Question on Groupset?

Stereophonic

I currently have the latest Shimano Tiagra groupset for my racing bike. It's a triple crank and I was planning to change it to a double crank (chainset). Currently I have a compact 50/39/30 and would like to upgrade it to 53/39.

I was looking at Ultegra 6600 10 Spd Dbl Crankset to replace existing Chainset. Do I need to change anything else to correspond with the new Chainset like cassette, front/rear derailer? Would it be much of a job changing the configuration of the gear levers to suit to double rather than triple?

I plan to keep the Gear/brake levers, brake calipers on the bike for the time being... What is the most common ration for cassettes, was thinking of purchasing 12/27?


Thanks.

Chips Lovell

You shouldn't need any new gear aside from the cranks. You probably have a triple specific front derailleur, but that should work fine with a double. You'll probably need to adjust it a bit, but that's fairly easy. The shifters will work with a double, but I just checked the Shimano site, and saw this. Essentially it says you'll break the shifter if you try shifting into a non-existant third chainring. Shouldn't be too easy to forget and I suspect that you'll feel the resistance there even if you do.

As for the casette, what are you running at the moment? Personally I'd see how I went with it before thinking of changing.

crashoveroid

you may have a few issues from bottom bracket length. front mech and rear mech will be long cage instead of short that will make a difference you should just upgrade the groupset to ultegra or maybe just 105. or really go all out and get campagnolo veloce groupset

Stereophonic

Actually it is a 12/27 already. I though it was something different... sorry about that...

Yeh sounds alright but I hardly ever use the small ring anyway so hopefully I won't break gear..


Could you clarify between 10 Speed and 9 Speed?

Thanks

Stereophonic

crashoveroid wrote:

you may have a few issues from bottom bracket length. front mech and rear mech will be long cage instead of short that will make a difference you should just upgrade the groupset to ultegra or maybe just 105. or really go all out and get campagnolo veloce groupset

Yeh was looking at the Ultegra and Dura Ace for an upgrade. a bike mechanic told me that it won't make much difference changing groupset. I though it would make a significant difference. He told me just get good wheels and you off?

I'd rather save some money and get good wheels rahter than complete groupset. How much do you reckon a bike shop would charge me to have a groupset purchased at their shop fitted by them? would it take a day for them?

Thanks

E@gle.

why would you want to switch from triple to double?

Chips Lovell

crashoveroid wrote:

you may have a few issues from bottom bracket length. front mech and rear mech will be long cage instead of short that will make a difference you should just upgrade the groupset to ultegra or maybe just 105. or really go all out and get campagnolo veloce groupset

The latest Tiagra has an external BB, which is meant to work with doubles and triples. Going by that, I'd say it should do fine with Ultegra cranks, but might be worth checking with the shop.

I've always heard a long cage RD will work fine with a double.

Come to think of it, one thing I would check is if the chain is to short after moving from a 50 to 53 big ring.

Stereophonic wrote:

a bike mechanic told me that it won't make much difference changing groupset. I though it would make a significant difference.

What you'd get is 10-speed as opposed to 9, slightly lighter (although you probably wouldn't notice the difference), and a group that would be a bit more flash looking.

Stereophonic

I don't use the triple (small chain) at all cycling it's a waste of space too. Hopefully it will make my bike a milligram lighter

I like the website www.teamcyclist.com and offers alot of bike components.

crashoveroid

Stereophonic wrote:

Yeh was looking at the Ultegra and Dura Ace for an upgrade. a bike mechanic told me that it won't make much difference changing groupset. I though it would make a significant difference. He told me just get good wheels and you off?

I'd rather save some money and get good wheels rahter than complete groupset. How much do you reckon a bike shop would charge me to have a groupset purchased at their shop fitted by them? would it take a day for them?

Thanks

I do most of my own work and i can build a bike up in about 2 hours non stop so does not take too long as well you will be able to pick a new groupset up for 430 for 105 and 490 for Ultegra. I dont really like shimano myself to many cable flapping about a good gruopset out at the moment is Campagnolo Veloce long lasting a way better then anything shimano has to offer and yes wheels are a good investment i train on open pro hand built with record hubs and race with Bora or Nutrons.

Stereophonic

This is an Ultegra Groupset

* Ultegra Double Hollowtech II Crankset 172.5mm
* Ultegra CS-6600 10 Spd Cassette 12-23
* Ultegra CS-6600 10 Spd Chain
* Ultegra Brake Calipers
* Ultegra Dual Control Levers
* Ultegra Rear Mech Short Cage
* Ultegra Front Mech
* BB Cups BC 1.37x24

* Gear and Brake Cables

What about hubs, would I need hubs?
I can get that for €499.99. Would that be a good groupset to change to?

What crank length is suitable for me? I'm just 6 foot

Thanks lads

Chips Lovell

Stereophonic wrote:

What about hubs, would I need hubs?

You don't

Stereophonic wrote:

Would that be a good groupset to change to?

It's a very good groupset. I've got it and have no complaints, but more significantly plenty of serious racers use it. As crashoveroid said Campagnolo make great gear too, but if you want to stick with Shimano and you've got the budget, it's a good choice. Are you thinking of upgrading the whole lot and not just the cranks now?

Stereophonic wrote:

What crank length is suitable for me? I'm just 6 foot

I've seen this formula cited a lot, but from what I hear its often down to personal preference. For what it's worth, I'm 6ft2 and ride on 172.5mm cranks and they feel fine.

crashoveroid

Stereophonic wrote:

This is an Ultegra Groupset

* Ultegra Double Hollowtech II Crankset 172.5mm
* Ultegra CS-6600 10 Spd Cassette 12-23
* Ultegra CS-6600 10 Spd Chain
* Ultegra Brake Calipers
* Ultegra Dual Control Levers
* Ultegra Rear Mech Short Cage
* Ultegra Front Mech
* BB Cups BC 1.37x24

* Gear and Brake Cables

What about hubs, would I need hubs?
I can get that for €499.99. Would that be a good groupset to change to?

What crank length is suitable for me? I'm just 6 foot

Thanks lads

You dont need the hubs at all unless your planning to build wheels if your 6ft tall you should be on 175mm cranks you will find it better to 172.5

Hungrycol

The Ultegra gruppo is an excelent choice if your budget will stretch. Can you mix and match in the groupset? E.g. I'd personally want a bigger ratio in the casette if I was on a big 53-39 double cainset. 12-27 would be perfect for all round cycling.

If you're comfortable with your current chainset crank arm then measure it and buy the same length. If you're just going to buy the chainset, going from 50 to 53 on the big ring, you will need to adjust the height of FD on the frame/braze on.

(good link on crank length el tonto)

bogmanfan

I was in Cycleways yesterday and they had discounts on some Ultegra, Dura-Ace and 105 parts. I think a full Ultegra groupset was €450, 105 was €350. Might be worth a look.

Hungrycol

Sterio where can you get an Ultegra Gruppo for €499? Seems like a good deal to me...

aside - must read faster, bogmanfan do you know if Shimano are due to release a new Ultegra set hence the sale?

Chips Lovell

Hungrycol wrote:

do you know if Shimano are due to release a new Ultegra set hence the sale?

They already have. It's not a replacement, but is meant to sit between Ultegra and Dura Acce

Quigs Snr

Cyclesuperstore have them for 499. I use the old DuraAce 9's, but the new Ultegra is great. The team ireland bikes that were stolen in the ras were Ultegra equipped, so if its good enough for those boys it will be good enough for you !

By the way, I do think a groupset makes a difference, especially in race circumstances. Sora and Tiagra, much of a muchness, fine for the more casual cyclist, but 105 upward I think is better for racing. The higher end stuff shifts that much smoother and that makes a difference in the last few miles when someone attacks you on a hill and you have to shift rapidly with the pedals under full load to go after them....

I also wouldn't worry about getting the latest and greatest. I bought DA9, 10 speed was available, but the 9 was cheaper and good enough for me (I prefer the levers too). I figure lance won his first few tours on DA9, I am pretty sure I wouldn't have beaten him if I was on DA10 ! Go for the Ultegra, you won't regret it.

Stereophonic

One question I have......

Groupset: Tiagra 9 SPD 2007

I have a 9 SPD cassette (27-12) I think and a 9 SPD compact 50/39 chainset both Tiagra . I was thinking just buying the Ultegra groupset or just changing the Chainset and cassette.

Option 1:

1. Change from Triple Crank Tiagra 9 SPD to Double Crank Ultegra 10 SPD
   
2. Change the cassette from 9 SPD to 10 SPD
   
3. New Ultegra Chain to accommodate these new items

Is it ok to change from 9 SPD Cassette to 10 SPD on Shimano WHR500 wheels as I plan to get the 10 SPD Fulcrums 1 silver at end of summer? Fulcrums 1's only work with 10 speed.

Can this option be done?
Cost approx €200 for all parts.

Option 2:

1. Purchase Brand new Ultegra Groupset for €491

I'd rather get the option cheap as possible but would there be less problems buying the whole set?

Finally, when buying a Chainset, does the arm on the other side come with it? I hope it does

Much appreciated,
Thank you

Chips Lovell

Stereophonic wrote:

Is it ok to change from 9 SPD Cassette to 10 SPD on Shimano WHR500 wheels as I plan to get the 10 SPD Fulcrums 1 silver at end of summer? Fulcrums 1's only work with 10 speed

Those wheels will take a 10-speed cassette, but you won't get nine speeds because you still have 9-speed shifters. In addition, the spacing on 9 and 10 speed casettes is a little different, which means there's a different amount of cable pull in 9 and 10 speed shifters and might mean your gear shifting will be off.

Stereophonic wrote:

Finally, when buying a Chainset, does the arm on the other side come with it? I hope it does

Yes it does.

Stereophonic

Would an upgrade be worth it in yours eyes 'El Tonto'. All the money I have at the moment I use on my bike.

Two things I want to buy for my bike before considering a car or motorbike

• Groupset
• Wheels

After that, I think I'm sorted for a good while..... hopefully

Chips Lovell

Well, with Ultegra and the Fulcrums, you'll be dropping about a grand on your bike. Whether it's worth it or not really depends on how much cash you have to spare.

If you're looking for a cheaper option, have you considered getting wheels that will take a 9-speed cassettes? These Mavic Ksyriums weigh and cost a bit less than the Fulcrums for example.

Stereophonic

That's a good idea. Another option I considered at the start was to replace the biggest ring of 50 to a 53.

I'd say I may need a new chain but would the front derailer be ok for this (.ie hop from 50 to 53 teeth)?

This option would give me more money to buy wheels which I prefer to get.

Cyclesuperstore have them wheels for about €650

Thanks once again

Chips Lovell

Stereophonic wrote:

That's a good idea. Another option I considered at the start was to replace the biggest ring of 50 to a 53.

Might be the cheapest alternative. One thing to look out for is the bolt circle diameter (BCD). You're in luck though. Your Tiagra crankset has 130mm and most 53t chainrings come in that size.

Stereophonic wrote:

I'd say I may need a new chain but would the front derailer be ok for this (.ie hop from 50 to 53 teeth)?

According to the Shimano site, it's specced to run up to 52 teeth, which is the big ring size for most triples I've seen. I don't know if 53 will cause a problem or not.

Incidentally, what kind of frame do you have? A lot of people would say you can reach a point where you're better off saving for a new bike than spending big amounts on upgrades.

Stereophonic

No that ain't an option, I only bought the Bike in January and it's a Carbon Fiber Frame with Easton Carbon fork and I have a good deal of time left on it.

Cheers El Tonto,

Stereophonic

Bringing up this thread again.

When choosing the correct cassette for the Groupset. I think i'm going to go for a new Ultegra '07 Double. Would it be worth waiting for the '08 one due out soon? 10SPD

I currently run on a 13-25 cassette, would going down to a 11-23 make much of a difference? I heard it would increase your pace on the flats but would you need to be really fit to tackle hills like Howth with the 11-23 which I do regularly (From Sutton along the Carrickbrack Road to Summit)? The chainset wil be 53-39

Hungrycol

I don't recommend an 11-23 unless you're doing time-trialling. Sure enough if you're on the flat all the time then this ratio might be OK but come to a hill and you'll be looking for something bigger than 23 to get you out of jail, esp if you don't have a compact or triple chainset. Stick with the 13-25 I'd say.

If you like grinding then you might get away the 11-23. If you like spinning then leave it as it.

Stereophonic

didn't want to start a new thread for this question

I Plan to buy the new Ultegrea 08 groupset at €510. My local bike shop will not have a price match near that but I would like them to install the groupset.

Would you buy a groupset at a different shop for alot cheaper and ask your local shop to install it? Like "there you go, thats the bike, that the groupset". I wouldn't like to disrespect the local bike shop but I wanna save abit of cash too

peterk19

id imagine most bike shops would maybe with the exception of cyclogical they only service what they sell, i know i was in Sean Duffs in Donaghmede (Great Service by the way) and they would be happy enough to assemble a bike for me from components i sourced myself

Hungrycol

Are you talking about the new Ice Grey Ultegra gruppo? I heard that Shimano can't make these fast enough and are having trouble supplying the bike manufacturers never mind the component market. I also heard thay it's likely Christmas before they'll be freely available as a groupset. This is just what I'm hearing through the grapevine so it could be Chinese whispers but check with cyclesuperstore (assumption as the €510 sounds like their price) as to when they will actually get the grouppo in, says what 5 to 7 days, is this realistic? Can you customise it (i.e.crank lenght, cassette ratio?)

blorg

Stereophonic wrote:

Would you buy a groupset at a different shop for alot cheaper and ask your local shop to install it? Like "there you go, thats the bike, that the groupset". I wouldn't like to disrespect the local bike shop but I wanna save abit of cash too

Depends on the shop I suspect but there would be a fair amount of work in changing a groupset; I imagine you would get this labour discounted in a lot of cases if buying it from them.

Stereophonic

yeh the New Ice Grey Groupset. I'd imagine it would take at least 2-3 weeks to get it. Hopefully it can be customised but i'm getting the impression you can't.