MSL Dublin Service

MarkN

Darragh29 wrote:

Just a question... Why are you people all going to hugely overpriced, dreadfully inefficient, customer repelling dealerships that are literally financially raping you when you go to them???

As has been said, warranty.

You try getting ANY manufacturer to replace something in your car after you bring it to an independent garage and they will laugh you out of their service dept quicker than you can imagine!

Whoever put up a post about going to Belfast seems like a great idea.

BrianD3

Darragh29, where is your garage? 380 for a timing belt kit change on a Passat sounds like very good value indeed. I would imagine a Dublin main dealer would charge around 700-800.

If Belgard are indeed charging 110 labour per hour that is shocking but not all main dealers are that bad. The Renault main dealer that I sometimes use charges 60 per hour but that's outside Dublin and of course Renault is not a "prestige" make like VW :rolleyes: For comparsion, my favourite independent at the moment charges 35 per hour.

ballooba

BrianD3 wrote:

Darragh29, where is your garage? 380 for a timing belt kit change on a Passat sounds like very good value indeed. I would imagine a Dublin main dealer would charge around 700-800.

€1200 actually. I priced it a few months back when I was getting it done. The Independent charged €550 I think.

macrubicon

I am truely amazed that MSL in Pottery still get away with the same crap time and time again.

I have had long and painful issues....

I had a 99 Passat TDI, and it had a recall on something to do with the front suspension arm ( a bushing I seem to recall ). It had to go to MSL as Jetstar ( my normal service place ) were no longer allowed carry out warrenty work.

MSL clear the car as needing no work and away we go. Fast forward 3 months to when I drop the car into Jetstar for a service and to have a look at a bit of an off noise from the front suspension. Low and behold it was whatever part MSL had cleared from the warrenty recall.

So I contact MSL to inform them of a rather costly repair job done because they did not replace the part from the recall. They deny any issue. So onto MDL and the chap who issued the recall letter ( I keep all the letters and get them signed off by the garage just in case ) and after he sees the invoice from Jetstar he agrees that they will refund the cost of the parts. But I have to process the paperwork through MSL - Oh Dear...

We then enter into MSL stating that they cannot confirm that the part is genuine, we point out that the part was bought from them ! Still the same story.

The long and the short of it was that I was hung up on by the "customer service manager" after she would not accept that it was their part etc.

In the mean time, I had bought a new B6 Passat from Grange ( using the guy that we have been dealing with for years - he has been very good to us ) and our sales man refunded the cash just to get it closed fair play to him.

My new Passat has been back to MSL twice for warrenty work ( Recalls and a problem fuse with the demister on delivery ), but I leave it with Grange and my sales guy kindly provides a car for me if I need one and drops it up to MSL - he knows I just can't deal with them anymore...

I use Jetstar for all my normal servicing and they are great... I use MSL when I have no alternative. Always get your MSL rep to do a walkaround your car with you before and after - they are buggers for kerbing alloys by all accounts as well as other damage.

The guys behind the doors just don't seem to care about what they do. After the recall ( actually 4 jobs over 2 recalls that happened to arrive together ) the facia around the radio was not put back right - it was as clear as day as none of the lines joined and around buttons and dials were off. Rather than deal with them again, I simply sorted it myself. It's as if there is no quality control in what they do ( or just no quality at all ! )

MarkN

Sounds all so similar!!

They are just a bunch of cowboys.

The thing is I have found Grange Motors time and time again absolutely brilliant to deal with, used the same guy all the time etc but MSL Pottery let the dealers who no longer have a service dept. down so much.

I've have heard some good things about Sheehy's today too from someone who had the car serviced there.

JHMEG

MarkN wrote:

As has been said, warranty.

What does your manual say about this?

My car manual states that the warranty remains intact if the work is up to standard and OEM parts are used. It's very difficult to fsck up a regular service, so much so that I bypass the independents (even) and do all the work myself. Godammit the manual even tells the owner how to perform the service themselves!

randomer

Not sure if this will be a popular post, but I actually think MSL have improved dramatically in the last 12 to 18 months.

I had a some major problems with MSL in Pottery Road a couple of years ago, but eventually got it sorted. My car was in the dealers for over 9 months in my 18 months of ownership.

I now have a new car and have brought it to MSL four times in the last twelve months (twice for services, once for a break fix and one for a warranty issue) and I have to say that there is a huge difference in the service that I received and the athmosphere in the place.

I was out there most recently last week and I was getting a lift to my office from the taxi guy who works for MSL and I asked him what the difference was and he told me that there is a new general manager there and he has turned things around. All staff now work on a bonus scheme and a number of staff have left.

(I have just had a look at my post and it reads sort of like an MSL testimonial. Just to confirm, apart from having my car serviced there, I have no connections to MSL).

randomer

JHMEG wrote:

What does your manual say about this?

My car manual states that the warranty remains intact if the work is up to standard and OEM parts are used. It's very difficult to fsck up a regular service, so much so that I bypass the independents (even) and do all the work myself. Godammit the manual even tells the owner how to perform the service themselves!

That is correct. Provided you use the correct parts the warranty will be honoured by the manufacturer.

crosstownk

Once you can prove OEM parts and a qualified mechanic then your warranty remains intact. Nor are you bound to the place of purchase - your warranty is European with breakdown assistance across Europe. Forcing you to stay with main dealer servicing is tantamount to a cartel/monopoly and is prohibited by European law.

I'm not in the least surprised to see the responses here about MSL. Most people on this forum only have to visit the dealer 1,2 or 3 times year. More than 5 or 6 times if you're really unfortunate. I've to deal with the VW Service Depts (including MSL) every day of the week and believe me they are as bad as this thread portrays them and worse sometimes. If there was a name and shame thread I could run amok.

MarkN

So it seems your warranty can't be affected by going independent..

Point is though, you should be able to feel that going to a main dealer you are not going to be raped and that they are competent enough to fix/service your car.

Not everyone has a car that is an A to B job and just requires an oil and filter change and there's not enough specialist garages in this country (advertising their services anyway) to provide that service so it's easier to bring your high performance car or whatever to the company that represents the people who built it.

Ger the man

Buy a Japanese car.

MercMad

Despite what the warranty documents state, I think if you have a problem with a car still covered by warranty you will have a very hard job trying to persuade anyone at MDL/MSL that all work had been done to the "correct standard".

All they have to do is ask for relevant training certificates for the model in question. When you cant produce them........they'll give you the bird !! Its a sh1tty loophole that they will exploit !

Its a pity that there arent more "approved" independent specialist over here, as in the UK !

Ger the man

Why Japanese? I dont need to answer that question. It all depends how you view a car imo. This country has gone very materialistic in recent years and we all want bigger (so called 'prestige') brands, main dealers have copped onto this and are now ripping off the motorist. Its all about the size of your genitals and showing off! The end result is that you are still stuck on the M50 every morning behind the guy in the 92 micra and in front of the guy in 07 bmw. I honestly do not see the point in buying overpriced, overrated cars that are overloaded with sensors that monitor useless information. I once saw a guy broken down in a 07 merc s class, the bonnet up and smoke bellowing from it, a grey haired old man walked by and said to him "Should have bought a jap car son!" My neighbour drives a 92 corolla (320k on the clock, original engine and g/box)that laughs in the face of the nct every time its due
My 2c worth.

JHMEG

MarkN wrote:

Not everyone has a car that is an A to B job and just requires an oil and filter change

High performance or not, every car requires oil and a filter changes. Anyone competent with cars can do it.

As for high performance cars needing specialists at all any, well any good, experienced mechanic will be able to deal with any car. To a mechanic an S3 is a Golf with a turbo and 4WD...

whippet

Ger the man wrote:

Why Japanese? I dont need to answer that question. It all depends how you view a car imo. This country has gone very materialistic in recent years and we all want bigger (so called 'prestige') brands, main dealers have copped onto this and are now ripping off the motorist. Its all about the size of your genitals and showing off! The end result is that you are still stuck on the M50 every morning behind the guy in the 92 micra and in front of the guy in 07 bmw. I honestly do not see the point in buying overpriced, overrated cars that are overloaded with sensors that monitor useless information. I once saw a guy broken down in a 07 merc s class, the bonnet up and smoke bellowing from it, a grey haired old man walked by and said to him "Should have bought a jap car son!" My neighbour drives a 92 corolla (320k on the clock, original engine and g/box)that laughs in the face of the nct every time its due
My 2c worth.

yawn ..... I don't think I have ever heard that sort of comment before !!!

The reality is that some people (obviously not you) have a love of cars and of certian types of car .. if you don't get it, the motor forum is probably not the place for you.

I am stuck on the M50 twice a day .. it is a drag .. but when I get out of the city at evening and at the weekends I have a grin on my face due to the car I drive and to me that is worth the money I pay for it.

Personally I would prefer to be sitting in my car with it's creature comforts than a 20 year old micra !!

Back to the nature of the thread .. I bought my new VW from Belgard and they got the sale as I found them to be the nicest and most professional of all the VW dealers I called into or phoned. I had eleven weeks between order and delivery and not once did I have to call to chase the status of the order. I got a call almost every friday evening at about 5pm to let me know the latest.

But I must say that from Blackrock motors I didn't even get a call back when I requested a quote, Park Motors obliged with a test drive outside of hours but when I mentioned the pricing I got from other dealers they suddenly wouldn't even call me back .. no interest in my business.

I have no idea what Belgard will be like from an Aftersales slant but at least I know who not to deal with now! .

Ger the man

Like I said - 'It depends on how you view a car'. I know of countless storys of people giving out about german cars and they are not what they used to be. If you want reliability buy jap.

crosstownk

whippet wrote:

I have no idea what Belgard will be like from an Aftersales slant but at least I know who not to deal with now! .

Aftersales is a mess. All well and good if you just need regular servicing - but if you get a problem that's not straight forward to fix then you will have a whole different experience!!!

whippet

Ger the man wrote:

Like I said - 'It depends on how you view a car'. I know of countless storys of people giving out about german cars and they are not what they used to be. If you want reliability buy jap.

true to an extent, my previous motor was a VAG and appart from one lamba sensor I had no work done outside warranty and regular services over 4 years and 75k miles .. but to be honest I couldn't pay over my hard earned loot for a bland jap motor.

Ger the man

Weigh up being stranded on the side of the road against driving nicely along, I know which Id choose.

Bland?
Subaru Impeza Turbo, Legacy Turbo
Mitsubishi Evo, Nissan Skyline etc.

Lexus have sold more cars in the luxury market than anyone else in the last 2 years, closely followed by Honda.

whippet

Ger the man wrote:

Weigh up being stranded on the side of the road against driving nicely along, I know which Id choose.

Bland?
Subaru Impeza Turbo, Legacy Turbo
Mitsubishi Evo, Nissan Skyline etc.

Lexus have sold more cars in the luxury market than anyone else in the last 2 years, closely followed by Honda.

I have never been stranded on the side of the road and I have never driven a Jap car !!

of course there is a few jap cars that break the mould .. but loose all practicalities .. the Evos and WRX's do not have this mythical Jap bulletproofness .. so that sort of flies in the face of your argument.

The raw rally car isn't the type of car that would appeal to me or many others who like a bit of comfort with their performance.

As for the Lexus .... I would fall asleep looking at it .. never mind driving it. When you talk about luxuary .. are you talking about S-Class, & Series market or exec saloons .. 5Series, A6, E-Class ? Becuase if you look around the roads of ireland or the UK for every LS430 or GS300 you will see 10 or 15 S-Classs or 7 Series !!! I think you may have made that fact/argument up!!

As for Honda in the luxury market ... all they have is the Legend in that segment.. which they probably sell about 5 a year in Ireland !!!

MarkN

JHMEG wrote:

To a mechanic an S3 is a Golf with a turbo and 4WD...

What's your point? The thread is about being able to leave your car with a main dealer not what your opinion is of a car! Someone who has instructions from Audi on what needs to be done to a car is obviously going to be in a better position than an independent who might not even know the model is out yet.

Ger - some people don't really like Japanese cars, same goes for German ones, that's the way it works. I'd much rather my car than any Japanese car in its price range thanks. No problems with it either, despite it coming from Germany!

JHMEG

MarkN wrote:

What's your point? The thread is about being able to leave your car with a main dealer not what your opinion is of a car!

Read again. And keep yer hair on! Performance car or not, they're all basically the same to a mechanic. They're all cars!

MarkN wrote:

Someone who has instructions from Audi on what needs to be done to a car is obviously going to be in a better position than an independent who might not even know the model is out yet.!

A good independent will know about, and happily tell you about, known problems with various models. Audi on the other hand will deny problems exist. (The pod in the TT for example, as featured on BBC's Watchdog).

Ger the man

whippet wrote:

I have never been stranded on the side of the road and I have never driven a Jap car !!

of course there is a few jap cars that break the mould .. but loose all practicalities .. the Evos and WRX's do not have this mythical Jap bulletproofness .. so that sort of flies in the face of your argument.

The raw rally car isn't the type of car that would appeal to me or many others who like a bit of comfort with their performance.

As for the Lexus .... I would fall asleep looking at it .. never mind driving it. When you talk about luxuary .. are you talking about S-Class, & Series market or exec saloons .. 5Series, A6, E-Class ? Becuase if you look around the roads of ireland or the UK for every LS430 or GS300 you will see 10 or 15 S-Classs or 7 Series !!! I think you may have made that fact/argument up!!

As for Honda in the luxury market ... all they have is the Legend in that segment.. which they probably sell about 5 a year in Ireland !!!

Again - its all about how you view a car. If you want the badge buy it but dont complain about the high running\repair costs.

Ive owned german/english and jap cars (from new) the current being japanese. I will never buy a german or english car ever again.

Visually I dont see much of a difference between an LS400 or its equivelant german counterpart? They are both big and boxy.

My bro in law works for the AA and has shown me reports for the last year giving details of customer break downs. In Ireland in 2006 according to the AA the car with the most break downs scored was a tie between the S class merc and the 7 series bmw, the biggest problem being electrics, Renault came third, Honda were not listed. His boss drives an LS400 with colossal mileage on it and not one probelm to date. In this country people get hung up on badge snobbery when it comes to cars and then cannot understand why they have problems costing a fortune to fix,check out www.cbg.ie. If you have never driven a jap car maybe you should try one, you might be suprised.

JHMEG

whippet wrote:

As for Honda in the luxury market ... all they have is the Legend in that segment.. which they probably sell about 5 a year in Ireland !!!

No interest in Irish market. No interest in European market.

One of the biggest luxury brands in the US is Acura

whippet

Ger .. you still haven't answered or addressed my questions about your 'facts' that Honda and Lexus are the top lux sellers?

If you think the LS430 and the 7 Series look the same ... I see little point left in trying to discuss the matter any more with you as we have a fundemental polarisation as to what a car looks like.

With your claim that SClass and 7 Series were the top of the breakdown league table ... a quick google might prove you wrong, as does this What car survey

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consumer/article.html?in_article_id=402711&in_page_id=5

Ger the man

whippet wrote:

Ger .. you still haven't answered or addressed my questions about your 'facts' that Honda and Lexus are the top lux sellers?

If you think the LS430 and the 7 Series look the same ... I see little point left in trying to discuss the matter any more with you as we have a fundemental polarisation as to what a car looks like.

With your claim that SClass and 7 Series were the top of the breakdown league table ... a quick google might prove you wrong, as does this What car survey

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consumer/article.html?in_article_id=402711&in_page_id=5

Fair enough,depends on who you beleive i suppose? The AA or thisismoney.

Darragh29

MarkN wrote:

As has been said, warranty.

You try getting ANY manufacturer to replace something in your car after you bring it to an independent garage and they will laugh you out of their service dept quicker than you can imagine!

Whoever put up a post about going to Belfast seems like a great idea.

Absolute crap. Firstly, this is illegal. Secondly, I know of several main dealers who send work out to independent garages, because they are more efficient and have more skilled technicians than their own franchised workshops. I've never in my life heard of a main dealer telling anyone that their car is not covered under warranty because work was done by an independent garage. In any event, how do you account for people choosing to have work done by these twats in main dealerships when the car is no longer under warranty???

whippet

Ger the man wrote:

Fair enough,depends on who you beleive i suppose? The AA or thisismoney.

That was the first hit I got when I googled ... I would believe the wave after wave of studies Ihave read in mags and see on TV and on the web over what a random punter on a motors forum said he heard from 'his bro in law' from the AA.

What you are trying to say is that Mercs and Beemers are the most unreliable cars .. when all other published studies would argue to the contary!!

You still haven't replied to my question as to where you came up with the notion that honda are one of the biggest sellers in the lux market? I am assuming you made a flippant off the cuff remark and are choosing to ignore my question as you can't qualify your original statement, which would the make me more sceptical as to the merits of you 'bro in law's sweeping factual statement.

Darragh29

MarkN wrote:

Someone who has instructions from Audi on what needs to be done to a car is obviously going to be in a better position than an independent who might not even know the model is out yet.

The chances are, when you leave your car into a main dealer, a first or second year apprentice is servicing your car.

JohnCleary

Darragh29 wrote:

The chances are, when you leave your car into a main dealer, a first or second year apprentice is servicing your car.

At least someone else agree's with me, you'd be surprised the amount of eejits that don't believe me when I tell them this. It's a total 50 50 I guess