LGB forum needs to change it's name.

Rozie

Blowfish wrote:

I suggest you reread your original post, it came accross as anything but 'pretty polite'

Have you read the post below it?

It was assertive - it was not vicious or even that aggressive. For the most part it was matter of fact. All that I said there was true, has happened.

If you think that the first post in this topic is too aggressive - then you're proving my point, Ireland is full of apathetic ****ers who don't like anyone believing in anything important.

Filan

It's not an easy question Rozie...I realise that L.G. and B. provide a platform for T..which they would struggle to construct on their own... I really don't have an answer..in what direction should T go? I simply don't know..but the alliance with LGB is not one that I feel particularily comfortable with...friends..cousins yes...siblings no. Simply don't have all the answers...better brains than me might..but I don't...with this being posted on the forementioned T website..which I saw..I can see this spiralling.. be prepared Moderators...national crisis looming!

A danger in feeling that one person can change a system..a few months ago I challenged the Islam site....and didn't realise my own limitations...regardless or how polite..or how aggressive..one person cannot (in 99.999999999% cases!)change the world!

Blowfish

Rozie wrote:

Have you read the post below it?

It was assertive - it was not vicious or even that aggressive.

If you think that the first post in this topic is too aggressive - then you're proving my point, Ireland is full of apathetic ****ers who don't like anyone believing in anything important.

More demanding than aggresive, but that's beside the point, you simply wont get a good response by posting that way.

PeakOutput

so are you going to ignore my perfectly civil post and the legitimate questions it contained?

PeakOutput

Rozie wrote:

But it doesn't make a difference whether I'm aggressive or not - they don't listen.

you seem to be confusing listening to someone and agreeing with them

gandalf

Rozie tbh you have no rights on this forum. You are granted the honour of being allowed to post by the admins who run this site, pay for this site with their time and money.

If you don't like it then you have the right to leave. The right way to do this would have been to requests a sub forum under LGB and I don't see a reason why they wouldn't grant it. The wrong way is the "set my people free" rant that seems to punctuate alot of your input on this community.

Rozie

Blowfish wrote:

More demanding than aggresive, but that's beside the point, you simply wont get a good response by posting that way.

So what would be the way to get a good response, then, pray tell? I sure didn't get any response asking before.

hullaballoo

Rozie wrote:

But come on. Other forums do it - it's not just to do with the majority, but the definition. Do you really think that Irish people, especially the ***** in this topic, are going to be the ones to "finally figure it out!"? Why do they think they're smart enough to beg to differ, yet use the "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO SAY THEES TO US!" rubbish on me? Why is there so much hypocrisy going unnoticed here.

Drivel.

The fact is, that if T does not recieve support from the LGB, who ARE they going to recieve support from? They are not a strong enough entity on their own, such a small minority. They'd be stamped over.

The reasons why they go in with LGB and not some other random grouping is that their experiences are ridiculous similar, but much, much worse in the case of Ts. They suffer the same kind of discrimination. Most people don't care that Ts aren't technically G - they'll still shove them in the same box. It is not "giving in" to group similiarly - as LGBT grouping together is, or should be, all about defying discrimination. Ireland seems to be the one country that doesn't get this, it seems to think that it's just some sort of chat group. It's not.

Reason.

Both LGB and T are about defying gender conventions. They are taking a wild U-Turn from what has historically been the role of sex and gender, and even if that's forgotten, still doing it very different to the majority. Just because one is about preference for another person's gender instead of your own gender does not make them so different.

Biologically, they are also believed to be caused by very similiar things - mostly likely abnormal hormonal bursts in the womb.

Ts are very often LGB within themselves, showing an even stronger biological connection too.

There really is a very, very strong argument as to why T goes with LGBT. It's ****ing pathetic that the people in this topic think they have a real majority - they don't. Most forums go with LGBT, for the reasons I have stated, and because despite some tiffs, it just makes sense as it's the "same sort of thing" even if it's got a different emphasis.

Back to drivel again.

If T breaks from LGB, we recieve next to NO support...If the LGB here does not fully recognise T, this site as a whole should be blacklisted as Transphobic, as being against progression, being viciously conservative, conformist, and apathetic.

...still drivel.

Now, if you coul cut out the drivel, and leave in the reason, people would be far more inclined to listen to your side of things.

As it happens, having cut out the drivel from your post above, and read the bits I've marked 'reason' discretely, I can see where you're coming from.

If there was a T in the forum name, more Irish transsexuals would be inclined to feel like they have somewhere that's just for them to support them and help them. The potential problem with the current forum membership making the decision on it is that transsexuals are underrepresented. As such, people who are not really affected by the (very unique) issues around transsexuality are making a decision on behalf of whatever transsexual community might exist.

That's my take on things just from the above thread. I don't know a whole lot about the LGB forum as it is though, so I could be completely wrong.

scojones

Rozie wrote:

Most Irish people on this forum have shown utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards Transgenderism.

Um, get it right Rozie. Most people on this forum have showed utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards YOU, because of the childish little rant you're on. Mind you, statistics and generalising make baby Jesus cry.

FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the fuck out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you.

Rozie

Crucifix wrote:

Firstly, the word demand. You shouldn't demand anything from boards.ie, it owes you nothing. If you asked politely before and they said no, well that sucks, but that's not carte blanche to be rude and aggressive on here.
Secondly, just because every other board provides doesn't nessicerly mean boards.ie should. Many people have asked nicely for you to give some reasoning. I appreciate you probably made the case on that previous thread, but if you don't post any of it here, this thread remains fairly pointless.

Many of the posts are unkind, but as you said yourself you should ignore people who are trolling. You can't expect to get anywhere if you just keep exchanging abuse.

I'm sorry, but it seems you're a person who doesn't believing in fighting for things. Someone who adores rules and technicalities, but not the idea that the human spirit can transcend them.

I will continue to demand what should be. If you can point me towards another Irish LGBT board that does provide for T properly, then that'd be a start. But it doesn't change the fact that what this one is doing is wrong. As long as that continues, I will continue my "demands". I do not care for your convoluted concepts of ownership and what people are "entitled" to. I believe I should be entitled to be protected on the forum that every where else is meant to do so beyond a shadow of doubt.

You're fighting for rules and technicalities which excuse bigotry and social exclusion.

You may want to rethink why you'd want to defend such concepts.

Karl Hungus

Cartoon_Head wrote:

I've read too many stories of emotionally disturbed people causing themselves or others harm based on things that happened in internet forums / chatrooms so perhaps it would be prudent for everyone to consider that before taking any more swipes at Rozie or anyone else for that matter.

Although Irish gun laws are thankfully not as retarded as U.S. laws I would still be a bit wary of what a person with as many issues as Rozie could be capable of doing if he was pushed too far.

Seung-Hui Cho anyone?

I think this point is one of the most sensible things said on this thread.

But I think that there's far too many people here that will innocently reply, yet have their reply taken as a swipe by Rozie, as she just seem to read whatever she wants into the post. So it's all well and good to tell people not to take swipes, but that doesn't factor in what Rozie chooses to take as a swipe.

I don't think it's a good idea at all to even give Rozie the opportunity to interpret people's responses as hostile or not. This thread really should've been locked a long time ago, and Rozie banned.

Rozie

Hobart wrote:

I could not agree more with Cartoon Head. It's all very easy to point the finger and yell at the "different one" or the "one with issues" . Yea yea yea, we all know that rozie has a way about her that would not endear her to most people from a social perspective. This may or may not cause her to ask things in a direct or rude manner. So fooking what? Ignore the thread that you find dis-tasteful, instead of regurgitating the same ol' "this is boards, blah blah blah" type post that not only make you look like a piece of the borg, but which are also as mind numbingly repetitive as are the rants you complain about.

If you have fook all original or helpful to say, well then, say fook all.

Yes, this is a great post. You'll notice it isn't necessarily agreeing with me either - so you can't accuse me of that.

It's great because it's absolutely true. If you don't like my attitude, you don't have to post in the topic. Almost all of you, especially people like Karl Hungus, have gone to special effort to hound me wherever I post on this forums - the complete opposite of the reaction you'd expect if they didn't like what I'm saying.

They're dramawhores.

On the other hand, I cannot ignore the blatant exclusion and discrimination, as well as the moderator corruption on this board. It doesn't go away if I ignore it - it affects things, my ranting does not if you ignore it, at worst it will actually bring a little more tolerance in the world from the few people that get what I'm saying. And they do exist.

PeakOutput

Rozie wrote:

Yes, this is a great post. You'll notice it isn't necessarily agreeing with me either - so you can't accuse me of that.

<snip>

in the world from the few people that get what I'm saying. And they do exist.

so are you going to keep ignoring this post????

rozie, if you can, please answer my question without any any curses or personal attacks as I have never done that to you or even seen you around here before so with that in mind.

1) why is it discrimination for the name not to include t but its ok for it not to include s (for straight) there is a sexuality forum......this is not, as far as i can see, it. it is a forum to discuss lesbian gay and bisexual issues.

2)why is it discrimination when you can go through the exact same process everyone else here does to set up a forums specifically for "t" issues

3) why is it discrimination for lesbian gay and bisexual people to want to be seperated from "t" people......they are after all different

4) why do you still post here if you hate it so much.

a simple yes i am ignoring it or no i am about to answer will do so i know weather to keep an eye on the thread or not

Rev Hellfire

Rozie wrote:

If T breaks from LGB, we recieve next to NO support. And that's exactly what happened in the LGB forum here - on numerous occasions Stark and the others refused to protect Transgenderism for attack, shrugging their shoulders at it when ever I raised an objection.

Once again we have another one of rozie's unsubstantiated claims of discrimination from within the LGB forum and the implication of approval of it from the moderators. Perhaps rozie will break the habit of a life time and actual provide concrete evidence of this heinous crime.

hullaballoo

scojones wrote:

Um, get it right Rozie. Most people on this forum have showed utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards YOU, because of the childish little rant you're on. Mind you, statistics and generalising make baby Jesus cry.

FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the fuck out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you.

Ffs sjones, give it a rest, will you?

Rozie

gandalf wrote:

Rozie tbh you have no rights on this forum. You are granted the honour of being allowed to post by the admins who run this site, pay for this site with their time and money.

If you don't like it then you have the right to leave. The right way to do this would have been to requests a sub forum under LGB and I don't see a reason why they wouldn't grant it. The wrong way is the "set my people free" rant that seems to punctuate alot of your input on this community.

Please tell me how that excuses discrimination that almost no other LGB forum would allow.

I do not give a **** who owns what. Everything online, even in real life, is owned. It does not excuse abusing that "right" or using it in a discriminatory manner. If I pay for and own "Godhatesfags.com" it does not morally excuse me to do that.

They are morally in the wrong. I do not care about laws or technicalities here.

How Ironic you have a V avatar - whose philosophy is very much the opposite of yours. It irritates me how people become fan of things without really caring what they're about, just liking the ring of the philosophy and the flashy action scenes.

Filan

I don't think there is ever a need for terms such as ****...regardless of who it comes from..only weakens an argument...and nobody..regardless of who they are deserves to be insulted...whether we like them or not. This thread I feel has become dangerously personal. **** in my view has no place in any society masquerading as civilised...

gandalf

Rozie wrote:

Please tell me how that excuses discrimination that almost no other LGB forum would allow.

Which forums, name them?

I do not give a **** who owns what.

Nice attitude to have.

Everything online, even in real life, is owned. It does not excuse abusing that "right" or using it in a discriminatory manner. If I pay for and own "Godhatesfags.com" it does not morally excuse me to do that.

But you're the only person here that sees this apparent "abuse", even other T contributors to this thread have not been offended by this so called crime against T.

They are morally in the wrong. I do not care about laws or technicalities here.

How are they morally wrong. I am sure there are those from the Christian forum that sees the LGB forum as morally wrong. So you don't care about laws etc god please stop with the Monty Pythonese "Help Help I am being oppressed act". In the real world if you actually talk in a reasonable fashion you get alot further, from recall I believe you are a student. You'll discover this when you enter the working world.

How Ironic you have a V avatar - whose philosophy is very much the opposite of yours. It irritates me how people become fan of things without really caring what they're about, just liking the ring of the philosophy and the flashy action scenes.

And Rozie signs off with a personal swipe how typical.

As the C-mod for the whole society section which LGB is part of I for one will be ensuring the T is not added.

Rozie

PeakOutput wrote:

so are you going to ignore my perfectly civil post and the legitimate questions it contained?

I think I already made it clear that Civility is not an issue - I would direct you to studying the style over substance fallacy. If it's "out of nowhere", certainly there shouldn't be aggression, but when there's a build up of sheer idiocy as in this case, civility is just another word for "fake". Your points are also pretty low on the knowledge scale, but I suppose out of some vague level of respect I'll answer them.

PeakOutput wrote:

This thread delivers


rozie, if you can, please answer my question without any any curses or personal attacks as I have never done that to you or even seen you around here before so with that in mind.

1) why is it discrimination for the name not to include t but its ok for it not to include s (for straight) there is a sexuality forum......this is not, as far as i can see, it. it is a forum to discuss lesbian gay and bisexual issues.

Because LGB anymore is considered discrimination - it's LGBT. I have already outlined over pages 5 and 6 why the T should be included. They both go through very similiar experiences.

Straight people do not incur that kind of discrimination based on their sexuality. They are almost never discriminated against - as opposed to Ts who are almost always.

2)why is it discrimination when you can go through the exact same process everyone else here does to set up a forums specifically for "t" issues

Because there would only be 2 or 3 members at most. LGB and T are meant to be one and the same. And going through the process doesn't somehow prove there is no discrimination - after all, if there was, wouldn't it kick in during the process as not to be conspicuous?

3) why is it discrimination for lesbian gay and bisexual people to want to be seperated from "t" people......they are after all different

So are lesbians from gays, probably in roughly the same amount. What's your point? They're as much the same as they are different - there are good reasons why they are grouped, which I have already documented. If there was a competent assertive T here who wasn't a complete wuss they might be able to back me up on this, but sadly, there isn't. I'm trying to get some though.

4) why do you still post here if you hate it so much.

Because not posting here won't make it go away. There is still a serious issue here, something which sends out the wrong message and can ultimately come back to hurt me and others whether i have anything to do with it or not.

The idea of "private property", "if you don't like it leave" - all of these are misconceptions. Forums do not exist in an infinite array of vacuums. It's about time forum owners accepted that they are a part of a social structure that nobody can truly own, and making assertions to the contrary only hurts people even if it seems to make things less unruly on the surface.

Rozie

And Rozie signs off with a personal swipe how typical.

What the **** are you talking about!? Almost every post in reply has been NOTHING but a personal swipe towards me. Why the hell do you care so much when I "sign off" on a personal jive, as opposed to making my entire argument/post about it like most people here? I'm not even going to bother with yoru post based on this.

scojones wrote:

Um, get it right Rozie. Most people on this forum have showed utterly TERRIBLE attitudes towards YOU, because of the childish little rant you're on. Mind you, statistics and generalising make baby Jesus cry.

FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the fuck out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you.

FACT: You are a ****ing moron. I have constructed a lengthy and solid argument as to why T belongs with LGB, and you counter with irrelevant assertions. Well done. You get a "special" star.

jesus, do you even read your own posts? That closing comment is offensive to EVERY T. Do you even know what "transsexual" means?

And that is exactly why I'm so pissed off at people like you, thus giving me good reason to be an ass in a manner you don't like.

So your post is worthless. If the mod staff here wasn't corrupt as hell, I'd be reporting that remark.

Nevyn

I do not have a problem with people who are trans gendered, I know several people who have transitioned over the years and know well it is the person inside the body is what counts.

I do have a problem with angry aggressive people who fail to address my reasonable questions when I have taken the time to debate with them.

First off boards.ie is a private site and the admins can remove and ban people at will from thier private site.

Secondly Mods are not staff, boards.ie has no staff, staff are employed and get paid Mods do not and are volunteers and yes Mord can be a pratt but that does not mean he can not delete spam from 1 of the nearly 900 forums on the site or that he represents the nearly 400 mods.

Not all LGB are supportive of Trans gendered people.
This has been the growing case of the last 15 years as more is know about gender identifcation disorder.

Yes those who are Trans maybe LGB either by their own definition or by others depending on which gender birth or self defined but that does still not equate.
There are Trans issues that those who are LGB will never have any experience off.

I think a trans sub forum would be good idea and you would be surprised the amount of support it would get.

Yes Ireland had a long way to go and further still to be honest when it comes to trans issues and to gender stereotypes and people who do not fit them but
threatening black listing will not aid you.

Trans people are not the only ones to suffer from gender stereotyping.

Rozie

As the C-mod for the whole society section which LGB is part of I for one will be ensuring the T is not added.

Oh wow - a boards.ie mod abusing their power and being a terrible bigot.

How typical.

I honestly can't believe that. People have been horrible, disgusting, and terrible in this topic, but nobody has done ANYTHING so stupid, so selfish, so vile, so full of malice.

Wow. You are pure evil. You really are. Yet again the boards populace will continue to attack me, and not the person who's actually in the wrong...

Rozie

Thaedydal wrote:

I do not have a problem with people who are transgendered, I know several people who have transitioned over the years and knwo well it is the person inside the body is what counts.

Don't care. You're still wrong, and you're still defending something that is contrary to their interests.

I do have a problem with angry agressive people who fail to address my reasonible questions when I have taken the time to debate with them.

Oh snaps - shame that's YOU who fits the second part of that. I responded to almost all your points - you have yet to give me the same courtesy.

You're full of ****. This is why I don't care about being aggressive - the people who seem calmest are often the biggest assholes.

Nevyn

Alright then who is the person in the wrong, name them.

Rozie wrote:

Don't care. You're still wrong, and you're still defending something that is contrary to their interests.

I don't see how it is in anyones intrest to foist the T on to the existing LGB community here
it will only cause resentment and those that then come here to post who are T will be confused and hurt and that is not honourible.

What would be so wrong with a sub forum off the LGB forum ?

Rozie wrote:

Oh snaps - shame that's YOU who fits the second part of that. I responded to almost all your points - you have yet to give me the same courtesy.

What is it you want me to respond to this is the first time you have addressed me directly.

Rozie wrote:

You're full of ****. This is why I don't care about being aggressive - the people who seem calmest are often the biggest assholes.

No darling I'm a bitch when riled and currently I an trying to help and if you can't see that well then that is your issue.

Karl Hungus

Thaedydal wrote:

Alright then who is the person in the wrong, name them.

The jews!

Oh wait, that question wasn't for me, was it?

gandalf

Attack you where did I attack you. You did attack me on your post, what in your world there is one rule for you and a different one for me. I am being true to myself. I do not believe that T belongs in the title of LGB but I have said it may warrent a sub forum and I have expressed it in no uncertain terms.

As for the bigot label I am tolerant of peoples sexuality, religion, race and skin colour. Just because I don't agree a label has to be changed doesn't make me a bigot.

Now I expect you to withdraw the bigot comment and the one that I am evil.

PeakOutput

Rozie wrote:

I think I already made it clear that Civility is not an issue - I would direct you to studying the style over substance fallacy. If it's "out of nowhere", certainly there shouldn't be aggression, but when there's a build up of sheer idiocy as in this case, civility is just another word for "fake".

I wasn't being fake I was asking you questions that occured to me as I deciphered your posts.

Your points are also pretty low on the knowledge scale, but I suppose out of some vague level of respect I'll answer them.

Thats a nicely veiled unnecessary insult there rozie, im giving you the benefit of the doubt your not doing great so far

Because LGB anymore is considered discrimination

who says???

Straight people do not incur that kind of discrimination based on their sexuality. They are almost never discriminated against - as opposed to Ts who are almost always.

the forum, from what i have read of it, is not solely about discrimination as you seem to think it is. It is there to cover a much wider scope than that which is the sexuality / lifestyle of lgb............to me at least t is a much much bigger "problem" than sexuality and should be dealt with differently and seperately

Because there would only be 2 or 3 members at most.

so maybe its simply not necessary????? as you say there are numerous other forums that can be used and i am sure they have a large t community that qould be better qualiafied to respond to the issues presented in such a forum

LGB and T are meant to be one and the same.

who says??? where are these rules written down?

And going through the process doesn't somehow prove there is no discrimination - after all, if there was, wouldn't it kick in during the process as not to be conspicuous?

if the quest is dealt with the same way as every other then thats exactly what it does

So are lesbians from gays, probably in roughly the same amount.

as far as I can see the action is different but the motivation(wrong word) is not

Because not posting here won't make it go away.

do you not think there are better and less frustrating ways to "fight the t corner"?

your main point seems to be that traditionally they have been grouped together and therefore they should still be...............if we used that logic universally would we not still have laws prohibiting being gay/bi in the first place.........time moves on things change.............the community that uses the lgb forum seems to have agreed they want the name to stay the same..............

do you not think that it would be better for you to fight for a seperate identity to lgbt and make it simply t??

Nevyn

Rozie wrote:

Because there would only be 2 or 3 members at most.

See with the rate that boards.ie pops up in google.ie I don't think that it would remain such a small community.

Rozie

"a roze by any other name would want to chop it's testicles off" (this is from a mod)

"Go start your own forum with transgender blackjack and transgender hookers." (another mod)

"All I've seen from you is mindless rants. Nobody is going to give a damn about what you think when you yourself come across as an insecure psychopath." - I thought I'd reference this, since it shows how people ignore what's being said and go right for the person instead.

"Why, because it followed a vaguely democratic process? The suggestion was floated, it's relative pros and cons discussed and the community and site owners decided that a change wasn't nessecary. So really what your saying is that people should be ashamed that their community didn't kowtow to your demands? Perhaps we should add Meglomania to the forum description too!"

The other thing they do - write off issues of discrimination as "personal problems".

" No, she's fairly insane alright." - from the person who runs the forum and incidentally refuses to add the T. Rather convenient for him.

"I have no problem with the gays but men who want to be womens. That just sickerns me!!!!!"

"Jim!
Rozie!

Rozie is Jim, Rozie is Jim" - Another Moderator, a Super Mod in fact



" FACT: There is no T in Lesbian.

FACT: There is no T in Gay.

FACT: There is no T in Bisexual.

So get the **** out (that's GTFO to us cool kids) and take your wig and high heels with you."

"As the C-mod for the whole society section which LGB is part of I for one will be ensuring the T is not added." (This one is by far the worst though it doesn't seem so at first - read over it again, it's pure moderator power abuse for personal discriminatory agendas)


Most of these quotes were from mods, not just ordinary members. This really is disgraceful. Karl Hungus and others, it bemuses me as to how you wonder why I think I'm right. It's pretty plainly obvious given that these are the major driving sentiments of my opposition, the others being apathy.

Rozie

Thaedydal wrote:

See with the rate that boards.ie pops up in google.ie I don't think that it would remain such a small community.

It would, trust me - after all, if forums of much larger countries lump them together for numbers - how well do you think one for Ireland would fare, especially given our terrible internet penetration?

Please think these things through.