminated against - as opposed to Ts who are almost always.

2)why is it discrimination when you can go through the exact same process everyone else here does to set up a forums specifically for "t" issues

Because there would only be 2 or 3 members at most. LGB and T are meant to be one and the same. And going through the process doesn't somehow prove there is no discrimination - after all, if there was, wouldn't it kick in during the process as not to be conspicuous?

3) why is it discrimination for lesbian gay and bisexual people to want to be seperated from "t" people......they are after all different

So are lesbians from gays, probably in roughly the same amount. What's your point? They're as much the same as they are different - there are good reasons why they are grouped, which I have already documented. If there was a competent assertive T here who wasn't a complete wuss they might be able to back me up on this, but sadly, there isn't. I'm trying to get some though.

4) why do you still post here if you hate it so much.

Because not posting here won't make it go away. There is still a serious issue here, something which sends out the wrong message and can ultimately come back to hurt me and others whether i have anything to do with it or not.

The idea of "private property", "if you don't like it leave" - all of these are misconceptions. Forums do not exist in an infinite array of vacuums. It's about time forum owners accepted that they are a part of a social structure that nobody can truly own, and making assertions to the contrary only hurts people even if it seems to make things less unruly on the surface.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:54pm

And Rozie signs off with a personal swipe how typical.

What the **** are you talking about!? Almost every post in reply has been NOTHING but a personal swipe towards me. Why the hell do you care so much when I "sign off" on a personal jive, as opposed to making my entire argument/post about it like most people here? I'm not even going to bother with yoru post based on this.

scojones wrote:

Um, get it right Rozie. Most people on this forum have showed utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards YOU, because of the childish little rant you're on. Mind you, statistics and generalising make baby Jesus cry.

FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the fuck out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you.

FACT: You are a ****ing moron. I have constructed a lengthy and solid argument as to why T belongs with LGB, and you counter with irrelevant assertions. Well done. You get a "special" star.

jesus, do you even read your own posts? That closing comment is offensive to EVERY T. Do you even know what "transsexual" means?

And that is exactly why I'm so pissed off at people like you, thus giving me good reason to be an ass in a manner you don't like.

So your post is worthless. If the mod staff here wasn't corrupt as hell, I'd be reporting that remark.

Nevyn · 19-06-2007 6:56pm

I do not have a problem with people who are trans gendered, I know several people who have transitioned over the years and know well it is the person inside the body is what counts.

I do have a problem with angry aggressive people who fail to address my reasonable questions when I have taken the time to debate with them.

First off boards.ie is a private site and the admins can remove and ban people at will from thier private site.

Secondly Mods are not staff, boards.ie has no staff, staff are employed and get paid Mods do not and are volunteers and yes Mord can be a pratt but that does not mean he can not delete spam from 1 of the nearly 900 forums on the site or that he represents the nearly 400 mods.

Not all LGB are supportive of Trans gendered people.
This has been the growing case of the last 15 years as more is know about gender identifcation disorder.

Yes those who are Trans maybe LGB either by their own definition or by others depending on which gender birth or self defined but that does still not equate.
There are Trans issues that those who are LGB will never have any experience off.

I think a trans sub forum would be good idea and you would be surprised the amount of support it would get.

Yes Ireland had a long way to go and further still to be honest when it comes to trans issues and to gender stereotypes and people who do not fit them but
threatening black listing will not aid you.

Trans people are not the only ones to suffer from gender stereotyping.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 6:58pm

As the C-mod for the whole society section which LGB is part of I for one will be ensuring the T is not added.

Oh wow - a boards.ie mod abusing their power and being a terrible bigot.

How typical.

I honestly can't believe that. People have been horrible, disgusting, and terrible in this topic, but nobody has done ANYTHING so stupid, so selfish, so vile, so full of malice.

Wow. You are pure evil. You really are. Yet again the boards populace will continue to attack me, and not the person who's actually in the wrong...

Rozie · 19-06-2007 7:01pm

Thaedydal wrote:

I do not have a problem with people who are transgendered, I know several people who have transitioned over the years and knwo well it is the person inside the body is what counts.

Don't care. You're still wrong, and you're still defending something that is contrary to their interests.

I do have a problem with angry agressive people who fail to address my reasonible questions when I have taken the time to debate with them.

Oh snaps - shame that's YOU who fits the second part of that. I responded to almost all your points - you have yet to give me the same courtesy.

You're full of ****. This is why I don't care about being aggressive - the people who seem calmest are often the biggest assholes.

Nevyn · 19-06-2007 7:01pm

Alright then who is the person in the wrong, name them.

Rozie wrote:

Don't care. You're still wrong, and you're still defending something that is contrary to their interests.

I don't see how it is in anyones intrest to foist the T on to the existing LGB community here
it will only cause resentment and those that then come here to post who are T will be confused and hurt and that is not honourible.

What would be so wrong with a sub forum off the LGB forum ?

Rozie wrote:

Oh snaps - shame that's YOU who fits the second part of that. I responded to almost all your points - you have yet to give me the same courtesy.

What is it you want me to respond to this is the first time you have addressed me directly.

Rozie wrote:

You're full of ****. This is why I don't care about being aggressive - the people who seem calmest are often the biggest assholes.

No darling I'm a bitch when riled and currently I an trying to help and if you can't see that well then that is your issue.

Karl Hungus · 19-06-2007 7:04pm

Thaedydal wrote:

Alright then who is the person in the wrong, name them.

The jews!

Oh wait, that question wasn't for me, was it?

gandalf · 19-06-2007 7:05pm

Attack you where did I attack you. You did attack me on your post, what in your world there is one rule for you and a different one for me. I am being true to myself. I do not believe that T belongs in the title of LGB but I have said it may warrent a sub forum and I have expressed it in no uncertain terms.

As for the bigot label I am tolerant of peoples sexuality, religion, race and skin colour. Just because I don't agree a label has to be changed doesn't make me a bigot.

Now I expect you to withdraw the bigot comment and the one that I am evil.

PeakOutput · 19-06-2007 7:11pm

Rozie wrote:

I think I already made it clear that Civility is not an issue - I would direct you to studying the style over substance fallacy. If it's "out of nowhere", certainly there shouldn't be aggression, but when there's a build up of sheer idiocy as in this case, civility is just another word for "fake".

I wasn't being fake I was asking you questions that occured to me as I deciphered your posts.

Your points are also pretty low on the knowledge scale, but I suppose out of some vague level of respect I'll answer them.

Thats a nicely veiled unnecessary insult there rozie, im giving you the benefit of the doubt your not doing great so far

Because LGB anymore is considered discrimination

who says???

Straight people do not incur that kind of discrimination based on their sexuality. They are almost never discriminated against - as opposed to Ts who are almost always.

the forum, from what i have read of it, is not solely about discrimination as you seem to think it is. It is there to cover a much wider scope than that which is the sexuality / lifestyle of lgb............to me at least t is a much much bigger "problem" than sexuality and should be dealt with differently and seperately

Because there would only be 2 or 3 members at most.

so maybe its simply not necessary????? as you say there are numerous other forums that can be used and i am sure they have a large t community that qould be better qualiafied to respond to the issues presented in such a forum

LGB and T are meant to be one and the same.

who says??? where are these rules written down?

And going through the process doesn't somehow prove there is no discrimination - after all, if there was, wouldn't it kick in during the process as not to be conspicuous?

if the quest is dealt with the same way as every other then thats exactly what it does

So are lesbians from gays, probably in roughly the same amount.

as far as I can see the action is different but the motivation(wrong word) is not

Because not posting here won't make it go away.

do you not think there are better and less frustrating ways to "fight the t corner"?

your main point seems to be that traditionally they have been grouped together and therefore they should still be...............if we used that logic universally would we not still have laws prohibiting being gay/bi in the first place.........time moves on things change.............the community that uses the lgb forum seems to have agreed they want the name to stay the same..............

do you not think that it would be better for you to fight for a seperate identity to lgbt and make it simply t??

Nevyn · 19-06-2007 7:15pm

Rozie wrote:

Because there would only be 2 or 3 members at most.

See with the rate that boards.ie pops up in google.ie I don't think that it would remain such a small community.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 7:16pm

"a roze by any other name would want to chop it's testicles off" (this is from a mod)

"Go start your own forum with transgender blackjack and transgender hookers." (another mod)

"All I've seen from you is mindless rants. Nobody is going to give a damn about what you think when you yourself come across as an insecure psychopath." - I thought I'd reference this, since it shows how people ignore what's being said and go right for the person instead.

"Why, because it followed a vaguely democratic process? The suggestion was floated, it's relative pros and cons discussed and the community and site owners decided that a change wasn't nessecary. So really what your saying is that people should be ashamed that their community didn't kowtow to your demands? Perhaps we should add Meglomania to the forum description too!"

The other thing they do - write off issues of discrimination as "personal problems".

" No, she's fairly insane alright." - from the person who runs the forum and incidentally refuses to add the T. Rather convenient for him.

"I have no problem with the gays but men who want to be womens. That just sickerns me!!!!!"

"Jim!
Rozie!

Rozie is Jim, Rozie is Jim" - Another Moderator, a Super Mod in fact

" FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the **** out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you."

"As the C-mod for the whole society section which LGB is part of I for one will be ensuring the T is not added." (This one is by far the worst though it doesn't seem so at first - read over it again, it's pure moderator power abuse for personal discriminatory agendas)

Most of these quotes were from mods, not just ordinary members. This really is disgraceful. Karl Hungus and others, it bemuses me as to how you wonder why I think I'm right. It's pretty plainly obvious given that these are the major driving sentiments of my opposition, the others being apathy.

Rozie · 19-06-2007 7:17pm

Thaedydal wrote:

See with the rate that boards.ie pops up in google.ie I don't think that it would remain such a small community.

It would, trust me - after all, if forums of much larger countries lump them together for numbers - how well do you think one for Ireland would fare, especially given our terrible internet penetration?

Please think these things through.

LGB forum needs to change it's name.

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