Gaeilge

Naikon

The fact that practically no Irish person uses the language......

tolosenc

33% use or can use the language.

Insect Overlord

Naikon wrote:

The fact that practically no Irish person uses the language......

Practically nobody worldwide uses Latin, would you therefore use the same logic to suggest Latin is not a language?

Naikon

Does that % represent people fluent in Irish?
Out of curiosity, where did you get this statistic?

ZorbaTehZ

Naikon wrote:

The fact that practically no Irish person uses the language......

Uhm, lol?

Naikon

An Fhile wrote:

Practically nobody worldwide uses Latin, would you therefore use the same logic to suggest Latin is not a language?

Well, I would class both languages as "dead" or "extinct" if they don't represent a large number of speakers.
Stupid Logic you might say, but I guess it is true to an extent.
I am not saying they are not Languages, I am simply telling you that they are virtually dead languages.
Irish is a de facto dead language, outside gaelteacht areas I would challenge anybody to find a large number of fluent Irish speakers.

adam_ccfc

Naikon wrote:

Does that % represent people fluent in Irish?
Out of curiosity, where did you get this statistic?

It does in my ear! 90-odd % of Irish people cannot string more than 3 or 4 words together. It is a complete farce anyway, I wouldn't even call it a language. Pile of ****e. And I'm never going to have to speak or learn it again. Hell yeah!:)

JC 2K3

Naikon wrote:

outside gaelteacht areas I would challenge anybody to find a large number of fluent Irish speakers.

That's stupid. It's like saying, "outside French speaking areas, I would challenge anybody to find a large number of French speakers".

In any case, I reckon you'd find a good amount of Irish speakers in Dublin or any of the major cities.

tolosenc

That statistic, I got it from the most recent census.

obl wrote:

What exactly makes Irish not a language?

Naikon wrote:

The fact that practically no Irish person uses the language......

An Fhile wrote:

Practically nobody worldwide uses Latin, would you therefore use the same logic to suggest Latin is not a language?

Naikon wrote:

I am not saying they are not Languages

colm-ccfc84

Aard wrote:

Well this forum is quite slow these here days so I don't think anybody will mind.


Why wouldn't you regard Irish as a language? Do you believe it should be regared as a dialect of "Greater Gaelic" (or Goidelic even)? Or maybe you think that there is sufficient diversity in the language spoken here that it warrants being broken up into smaller different languages? Although I daresay we're back to the "a language is a dialect with an army" chestnut, wouldn't you agree? Any light you have to shed on this would be absolutely brilliant.

I wouldn't regard it as a language as it is not evolving or dynamic. A living language is a changing one. It is devoid of proper terminology, it is merely pieced together phrases in lieu of any defining words. Furthermore, it contains vast amounts of blatant plagerised words (with very minor adjustments).

colm-ccfc84

adam_ccfc wrote:

It does in my ear! 90-odd % of Irish people cannot string more than 3 or 4 words together. It is a complete farce anyway, I wouldn't even call it a language. Pile of ****e. And I'm never going to have to speak or learn it again. Hell yeah!:)

Well said Adam, my sentiments exactly. With the course to say I ever learned it would be a touch hyperbolic though!

JC 2K3

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

I wouldn't regard it as a language as it is not evolving or dynamic. A living language is a changing one. It is devoid of proper terminology, it is merely pieced together phrases in lieu of any defining words. Furthermore, it contains vast amounts of blatant plagerised words (with very minor adjustments).

Bullshít. Seriously, do some research before you start spouting your inaccurate presumptions.

colm-ccfc84

obl wrote:

French, Latin and Greek account for ~81% of English's vocab.

They all have similar origins.

tolosenc

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

...vast amounts of blatant plagerised words (with very minor adjustments).

French, Latin and Greek account for ~81% of English's vocab.

And adam_ccfc, I like your in depth statistics that you make up on the spot to support your arguments. 26% of all stats are made that way!

colm-ccfc84

JC 2K3 wrote:

Bullshít. Seriously, do some research before you start spouting your inaccurate presumptions.

I will be back shortly with a profound thesis. Anything else?:rolleyes:

JC 2K3

I look forward to reading this thesis.

adam_ccfc

obl wrote:

French, Latin and Greek account for ~81% of English's vocab.

And adam_ccfc, I like your in depth statistics that you make up on the spot to support your arguments. 26% of all stats are made that way!

Well I just said 90-odd, that's pretty general! Either way, you certainly couldn't hold any sort of conversation with the vast, vast majority of Irish people in Irish.

colm-ccfc84

JC 2K3 wrote:

I look forward to reading this thesis.

Leave me just finish my cup of coffee and I will plug in the scanner.

Naikon

obl wrote:

That statistic, I got it from the most recent census.

Let me re-phrase.
Irish is a Language I am aware of this.
Its just that it isn't a widely spoken language which is used in daily life.
Klingon is more useful to learn than Irish.

JC 2K3

adam_ccfc wrote:

Well I just said 90-odd, that's pretty general! Either way, you certainly couldn't hold any sort of conversation with the vast, vast majority of Irish people in Irish.

That doesn't make it "not a proper language" though. That doesn't mean it's not evolving or changing. That doesn't mean all of its modern terminology is pagiarised from English(in many cases where a word is very similar to its English counterpart, there is a more correct synonym in existance).

Irish is an alive language spoken by a small, but significant amount of people and the basics are learned by all Irish people.

Naikon

adam_ccfc wrote:

Well I just said 90-odd, that's pretty general! Either way, you certainly couldn't hold any sort of conversation with the vast, vast majority of Irish people in Irish.

This has been my experience with most Irish people who claim to "speak" Irish.
Screw statistics, they don't take into account other factors such as the level of a persons proficiency in Irish.

JC 2K3

Naikon wrote:

Let me re-phrase.
Irish is a Language I am aware of this.
Its just that it isn't a widely spoken language which is used in daily life.
Klingon is more useful to learn than Irish.

List some jobs, grants or advantages one can gain in life by knowing how to speak Klingon.

tolosenc

JC 2K3 wrote:

List some jobs, grants or advantages one can gain in life by knowing how to speak Klingon.

I hear there's an opening coming up for the position of English-Klingon interpreter on the USS Enterprise. May be wrong though...

Naikon

JC 2K3 wrote:

and the basics are learned by all Irish people.

And quickly forgotten:p

Naikon

JC 2K3 wrote:

List some jobs, grants or advantages one can gain in life by knowing how to speak Klingon.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86550,00.html

I reckon it would be more challenging to learn than Irish which would present a personal satisfaction for an individual.
Very few jobs, if any benefit from a knowledge of Irish.
This coming from a Star-Trek hater.

JC 2K3

Naikon wrote:

Very few jobs, if any benefit from a knowledge of Irish.

Primary teaching, teaching Irish at second level, translating all EU documents to Irish, being an Irish interpreter in the EU, any job in TG4, any job in the Gaeltacht etc.

There are quite a few third level grants available to those who speak Irish around their university

And you get certain perks like bonus points in your Leaving Cert, shorter queue for your driving test etc.

Naikon

Well, point taken I guess in the case of Ireland, but those jobs require Irish as a fundamental requirement, whereas Irish wouldn't benefit someone working in Accountancy for example.
I think the Irish requirement for the Gardai was removed two years ago just to add, some civil servant positions don't require the Irish language either but I am open to correction on that one.
I am not trying to just bash Irish here, it will still have its uses, but for most people it will remain a bit of a mystery, especially with the way its being taught in Second level schools.

Rozabeez

I'd like to keep up the Irish but I know I'll probably lose it, unless of course I end up in the Irish pub every couple of weeks as I promised a guy in my Irish class But that's so not going to happen.

Insect Overlord

Am I the only one who saw the news story last week about a new Gaelteacht area being established in Canada? Over 50 third level institutions in the Canadian state provide courses in the Irish language, and a group of students and professors purchased land on which they plan to develop an Irish-speaking community. I'll try to find a link to the story later.

Also, I remember hearing many moons ago that there are more fluent Irish speakers living in Argentina than on the Emerald Isle...

tolosenc

Yep, I remember that about the Canadian Gaeltacht.

The Argentina thing may be Welsh though.