The US approach to underage drinking

Shadowless

Under the legal driving limit. Isn't that like 1 pint?

mikemac

I haven't read this entire thread but aren't the daughters of President Bush supposed to be party animals and have been caught drinking underage.
I don't remember any furore over that.

Double standards me thinks

FX Meister

He didn't supply them with drink, lie to people to cover it up and then lie to the police about it afterwards. There was furore over that, how do you know about it?

Jenna Bush was cited for underage drinking in an Austin bar in April of 2001; she later pleaded no contest and was sentenced to community service and alcohol awareness classes. A second incident occurred on 30 May 2001, when both girls were cited by police after attempting to buy drinks at an Austin restaurant

JensenDenmark

Well, here in Denmark we do not have an age limit of alcohol consumption and a 16-year limit of alcohol purchase. So if the boy had been a Dane, he should have celebrated his birthday one day later, and he would not have to involve his parents at all.

Why do we have such limits?

We have discovered that youth use alcohol as a kind of phase that should be done with once they can drive a car. So they have two years where the parents can observe them and their way of drinking. If they show that they cannot control it, it means no drivers license.

This strategy results in a low number of people killed in alcohol related accidents. If you compare your numbers to ours in Denmark, you will find that ours are very low. (15 people killed per 1,000,000 for the whole year of 2006)

We have adjusted our laws on several occasions in order to spare lives and we find that making the introduction to alcohol an assignment for the parents and not the police remove the need for secrecy. Some youth as young as 8 have been spotted in the streets drinking making it very easy for adults to spot them and tell their parents, so it can be a subject for discussion in the family. Most parents introduce alcohol for their child at an age of 13-15 as a part of the confirmation, which is an Old Danish custom.

Terry

JensenDenmark wrote:

Well, here in Denmark we do not have an age limit of alcohol consumption and a 16-year limit of alcohol purchase. So if the boy had been a Dane, he should have celebrated his birthday one day later, and he would not have to involve his parents at all.

Why do we have such limits?

We have discovered that youth use alcohol as a kind of phase that should be done with once they can drive a car. So they have two years where the parents can observe them and their way of drinking. If they show that they cannot control it, it means no drivers license.

This strategy results in a low number of people killed in alcohol related accidents. If you compare your numbers to ours in Denmark, you will find that ours are very low. (15 people killed per 1,000,000 for the whole year of 2006)

We have adjusted our laws on several occasions in order to spare lives and we find that making the introduction to alcohol an assignment for the parents and not the police remove the need for secrecy. Some youth as young as 8 have been spotted in the streets drinking making it very easy for adults to spot them and tell their parents, so it can be a subject for discussion in the family. Most parents introduce alcohol for their child at an age of 13-15 as a part of the confirmation, which is an Old Danish custom.

Yeah. Most Irish people go through that phase from about 13-15.
It lasts until death.

Welcome to boards.ie.

JensenDenmark

Terry wrote:

Yeah. Most Irish people go through that phase from about 13-15.
It lasts until death.

Welcome to boards.ie.

Well, it last some years for most people and we have the numbers to prove it:

Danish numbers 1997-2006: Red = deaths, yellow = injured

Our 16 year limit was introduced around year 2000.

So save the lives of your children caused by DUI by lowered the agelimit!!

togster

I was in copenhagen last week and have to say that its one of the most relaxed places when it comes to alcohol consumption i have ever been. @ jensen i don't think lowering the alcohol limit in ireland would work yet. We have too many socially engrained issues to resolve. The problem is no-one can put there finger on a single root for the problem- The issue is an abstract one, it is defined by previous generations and history. The Danes know how to party but they don't get fcuked up like we do and boast about it to our mates for the next week untill we preceed to do the same thing again that weekend.

po0k

That's a cop-out.

I heard on an interview in the radio recently that ireland cannot be compared to "more progressive countries like Denmark [Norway, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands]" because they are predominately middle-class and don't have the social make-up present in Ireland.
As though that were a fine excuse for not even attempting to take a more long-term, generation-spanning approach to social change.

JansenDenmark wrote:

We have adjusted our laws on several occasions in order to spare lives and we find that making the introduction to alcohol an assignment for the parents and not the police remove the need for secrecy.

Spot-on. I agree whole-heartedly with this approach, rather than foisting responsibility upon the state.
A possible problem is when the 8-year old's parents are both collapsed in sunloungers and the child has no-one to watch over him/her. Why those parent's aren't arrested there and then always boggles me.

Dave!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0910/alcohol.html


Commission to look at alcohol in society
watch listen Monday, 10 September 2007 20:21

The Minister for Justice, Brian Lenihan, has said he is to bring a proposal to Government to reduce the effect of alcohol on society.

Speaking in Dublin, Minister Lenihan said he was currently compiling a proposal on the make up of the commission to review the matter.

However the minister added that in a country were there is full independence at 18 years of age it would be difficult to place restrictions on the consumption of alcohol.
Advertisement

Meanwhile, a new €4m campaign aimed at informing people about the impact excessive drinking can have on others is due to be officially launched tomorrow.

The Had Enough campaign looks at the impact irresponsible drinking behaviour can have on third parties, through the eyes of those it has impacted.

The campaign has been developed as part of the drinkaware.ie initiative by Mature Enjoyment of Alcohol in Society.

Advertisements will run until December on television, radio, the internet as well as in bars, nightclubs and cinemas.

etc

togster

Snickers Man wrote:

Sweden does, and it is the only country with more expensive alcohol than us.

.

Yes that is possibly true. However in Sweden the problems associated with binge drinking e.g fighting violence puking etc are far less pronounced. They also drink one day a week. And alcohol is actually a little cheaper in Sweden than at home (not much). It is a cultural issue. The Swedes work all week with little socialising. On fridays they go yo the off-licence and by alcohol. The majority drink at home with friends and family. Their pub culture is different to ours. They dont do shots or drink to get pissed IMO.

TPD

togster wrote:

They dont do shots or drink to get pissed IMO.

You cant have an opinion about what someone does or doesnt do, they either do it or dont. And unless you've asked every single person, you can't know if they drink to get pissed.

Personally, I drink on a friday night, always over the legal limit but never over my personal limit. I'd sometimes stop for a month or two to lower my personal limit a bit.

togster

TPD wrote:

You cant have an opinion about what someone does or doesnt do, they either do it or dont. .

Eh yeah i can. As stated above that is my opinion. Like it is my opinion that we have a serious drinking problem. I didn't ask every irish person i formed the opinion because of my personal experiences.:rolleyes:

wyk

First, and most importantly, this is a Virginia case, not a US government case. There is no Federal law that requires you withhold alcohol from your children until 21. All there is is a promise from the Federal government to give out grant money for certain things like freeway construction etc. if you make a public law for your state that restricts the sales of Alcohol to persons under the age of 21. EVERY individual state, all 50 of them, has a distinctly different law regarding drinking, ages, when and where, and how. Within those states, every county and city has their own distinct laws regarding alcohol. In fact, all 50 states have very different laws from each other in general, and their counties often differ as well. So generalizing the US is about the same as generalizing the entirety of Europe.

The issue was NOT specifically underage drinking. The issue was the adult was hosting a party for the children of other adults and allowed 15-16 year olds a nearly unrestricted use of alcohol during the event. Many states, cities, and counties allow you to give your own child alcohol within the confines of your own property, under your own watch. But when you have someone else's children over, you must have the parent's consent to purvey alcohol in nearly every state. THIS is what she was tried on - multiple counts of breaking this law of consent.

Even so, she will likely only serve 1/3 of the 2 year sentence(as is typical) and be released on probation as a worst case scenario. Best case, she will have the case knocked down to a misdemeanor (unless she has participated in other felonious activities, a fact we do not know and could have been introduced at trial) and simply get probation. Or, the governor may outright commute her sentence.

In any case, had my 15 year old been to her party, and she told them not to tell me they were given a significant amount of alcohol, I would be upset. I would like to think another adult would consider the care of my child to be important. Her asking the children to lie showed she knew she was doing something wrong. I am sure that came out in court as well. It is also called coercion of a minor in many places, and is illegal - a felony in most states.

Here's the Texas system purely based upon counties:

http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/issues/wet_dry/map_list/index.php
Here's the explanation:
http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/issues/wet_dry/faq/index.php

You'll note in order to pass thru to northern Texas panhandle, you have to pass clearly through entirely dry counties. Some of these counties do not even allow the transportation of certain types of alcohol.

Every single one of those counties you see there - all 254 of them in Texas, have different rules for things from traffic, and parking, to alcohol, as do the cities within, and the States the counties are in. Consider that next time ya feel like generalizing American laws.

You can thank our insanely conservative Protestant forefathers for such a predicament (amongst a slough of others). We're prudes, and hate alcohol, but LOVE violence. Go figure.

Now here's an example of how much differently another state can interpret the Federal law of 'open containers'. Most states consider it to be, well, an open container. But Louisiana considers a cup with a lid a closed container. And, it is also not illegal to drink while driving, just illegal to be over the limit of .08 while driving. Yes, that's serious:

All of that is legal - the gun I have a permit to carry with me at all times(though in most states you do not need a permit to keep one in a vehicle, or while traveling), and Louisiana considers that 32 ounce Banana Daquiri to be in a closed container. I have long since switched to Lucky Strikes, though.

If I were caught with that combination in my truck at the Texas or Arkansas borders, I would have been instantly jailed and charged with serious crimes, not the least of which being I had a banana daquiri.... So I ditched the daquiri on the way back to Texas.

By the way, that daquiri was purchased at a drive thru:

http://www.pbase.com/wyk/image/17543027

Here's the menu:
http://www.pbase.com/wyk/image/17542991

The prices are rather reasonable...

I think that's Lafayette, Louisiana, or maybe Lake Charles.


Y'all take care now,

Wez