The Manhunt 2 Thread.

chrislad

I disagree with censorship, regardless of the content. This game, like it's prequel, would have been 18s. It's the responsibility of both the shops and the parents to make sure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands. Simple as.

I didn't really see the point of the first one. It was just violence for the sake of it, and while I've no issues with violent games, I don't particularly care for needless violence, or grotesque violence.

Infini

All imma say is this....

1) The banning of this game even though it could be crap could be used as a precedent against other games which may be nowhere near as bad but could use the same excuses as this to ban it.

2) People dont need censors to tell them what they can and cant watch/play theyre adults and can make up theyre own minds on these things. Rating them is fine to help ppl make up their minds on wether to give em to children or that but i really oppose outright bans.

3) A little thing called the internet pretty much nuters any ban these days all u needa do is buy/ .torrent the game and ppl will get it anyway.:D

Dont be at yourself

Merged into one thread, please don't create any more.

Incidentally, I disagree with most of you, and reckon the IFCO were probably on the money to ban Manhunt 2. They're an incredibly liberal censorship office, and have let every single other violent game onto our shelves, so if Manhunt 2 is banned, you can presume there was sufficient reason.

I also disagree that it should be the responsibility of the parent, because they've proven time and again that they are, in general, irresponsible when it comes to their children's consumption of violent videogames.

My full thoughts, here: http://www.rotsyourbrain.com/2007/06/21/videogame-violence/

BlitzKrieg

the only reason i havnt commented on this is that I have no idea what the game plays like.

It doesnt seem to be a rehash of the original's system, so I am guessing some element to the core gameplay goes too far.

Looking around the net, the closest I can put together is that you actually stalk then brutally murder innocent victims. Which if it is true, makes some sense why the censors are against it. Doesnt mean I support them, but I am not with them ether, I'd like to know more before hand.


some old in game footage

http://kotaku.com/gaming/impressions/manhunt-2-ps2-impressions-261293.php?autoplay=true

I am beginning to question the boards call mainly because it looks like the same tired gameplay as the original. If its not in the gameplay then its in the narrative?

Nick_oliveri

BlitzKrieg wrote:

It doesnt seem to be a rehash of the original's system, so I am guessing some element to the core gameplay goes too far.

The original game really failed to woo me in any way. Completly boring.

Looking around the net, the closest I can put together is that you actually stalk then brutally murder innocent victims.

Sure i can do that in all the gta games. In fact i can beat up an innocent old lady while wearing a gimp suit in San Andreas.

The cutscenes are the only thing manhunt has going for it. As bad as they seem they can be worse that the scenes that ive seen in films like "Irreversable", "Audition", The "Saw" trilogy, "Itchi" or "Brain Dead".

Funny as "Brain Dead" may be, its still a gore fest.

ObeyGiant

Zeouterlimits wrote:

Personally, I think the idea of completely banning any game from a country is an outrage, and a blatant infringement of civil liberty.

When historians from the future look back on the Manhunt 2 case, they'll say that this was the moment that the hysteria reached its peak.

Ciaran500

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Looking around the net, the closest I can put together is that you actually stalk then brutally murder innocent victims. Which if it is true, makes some sense why the censors are against it. Doesnt mean I support them, but I am not with them ether, I'd like to know more before hand.

Anything I can find seems to be the opposite. From what I can put together you are sent to an asylum after you have been experimented on and when you try escape from the asylum the people who did experiments on you hunt you down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_2

Also from any gameplay shots the people don't look innocent, they are carrying weapons, dressed up in body armour or in asylum uniforms.

I don't see where people are getting the innocent idea from.

cooperguy

People really have warped views of IFCO here. They are an extremely liberal organisation and John Kelleher has said himself he does not like banning things. Therefore if this is banned then there is more than likely a very good reason behind it.

I am not in favour of bans myself but given the stance of the current censor on bannings I would be inclined to support his decision.

Jip

bluemachavel wrote:

IFCO are a complete joke.

Not at all. If you look back through the history of the various film censors you'll find the current one is very liberal. He has admitted in the past that he hates having to censor anything and as far as I know (I could be wrong) this is the first thing he has banned outright. If he was such a joke etc as people say he is I can't see how he would have allowed Nine Songs to be released.

BlitzKrieg

Ciaran500 wrote:

Anything I can find seems to be the opposite. From what I can put together you are sent to an asylum after you have been experimented on and when you try escape from the asylum the people who did experiments on you hunt you down.

Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game...the fact of the game’s unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game.

http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/wii/game/news/article.jsp?releaseId=2007061911474843030&articleId=2007061911474843030&sectionId=1006


I had come to the above conclusion before I found ingame footage, which showed the people you were stalking and *brutally* slaying were like you said all armed with guns etc.

So yes I retract my original statement of *innocent victims* but from reading how the BBFC justified their ban, it was the only way it made sense to me.

Looking at the game footage, the game looks to be the same mechanical, artificial game style as of manhunt 1 so I dont understand how it can be in the gameplay that they have opposed the game on.

So I am hoping that someone somewhere will shed light on what elements of the story it is that they have opposed.

On a side note. Didnt the Punisher game have you horrible torturing people too? that didnt get banned?

Crucifix

BlitzKrieg wrote:

On a side note. Didnt the Punisher game have you horrible torturing people too? that didnt get banned?

I never played it, but I remember it being compared to Manhunt a lot. Another example is the Reservoir dogs game, which I recall was banned in Australia, but not Ireland or the UK.

Gizzle

BlitzKrieg wrote:

http://www.gamesradar.com/gb/wii/game/news/article.jsp?releaseId=2007061911474843030&articleId=2007061911474843030&sectionId=1006


I had come to the above conclusion before I found ingame footage, which showed the people you were stalking and *brutally* slaying were like you said all armed with guns etc.

So yes I retract my original statement of *innocent victims* but from reading how the BBFC justified their ban, it was the only way it made sense to me.

Looking at the game footage, the game looks to be the same mechanical, artificial game style as of manhunt 1 so I dont understand how it can be in the gameplay that they have opposed the game on.

So I am hoping that someone somewhere will shed light on what elements of the story it is that they have opposed.

On a side note. Didnt the Punisher game have you horrible torturing people too? that didnt get banned?

The Punisher game's execution scenes (pretty similar to those found in Manhunt) were heavily edited on the console versions (black and white, washed out graphics, panning away from the violent scenes etc), but was completely uncut or edited on the PC version....Still had the same 18+ PEGI rating, not a BBFC sticker if I recall. Also, I seem to remember the choice made to edit the consoles cut scenes to avoid the furore surrounding Manhunt...but that was also released on the PC. No kids play the PC apparently.

Beelzebub

So it seems there is no point in pre-ordering this from online sources now:
I don't know how legal/illegal this

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unacceptably-gratuitous-and-gross-violence-in-banned-game-705942.html

Jip

Just about to post that. I wonder where customs got the order from or if they're taking it up on their own initiative.

Beelzebub

Jip wrote:

Just about to post that. I wonder where customs got the order from or if they're taking it up on their own initiative.

Apparently they have authorisation based on the ban by the censor.

Beelzebub

Amazon.com still lists it for the 3 platforms with a date of Sept 1, 2007.

I've a feeling that this game may be cancelled altogether.

hullaballoo

A thought just occurred to me: the 'story' behind this game is a lot like 'Old Boy'. If you've seen that, it seems like the same senseless and unrealistic bullcrap. That film was seriously messed up.

I remember my mate suggesting to his house full of new housemates that they all sit down and watch it as a sort of 'get to know each other' thing. Needless to say he was counting his blessings that they didn't!

Nick_oliveri

Yeah thats a ker-azy film. Must watch it again.

Customs seizing the game is a bit shíte tbh. Makes me want to download it, even though i didnt like the first one.

This will set a precedent. Were all old enough to see a full grown man eat a nasty ass squid or go mad on a guys head with a fire extinguisher, we watch the news showing and telling us in the daytime about fecking pedo's and dead soldiers and starving Iraqi kids but we cant play a fecking game with unrealistic 3D mayhem that would obviously have the adult age limit applied to it if it was to be sold here?

****ing Chuck Norris.

colin190

Not looking like Manhunt 2 will see the light of day at all now. It's been rated AO (Adults only) in the US and both Sony and Nintendo have stated their policy is not to release games rated AO. Probably back to the drawing board for Rockstar, no doubt bouyed by the extensive pre-release publicity it could only have dreamed of receiving.

Dont be at yourself

A thought just occurred to me: the 'story' behind this game is a lot like 'Old Boy'. If you've seen that, it seems like the same senseless and unrealistic bullcrap. That film was seriously messed up.

Old Boy was not about the glorification of senseless, graphic violence, as Manhunt 2 seems to be. It came with a strong message, was critically acclaimed and won the Palme D'Or at Cannes. I can't see Manhunt 2 being received in the same light.

Gizzle

Now hold on a minute, customs seizing copies?? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's illegal to sell a copy or for a shop to stock a copy but it's NOT illegal to own a copy, so how can they justify destroying copies?? :mad:

Beelzebub

Gizzle wrote:

Now hold on a minute, customs seizing copies?? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's illegal to sell a copy or for a shop to stock a copy but it's NOT illegal to own a copy, so how can they justify destroying copies?? :mad:

If it's banned then wouldn't owning it be illegal too?.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unacceptably-gratuitous-and-gross-violence-in-banned-game-705942.html

o1s1n

Gizzle wrote:

Now hold on a minute, customs seizing copies?? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's illegal to sell a copy or for a shop to stock a copy but it's NOT illegal to own a copy, so how can they justify destroying copies?? :mad:

It's not illegal to own a copy in the UK. I don't know what the story is over here though.

They'll be diligent about it when (and if) the game is released. I can't see then keeping such a screening up for very long though.

lego

This kind of 'censorship' is a token gesture akin to the scene with Father Ted outside the cinema on craggy island with his "down with this sort of thing" placard.


We'll be able to buy the english-language PAL version from internet stores in Europe. Without a doubt they'll be stocking it to capitalise on the ban. Lots of people in the netherlands speak english anyway, that would probably be the best bet.

Play.com is based in jersey, I'm not sure if they'll be affected by the censorship ruling and if they have it, they will have the PAL version.

If people are being smuggled into this country with relative ease what chance have customs of stopping every single copy of this game from getting into this country and forever corrupting our oh-so-very immature, impressionable and innocent celtic minds?

With a chipped PS2 or a custom firmware PSP you'll be able to download it off the internet via file
sharing anyway. Good luck to customs in their efforts at trying to stop that.

The ban does not have much of an effect on "average joe gamer". It will simply increase import sales and piracy. If people want this game, they can get it one way or another.

monument

Beelzebub wrote:

If it's banned then wouldn't owning it be illegal too?.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unacceptably-gratuitous-and-gross-violence-in-banned-game-705942.html

The Film Censor's power under the Video Recordings Act, 1989 allows them to "prohibit" supply.

It looks to be very much so unclear if this extends person usage. I will be looking into it.

Zapp Brannigan

Kinda glad to be honest.

Cos if it came out and GAME were stocking it I'd (or another staff member) would have to deal with phone-calls from different groups asking us to stop stocking it, happened with Bully and it was just a load of hassle.

steviec

lego wrote:

This kind of 'censorship' is a token gesture akin to the scene with Father Ted outside the cinema on craggy island with his "down with this sort of thing" placard.


We'll be able to buy the english-language PAL version from internet stores in Europe. Without a doubt they'll be stocking it to capitalise on the ban. Lots of people in the netherlands speak english anyway, that would probably be the best bet.

Play.com is based in jersey, I'm not sure if they'll be affected by the censorship ruling and if they have it, they will have the PAL version.

If people are being smuggled into this country with relative ease what chance have customs of stopping every single copy of this game from getting into this country and forever corrupting our oh-so-very immature, impressionable and innocent celtic minds?

With a chipped PS2 or a custom firmware PSP you'll be able to download it off the internet via file
sharing anyway. Good luck to customs in their efforts at trying to stop that.

The ban does not have much of an effect on "average joe gamer". It will simply increase import sales and piracy. If people want this game, they can get it one way or another.

First of all the "average gamer" doesn't have a chipped PS2.

But aside from that, the game is now officially unavailable in Ireland, Britain and Italy. It is also effectively banned in the US, as it was given a rating that neither Nintendo or Sony will allow on their consoles, so they don't have permission to actually produce the game. Australia is all but confirmed to be banning it and other equivalents in other countries may well follow suit too.

So that's pretty much the entire English speaking world out of the picture as well as other countries - no amount of cult following amongst importers on the internet will make up even a tiny percentage of what they've lost out on there. This is way beyond free advertising.

To be honest though I'm glad because the industry doesn't need games like this giving it a bad name, and as far as I can tell from what the various censorship boards have said it really deserves all of this.

MooseJam

OK I think we need to storm the IFCO office, cause some serious ruckus, show them whats what, who's up for it,

flogen

I've given my opinion on this in the other threads on the site (in Nintendo, AH and Politics) - so I'm just going to add something here that I didn't see while scanning the 6 pages.

For everyone who's attacking IFCO for being the shadow of the British equivalent, you should be aware that IFCO made their decision prior to the British. It would take some skill for IFCO to follow the lead of the BBFC before even the BBFC themselves.

Lorax

Im gonna download it off torrents for the psp, complete it, then go out on a murdering spree and copy all the killing techniques. If they are anything like the 1st game, I will have lots of fun