100 Professors Question The 9/11 Commission Report

Nick_oliveri

Well, as much as i hate all wars and the killing of innocent human beings i am not very much shocked by it. There will always be a scapegoat of evil and some sort of large reported or unreported conflict going on.

We should take the Bush campaign for Iraq as an example, some good PR and a doctored intelligence report and everyones on board shouting scary buzzwords. Its that simple. But jaysus, when ya think about it, its so much better over in Iraq now.

The climate is different now. The Iraq war is obviously some bull**** agenda someone had going on.... Oil, Saddam or whatever. And this climate has changed because most people accepted it and still accept it..... because its so much better over there now. They are free!!!

It will happen again, because its well known what the western peoples reaction to the Iraq war was, they got over it and accepted that their sons and daughters were probably going over to die.

Here we are and Bush is still in power (however short his remaining term may be) a resolution was veto'ed by himself that kept the soldiers there indefinatley.....

Would i want them to pull out? No i wouldnt, but something will have to drastically change in the pentagons tactics for things to get any better and i dont see that happening.

http://pressesc.com/01182440979_its_ok_to_kill_iraqis_tony_snow

So much better now..

Edit: Have things gone off topic? :P

So Glad

Oh my....why would you want them to stay there? It's only more foreign occupation for people to give out about. Remember, American occupation of Saudi Arabia was a big reason why 9/11 happened.

Nick_oliveri

So Glad wrote:

Oh my....why would you want them to stay there? It's only more foreign occupation for people to give out about. Remember, American occupation of Saudi Arabia was a big reason why 9/11 happened.

Because they need to sort out the violence and have a capable government to manage and police the masses of pissed off/displaced Iraqis, they cant just leave and let them sort it out. Militants would take over. And burn the place to the ground. Then some other country would take notice either of the country as an asset or as a direct threat and another war starts.

jessop1

Nick surely you are having a laugh Iraq is worse now that its been since the war was "won" and there is no sign of it getting better, look at the amount of violent deaths that are still happening every day and the people are more divided now than ever.

You are right it will happen again regardless of which parties or politicians are in government. Iran is next. then WWIII. Boom. :eek:

Nick_oliveri

jessop1 wrote:

Nick surely you are having a laugh Iraq is worse now that its been since the war was "won" and there is no sign of it getting better, look at the amount of violent deaths that are still happening every day and the people are more divided now than ever.

Yes i know all of that. But you cant seriously even comprehend leaving those Iraqis on their own, unhelped by their so called "government", whatever its priorities may be if the US pulled out. I truly doubt that this is a fixable affair, until the Iraqis REALLY take charge and show that they can control or even remove the esculating ultra-violence.

Diogenes

jessop1 wrote:

Nick surely you are having a laugh Iraq is worse now that its been since the war was "won" and there is no sign of it getting better, look at the amount of violent deaths that are still happening every day and the people are more divided now than ever.

You are right it will happen again regardless of which parties or politicians are in government. Iran is next. then WWIII. Boom. :eek:

Might I recommend Imperial Life in the Emerald City it details the hubris and arrogance of the US administration in post war Iraq. Where you see malice, there is actually incompetence.

jessop1

A litany of heinous war crimes have been deliberately committed, this cannot be passed off as incompetence. Of course there's incompetence too.

The occupying forces are fuelling the insurgency - Theres a huge body of evidence that this is being done deliberately - of course it is.

Iraq would be better off if they pulled out immediately, it couldnt get any worse the place is ALREADY BURNING TO THE GROUND!

Diogenes

jessop1 wrote:

A litany of heinous war crimes have been deliberately committed, this cannot be passed off as incompetence. Of course there's incompetence too.

I think the opposite is true.

The occupying forces are fuelling the insurgency - Theres a huge body of evidence that this is being done deliberately - of course it is.

Could you provide any examples of this evidence?

Iraq would be better off if they pulled out immediately, it couldnt get any worse the place is ALREADY BURNING TO THE GROUND!

It could seriously be much worse, massive geoncide, instability spreading throughout the region, a Kurdish limited invasion of Southern Turkey, sporadic intervent by Iran and Saudi Arabia, leading to conflicts between these countries.

Like it or lump it Jessop1 they are there. The botched withdrawl from the Vietnam conflict led to the Khmer Rouge seizing power in Cambodia, arguably one of the most psychotic tyrants of the 20th century. Did you ever happen to come across the "killing fields", or the excellent book, "first they killed my father"? If the US up'd and left overnight there would be a vaccum, certainly a large scale civil war, and possibly the rise of violent agressive Militant Islamic state.

The most interesting and plausible exit strategies cannot be implimented until after the Bush administration leave office. Because they involve bringing states like Iran into the equation and Neo Cons won't do that. I marched aganist the war, but as horrendous the US administration are they cannot extract themselves overnight.

And to suggest that this is a situation that they engineered is patently absurd. Why would Bush stride across an aircraft carier festooned with a banner saying "mission acomplished"? Why would they claim they would be greeted as liberators, when not only did they knew they would not, and infact would create this chaos themselves?

There is no rhyme nor reason to your assertion jessop1. Please elaborate.

So Glad

Diogenes wrote:

jessop1. Please elaborate.

Jess, I'd be amazed if you bothered. It's like spending all your efforts rowing up the river when it wants to head down no matter what...

oscarBravo

So Glad wrote:

Remember, American occupation of Saudi Arabia was a big reason why 9/11 happened.

Saudi Arabia is occupied by America??

Diogenes

oscarBravo wrote:

Saudi Arabia is occupied by America??

I assume he is refering to US troops in Saudi.

So Glad wrote:

Jess, I'd be amazed if you bothered. It's like spending all your efforts rowing up the river when it wants to head down no matter what...

So Glad I have an view of the Iraq conflict based on the facts and opinions of media sources. I'm lucky that I can count primary (first hand accounts from people who have been there, directly relayed to me) and secondary, (the news media, books, tv, documentaries, and newspapers) sources to draw my opinion. Someone is stating something that is categorically the opposite of my opinion, and I am asking them to elaborate. Is that too difficult to understand? Furthermore, you've accused me of stuffing words into anothers mouth, yet here I am, asking for the facts that someone claims to have, a direct conflict of what you claim I do.

If you really don't understand why I'm asking that question I have to ask, why contribute to this debate at all?

bonkey

So Glad wrote:

Jess, I'd be amazed if you bothered. It's like spending all your efforts rowing up the river when it wants to head down no matter what...

When we ask questions, you comment that answering them seems to be a waste of time.

When we don't ask questions, but infer what your argument suggests your answer would be, you get annoyed that we're putting words into your mouth.

Doesn't leave us with much.

oscarBravo

Diogenes wrote:

I assume he is refering to US troops in Saudi.

I would assume so also, but does he also believe that Germany is occupied by the US?

It may seem that I'm being pedantic for the sake of it, but I'm a believer in accuracy when trying to convey a point. It surprises me when those who style themselves "truth-seekers" seem uninterested in factual accuracy, as if they are somehow different things.

jessop1

There is reams of evidence of deliberate war crimes, atrocities and provokation such as the deliberate use of illegal and inhumane weaponry, false flag "terrorist" bombings in iraq and elsewhere, torture etc etc the list goes on. Lets not play dumb again that that does not exist. Or play even dumber and call it incompentency.

For anyone who is genuinely interesting in finding out about this stuff and not trying to cover it up, there are a good few links here theres a lot more available online all you have to do is a little searching.

bonkey

While I'm of the opinion that a lot of the allegations regarding Iraq are dubious or overblown, lets say for argument's sake that your'e right.

What does it show?

It shows that, in war, the US treat their enemies like they always seem to have.

However, you seem to have taken this as some sort of indicator as to how the US treat everyone including their own citizens. I don't believe that holds up to scrutiny.

While there have undoubtedly been historical cases of oppression of minorities in the US and so forth, and yes, there is evidence that the US isn't all smiles and roses when it comes to caring about the wellbeing of people outside their own borders...this still says nothing about how they would treat their own people.

jessop1

it shows that the forces in control of the US and the rest of the zionist regimes are mass muderers which was the original point I was making when I first brought up the iraq war on this thread.

Diogenes

jessop1 wrote:

There is reams of evidence of deliberate war crimes, atrocities and provokation such as the deliberate use of illegal and inhumane weaponry, false flag "terrorist" bombings in iraq and elsewhere, torture etc etc the list goes on. Lets not play dumb again that that does not exist. Or play even dumber and call it incompentency.

For anyone who is genuinely interesting in finding out about this stuff and not trying to cover it up, there are a good few links here theres a lot more available online all you have to do is a little searching.

Yeah instead of waving me in the direction of google, and illumanti-news.com how about you give me a credible example of specific false flag terrorist attacks commited by the US in Iraq.

Diogenes

jessop1 wrote:

There is reams of evidence of deliberate war crimes, atrocities and provokation such as the deliberate use of illegal and inhumane weaponry, false flag "terrorist" bombings in iraq and elsewhere, torture etc etc the list goes on. Lets not play dumb again that that does not exist. Or play even dumber and call it incompentency.

For anyone who is genuinely interesting in finding out about this stuff and not trying to cover it up, there are a good few links here theres a lot more available online all you have to do is a little searching.

Yeah instead of waving me in the direction of google, and illumanti-news.com how about you give me a credible example of specific false flag terrorist attacks commited by the US in Iraq.

jessop1

no offence but the only place I'm waving you is away as I dont believe there is any point in trying to convince you of anything.

For objective inquirers, as I said, there is a huge list of detailed links on the illuminati news site.

one recent example of evidence of a false flag in iraq

Iraqis Accuse U.S. Of Bombing Shrine: Both Sunnis and Shia say bombing a plot to incite sectarian violence

US occupiers complicit in Sammara blast

Diogenes

jessop1 wrote:

Iraqis Accuse U.S. Of Bombing Shrine: Both Sunnis and Shia say bombing a plot to incite sectarian violence

This links to prisonplanet, it's been repeatadly demostrated on this forum that Alex Jones, is a lying decietful fraud, and not a credible source of anything, except BS.

US occupiers complicit in Sammara blast

Hmmm

From the article

Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei blamed the intelligence services of the Zionist regime

The Militant Attaloyah of Iran blames Zionists and the US for the attack without offering any evidence to support this assertion?

Thats a credible source to you jessop1?

meglome

Kernunos wrote:

ummm, i am actually a bit loath to post on this cuz of the obvious hostility going on. Can honestly say i have not looked at the Conspiracy Theory boards before so i dont know the history between the posters but i have to agree with Bonkers on his point, what authority does a professor of music, anthropology or theology have to say on the subject. They are perfectly entitled to their opinion but their area of expertise, the thing that makes them stand out as 'educated intelligent academics' lies in fields that have nothing to do the 9/11 attacks. Surely someone who has researched this event and read all the available literature and theories, as i presume that Jessop has done, would be more informed and a better source than these professors. The crux of what i am saying is that just because someone has an advanced degree does not make them a relevent commentator on something, unless their degree is in that particular field.

Like i said i dont know the history going on here but as a first time viewer Bonkers seems to be the one asking simple questions the answers to which i would be interested in hearing. Consider me a clean slate who has not made up my mind with regards the 9/11 attacks, but after reading this thread i have not seen anything that would make me believe it was a conspiracy.

I'm with you here. I'm interested in the discussion but I don't have the patience for the slogging match.

Some elements of American society refuse to believe that a bunch of mere Arabs could easily cause all this death and destruction. America is simply too great for that to be possible. But the reality is the Americans have a way of ignoring the glaring problems within their society and constantly patting themselves on the back. Most of what happened on 9/11 happened because 1. The US security agencies just didn't bother to talk to one another as they never have. 2. There was simple ineptitude; they couldn't initially even find the planes as their transponders were turned off.

Has everyone told the truth about what happened since... absolutely not. But they're simply doing what governments do... covering their asses. Their security comes out of all this looking totally half assed which is what it was. To move from there to some super conspiracy is just not believable.

bonkey

jessop1 wrote:

it shows that the forces in control of the US and the rest of the zionist regimes are mass muderers which was the original point I was making when I first brought up the iraq war on this thread.

The point you were making is effectively given that they commit mass murder outside their borders, why not within.

The exact quote was: They have murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents in Iraq and the middle east do you think 3000+ on 911 means anything to them?

The point I am making is that showing a nation will commit atrocities outside its borders on the civilians of nations it has decided are "the enemy" does not establish that they will do so within their borders to their own people.

I'd also add that the "zionist regimes" comment only weakens your case.

meglome

jessop1 wrote:

it shows that the forces in control of the US and the rest of the zionist regimes are mass muderers which was the original point I was making when I first brought up the iraq war on this thread.

I think we can assume safely quite a lot of incompetence on the part of the US in this war. Did the US arms industry push for a nice expensive war in Iraq, I would think they did. Are there atrocities committed across the board, I would think yes. Is it possible that Black Ops take place and the Americans wouldn't want anyone to find out, sure very possible - it's a dirty tit for tat war after all. But I can't honestly believe that anyone thinks they wanted things to go this way, it makes the US look very bad. I can't honestly believe that anyone thinks just because they are fighting this dirty war against an 'enemy' that they can also do these same things to their own citizens and have people go along with it.

And zionist regimes... don't want to be insulting but as soon as I hear someone say that I almost assume them to be a conspiracy nut who will never listen to any sense.

jessop1

The prison planet report is based on witness reports, linked in the article. Undoubtedly the ayatollah statement is based on the same information

As I've said before, its not about the "US nation" or what "it" would or wouldnt do to its own people inside its own borders.

The people I'm calling mass murderers are not "the americans" or "the british", they are the forces that control those regimes and yes they a called zionists, among other things, for eg the illuminati or the new world order, perhaps you've heard of them.

It'd be nice to bury your head in the sand and pretend they dont exist, but take a look around you this world is a cesspit of horror and evil and its them wots doing it.

Diogenes

jessop1 wrote:

The prison planet report is based on witness reports, linked in the article. Undoubtedly the ayatollah statement is based on the same information

Theres nothing other than circumstantial claims and suspicions in both those articles.

Theres no forensics, no evidence just people who are already predisposed to distrust the US administration making accusations.

As I've said before, its not about the "US nation" or what "it" would or wouldnt do to its own people inside its own borders.

The people I'm calling mass murderers are not "the americans" or "the british", they are the forces that control those regimes and yes they a called zionists, among other things, for eg the illuminati or the new world order, perhaps you've heard of them.

Again for the third time on this thread I don't suppose you're ready to write "J'accuse" and name names yet?

It'd be nice to bury your head in the sand and pretend they dont exist, but take a look around you this world is a cesspit of horror and evil and its them wots doing it.

Alternatively you could just admit that the world has always been a cesspit of horror and evil and inhumanity and accept this as business as usual.

bonkey

jessop1 wrote:

It'd be nice to bury your head in the sand and pretend they dont exist,

I don't pretend they don't exist, nor do I bury my head in the sand.

I keep an open mind and ask for anyone alleging their existence to produce evidence rather than innuendo, assumption and supposition. When that evidence is forthcoming, I evaluate it analytically, without predisposition to a chosen outcome.

I ask questions and base my opinion on the answers I receive.

jessop1

The whole problem here is that the the gulf between whats going on in the world and what people are led to believe (and very effectively so) is so vast as to seem too unbelievable to be true.

Bonkey and Diogenes are clever, no doubt. They know that the play dumb and act incredulous approach, coupled with unreasonable requests for absolute proof reinforces that sense of unbelievability. Lets not forget the debunkers bible either

And yet if you go and do even a little research on "the illuminati", "new world order", "freemasons" "bilderberg" "secret societies" etc etc..., even the most sceptical should be asking themselves, hang on something is going on here, whats with all these groups of poweful and elite getting together in secret? among them, they literally have the power to control the world. ie energy, industry finance, government, military, media etc - everything that drives the world as we know it. Do you think clever guys like bonkey and diogenes cant put 2 and 2 together to realise something is going on?

Edit: oh and by the way if you take a look at who benefits from the War industry and related industries, guess what, you'll find its the same people who are members of these secret societies and groups.

bonkey

jessop1 wrote:

even the most sceptical should be asking themselves, hang on something is going on here, whats with all these groups of poweful and elite getting together in secret?

No. The skeptical should ask "could something be going on here" or "what is going on here".

Do you think clever guys like bonkey and diogenes cant put 2 and 2 together to realise something is going on?

You say "putting 2 and 2 together".
I say "making assumptions based on what strikes you as plausible".

Edit: oh and by the way if you take a look at who benefits from the War industry and related industries, guess what, you'll find its the same people who are members of these secret societies and groups.

Impresssive. Not only do you have knowledge of the agenda of the "forces in control of the zionist regimes", you know who their members are.

Incidentally, do you not find it suspicious that there are so many of these secret organisations? Do you believe they are all the same, but working under different names, or do you believe that when you refer to "the forces in control" you literally mean "forces" because there's so many of them?

jessop1

their memberships are greatly interwoven wth each other.

That they would use their collective power to achieve their own ends and agenda is not only plausible but obvious.

nacho libre

The CIA family jewels have just been released. Now i imagine at the time a lot of these events were taking place this board was in existence. Some people would be on here saying these events were left-wing conspiracies devoid of evidence. Yet that is the very point - a successful black op leaves little evidence - if any at all - as to who the perpetrators are. The Israelis learnt this lesson from the botched Lavon affair.
History is littered with deception and propaganda by major powers to advance their less than noble aims and as we all knows history repeats itself. With that in mind there is an obvious fundamental psychological reason people need to dismiss that governments actually sometimes conspire (conversely the same is true of people who see conspiracies in everything). It illustrates that intellect is subservient to ego and conditional dictates in many of these individuals.
This would explain why there was widespread belief Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction.

ONE OTHER THING:
"I can't honestly believe that anyone thinks just because they are fighting this dirty war against an 'enemy' that they can also do these same things to their own citizens and have people go along with it."

Can you believe US goverment knowingly sent there troops off to Iraq to fight and die in there thousands based on a flagitious lie. Also, that some people still believe the stated reason for doing so.