House prices in Charlesland.

Hammiepeters

Cant say I disagree with any of that. And whatever you're selling; believe in it.

jackal

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Sorry, I'm bored!. Jackal. You are assuming that investors who borrowed money and bought properties as an investment to rent out; did so, when the market was at it's peak. Not so. And therefore, the people who rent those properties are paying the mortgages on those properties, no? Slinky, I think you confirmed this. €1500 a month services a fair ammount of a loan taken out when Charlesland was built.
Don't quite get your counter point on stamp duty. My point was that the moment it's mentioned by the media, the prospect of reform that is, people entering the market will hold off to see where that reform is applied.
As for the rental glut. Not in Charlesland. I think they're still going to let fairly quickly. Any more ''salient points''?

Hi Hammie,
Fair enough if an investor did not buy at the peak. 1500 a month might indeed service a fair bit of the loan. These canny investors must be laughing all the way to the bank with their yield of -3% or so.

My point about stamp duty was that the changes being called for would not affect most of the property for sale there, as none of the 2-bed apartments/townhouses would be considered trader-upper properties, they would be FTB properties and hence stamp duty would not have any bearing on the sale of those properties.

Perhaps you have a valid point about a general feeling of negative sentiment. I am just suggesting that stamp duty is a red herring, the real cause of negative sentiment is the price drops.

jackal

Heres the crux of the problem, its not stamp duty, its not uncertainty, its affordablilty.

From todays indo http://www.independent.ie/national-news/property-still-out-of-reach-for-nurses-1223571.html

For gardai, the average second-hand house in Dublin works out at nine times their average salary, and seven times salary across the entire country.

For a house in Dublin to be deemed affordable for a nurse, the average house price would have to be €171,000.

This is compared with the actual average house price of €473,479, up from €379,011 a year ago.

Even for gardai and secondary teachers in Dublin an affordable house price would need to be €260,000.

SlinkyToo

Well the problem there is the government is not paying Gardai and Nurses enough, not that house prices are too high. It does not mention that most single Gardai and Nurses are provided accommodation local to their place of work at reduced rent.

The average salary is 35k and therefore 5 times the salary would be 175k. What no one seems to talk about anymore are deposits. Where is the saver ethic instilled in us by our mammies?

The Irish Culture has changed from one of, stay at home until you had a decent deposit, to borrow up to your eyeballs and then moan about it on the RTE News when your home gets repossessed.

Also, people are moaning that they can't sell their starter homes for a 100k profit and they are desperate to move into somewhere bigger!!!

What happened to making do with cramped accommodation?, where little Bugnet might have to share with his brother for a few years!

This is the ultimate in keeping up with the Jonese's. You are competing with your neighbour for who has the most debt not the most affluence.

People should stop complaining they can't sell and be thankful they have a house they can only barely not afford to pay for.

Face the facts... people made bad investment choices and bought during the Gold Rush, only to find when they sifted the dirt that they had Iron Pirites.

The first Estate Agent in Greystones to have the balls to value a house at its real worth may receive a lower commission but when people see the house sell they will be inundated with new clients and clean up.

Roll on 6 months from now, when the wave of repossessions, evictions, debt related suicides and media outcry will allow people with the sense to bide their time to make a shrewd investment.

Callous and unsympathetic? Yes... Common Sense... Absolutely

jackal

*wags head* you go girlfreind! *clicks fingers*

Hammiepeters

jackal wrote: »

Heres the crux of the problem, its not stamp duty, its not uncertainty, its affordablilty.

From todays indo http://www.independent.ie/national-news/property-still-out-of-reach-for-nurses-1223571.html

The number of homeless Gardai and nurses at present is truly alarming. Perhaps we could do a song for christmas.

Hammiepeters

Good post Slinky. Makes a lot of sense.

Gurgle

miju wrote: »

you missed my point and i still stand by it. my point being that the growth in construction employment has masked / somewhat compensated for the 9% fall off in construction since 2001.

The figures show that 2001 was a short-term peak, not the end of an era.

i'm sure you can imagine the ramifications for employment here both in construction and subsidary industries such as retail and production.

Retail and production are hardly subsidiaries to production.
I'm still convinced the economy is in great shape and that a fall off in construction will boost manufacturing by increasing the availability of cheaper labour.

SlinkyToo

Interesting article in the Irish Times today. If House price trend continues until December, prices will be down by 7% this year and predicted to fall another 8% next year.

The average house price has fallen by 14000 euro.
Rental prices have risen accordingly due to demand.

Makes great reading for those with the money in the bank and watching wryly.

Lets hope the agents and sellers finally figure out that they are not in control anymore.

The Chessplayer

I can't believe that people would be surprised that Charlesland would lose value. It's about 20 miles from the city centre. If you want a secure investment in a fluctuating market, the closer to the city the better. City centre will hold its value. Charlesland is not real Greystones. It has more in common with the likes of Lucan....a sprawling mass of characterless terraces.

Hammiepeters

Another little ray of sunshine with his two cents worth! Charlesland is not anything like Lucan. Wicklow is one of the most desirable counties to live in and Nth Wicklow is ;like it or not; the most expensive county in the country to buy in. Many of us are not in it for the investment. More as a place to live. A nice one at that.

Tom123

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Another little ray of sunshine with his two cents worth! Charlesland is not anything like Lucan. Wicklow is one of the most desirable counties to live in and Nth Wicklow is ;like it or not; the most expensive county in the country to buy in. Many of us are not in it for the investment. More as a place to live. A nice one at that.

No one is saying it isn't a nice place to live but prices WILL fall much further and I think places like Charlesland will be hit worst than most.

Gurgle

The Chessplayer wrote: »

If you want a secure investment in a fluctuating market, the closer to the city the better.

Sure, in Paris, London, New York.
Real cities, with public transport and stuff.

Dublin is a sprawling town.

Maisy

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I can't believe that people would be surprised that Charlesland would lose value. It's about 20 miles from the city centre. If you want a secure investment in a fluctuating market, the closer to the city the better. City centre will hold its value. Charlesland is not real Greystones. It has more in common with the likes of Lucan....a sprawling mass of characterless terraces.

Since geographical pedantics are your thing, I take it you mean the nearest city, being Dublin, in the neighbouring county ?

Hmmm, Dublin city - high crime rates, folks being shot in their beds, rampaging stag and hen parties, stepping over post weekend pools of vomit on a Monday morning, increasingly crowded streets, or....

Charlesland/Greystones/Kilcoole/call it what you like, a rose by any other name and all that - fresh air, fantastic scenery, friendly folk, a lovely beach, the Garden of Ireland, Glen of the Downs, Glendalough, .... a gals gotta live somewhere and I am very happy in Charlesland, quality of life means a lot to me, its where I am happy to call home. A small but valid point, when I moved here from my previous place, which was much nearer Dublin city, my car insurance premium was reduced and I received a healthy rebate - nice eh ?!

I don't see the characterless terraces, I see nicely maintained homes that people take pride in. As do the good people of Lucan. If you yourself happen to own and live in a detached bespoke house in D2 I begrudge you not my friend, - I get the impression you do, otherwise your comments would just be a form of inverted snobbery, wouldn't they ?! .

flight93

Hmmm, Dublin city - high crime rates, folks being shot in their beds, rampaging stag and hen parties, stepping over post weekend pools of vomit on a Monday morning, increasingly crowded streets, or....

Could not agree more, but irrelevent.
Cities can be nasty and dangerous places London, Paris, New York even Dublin. People get shot, etc. This however seems to have little to do with the property prices. Like Maisy I would not like to live in these places. However just because Maisy and I do not like the idea of living in the city centre does not mean that city centre properties are not a better investments than Charlesland.

Another little ray of sunshine with his two cents worth!

I think that Maisy and Hammiepeters see it as insulting that people are pointing out what we all know to be true, property prices in Charlesland have dropped and are continuing to drop. This is not a personal attack, it is simply a fact that should be in no way taken as a reflection of your character. All you have to do is open your eyes to see this. Look at the number of homes for sale there and the drop in asking prices. Some estate agents are letting people go, some are closing. This does not just apply to Charlesland, it is happening across the country.

The fact that Maisy and Hammiepeters both like Charlesland will not reverse the downward trajectory of prices throughout the development. The fact that I find it unimaginative, bland and characterless will not change that fact either.

MrVostro

Maisy wrote: »

Hmmm, Dublin city - high crime rates, folks being shot in their beds, rampaging stag and hen parties, stepping over post weekend pools of vomit on a Monday morning, increasingly crowded streets, or....

And most importantly the jobs for the people who live there and the surrounding counties.

ian_m

Id much prefer to live in Charlesland than in the city centre.

iguana

ian_m wrote: »

Id much prefer to live in Charlesland than in the city centre.

But most people prefer to live a short distance from where they work. I have a 40 minute commute door to door at the moment, in London this is considered to be a fairly short commute. When I lived in Dublin I had a 15 minute stroll to work. The difference to my quality of life was immense.

And let's get real, not many people live in the city centre. Obviously there will be exceptions but the majority of people would choose living in Sandymount or Ranelagh over Charlesland.

However that doesn't mean any of those places is immune from the crash. There have been price drops in those places too. And even if they drop by a lower percentage they will drop by higher amounts as a 20% drop on a €1m house is more than a 30% drop on a €300k house.

The Chessplayer

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Another little ray of sunshine with his two cents worth! Charlesland is not anything like Lucan. Wicklow is one of the most desirable counties to live in and Nth Wicklow is ;like it or not; the most expensive county in the country to buy in. Many of us are not in it for the investment. More as a place to live. A nice one at that.

I'm sorry, but I'm just calling it like it is. I don't think Charlesland is that nice. It was developed purely because of it's proximity to Dublin in the communter zone. The majority of residents are not Wicklow people at all, let alone Greystones people. It is not representative of Wicklow as a county, or of Greystones. I think it has oodles in common with the likes of Lucan - sprawling, characterless, private (rather than social) developments - mostly terraced.

Its prices are driven and entirely dictated by its access to Dublin city (with a little extra added on because it's near Greystones). Such an unsustainable development, though, is highly susceptible to further price-falls. I consider that it has more in common with a 1980s sprawling council housing development that with, say, Rathdown Park. You may well raise an eyebrow at this but think - house size, all terraced, sprawling endless rows.

The Chessplayer

Maisy wrote: »

Since geographical pedantics are your thing, I take it you mean the nearest city, being Dublin, in the neighbouring county ?

Hmmm, Dublin city - high crime rates, folks being shot in their beds, rampaging stag and hen parties, stepping over post weekend pools of vomit on a Monday morning, increasingly crowded streets, or....

Charlesland/Greystones/Kilcoole/call it what you like, a rose by any other name and all that - fresh air, fantastic scenery, friendly folk, a lovely beach, the Garden of Ireland, Glen of the Downs, Glendalough, .... a gals gotta live somewhere and I am very happy in Charlesland, quality of life means a lot to me, its where I am happy to call home. A small but valid point, when I moved here from my previous place, which was much nearer Dublin city, my car insurance premium was reduced and I received a healthy rebate - nice eh ?!

I don't see the characterless terraces, I see nicely maintained homes that people take pride in. As do the good people of Lucan. If you yourself happen to own and live in a detached bespoke house in D2 I begrudge you not my friend, - I get the impression you do, otherwise your comments would just be a form of inverted snobbery, wouldn't they ?! .

I live in the city centre and I've never been shot or stabbed in my bed!!!

Wineman

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I live in the city centre and I've never been shot or stabbed in my bed!!!

we can only live in hope...troll.

EnoughSaid

HammiePeters - It sounds to me that you live in Cloudcuckooland and not Charlesland and not only that, you are also wearing rose tinted glasses. You need to wake up and smell the coffee!

Hammiepeters

EnoughSaid wrote: »

HammiePeters - It sounds to me that you live in Cloudcuckooland and not Charlesland and not only that, you are also wearing rose tinted glasses. You need to wake up and smell the coffee!

I dont need to wake up with a dismal outlook, Thank You. people like you and a few others on here have being talking doom and gloom almost since the inception of the so called celtic tiger. Now that things seem to have indeed stalled; you're having something of a field day. But whatever your views on the market as a whole; I resent people getting on here and running the place down. I equally resent doom and gloomers running the country down. Suggest that it is you who need to wake up to yourself and if you are lucky enough to live here; be thankful for it. Enoughsaid!!!!!!!!!!!!

flight93

I dont need to wake up with a dismal outlook

You dont wake up at all if you think prices have not dropped!

I resent people getting on here and running the place down

Code for if you don not love Charlesland and want to express your opinion I will not listen. In the utopia of Charlesland prices only go up and it never rains!!

I equally resent doom and gloomers running the country down.

Code for facts will not be tolerated if I do not like them. If anyone diagrees with any of the below "facts" call them "gloom merchants".
1) Charlesland is the best in the wold to live in
2) Charlesland represents value for money
3) Anyone with a "for sale" sign up in Charlesland does not really want to sell!!
4) Charlesland houses are are enormous
5) Charlesland houses are very well built
6) A Charlesland property is a better investment than any city centre property
7) Negitive equity is never possible in Charlesland

Tom123

Hammiepeters wrote: »

I dont need to wake up with a dismal outlook, Thank You. people like you and a few others on here have being talking doom and gloom almost since the inception of the so called celtic tiger. Now that things seem to have indeed stalled; you're having something of a field day. But whatever your views on the market as a whole; I resent people getting on here and running the place down. I equally resent doom and gloomers running the country down. Suggest that it is you who need to wake up to yourself and if you are lucky enough to live here; be thankful for it. Enoughsaid!!!!!!!!!!!!

Realistic would be a start

iguana

flight93 wrote: »

4) Charlesland houses are are enormous

I think a few people on here have admitted that their houses are too small to raise a family.

Hammiepeters

Yes Iguana the 2 beds are really only suitable with an infant maybe. Three beds are okay with two kids. No probs.
Flight and Tom; your idea of so called realism is a consensus of people who share your dismal outlook. Anyone who doesn't is constantly labelled delusional, cloud cuckoo, rose tinted, blah blah.
Again ; from a practical/personal point of view I dont really care if prices dip. What I do care about is that negative sentiment has allowed the moaning whingers grab the agenda for a time and the results will be obvious.
I mean, realistically what chance did values have? What with people selling in some cases for no other reason than panic. The number of 2 bed (12) for sale means that no matter what its a buyers market. They're all the same. But I would highly recommend living here and comparisons with city living are just stupid, not apples with apples. Want to make a comparison. What about Bray and which would you prefer?

ian_m

I second that Hammie.

iguana

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Yes Iguana the 2 beds are really only suitable with an infant maybe. Three beds are okay with two kids. No probs.

Are they big enough to have a playroom/second livingroom? I haven't seen any that size on myhome. I think a family house to suit a modern family needs 2 livingrooms and a kitchen-diner. Having a 2nd livingroom when the kids are small is wonderful as you have somewhere to attempt toy and mess containment.

But it is really comes into it's own when your 14 year old daughter brings her 16 year old boyfriend home to watch a movie with her. Do you really want to send her to the room on a separate floor which has a bed in it?

Sparks115

Ok everyone. The world and its mother knows that house prices are falling all our the country not just in Charlesland. I lived 2 years ago in a house in Drumcondra. I got sick of the city centre traffic - fed up with the noise - fed up with walking down the street waiting to be mugged and everything associated with city living and sold my house and moved to a 3 bed in Charlesland. I bought 2 years ago for €380k the same price as I sold the 2 bed house in Drumcondra. My house in Charlesland was just valued last week for €535k:D and a house in my old road in Drumcondra is valued at €480k so I hate to say it I think I am far better off. I live beside the sea, I live beside the beautiful Wicklow mountains, I live near a fab little village and I have the most lovely lovely neighbours, my son is going to have an amazing upbringing here and we are all healthy. So sod all the bregrudgers I have never been happier than I have been since I moved here. So what if the houses arent detached Georgian domains or that the estate doesnt have character ...the People have character, the people are nice and friendly and thats really whats more important than living in D4 where your too posh to say hello or living in Charlesland where people care about their next door neighbour and care about the area and care about a good community.

Let the prices fall people because believe me they will come back up and up up and up and up . Thats the way the property market works and has worked for years so lets all take a chill pill and be grateful we dont live in Rwanda or Darfur or the Gaza strip, lets get some perspective on this.