4 marathon questions from a 1st timer

depadz

1. getting into the double digit miles now and have a recurring blister in same spot. Have tried different socks. Is vaseline or those second skin things any use?

2. Around the 12 mark, am getting some postural shoulder discomfort. Any tips for this?

3. Do I have this right - From some of the guides I've read and the posts on here, you do the long runs slowly with shorter faster runs for speed. How do you pace yourself on the actual day. Should I plan to run the first half or 3/4 at a slower pace and then (hopefully!) have something in the tank to up the pace?

4. I'd like to run the full distance or as close as prior to the event. This is just a personal thing - I think I'd be less stressed out on the day if in my head I know I've done it before. Is this a complete no no? Granted I'm only up to 15miles, but I am very comfortable with the distances so far. It'd be great if I could get under 3:30 but my body feels comfortable in the 8min zone. I've never tried a heart monitor.

Peckham

fwedrest wrote:

1. getting into the double digit miles now and have a recurring blister in same spot. Have tried different socks. Is vaseline or those second skin things any use?

Vaseline works for some people, not me. Second skin socks definitely work for me....this one is definitely "different strokes for different folks". Have you definitely got the right running shoes? Would recommend a trip to one of the technical running stores - Damien McKeever who posts here owns one in Bray if that suits you and I'd highly recommend his store.

fwedrest wrote:

2. Around the 12 mark, am getting some postural shoulder discomfort. Any tips for this?

Are your shoulders tensed up when you're runing? Your wrists should be moving in line with your waist, not much higher.

fwedrest wrote:

3. Do I have this right - From some of the guides I've read and the posts on here, you do the long runs slowly with shorter faster runs for speed. How do you pace yourself on the actual day. Should I plan to run the first half or 3/4 at a slower pace and then (hopefully!) have something in the tank to up the pace?

Long runs should be done at a pace about 60-90secs slower than race pace (which you don't know yet), and short runs at whatever feels comfortable (but slower than race pace).
Steady pace is key on the big day. Good runners will do a faster second half than first as there is some in tank. Going out slowly is especially important for novice runners, as you need to avoid getting wrapped up in the excitement - which can be unavoidable and you find yourself doing the first two miles about 3 minutes quicker than planned (been there, done that, paid for it at miles 15-20!). As someone here (I think) said the other day, just remember that a marathon is actually two races - a 20 mile warm up, followed by 6.2 miles of "just hanging on in there" and following the guy in front!

fwedrest wrote:

4. I'd like to run the full distance or as close as prior to the event. This is just a personal thing - I think I'd be less stressed out on the day if in my head I know I've done it before. Is this a complete no no? Granted I'm only up to 15miles, but I am very comfortable with the distances so far. It'd be great if I could get under 3:30 but my body feels comfortable in the 8min zone. I've never tried a heart monitor.

Doing the race distance before the race is not advisable, and there's no reason to go above 22 miles or so. Doing runs of that length is not natural, and should be limited! After 22 miles you pass a point of diminishing returns where you will (a) have been running for as long (timewise) as on race day (as you're running at a slower pace), and (b) become more susceptible to fatigue (or worse, injury) making it more likely that you'll have to skip or cut short the next training session, thus having a negative impact on your training overall.

Great that you're feeling good about training so far. Are you going for Dublin? If so, you're in great shape if you're up to 15 miles already. Are you following a particular training plan?

depadz

thanks for the comprehensive reply peckham

I have about 100miles left in the kayana's I currently have and plan going there for next runners.

I think I hold my wrists a bit hiher up than waist level. Will focus on that.

yep aiming for the dublin marathon.
Roughly following the hal higdon one. Have been neglecting some of the shorter fast runs.

Peckham

fwedrest wrote:

Roughly following the hal higdon one. Have been neglecting some of the shorter fast runs.

Which Hal Higdon one? I thought all his plans were 12-16 weeks long and given that we're 19 weeks from the marathon (I know because my 18 week training plan starts next week), you've got to make sure that you don't peak too soon! Based on your current mileage (well, that you're up to 15 anyway), you certainly should be okay for one of Higdon's Intermediate plans (presuming you're getting out 4 times a week).

Wouldn't worry so much about missing shorter runs at this stage - although they're important, the long runs is where the real training happens!

Clum

fwedrest wrote:

1. getting into the double digit miles now and have a recurring blister in same spot. Have tried different socks. Is vaseline or those second skin things any use?

Two skin socks work for me, didn't try them in my first marathon, did in my second and haven't looked back since.

fwedrest wrote:

2. Around the 12 mark, am getting some postural shoulder discomfort. Any tips for this?

I could do some some tips on posture myself so fraid I can't really help there. I used to get upper torso pains after long runs so took my cross-training more seriously (swimming and light weights) and I think that helped, don't get pains anymore.

fwedrest wrote:

3. Do I have this right - From some of the guides I've read and the posts on here, you do the long runs slowly with shorter faster runs for speed. How do you pace yourself on the actual day. Should I plan to run the first half or 3/4 at a slower pace and then (hopefully!) have something in the tank to up the pace?

Most folk will possibly disagree with me here but I think it's down to level of fitness. I do a few of the long runs (not all) at race pace. At the moment I'm running hard over half marathon distances trying to bring my times down. Closer to marathons (later this year and next year) I'll run a couple of the 18 milers at race pace, if not faster, which I've done before (I'm not a pro or anything, aiming for a 3.15 finishing time). I will, however, do my other long runs at slower than race pace, I'll allow for plenty of recovery time between long, hard runs.

fwedrest wrote:

4. I'd like to run the full distance or as close as prior to the event. This is just a personal thing - I think I'd be less stressed out on the day if in my head I know I've done it before. Is this a complete no no? Granted I'm only up to 15miles, but I am very comfortable with the distances so far. It'd be great if I could get under 3:30 but my body feels comfortable in the 8min zone. I've never tried a heart monitor.

If you're clocking up enough miles, consistently, during the weeks of training you wont need to run the marathon distance prior to the race. I wont go over 22 miles in any training run. Everybody will tell you the support of the crowd will add an extra mile or two to your legs and I think it's true. Dublin last year had a great crowd out and helped me hugely over the last two miles when I was starting to fade big time. I did London once and I'd credit the huge crowds with adding an extra 3 or 4 miles to my training...not my fastest but certainly my most enjoyable marathon.

depadz

Peckham wrote:

Which Hal Higdon one?

Just following the schedule loosely. I didn't start it specifically for the dublin marathon but that will be my first one. I've recently stopped playing team sports due to age/family so am hoping this will be my new hobby and that I'll run maybe 2-4 a year. (i'll reserve the right to change my mind after the first one:) )

I'd be lying if I said I get out 4 times a week. Three times a week is a good week. Probably why I'm neglecting the short runs. If I'm cutting one out, its one of them that gets chopped.

I started off at a reasonably decent fitness level. Have always been active. Have run a couple of 10Ks over the years. Best time 38mins.

Thanks Clum. I think I'd be happy having done 22miles that I'd have another 4 in the legs. I'll aim for that to be my longest training run.

rovers_runner

Couple of questions:

1. I've reached about the same in milage as OP so far and haven't taken on water during the run at any stage yet. When would be a good time milage wise to work it in ? was thinking along the lines of 12 & 18 ?

2. This 22 mile wall ye say exists, is there any sudden fatigue that comes on and if so is there any way of being ready for it?

Clum

rovers_runner wrote:

Couple of questions:
1. I've reached about the same in milage as OP so far and haven't taken on water during the run at any stage yet. When would be a good time milage wise to work it in ? was thinking along the lines of 12 & 18 ?

I generally don't take on water for any run less than an hour but if I'm heading out for 1.5 hours, 2 hours, etc, I'll try to take on water after the first 30 mins and then every 30 mins (although this is not easy in training without water stations so have to either carry a bottle of water or plant them on my route before heading out).

Waiting until 12 miles for your first water stop is too late.

rovers_runner wrote:

2. This 22 mile wall ye say exists, is there any sudden fatigue that comes on and if so is there any way of being ready for it?

It's not easy identifying when the wall will come in to play. Not everybody hits it. With sufficient training done the average runner's muscles should hold enough fuel to get them through 18 to 20 miles. It's when this fuel burns out that we hit the wall. You'll see a lot of runners taking on isotonic drinks, glucose foods and energy bars during marathons to replace whats been burned, hoping to keep the wall at bay.

I've hit it a couple of times and in the lead up to it experienced muscle pains all over, serious fatigue and diziness. If you're going to hit it it's too late to avoid, extra fuel should have been taken on 30 mins or an hour previous. A lot of training for marathons involves eating correcty before, during and after long runs, not just getting the mileage in.

puredub

a good rule of thumb for drinking and eating throughout the marathon is to start drinking about 6 miles in and then approx every twenty minutes take about 1 cup full slowing down through water stations and then picking the pace back up again.Whatever race you are planning to do find out in advance what will be available to drink and eat,then during your training runs try out the fuel to see what will work for you water alone is not sufficient.Remember hydration starts the weeks before and not the day of the race so always be prepared and you will get to the start line ready.Clum is right in saying dont go over the 22 miles in training as you dont need to spend the time on your feet your longest run should be done approx 3 weeks out and then you start what is called a taper where you drop your mileage the following week by 25%,2 weeks out by 50%,then the week of the race by 75% .Long runs at converstaion pace with yourself or the dogs on the street,then your shorter runs at faster than marathon pace this will get you ready.As for the blisters where are you getting them??are your sox technical(coolmax are better as the coolmax wicks away moisture which leads to blisters, cotton socks hold moisture so when wet create clear blisters.Hope this helps good luck.

irelandsown

Bit worried reading some peoples milage on here. I'm training for Dublin in October and had my longest run yesterday of 9 miles. Am I leaving it too late?

I felt fine afterwards except for some chaffing, and could have gone for a few miles more. I missed a few weeks with a couple of injuries but am back in the swing of things now.

Anyone any advice for preventing chaffing also? Had a very embarrassing run last week when I got home I noticed my shirt was covered in blood. I was wondering why people were looking at me funny. :rolleyes:

Dinkie

Hi Irelandsown!

I did my longest run of 9 miles yesterday also!! - but on average i think I'm running around the 20km a week at the moment - which is what someone said is the least we should be doing earlier on (or in a different post).

I have been trying out different assortments of clothes in a bid to reduce chaffing.... vaseline is meant to help though. I don't know if you have tried that.

My main problem is that my legs seem to give up very easily and go week if that makes sense

quozl

irelandsown wrote:

Anyone any advice for preventing chaffing also? Had a very embarrassing run last week when I got home I noticed my shirt was covered in blood. I was wondering why people were looking at me funny. :rolleyes:

Waterproof surgical tape from a chemist. It stays on even if you sweat but is easy enough to remove yourself. About 3 euro a roll, great stuff.

This may not be a good recommendation if you're hairy though!

--amadeus--

An 18 week program for Dublin will only be starting this week (or next?) so don't worry about other peoples mileage. Training too hard for too long is worse than undertraining and you have got a lot of time left to build up the length of the LSR

Peckham

irelandsown wrote:

Anyone any advice for preventing chaffing also? Had a very embarrassing run last week when I got home I noticed my shirt was covered in blood. I was wondering why people were looking at me funny. :rolleyes:

A friend of mine who recently had a baby gave me some nipple cream she had. A lot thicker than vaseline and offers a lot more protection - am sure you could get it in Mothercare or even a chemist.

ss43

Peckham wrote:

Are your shoulders tensed up when you're runing? Your wrists should be moving in line with your waist, not much higher.

Why should wrists move in line with the waist. Would the longer lever (extended arm) not slow you down? Also, how would it affect a shoulder problem? You don't lift your wrist with your shoulder.

hunnymonster

taken from runners world
"Arms Even though running is primarily a lower-body activity, your arms aren't just along for the ride. Your hands control the tension in your upper body, while your arm swing works in conjunction with your leg stride to drive you forward. Keep your hands in an unclenched fist, with your fingers lightly touching your palms. Imagine yourself trying to carry a potato chip in each hand without crushing it. Your arms should swing mostly forward and back, not across your body,between waist and lower-chest level. Your elbows should be bent at about a 90-degree angle. When you feel your fists clenching or your forearms tensing, drop your arms to your sides and shake them out for a few seconds to release the tension. "

hunnymonster

nipple cream works well to prevent chafting as does a lube called bodyglide. The cheapest option I've found that works well is KY Jelly. I know some guys who stick plasters over their nips when they run. They're usually the one's without any chest hair.

copacetic

i use micropore tape for the nipples, it sticks well even for us hirsute men!
otherwise I found bodyglide great for avoiding chafing everywhere else, it's not messy at all and works really well. it can also help with blisters on your heels.

for the actually marathon, i wore compeeds on both heels, micropore tape on both nipples and bodglide on every other inch! it was like I was going to war. although it all worked out!

--amadeus--

I think this is another of teh "what works for you..." things. I wear cheapo cotton socks and have never bothered with tape, vasaline or whatever and have had very few problems, despite dire warnings, so it's not vital for everyone.

Noelisgod

irelandsown wrote:

Bit worried reading some peoples milage on here. I'm training for Dublin in October and had my longest run yesterday of 9 miles. Am I leaving it too late?

Anyone any advice for preventing chaffing also? Had a very embarrassing run last week when I got home I noticed my shirt was covered in blood. I was wondering why people were looking at me funny. :rolleyes:

At this point in your marathon training you should be up to 15 miles when going out for long runs. Nine miles aint good enough I'm afraid unless you want to suffer badly on the day and/or end up dropping out.

Regarding chaffing I recommend putting small circular plasters around your
nipple as this will provide complete protection and hence discomfort.

copacetic

Noelisgod wrote:

At this point in your marathon training you should be up to 15 miles when going out for long runs. Nine miles aint good enough I'm afraid unless you want to suffer badly on the day and/or end up dropping out.

Regarding chaffing I recommend putting small circular plasters around your
nipple as this will provide complete protection and hence discomfort.

well in fairness noel, you are 2 months late in your reply he will have moved on a lot since then...

ceidefields

For the chafing, do you not have Bodyglide in Ireland? I find it indispensable.

copacetic

ceidefields wrote:

For the chafing, do you not have Bodyglide in Ireland? I find it indispensable.

we do and it was mentioned above already.

Noelisgod

copacetic wrote:

well in fairness noel, you are 2 months late in your reply he will have moved on a lot since then...

I hope so pal or else he will be walking the marathon:p

hunnymonster

Everybody is different. My longest run before my first ever marathon was 10 miles and I ran the whole thing (3:50). I'm not suggesting that was clever or that I did myself justice but it illustrates that all sorts of things are possible.

KJF

Hi, I'm planning on running the october dublin city marathon. I have never done a 10K run before, let alone a marathon and I am planning on starting training today. Sounds like I'm leaving it incredibly late.
Should I think twice? Any advice?

copacetic

think more than twice!

unless you are already super fit, you really need 16 weeks training from
a base of 15-20 miles a week.

If you insist on trying it, walk a minute of so every mile from the start.

--amadeus--

KJF wrote:

Hi, I'm planning on running the october dublin city marathon. I have never done a 10K run before, let alone a marathon and I am planning on starting training today. Sounds like I'm leaving it incredibly late.
Should I think twice? Any advice?

It can be done but is not advisable and be realistic about what you can achieve, as already said unless you already have a base in endurance sports you probably won't run teh whole thing.