No Manhunt 2 in the UK

thelordofcheese

jimi_t wrote:

And? Maybe I'm wrong, but I still can't find conclusive evidence that videogame escapism leads to real-life violence. I mean, it could (and I stress could) even lead to a more stable society, given that it offers people a socially acceptable outlet to vent anti-social tendencies.

I'm not saying it does (nice leap btw), i was just pointing out that the focal point of the manhunt games has been to simulate killings up close and personal, and thats all it does

jimi_t wrote:

He is in favour of letting people make up their own mind, yet bans a video game? Bit of an oxymoron, no?

Not really, but i see why you might think that.
The whole point i was getting at was that the censor is quite lenient in these matters.
Given that, i think that the decision shows that the content of Manhunt 2 is above and beyond the original, and to such a degree the IFCO think it warents this kind of ban.
Also it's worth noting that IFCO and the BBFC usually ask for cuts to be made to a game if it's borderline, so this wasn't the first port of call.

jimi_t wrote:

So? Are high levels of graphic violence that much of a risk to a world which has been submitted to 365/24h coverage of the atrocities in Iraq etc...

To be fair, that is reporting news so it's not really comparable. And once again, i never said that these were a risk to the world or any other hyperbole.

jimi_t wrote:

Why should decisions like that be made for us; I'm curious. This draws serious parallels to the banning of everything from "Lolita" to "Rosemary's Baby" in the last century by censors.

Firstly it's the job of the IFCO to present ratings on media, and to see if they break obscentiy laws, which we can only assume manhunt 2 does (unless someone here has managed to get a copy of the game).
The rating system covers 99.9% of everything, with some porn films being the only thing that recieve a ban and for the ban to be upheld after an appeal (which manhunt 2 can still do).

I notice nobody complained about them untill this happened, so have they always been evil censors, or is it just that this one strikes a chord with gamers and we assume that the fault lies with the IFCO for doing their job, as opposed to rockstar for pushing this as far as they can?

I doubt this is going to be a perminant ban, rockstar will tone it down a tad, then appeal, the ban will probably be lifted and we can all stop pretending a great injustice has been served.

Lex_Diamonds

I wasn't even remotely interested in this game until I read IGN's preview. The Wii version sounds utterly intense!

http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1.html

The juicy bits:

Consider for one moment that in Manhunt 2 you can, Wii remote and nunchuk in hands, use a pair of pliers to clamp onto an enemy's testicles and literally tear them from his body in a bloody display; and if that weren't enough, you'll take one of the poor victim's vertebrae along with his manhood. Or, if you'd prefer, you can use a saw blade and cut upward into a foe's groin and buttocks, motioning forward and backward with the Wii remote as you go.

The inmates spot us and one of them leans forward and urinates through the bars. Another inmate throws his feces at us. As Danny walks farther on, a chair skids out of an open cell and when we get to it and look in, we notice that an inmate has just hung himself. We sight a guard with his back to us. "Go ahead. Try it," Leo says. "See how it feels to own a life."

On Wii, you act out the execution with a series of gestures timed to on-screen cues. If you're cutting into a man's skull with a saw, which you sometimes do, you might have to make a forward/backward motion with the Wii remote,

Beelzebub

Lex_Diamonds wrote:

I wasn't even remotely interested in this game until I read IGN's preview. The Wii version sounds utterly intense!

http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1.html

The juicy bits:

I wasn't really interested in the WII until I read this!!!

Lex_Diamonds

Ha, ha yeah. I don't actually own a Wii but will be purchasing one for this game.

ZorbaTehZ

Holy **** ... I hate to say it, but I actually agree now with the ban.

stakey

The ban is utterly rediculous. One has to remember first and foremost that this is a video game and no evidence (prove me incorrect if you wish) has been categorically shown to prove a link between a rise in real life crime/violence and video games. The only scenarios that have come anyway close are the odd case in the US and UK where 'experts' blame a specific game.

If one individual is influenced by a game, it shouldn't mean the blanket banning of a game. It doesn't mean that a large number of players are going to turn into violent zombies. More than likely, if someone is going to act out a violent act, they are already that way inclined and just need a trigger, if that's a video game or movie, it doesn't mean that it needs to be banned. That's a knee jerk reaction avoiding the original problems and just blaming it on something easy.

What i'd like to see is *MUCH* stricter controls on how this content is delivered, ie. certification etc etc... The video industry in Ireland can do it, so the game industry can to. But to think that people are going to go on a killing spree after playing this game is a complete and utter load of bull ****. The censor needs to wake up and realise that he's dealing with a bloody video game here, there are stronger scenes (of non pixelated) violence in the likes of Saw than this game.

*RANT OVER*

hullaballoo

Whilst I'd be against censoring video games at all, beyond age rating - I have to say that the 'juicy bits' posted above are actually sick.

I mean, I've no problem with a bit of gore and violence, and I've very low moral standards when it comes to sick jokes etc. But having to actually enact the motions of demasculating someone or otherwise executing them is wrong. It's sick and wrong.

evad_lhorg

The ban isnt ridiculous it is over the top unnecessary violence which you get rewarded for. not exactly a thing to have in a game but the fact that they can allow crap like hostel go into the cinemas is absolute rubbish if they are going to go and do this

DarkJager

I must say after reading that, it has definitely changed my view of it. I have no problems dismemebering enemies with weapons in normal games because its usually just to clear them out of the way so I can move on. But concentrating an attack in an ultraviolent way like mentioned above, does not sound normal.

Believe me I have no sensitivity to gore or extreme violence, but I have no interest in wasting minutes taking off some guys balls with a pliers....

quad_red

jimi_t wrote:

This draws serious parallels to the banning of everything from "Lolita" to "Rosemary's Baby" in the last century by censors.

That is completely sensationalist. Oh, they're going to ban everything! Lolita, in terms of story and content, actually has a story beyond the 'controversial' aspects of it. ManHunt II is a vehicle for torture and violence.

But that's beside the point.

I see Skynews behind me going on about an image of Jamie Bolger being in the backround in a Law & Order game. Such a reference may not be to everyone's taste but it's hardly banning material.

Rockstar have set down a wholly different marker here.

The Wii has introduced a whole new level of physicality and interactivity to computer games. Players must physically enact the motions, mirror the mutilations that one is being rewarded to inflict onscreen....

Ciaran500

quad_red wrote:

The Wii has introduced a whole new level of physicality and interactivity to computer games. Players must physically enact the motions, mirror the mutilations that one is being rewarded to inflict onscreen....

Which happens every time a new console is released, whether its improved graphics, sound or control. All come together to make a more believable scenario, why is this one suddenly a problem?

The PS2 version was banned aswell btw so the control argument doesn't really apply.

That is completely sensationalist. Oh, they're going to ban everything! Lolita, in terms of story and content, actually has a story beyond the 'controversial' aspects of it. ManHunt II is a vehicle for torture and violence.

How do you know there is no story in there?

quad_red

Ciaran500 wrote:

Which happens every time a new console is released, whether its improved graphics, sound or control. All come together to make a more believable scenario, why is this one suddenly a problem?

As the visuals and modes of control become more realistic, as the boundary between reality and game blurs.

Ciaran500 wrote:

The PS2 version was banned aswell btw so the control argument doesn't really apply.

I believe it does.

Ciaran500 wrote:

How do you know there is no story in there?

In the strict sense of the word, there is a story. But it is merely a vehicle for the extreme content. As I have said in a number of posts, I have not played the game. I am going on the hypothesis that a site like IGN isn't exaggerating or biased against computer games.

F-Stop

quad_red wrote:

That is completely sensationalist. . . blah blah blah. . . ManHunt II is a vehicle for torture and violence.

Now, that's sensationalist. It's a freaking computer game, an adult (18+) computer game, for Buddha's sake.

Ciaran500 wrote:

The PS2 version was banned aswell btw so the control argument doesn't really apply.

Thank you. This is nothing to do with the Wii or with simulated murder. If you check IFCO's contact page they ask people not to phone because resources are stretched!!! Do you think they spent an hour, let alone the time it would actually take, to play through this and discover the 'story'? I doubt it. Now, I'm off to watch Hostel again, because the 'story' in that really puts the torture and violence in context. Ha!

Blowfish

ELSPA back the ban.

You really do have to wonder exactly how bad it is when what is essentially a pro-gaming lobby back the ban.

joenailface

Mark Hamill wrote:

I'm sick of people saying "violent games make people violent" and "he/she only did that because it was in a violent video game" If kids just mindlessly copied wath they saw in video games then, statisically you'd have to have a olad of kids spontaneously building walls a la Tetris, or driving in go karts tossing turtle shells a la Mario Kart.
If little Johnny Sonofabitch starts suddenly stabbing people then either he is a psychopath (and games don't make you crazy(except the ending to Halo2 )) or a dirtbag (and using "video games made me do it" as an excuse)

I have to agree whole heartedly with this, this is down to the person not down to what video games they play or what music they listen to (Manson, Columbine).

To the people who complain about the Wii's control system for the game: I know how to rip a man's testicals off with a pliars, i've never tried but im fairly confident that first time i try im going to do it right the first time even if i dont practice it with the Wiimote.

To the people who say it offers no story i will merely ask you to play Mortal Kombat, a game solely consisting of fights tied together with a slight story line, this game contains the option to brutally murder opponants who have been completely disabled (Fatalities).

To the people being sensationalist about their responses, i will put forward that one of the biggest icons for children today, Harry Potter, a book aimed at children, is by the fbi definition of the term a serial killer. Simply put anyone can make up a sensationalist argument to back up their beliefs.

I played the first manhunt completely and the only reason i finished it was because i dont like leaving games unfinished. I didn't like the game because i found it boring, i would have liked to have played manhunt 2 just to see where they went with the series but i wouldn't have rushed out to buy it.

In all honestly though i'm discusted by this banning, i am an adult and i should be allowed to make up my own mind with regards what i see, hear, play and think about. Oh well if i want it i'll just have to order it from America or Norway (which begs the question, why is this game suitable for Norwegians and Americans but not Irish or British people?)

Nick_oliveri

quad_red wrote:

As the visuals and modes of control become more realistic, as the boundary between reality and game blurs.

Ah come on, are you serious? You are joking right? The wii aint no VR body suit realism console. Jesus Christ. Boundry between reality and game blurs....