Dangerous car drivers

mcyclist

Almost got run off the road today by car on North Circular road. As ther was no way to overtake me the car driver tried to pass on the left side. No room either so he almost knocked me off. Then he tailgatted me until he managed to get passed.
This all happened at 7pm in normal commuter traffic. I wouldn't write about it except that I have had cars attempt to pass me on the left at least ten times in the past 6 months. I have been riding for 30 years and thought I had seen it all.
Has anyone had this experience recently?
I was going to report them to Gardai but changed my mind.:eek:

Chunkylover

I typed a big long message and then the pc crapped out, so in short yeah its happening more and more and in more dangerous places at higher speeds, think it could be mob mentality, they saw 1 person do it so why cant they

cb750

mcyclist
Forget about reporting something like that to Gardi, I've been there after a similar nut did the same to me on the M50. Traffic Corps my ar5e...
IMHO they just don't seem to bother enforcing half the rules of the road, but sure I don't think they even know the rules, don't get me started on the unmarked Ford Mondeos pushing their way through Dublin streets with a little twinkley blue fairy light on the dashboard :mad:

I'll stop here because I fear a rant comming on.

Patrick

murphaph

Some total tossers out there alright. I seem to get stuck behind more and more people on the M50 who won't move to the left to let me filter up the road. It's like they resent that they have to sit in the stationary traffic and want me to too!

tk123

Some people are muppets like this - "no biker i will not let you pass me - i'm going to speed up and veer off to the side so I can force you into oncoming traffic" :mad: When I'm in the car i always pull right over to let bikes in - usually because i'm stuck in traffic and cursing myself for taking the car instead of the bike!:rolleyes:

Pigeon Reaper

Try checking your road position to discourage cars trying to overtake/undertake dangerously. I also found high-vis made cars more likely to do this type of thing. I no longer wear Hi-vis as a result but do drive with lights.

Garibaldi

Sure, a car broke a red light, and turned right onto O'Connell bridge from the South Quays, this morning. He turned into the straight-on lane but, just as I was passing him up the right-turn-only lanes, he decided that he actually wanted to be in the right-turn lane furthest from him (two lanes away), and did the old trick of indicating at the moment that he turned the wheel, forcing me to veer violently to the right to avoid being taken out. And he looks at me like I did something wrong. Garda biker standing around at the lights couldn't have cared less. Quelle surprise. Just another near-miss.

OK, it's not strictly the kind of thing you're getting at, but the litany of driver stupidity in Ireland is absolutely staggering. All the high-vis and lights in the world won't make a difference when these commuter-cretins just don't look/care.

talkingclock

tk123 wrote:

Some people are muppets like this - "no biker i will not let you pass me - i'm going to speed up and veer off to the side so I can force you into oncoming traffic"

it's the little-man-syndrome they have...

Shane_C

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

Try checking your road position to discourage cars trying to overtake/undertake dangerously.

Exactly what I was gonna say. That the trick to staying safe is driving defensively. Overtake, lifesaver and straight back to just left of centre. As for people purposely getting in your way, those guys have issues. But I find far more people try to get out of my way.

smoc

Pigeon Reaper wrote:

Try checking your road position to discourage cars trying to overtake/undertake dangerously. I also found high-vis made cars more likely to do this type of thing. I no longer wear Hi-vis as a result but do drive with lights.

Strange but I found this works too. They think your a Cop i think (or Gardai )

mcyclist

Thanks for all the replies. I shouldn't really be surprised. Car drivers always seemed to be blind to motorcyclists. But the behaviour I witnessed was lethal.
As i said, the same behaviour has happened to me a few times in the past 6 months. A few weeks ago on the N6 to Galway a young woman attempted the same manouver at 70mph. between Kelbeggan and Moate!

Anyway be safe because there really are some nuts out there.

Mr. Presentable

murphaph wrote:

Some total tossers out there alright. I seem to get stuck behind more and more people on the M50 who won't move to the left to let me filter up the road. It's like they resent that they have to sit in the stationary traffic and want me to too!

As both a motorist and motorcyclist I offer the following. You are required to occupy a lane unless you have good reason to change lanes. That is, you are not entitled to create your own in between lane to "filter along" in traffic. I got a ticket for doing that once

Car drivers expect you to keep well in to the left, they think of you as a motorised bicycle :eek: , and when you don't, they expect you to be using your mirrors as they do to keep aware of developments all around them.

In the end, as an exposed commuter, the motorcyclist has to be more defensive and more alert than the motorist.

art

nipplenuts wrote:

As both a motorist and motorcyclist I offer the following. You are required to occupy a lane unless you have good reason to change lanes. That is, you are not entitled to create your own in between lane to "filter along" in traffic. I got a ticket for doing that once

Car drivers expect you to keep well in to the left, they think of you as a motorised bicycle :eek: , and when you don't, they expect you to be using your mirrors as they do to keep aware of developments all around them.
.

That's a fair bit patronising.

About one in ten motorists use the mirrors from my experiences and several don't seem to be even looking out the widescreen at all going by how they drive. On the canal the other week, whilst stopped waiting an opportunity to filter safely past the jammed traffic there, a car passed me by on the other side going just about 20mph with the driver's head down reading the newspaper all the while. I've yet to see any motorocyclist do that. Or be holding a mobile to their ear while driving. Or have their head stuck in the mirror applying make up while driving (though tk123 may yet enlighten me more on that one ...)

karltimber

I drive defensively at all times.

On me bike - I keep out from the kerb to make cars wait/indicate.(mainly country back roads)
Kawasaki - Center of lane at all times with lights on.
In car - canter of lane as above.

If you keep left of lane , people will tailgate in order for you to move over further. If you give people room -they will try to squeeze past.
It is dangerous out there alright - especially when you see cars with there rear wipers on and it not raining - just goes to show how much they use the mirrors.

K

bandit*baby

cb750 wrote:

mcyclist
IMHO they just don't seem to bother enforcing half the rules of the road, but sure I don't think they even know the rules,

Ye but bikers get away with murder becaue they don't fully enforce all the rules of the road

on the subject though I've had so many near accidents because of idiots trying to dangerously over-take me, and tail-gatin ahhh don't get me started its IMHO the most dangerous thing you can do on the road

murphaph

As bikers we get to see much more bad beahviour on the M50 because we can filter to the head of any jam and see the accident etc. ourselves. Just yesterday traffic was moving really slowly in lane one heading northbound approaching the N4. This would be highly unusual as normally traffic leaving the M50 to the N4 allows lane 1 traffic to speed up considerably over traffic in lane 2. Turns out the reason was some fatcat in a big merc reading a solicitors letter as he motored along at 20 mph. :rolleyes:

I wonder does a chap like that use his mirrors before manouvering.

Soooo many people change lanes on the M50 and signal after they've crossed the lines or not at all. I expect someday I will be hit, no matter how hard I look out for the tell tale 'twitching' and so on. I tend to be happier when cars are moving at about 25mph and side by side rather than staggered as they are far less likely to try to change lanes when side by side.

The Doktor

art wrote:

.... I've yet to see any motorocyclist do that. Or be holding a mobile to their ear while driving....[/i]

Ive seen it!!!! AND texting on bikes!

lord lucan

karltimber wrote:

I drive defensively at all times.

On me bike - I keep out from the kerb to make cars wait/indicate.(mainly country back roads)
Kawasaki - Center of lane at all times with lights on.
In car - canter of lane as above.

If you keep left of lane , people will tailgate in order for you to move over further. If you give people room -they will try to squeeze past.
It is dangerous out there alright - especially when you see cars with there rear wipers on and it not raining - just goes to show how much they use the mirrors.

K

yep,that sums up my experiences pretty well although i must take my hat off to most truck drivers,they're the only group who seem to understand how to overtake properly ie. indicate and move into adjacent lane,pass and then rejoin in front but leaving loads of room between you and them. i'm sick of cars overtaking me by squeezing by me with inches to spare when there's a whole lane free beside them:mad:

Odysseus

I was reading this thread yesterday and thinking about all the times similar has happened to me. Anyway I have to ride into town to go the shops, I going alond a country road coming up to a crossroads, I have right of way there are stop signs on the other two entry points. This guy pulls out in front of me only stopping when I repeatedly use the horn he was already in my side of the road! I do a hefty enough commute, sometimes it just feels that everybody is trying to kill you!!!

Mr. Presentable

art wrote:

That's a fair bit patronising.

[/i]

Really? I was aiming for condescending

cb750

nipplenuts
Your post may have been taken as patronising or even condescending
But I also have doubts about "filtering"
I don't think filtering is such a good idea, we bikers put ourselfs at risk when we squeeze between other vehicles especially when those vehicles are moving.
I know we all do it and it is a big advantage of being on a bike but all it takes is one half asleep twit for filtering to go wrong and in fairness the filtering biker has to take a fair bit of responsability for putting himself in harms way.

Patrick

murphaph

If you don't filter, you may as well drive a car. I see no benefit of my bike if I don't filter on it. It is riskier than sitting in lane of course, but what can one do.

Mr. Presentable

murphaph wrote:

It is riskier than sitting in lane of course, but what can one do.

To be fair, one can stay in lane in accordance with the rules of the road. It's a bitch, no argument there, but it is risky - every car door you pass is a potential accident

bandit*baby

TBH the majority of near misses i've had haven't been while filtering - if you know how to do it properly its realtively save(ish)

it tends to be more of a bully mentallity that car-drivers have where they see something smaller than them and just don't see consequences for themselves - how much damage can a bike do to their car idiot's attitude

Round-a-bouts (sp?) are also death traps if you dont use them correctly - just balled a mate of mine out of it last night for the way he went through them

Dorsanty

Filtering definitely more of a personal choice then something you should always do just cause you on a bike.

It's a roll of the dice when you do it and it's never 100% the cars fault if you end up on a bonnet. Just try to keep the speed differential within a sensible amount and all should be well. No need to do 80kph passed 20kph traffic (I know someone who admitted to doing this).

My choice is to only filter in stopped or very slow traffic. I won't start filtering because traffic is 10kph under the limit.

stipey

As a previous poster said, the closest calls I have had on 2 wheels have not been while filtering. When filtering I rarely go over 15km/h. That way if something happens from somebody changes lanes without indicating (rare, I know :rolleyes: ) or somebody stepping out from behind a van or bus I can stop easily.

Yesterday, I was stopped at the lights at Newlands Cross yesterday (having come down the N7 from the CityWest direction). The lights went green and I pulled off - didn't jump the lights and didn't hare out of the traps. Half way across the junction I notice that a guy coming from the opposite direction (Red Cow to Newlands Cross) has broken the lights and is doing a U-turn. I think "Naughty boy" move over left a bit in my lane and touch the brakes to see what he is going to do. Thankfully he keeps the U-turn tight and goes into the right most lane - keeping fairly clear of me... so i start on my way again. Then he apparently notices that the traffic up ahead is very heavy and decides that he will scoot across 3 lanes of traffic (without indicating) to use the 24 hour bus lane. Cutting right across me... my front wheel was literally* 6 to 8 inches from his back bumper.

* and I do mean literally. (I'm not talking your "he was literally driving at 6 million miles an hour loike" sense)

bandit*baby

friend of mine was nearly run off the road twice my the guards yesterday:rolleyes:

Luckycharm

As a Motorist and Scooterist - I find I drive very defensively on the bike. Filtering I find is the most dangerous especially past trucks, vans where you can see what is in front of them.
Thankfully I don't use Dual carriageways/M50 on my way in to work as I find them lethal.
Also the amount of Idiots I see on Motorbikes/scooters that basically drive down the middle of road past static traffic which cars coming the other way that have to move over to avoid them. One time one of these cars will not be looking properly and they are going to get minced.

bandit*baby

Luckycharm wrote:

As a Motorist and Scooterist - I find I drive very defensively on the bike. Filtering I find is the most dangerous especially past trucks, vans where you can see what is in front of them.
Thankfully I don't use Dual carriageways/M50 on my way in to work as I find them lethal.
Also the amount of Idiots I see on Motorbikes/scooters that basically drive down the middle of road past static traffic which cars coming the other way that have to move over to avoid them. One time one of these cars will not be looking properly and they are going to get minced.

i did say if you know how to do it properly its relatively safe.....
obviously this is not the correct way to filter in traffic

Also keep an eye out for dopey pedestrians. A few weeks ago on Patrick street I was filtering through traffic and this stupid person steps out infront of the lorry I was passing, she was staring at her phone the whole time, never mind the traffic, I slammed on the front brake, missed hitting her by about 6 inches and then she tells me to look where Im going. She was damn lucky that I was, because she sure as hell wasnt minding her own surroundings! I was only moving at about 10kph but I still shudder to think what could have happened.

bandit*baby

then they are the ones that can claim from you ..... idiots

or cyclists ... some of the most dangerous people on the road are on a pushbike

Luckycharm

bandit*baby wrote:

then they are the ones that can claim from you ..... idiots

or cyclists ... some of the most dangerous people on the road are on a pushbike

Have to agree had more close calls with Pedestrians and cyclists then cars.

bandit*baby

Luckycharm wrote:

Have to agree had more close calls with Pedestrians and cyclists then cars.

the most annoying part is that no matter how blatantly (sp?) in the wrong they are and no matter how f*cked up you or your bike get they will ALWAYS be in the right .....

Thinkingaboutit

A bicycle is not automatically in the right in all intances, but it is reasonable to assume that in case of a problem.

cb750

I know I may look like a plonker when I'm sitting in lane behind other vehicles but hay I'm an alive plonker
Roundbouts? Hmm... in this country we get what we deserve "traffic light controlled roundbouts" :mad: That takes away from the whole reason for a roundbout, to keep traffic flowing, we may as well have a cross roads.
Imagine the "Red Cow cross roads" I shudder just thinking about it.

Patrick

Hotblack Desiato

nipplenuts wrote:

To be fair, one can stay in lane in accordance with the rules of the road.(

Filtering is NOT against the rules of the road. FFS.

art

Just had one of those cases there now on the way home where I was driving in my lane and a car decided to come in and join me in the lane too.

Was driving along fine, small car behind me, I'm scanning ahead for an upcoming right-turn and next thing I realise small car is seemingly three inches from my left knee. I accelerated ahead and then stopped (at lights) walked back meaning to just say something along the lines of "cop yourself on" - I wasn't in a haze of road rage or anything, just a bit startled, though can see now in reflection I shouldn't have bothered. Wildlife at the side of the road then joined in with shouts of "leave her alone will you" etc. Woman driver I discovered. Anyhow, was thinking afterwards what I should really have done was just take out my camera phone and snap a picture of the car's reg plate. Then drive off leaving her wondering for the weekend what the **** I did that for...!?

Mr. Presentable

ninja900 wrote:

Filtering is NOT against the rules of the road. FFS.

No, but changing lanes without good reason, and driving into oncoming traffic is. FFS right back atcha

McCalvin

nipplenuts wrote:

No, but changing lanes without good reason, and driving into oncoming traffic is. FFS right back atcha

Just out of curiousity, what is your definition of filtering?

Because mine wouldn't be changing lanes or driving against the flow.

murphaph

Nor mine, I usually only filter on the congested M50. Right up between the two lanes of near stationary traffic.

MrPudding

Right. This filtering and lane splitting thing is doing my head in.

First of all let me state what I think it is. For me, filtering and lane splitting are one and the same. If there are two lanes of traffic moving in the same direction and you are moving between them then that is filtering. If there is one lane of traffic moving in your direction and you are passing that on the right then you are overtaking, not filtering. That is what I think. Do you guys agree?

Now, the legality of it. I have been talking to a mate who is a motorcyclist and a cop in the UK. According to him in the UK filtering is considered, by the letter of the law, to be illegal. That said, it is generally ignored unless the rider is doing it in a fashion that is considered to be dangerous or is doing other stuff that marks him out as a muppet.

I am not sure what the legal status is in Ireland but most riders believe it is legal. I was having a discussion about this recently and I was thinking it might be illegal under the "passing on the left" rule, but I have been thinking that the get out clause there might be that you are allowed to pass on the left where traffic is moving in queues....

Let me finish by saying that I filter all the time so I am not an anti filter maniac, I would just like to know what the actual story is.

MrP

art

I think driving irresponsibly is illegal, over-taking - which is in essence what filtering is - is legal, and that's the nub of it. Plus, I would have a deep suspicion that the person who started this whole argument off, doesn't actually ride a bike at all.

Thinkingaboutit

Cars pulling out without looking is the main danger for me, aside from certain classy individuals who speed up when I am overtaking. The H-D borekit/Streetrod (insurance permitting for the second as I will see if getting it restricted will fly with the insurer) will not be before time.

Thinkingaboutit

Thinkingaboutit wrote:

Cars pulling out without looking is the main danger for me

They don't look and they sure as hell dont indicate either, lazy b******s!

Idleater

Thinkingaboutit wrote:

Cars pulling out without looking is the main danger for me

Just a FYI, but a Cop car pulled out in front of me today.

So just be aware that even those you suspect most unlikely to do it, may in fact just do that.

Expect the unexpected.

Similarly, later in my journey, some bint in a MPV decided that she needed to cut across my lane to get onto the roundabout (2 on lanes) and brushed my arm.

So to be aware also that those you suspect most likely to do it, probably will just do that.

Expect the unexpected.

L.

Luckycharm

nereid wrote:

Just a FYI, but a Cop car pulled out in front of me today.


L.

Did the cop stop you/ say anything to you?

Fr Dougal

I had to collect someone from the airport on Sunday lunchtime but flight was delayed so I had to pull away from the departure area and pulled over about a couple of hundred yards past it in a cutaway bus stop to wait and loop around when the flight landed (I was in the car, not the bike) Just past where I was waiting there was a bend with 2 lanes of traffic, one way heading out of airport.

I had to wait about 25 minutes and was just watching the cars go by. Out of several hundred cars that passed, maybe half of them were taxi's. 95% of the taxi's just drove straight across from one lane to another to cut out the bend and then back to their lane (none indicated). A lot of other cars did the same but I was suprised to see such blatant misuese of lanes by the taxi drivers.....

Idleater

Luckycharm wrote:

Did the cop stop you/ say anything to you?

nah, they started out of a junction, and stopped halfway into my lane.

I was aware of the possibility of this so I was able to stop and wave them to continue across. To be fair, I was doing at most 50kmph and was well able to take the circumstances into account.

They knew they were in the wrong, and they could see that if I hadn't been aware of the possibility of them doing what they did, they would have been in serious trouble.

I thought it best to leave it at that. I learned from it, they learned from it - which is more than can be said for most people that do the "sorry mate, I didn't see ya".

L.

Fr Dougal

Fr Dougal wrote:

I had to collect someone from the airport on Sunday lunchtime but flight was delayed so I had to pull away from the departure area and pulled over about a couple of hundred yards past it in a cutaway bus stop to wait and loop around when the flight landed (I was in the car, not the bike) Just past where I was waiting there was a bend with 2 lanes of traffic, one way heading out of airport.

I had to wait about 25 minutes and was just watching the cars go by. Out of several hundred cars that passed, maybe half of them were taxi's. 95% of the taxi's just drove straight across from one lane to another to cut out the bend and then back to their lane (none indicated). A lot of other cars did the same but I was suprised to see such blatant misuese of lanes by the taxi drivers.....

Nobody should be surprised by what taxi drivers do on the roads anymore.:D

bandit*baby

MrPudding wrote:

I am not sure what the legal status is in Ireland but most riders believe it is legal. I was having a discussion about this recently and I was thinking it might be illegal under the "passing on the left" rule, but I have been thinking that the get out clause there might be that you are allowed to pass on the left where traffic is moving in queues....

ok so as far as i know it legal as long as the traffic in both lanes is stationary ... with regards to over-taking usual rules apply eg broken white line

Torq

Hi Guys,
In the last week while traveling at 100kph on our primary roads I've had,

1. A car pull out infront of me from a side road causing me to brake heavily so not to rear end the nice lady driver and her daughter in the colt with blacked out windows.

2. A fat bloke in a primera, overtake me on a hatched section of road and force me into the hard shoulder so he wouldn't then hit on coming traffic

3. A bloke in a citroen try to undertake me on a roundabout as I was rurning into my exit. (obviously this didn't happen at 100kph!)

If I'd been on the bike I wouldn't have been too surprised but as I was driving a dayglo green ducato van (you really can't miss it!!) at the time this dangerous driving has shocked me! I guess that these days it's true "size doesn't matter" anymore!!
keep well,
Torq

P.S. Just in case anyone thinks I'm saying that size of vehicle gives priority I'm not. My point is that road manners have detereiorated to a point that people are quite willing to take risks with larger vehicles that they will quite probably come out much worse against.