House prices in Charlesland.

Fiachra2

I should have clarified that point. A few people dont gain, notably those who are in negative equity(provided they want to move). They will unfortunately have to sit it out.

Investors also loose but investing in property is a business activity and in business you have to accept that you may loose as well as gain. This issue has become somewhat clouded by the phenomenon that many of the "investors" were ordinary joe soaps who-prior to the property bubble- would never have dreamed of investing in anything.

Another issue that may come into the spotlight will be the number of people who will enter or come near to negative equity because they "released equity" in there homes to clear other debts, buy cars, holidays etc.( For what its worth I believe that practice should have been illegal accept to finance investments in other long term assets.)

fishdog

Fiachra2, well said

jackal

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I should have clarified that point. A few people dont gain, notably those who are in negative equity(provided they want to move). They will unfortunately have to sit it out.

Investors also loose but investing in property is a business activity and in business you have to accept that you may loose as well as gain. This issue has become somewhat clouded by the phenomenon that many of the "investors" were ordinary joe soaps who-prior to the property bubble- would never have dreamed of investing in anything.

Another issue that may come into the spotlight will be the number of people who will enter or come near to negative equity because they "released equity" in there homes to clear other debts, buy cars, holidays etc.( For what its worth I believe that practice should have been illegal accept to finance investments in other long term assets.)

Fiacra, you are correct in what you say, it wont be nice for these people. However I doubt there will be much sympathy for them in the general public.

Bandwagon Investors, accidental millionaires etc. have been doing nothing but gloating and congratulating themselves for their amazing insight over the past few years, with their properties making huge gains. The smart ones, the ones that were not greedy or naiive have long sold their properties and made their money. Fair play to them, it was a risk and it paid off. For people who have not thought about selling their investment properties until the party was well and truly over, fair play to them also, you have to take the rough with the smooth... perhaps they should be a bit more careful with their money. People would probably take more time researching the purchase of a flat screen TV in those days than a house.

Equity releasers are absolute fools - unless they were putting the money into the house to increase its value. People who released equity to enjoy the champagne lifestyle they were told they should be experiencing due to how much money they had made deserve everything they get. They could have sold their property, bought a smaller one and blown the profits - risk free, debt free, but they wanted it all, and believed they could have it.

As for anyone else - i.e. Joe soap who bought a house in late 2006 and has seen the value of their gaff drop. Tough luck. If joe thought the house was worth €X00,000 a few months ago, I hope he doesn't come crying to the taxpayer or the government or anyone else if its not worth that now, nobody put a gun to their head and told them to buy. The media certainly didnt help, slavishly giving all the VI talking heads carte blanch to spin the message every time, but they have an agenda also - sell papers, sell advertising.

All in all, yes there will be good and bad points to a serious house price reduction, it just depends on your position. Any fool could have known that this was on the way though - what goes up...

SlinkyToo

I said all this 4 pages back.

Fiachra2

Jackal your real name isn't Thatcher by any chance?
( I jest)

Actually I totall agree that it was very irritating to listen to the self-styled "property invstors" talking authoritivly about what was little better than betting on horses with a good knowledge of the form. However that does mask some more serious and indeed tragic situations. I am an accountant and I occasionally am asked to give personal financial advice to people. My experience may not be representative but I have seen some awful situations such as people on very low incomes buying tiny cheap apartments in Bulgaria and not having the faintest idea what they were getting into.


Eircom shares is another classic. Half the country believed that for some reason, these shares were going to perform much better than any other shares they could buy on the open market.

You cant regulate for peoples craziness but I do believe that there has been some seriously "sharp practice" during the property boom which ought not to have been permitted.

However maybe Im getting a bit off topic here!

jackal

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Jackal your real name isn't Thatcher by any chance?
( I jest)

Actually I totall agree that it was very irritating to listen to the self-styled "property invstors" talking authoritivly about what was little better than betting on horses with a good knowledge of the form. However that does mask some more serious and indeed tragic situations. I am an accountant and I occasionally am asked to give personal financial advice to people. My experience may not be representative but I have seen some awful situations such as people on very low incomes buying tiny cheap apartments in Bulgaria and not having the faintest idea what they were getting into.


Eircom shares is another classic. Half the country believed that for some reason, these shares were going to perform much better than any other shares they could buy on the open market.

You cant regulate for peoples craziness but I do believe that there has been some seriously "sharp practice" during the property boom which ought not to have been permitted.

However maybe Im getting a bit off topic here!

Thatcher was a bit before my time. I remember more about her spitting image puppet than her policies.

Sharp practice by VIs - EA's, Auctioneers, Banks, Foreign property exibitions, etc has definitely played a part, due to that very irish practice of allowing groups of professionals with immense influence in very prosperous industries to "self regulate". However, I see nothing tragic in your example of a person who can ill afford it buying a bulgarian investment property. No doubt the pitch sounded too good to be true (and was). It's stupidity in action motivated by greed, compounded by sharp practice, hardly worthy of Shakespeare.

Fiachra2

Another interesting feature of the currnet situation is the calls by "leading" ecomomists-whos employers just happen to benefit from a lively property market-for a reform in stamp duty to "kickstart" the housing market.
God forbid they would call on the developers to lower their prices and let the market find an equilibrium.

Whats interesting is that they see no problem with leaving the responsbility for managing the market with the government rather than market forces. However if a left -winger were to suggest legislation to control rent and make it much more affordable than buying, thereby reducing the very irish panic about owning their home this would be decried as virtual communism and "state interference"

miju

have to 100% agree with you there Fiachra2. when the market was on the seemingly endless up and up they didn't give a rats ass about anybody "not on the ladder"

now in a falling market its out with the crocodile tears , begging basket and the woe is me attitude

SlinkyToo

I said this 5 pages back

Eoin

SlinkyToo wrote: »

I said this 5 pages back

SlinkyToo wrote: »

I said all this 4 pages back.

Can you bump your post count elsewhere please, this thread is long enough as it is.

SlinkyToo

You complained this thread was repetitive, I am pointing out that the issues raised on the last two pages have already been discussed by myself 4 and 5 pages back. Nothing to do with bumping post counts whatever that is.

FindingNemo

Not sure if this url has been posted before on this thread, but I find it very interesting. Not directly related to charlesland obviously but it's solid fact about house prices in general, I'm sure you can view it in excel and dig down a lower level to filter out Greystones to see the drops.

http://www.irishpropertywatch.com/

Eoin

FindingNemo wrote: »

Not sure if this url has been posted before on this thread, but I find it very interesting. Not directly related to charlesland obviously but it's solid fact about house prices in general, I'm sure you can view it in excel and dig down a lower level to filter out Greystones to see the drops.

http://www.irishpropertywatch.com/

I can't access that site at work, but from what I remember myhome.ie got quite precious about it, so they changed all the prices listed so they are images not plain text that can be read by an automated script.

http://www.myhome.ie/pictures/properties/6/7/2/340276//mh_rend_price.gif

FindingNemo

eoin_s wrote: »

I can't access that site at work, but from what I remember myhome.ie got quite precious about it, so they changed all the prices listed so they are images not plain text that can be read by an automated script.

http://www.myhome.ie/pictures/properties/6/7/2/340276//mh_rend_price.gif

You're right, they got very upset about it and wouldn't release anything in the format that irishpropertywatch needed it in and embedded text into pictures etc etc...
Daft though have agreed to work with them though and provide them with all the details they need. The website really shows though what a downturn the whole market is taking at the moment.

SlinkyToo

Thats some good stats. Thanks.

FindingNemo

SlinkyToo wrote: »

Thats some good stats. Thanks.

no worries,
and what people have to remember is, that these are just sale prices, not actually sold prices, expect to see the actual sold price even lower !

SlinkyToo

Very true. unfortunately the houses they have listed for Greystones are skanky. They would need to pay me to view them.

AC1

Two-bed with an attic conversion for €365,000 advertised on myhome.ie at the moment.

ian_m

There appears to be a bit of "I told you so attitude" from a alot of posts here. Which leads me to ask what do these people think will happen in January and the following months?

bido

Prices are going to drop further in the new year :eek::eek:

Bido;)

Hammiepeters

And so is economic growth, consumer confidence and job growth. Great! Isn't it? Well, isn't it? All those struggling FTBs that were the subject of so many earlier posts will be so much better off.
Well ;wont they?

future_plans

Well ;wont they?

Of course they will....... Now they'll have no houses and no jobs!!

DTinthegrove

AC1 wrote: »

Two-bed with an attic conversion for €365,000 advertised on myhome.ie at the moment.

Noticed that. Getting a bit more sensible, still more than 10 X average wage mind!!

If ya borrowed €335k, repayment is around €2,200 per month over 20 years. Thats around 37% of net salary if your earn €100k a year.

In my book, still too expensive!! Happy Christmas, here's to affordablity improving much more in 2008;)

fishdog

Prices are going to drop further in the new year

Yes, I believe they will continue to dop as they have been for a long time.

And so is economic growth, consumer confidence and job growth. Great! Isn't it? Well, isn't it?

That is a very gloomy outlook, were you not the one that kept telling us all how everything was great with the economy??

At least you know now admit that prices are dropping:D:D:D. I think there is still plenty of work there for everyone if they are prepared to do it. This may help change the attitude of many workers that let standards drop to very low standard. I saw alot of this myself in the construction industry. For all the talk of job losses in the construction industry the quality builders and tradesmen that I have talked to have all told me that they have more work on than ever.

All those struggling FTBs that were the subject of so many earlier posts will be so much better off.

I think so, yes. The average house price has dropped by €18K countrywide and by more than that in Greystones I would imagine. The stamp duty situation has also improved. I dont know anyone that cant find a job.

Hammiepeters

No Fish. Everything SHOULD be ok with the economy. But it isn't thanks to government interference and bungling indecisiveness in the property market. I think the FTBs will find a chicken and egg situation emerging. I.E. You cant have one without the other. In other words borrowing has become harder, rents have become higher and buyers more cautious.I don't see how you think that we are are in a better situation then we were a year ago. I don't see how the folk who were running around screaming about affordability and talking things down think that they have achieved anything positive. They havn't.

fishdog

Everything SHOULD be ok with the economy

There you go!

But it isn't thanks to government interference and bungling indecisiveness in the property market

I agree.

I don't see how you think that we are are in a better situation then we were a year ago

Price have dropped an average of €18K.
Economy is still strong and there is plenty of work still.

I don't see how the folk who were running around screaming about affordability and talking things down think that they have achieved anything positive. They havn't.

I dont see how folks trying to talk up a market that was clearly in decline have helped!

Hammiepeters

Well I suppose the difference it made was at one time people were buying houses to live in instead of paying high rents. Because they had confidence that the houses they were buying would appreciate in value. They accepted rising living costs even interest rate increases, because they believed that with a strengthening economy their' wages would also increase. In that same environment there always existed some who carried on about the ''spiralling'' costs and warnings of crashes,etc. Sure in scenario no. 1 some things become overvalued but I'd take it over the possible outcomes of the latter viewpoint.It's interesting that you see the marina as an impending disaster also to the point that you sold a house down there. I guess we'll just have to agree to differ and accept that we have different outlooks. The original question has been answered. The answer is clearly, Yes. I just refuse to believe that it is a good thing.

fishdog

Because they had confidence that the houses they were buying would appreciate in value.

That was clearly a mistake. The madness had to end somewhere. At some point people had to sit up and realise that they were not getting value for money. Besides banks simply could not give 70 year mortages!!

For most people they still owe less than their house is worth.

They accepted rising living costs even interest rate increases, because they believed that with a strengthening economy their' wages would also increase

They did not have a choice other than to accept! The only people with wage increases that are greater than inflation are ministers and Bertie (well in a year!). I dont know who else expected it, but good luck to them!

In that same environment there always existed some who carried on about the ''spiralling'' costs and warnings of crashes,etc.

I think they are few and far between, but I did see this:

And so is economic growth, consumer confidence and job growth. Great! Isn't it? Well, isn't it? All those struggling FTBs that were the subject of so many earlier posts will be so much better off.
Well ;wont they?

There is always one!!:D:D

It's interesting that you see the marina as an impending disaster

To tell you the truth the only issue I have about the marina is the design. I could live with the scale of it, the mess, etc. I just hate the design. I love good architecture, old and modern. Paris has great examples of both. The budget for the marina is massive, I just feel that they could have designed something special. I feel that what we will get there is going to be bland and ugly. Do you think that the design is special and fantastic looking??

bido

Prices still going down when they get to €320,000 will be temped to buy..:p

Bido:D

jenc

God have they really dropped that much?

Have you seen them at this price yet?