Gaeilge

Aard

colm-ccfc84 wrote:

Aard wrote:

Well this forum is quite slow these here days so I don't think anybody will mind.


Why wouldn't you regard Irish as a language? Do you believe it should be regared as a dialect of "Greater Gaelic" (or Goidelic even)? Or maybe you think that there is sufficient diversity in the language spoken here that it warrants being broken up into smaller different languages? Although I daresay we're back to the "a language is a dialect with an army" chestnut, wouldn't you agree? Any light you have to shed on this would be absolutely brilliant.

I wouldn't regard it as a language as it is not evolving or dynamic. A living language is a changing one. It is devoid of proper terminology, it is merely pieced together phrases in lieu of any defining words. Furthermore, it contains vast amounts of blatant plagerised words (with very minor adjustments).

Neither evolving or dynamic? Do you have evidence of such? Beyond that "It is devoid of proper terminology"? I'm assuming you mean things like legal, medical, judicial, technological et al terminology. Well, by this criteria there are hundreds, no, thousands of so-called 'languages' out there being called such, to the detriment of the real stronghold of evolution and dynamicism, ie IE* languages. So again, any evidence? I'd love to see it, really I would.

Tell me this. A child is born into an Irish speaking family. Yes, believe it or not, this happens. To make it more real, lets assume that they live in the back of beyond in rural Kerry. And they have a farm. Now. This child, miraculously, it seems, does not speak English! Oh ho, it's true. But also this child seems to be speaking in a dead tongue! Their parents call it "Gaeilge". However, due to your pristine logic, this is not a language.

My question is: what, if not a language, is this child speaking? A 'dead' language? Surely not, as, by definition, a dead language is no longer spoken.

Feel free to keep digging there. And by not replying I'll assume you admit that you're wrong and prejudiced, and wanted to slither out of the iron clad arguments unscathed.



[*]Indo-European. See what I did there? Eh?

Rozabeez

colm-ccfc84: First impression of you there? Disgruntled English speaker, can't grasp the Irish language, decides its not worth your time/effort. tbh.

Edit: Got it into my head after reading this that I should do Nua Gaeilge as part of my Arts degree, I'm sad now because it clashes with my other choice.

Grudaire

Naikon wrote:

Well, point taken I guess in the case of Ireland, but those jobs require Irish as a fundamental requirement, whereas Irish wouldn't benefit someone working in Accountancy for example.
I think the Irish requirement for the Gardai was removed two years ago just to add

Well It could be useful, even if not directly involved in the job- Irish can be used as a USP(Unique selling point-I learned something in Business!) in Irish regions. For example There was always an Irish solicitor advertised in Lá

Secondly the requirement was replaced with training in Irish as part of learning to be a Garda- you must of course have Irish for the Gaeltacht regions.

The Volt

I just got back from the Gaeltacht, in love with the language and hoping to make the jump from pass to honours for 6th yr now.

gaeilgegrinds

Ok Colm, your opinions are exactly that but to say the language is not evolving is entirely incorrect. There is a designated website that adds new words everyday, therefore the language is change and evolving.
I won't get involved in this debate further other than to say I do not know of anyone who has Irish to a satisfactory level that refuses to use it at every opportunity. I love my language and am so proud to be fluent. Adding a few words like, 'Conas atá?' or, 'slan,' is all that is needed to begin with for those of you who are nervous. Irish is very much prevelant in my life (outside the Gaeltacht) and has opened many doors for me. For that I am very much indebted.

fionated7

i always thought i was bad at irish, but last night even though i was slightly under the influence i had quite a long conversation with a guy i dont really know that well at a house party... it all started simply because i asked him to "dún an doras"..
i think they lc irish course is abit off putting as people who feel irish is not their strongpoint can get lost is an extensive ream of pros and poems... however if u come out with your own cupla focail, surely there is light at the end of the tunnel for the irish language

gaeilgegrinds

I've been yelling & screaming (quietly!) at many meetings about scrapping the prose & poetry sections. Waste of time in my opinion! Leave them til college. One book or play enough to study but must be studied indepth! Then the love of Irish will be able to shine through!

Rozabeez

Ah but then it'd just be a slight step up from the JC.

gaeilgegrinds

Of course not! The standard of Irish would be much higher & the themes dealt with in the one text covered much more adult-like!

adam_ccfc

Don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over this whole thing!


You can come out with all the links and stats you want, it won't alter the utter contempt with which I hold the Irish 'language', or make me in any way appreciative of it.

In short, it's a pile of ****e!

Aard

I couldn't care less that you hate Irish. And I'm not trying to change that. I just want to know why you (and the other people) don't consider it a language and keep using air-quotes when talking about it.

Rozabeez

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

Of course not! The standard of Irish would be much higher & the themes dealt with in the one text covered much more adult-like!

Actually I see your points, rather than "be able to say this, this and this", people would have more time to focus on actually developing their own opinions of something in Gaeilge, instead of just trying to cover everything before the exam.

JSK 252

Forcing people to learn the Irish language is the wrong way forward. It should be made optional after the Junior Cert. If students hate Irish and have to do it for the leaving cert, it will turn into a burden for them and they will grow to hate the language even more. I do hate it though when people couldnt give 2 ****s about the langauge or just couldnt be bothered or arsed trying to learn it because its a waste of time. Fair enough if you have genuine learning difficulties with it but there is nothing stopping people learning cupla focail. Any other excuse is just farcical and a load of bull****. Its your culture, be part of it.

I love Irish so much and I hope by the time I do my leaving cert I can get at least an A2 in Ard leibheal with a bit of time and effort. I got an A in the JC with a bit of time and effort. ( On the other hand I hate English, weirdly enough)


To the ones who dont give a cnunt about the Irish language:

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.

Karlusss

To be honest, I think rhetoric doesn't help. There are people in the world that will never be convinced that compulsory Irish and revival attempts are the way forward no matter how much we the city leath-gaels emote about it.

I honestly don't know if there's a way to convince people who don't care that they should. There are huge amounts of people who don't pick subjects for exams because they like them but because they think they'll be easy. These are the people that wouldn't use Irish if they had it, wouldn't go out of their way to teach it to their kids, wouldn't send their kids to a Gaelscoil.

It's stupid to say it's not a language though. Irish is developing at the same rate as English. It's developing through contact with English, much like English developed through contact with Latin and later French. It also takes new words Scottish Gaelic and other languages. It's a language. Full stop.

JSK 252

Karlusss wrote:

To be honest, I think rhetoric doesn't help. There are people in the world that will never be convinced that compulsory Irish and revival attempts are the way forward no matter how much we the city leath-gaels emote about it.

I honestly don't know if there's a way to convince people who don't care that they should. There are huge amounts of people who don't pick subjects for exams because they like them but because they think they'll be easy. These are the people that wouldn't use Irish if they had it, wouldn't go out of their way to teach it to their kids, wouldn't send their kids to a Gaelscoil.

It's stupid to say it's not a language though. Irish is developing at the same rate as English. It's developing through contact with English, much like English developed through contact with Latin and later French. It also takes new words Scottish Gaelic and other languages. It's a language. Full stop.

Who the hell in this thread said its not a language? WTF? Of course its a language!

Insect Overlord

JSK 252 wrote:

Who the hell in this thread said its not a language? WTF? Of course its a language!

You should really read all the posts on a thread before you post something...

JSK 252

An Fhile wrote:

You should really read all the posts on a thread before you post something...

That post contributes nothing to this thread. There is no need to be smart in highlighting "all" in bold.

I only looked at the few posts above my post therefore I didnt read every single post as I didnt see the need in looking at EVERY post on this thread.

FYI, I now understand why the language was not considered a language having had the time to read the other posts.

Rozabeez

JSK 252 wrote:

I love Irish so much and I hope by the time I do my leaving cert I can get at least an A2 in Ard leibheal with a bit of time and effort. I got an A in the JC with a bit of time and effort. ( On the other hand I hate English, weirdly enough)

What year are you in now? I got an A in JC with about a 2% effort, LC is very different and I'll be lucky to get a C. You're better off dropping what I presume is cockyness and working VERY hard if you want an A2 in LC, dear.

JSK 252

Rozabeez wrote:

What year are you in now? I got an A in JC with about a 2% effort, LC is very different and I'll be lucky to get a C. You're better off dropping what I presume is cockyness and working VERY hard if you want an A2 in LC, dear.

Your presumption is wrong, love. Its called being positive which I am Thank God. Im going into 5th year and even though I was in 4th year last year we started the leaving cert course i.e a few poems (e.g jack) and a bit of stair so I do know what to expect aswell as doing a good bit of essay writing. So dont tell me that Im oblivious to what to expect next year.

Hopefully ( See there? Thats not cockyness its called being POS-IT-IVE) in August 2 years I will prove you wrong.

Rozabeez

I'm not doubting that you'll get an A2, I'm doubting that you'll get it with just a bit of time and effort. I was advising you to work hard at the subject. Also Stair na Teanga/OL poems are the easiest part of the course, its good that you got a head start with TY though.

JSK 252

Rozabeez wrote:

I'm not doubting that you'll get an A2, I'm doubting that you'll get it with just a bit of time and effort. I was advising you to work hard at the subject. Also Stair na Teanga/OL poems are the easiest part of the course, its good that you got a head start with TY though.

Stair isnt that easy as there is so much to cover and it is hard for teachers to cover the whole course in stair na gaeilge so students have a reduced choice in the exam even though there is such a large choice on the exam. ( Its sooo long the course) This is compounded by the multitude of poems and prose that have to be covered.

Thanks for the advice that you have to work hard at the subject. It wasnt needed but thanks anyway.

Rozabeez

Stair Na Teanga does not have to be covered in class, its probably easier to do it yourself. I'd recommend getting the Gael Linn magazines I think they're called? You might not be offered them until 6th year though, they'd give you all the Stair you need. And my advice is to others too, don't take posts so personally.

ZorbaTehZ

Rozabeez wrote:

Stair Na Teanga does not have to be covered in class, its probably easier to do it yourself. I'd recommend getting the Gael Linn magazines I think they're called? You might not be offered them until 6th year though, they'd give you all the Stair you need. And my advice is to others too, don't take posts so personally.

It's called being emo, which I'm sure you're aware off.

genericgoon

Stair is simple. Even a rudimentary knowledge of Irish history and folklore is a good way towards knowing enough.

gaeilgegrinds

An A in any subject is hard come by and even though I commend a positive attitude I would never advise saying someone's advise is not needed, in my opinion, we should all listen to others and take their experiences on board.