House prices in Charlesland.

fishdog

Thanks for your honesty Cathy. Best of luck selling your place!

mathie

CathD wrote:

Whilst much of the above is true, it's probably fair to say that given the age profile of the estate (3 years to less than 1 year old), and the house size of the majority of the estate (starter homes of 2 bed townhouses and apartments) that there will always be a reasonable proportion of the estate for sale at any one time as people outgrow the smaller houses and look to trade up? Is that because people don't like it? I would say not in the majority of cases. However, they are slow to sell, I should know, ours has been on the market for quite a while now! Sigh...

Snap! My mates 2-bed apartment has been up for months now.
Not even one viewer.
He's not best pleased.
M

fishdog

I keep hearing the same story. It seems that dropping the asking price is the only option, in the hope that this may get sevral people to bid against each other geetting the price closer to what you want to get. The problem is that there are so many properties that are identical for sale within such a small area and none seem to be selling.

gurramok

Delgany hit in housing crash, houses down 14% from 700k-595k, story in yesterdays paper.

woodser

Actually that article is not entirely true Churchfields which adjoins Delgany wood has smaller houses up to 150 sq ft .The houses in nearby Delgany wood are selling at 700k the prices €595k are for houses far smaller .Yes there is a drop if you divide the square footage into the price you find that there is a drop of 4% in the area not 13% as the article misleading tells us.Its like comparing 1250sq ft in charlesland for 525k for a 3 bed to 695k for a 3 bed in Eden Gate Wood for circa 700k but the 3 beds in Eden Gate are 1450 sq ft.

Hammiepeters

woodser wrote:

Actually that article is not entirely true Churchfields which adjoins Delgany wood has smaller houses up to 150 sq ft .The houses in nearby Delgany wood are selling at 700k the prices €595k are for houses far smaller .Yes there is a drop if you divide the square footage into the price you find that there is a drop of 4% in the area not 13% as the article misleading tells us.Its like comparing 1250sq ft in charlesland for 525k for a 3 bed to 695k for a 3 bed in Eden Gate Wood for circa 700k but the 3 beds in Eden Gate are 1450 sq ft.

You mean the newspapers beat up on a negative story about house prices? Nah! They would never do that.

fishdog

But the inportant point is that the price has dropped again!

Hammiepeters

fishdog wrote:

But the inportant point is that the price has dropped again!

The weird thing is that you think that this is a good thing. Annette Hughes was on the right hook last week. Her mantra is that confidence is everything in the market where property is concerned. Her other mantra is that affordability is probably better than ever. In fact Hooky said matter of factly that when he bought his house in Foxrock his mum couldnt believe that he would be able to afford £40 per month mortgage repayments. Like many people he just got on with it. Now the negative vibes being pushed on a near daily basis by the Irish Times et al have finally bitten to a point where the Govt. may revise mortgage relief reforms planned for December. The doon and gloomers may not only have halted property gains but the economy as well.

leaba

The weird thing is that you (Hammie) seem to think that confidence alone can hold up a market indefinitely.

As a direct consequence of the very factors that you talk about, open markets have cycles. I think you probably know this but I'm not really sure what difference you think adding your confidence to the market is going to make.

I own my home and I don't have any investment properties. I will hopefully always own my own home, and it will be more than likley in Ireland, so I'm not too pushed. I'll probably trade up at some stage, but would definitely not do it right now.

The value of the property I own and occupy does not do anything to make me a happier person.

Oh and to keep this somewhat on topic, I live on the Greystones side of Kilcoole!

Hammiepeters

leaba wrote:

The weird thing is that you (Hammie) seem to think that confidence alone can hold up a market indefinitely.

As a direct consequence of the very factors that you talk about, open markets have cycles. I think you probably know this but I'm not really sure what difference you think adding your confidence to the market is going to make.

I own my home and I don't have any investment properties. I will hopefully always own my own home, and it will be more than likley in Ireland, so I'm not too pushed. I'll probably trade up at some stage, but would definitely not do it right now.

Oh and to keep this somewhat on topic, I live on the Greystones side of Kilcoole!

But you would definitely not trade up right now even though the conditions to do so are ideal. This illustrates my point regarding confidence. One person as you say makes no difference, but a lot of people shooting off doom and gloom surely does.

fishdog

The weird thing is that you think that this is a good thing

That is not relevent. The fact is property prices are going down, not just according to the "Irish Times" but the ESRI and many others. This is happening right across the country even dare I say it in Charlesland. You may not like it, (and it does not suit me right now as it happens) but sure as hell prices are dropping and you can try to talk up the market to make people more confident all you like but it will not change sh!t.

jenc

Hey there,

I don't log in too often so was surprised to see all the replies to my question. I read the whole thread from start to finish and it was a great read and debate. As the fact's start to appear in the paper that prices are coming down those who were denying there was any sort of a property crash had to give some ground and admit that maybe the house they bought a year or two ago has lost some of it's value.

I actually posted in the first place because when I was looking to sell my house but my friend told me I'd never get the price I paid for it at the start. In the end he was right I had to drop my price to eventually get the sale agreed which I got Yesterday.

Jen.

fishdog

Well what do people think??? Have house prices in Charlesland really increased??

I know that most people that live in Charlesland seem to be very happy. But have Charlesland prices really increased in the last year???

Personally, I dont think so....

Hammiepeters

Think they have peaked and have stayed more or less where they were in January. Sales have almost totally stalled over the last month, when they should have picked up. Great news for landlords. Rents are increasing. Economy still strong enough, mass lay offs in the building trade after the hols didn't happen much to the dissappointment of some, interest rates are possibly going down, there. We have been talked into a fairly dangerous scenario and confidence has been badly damaged. however with the exception of the post above, I do not know of anyone in Charlesland who have actually lost money , short or medium term.It's interesting that David McWilliams has truly entered the frey. He had been one of the more upbeat commentators who appeared to revel in our country's success. However when you see the personal success attained by guys like Eddie Hobb with their negative mantras, it must be tempting for DMc to want the same. Can you rememeber on Rip Off Ireland how the groceries order was the bane of our lives? It's abolition has made us all so better off and primary producers are getting so much more from the supermarkets now. Arent they?

daraghm

The last few 2 beds houses have gone sale agreed at €390k, advertised at the 400-405k mark. We have ours up for sale and would happily take €390k. There are 11 or so on myhome, averaging 401-402k asking prices. I would say that that is 10-15k lower than this time last year. Ours is in the Wood, so we bought at the least expensive prices back in the day, so will have done well. Someone offered me €360k last week, then came back with a second offer of €361k... I ask you....

loyatemu

daraghm wrote:

The last few 2 beds houses have gone sale agreed at €390k, advertised at the 400-405k mark. We have ours up for sale and would happily take €390k. There are 11 or so on myhome, averaging 401-402k asking prices. I would say that that is 10-15k lower than this time last year. Ours is in the Wood, so we bought at the least expensive prices back in the day, so will have done well. Someone offered me €360k last week, then came back with a second offer of €361k... I ask you....

can't blame them - nothing is moving, if I was buying I'd be trying to drive as hard a bargain as possible. There must be 20 or more 2 beds for sale in Charlesland at the moment - one of them is probably desperate enough to accept a knock-down price....

Eoin

daraghm wrote:

The last few 2 beds houses have gone sale agreed at €390k, advertised at the 400-405k mark. We have ours up for sale and would happily take €390k. There are 11 or so on myhome, averaging 401-402k asking prices. I would say that that is 10-15k lower than this time last year.

You're pretty much bang on the money. We put our place on the market this time last year. 2 bed apartments were going for up to the 381k stamp duty ceiling, and 2 bed townhouses were on at 415K.

daraghm

loyatemu wrote:

can't blame them - nothing is moving, if I was buying I'd be trying to drive as hard a bargain as possible. There must be 20 or more 2 beds for sale in Charlesland at the moment - one of them is probably desperate enough to accept a knock-down price....

There are 12 2 bed townhouses for sale, I know as I am fully addicted to myhome, daft etc. watching prices, what's selling at what price as I try to set a realistic price for ours. They are going sale agreed at €390k. €360k is plain cheeky, but fair play to her for sticking in an obnoxiously low offer, at least we can tell people we have an offer, but below the asking price......

D.

future_plans

Somebody mentioned to me that there is a 2 bed going in the Park for 345k. Surely that is a bargain to be had!

daraghm

future_plans wrote:

Somebody mentioned to me that there is a 2 bed going in the Park for 345k. Surely that is a bargain to be had!

2 bed apartment.

iguana

daraghm wrote:

They are going sale agreed at €390k. €360k is plain cheeky, but fair play to her for sticking in an obnoxiously low offer,

How do you know what they have gone sale agreed for. All you know from Daft and Myhome is the asking price and that they are sale agreed. They could have gone sale agreed at any price at all.

And the offer you got was only 7.5% under the asking price. That is far from obnoxiously low. Consider the fact that €29k is a huge amount of money. Then consider how that huge amount of money is only 7.5% of what you are hoping to get for your property. Then consider what a phenomenal amount of money you are hoping to convince someone a 2-bed townhouse on an estate with 12 2-bed townhouses for sale is worth. And that they in turn need to convince their mortgage company it is worth.

Eoin

iguana wrote:

How do you know what they have gone sale agreed for. All you know from Daft and Myhome is the asking price and that they are sale agreed. They could have gone sale agreed at any price at all.

And the offer you got was only 7.5% under the asking price. That is far from obnoxiously low. Consider the fact that €29k is a huge amount of money. Then consider how that huge amount of money is only 7.5% of what you are hoping to get for your property. Then consider what a phenomenal amount of money you are hoping to convince someone a 2-bed townhouse on an estate with 12 2-bed townhouses for sale is worth. And that they in turn need to convince their mortgage company it is worth.

The chances are that he has spoken to a few local estate agents who know what the selling price has been for the same houses.

daraghm

iguana wrote:

How do you know what they have gone sale agreed for. All you know from Daft and Myhome is the asking price and that they are sale agreed. They could have gone sale agreed at any price at all.

My real estate agent sold them.

iguana wrote:

And the offer you got was only 7.5% under the asking price. That is far from obnoxiously low. Consider the fact that €29k is a huge amount of money. Then consider how that huge amount of money is only 7.5% of what you are hoping to get for your property. Then consider what a phenomenal amount of money you are hoping to convince someone a 2-bed townhouse on an estate with 12 2-bed townhouses for sale is worth. And that they in turn need to convince their mortgage company it is worth.

I take your point of view about value versus worth, but they are going sale agreed at €390k. So why would I accept €360k? Obnoxious was probably the wrong word, cheeky perhaps would have been better. Either way, s/he will not get it from me at that price!

jackal

Hammiepeters wrote:

Think they have peaked and have stayed more or less where they were in January. Sales have almost totally stalled over the last month, when they should have picked up. Great news for landlords. Rents are increasing. Economy still strong enough, mass lay offs in the building trade after the hols didn't happen much to the dissappointment of some, interest rates are possibly going down, there. We have been talked into a fairly dangerous scenario and confidence has been badly damaged. however with the exception of the post above, I do not know of anyone in Charlesland who have actually lost money , short or medium term.It's interesting that David McWilliams has truly entered the frey. He had been one of the more upbeat commentators who appeared to revel in our country's success. However when you see the personal success attained by guys like Eddie Hobb with their negative mantras, it must be tempting for DMc to want the same. Can you rememeber on Rip Off Ireland how the groceries order was the bane of our lives? It's abolition has made us all so better off and primary producers are getting so much more from the supermarkets now. Arent they?

Eh try "We have allowed this dangerous scenario to develop over the past decade as it suited the people with an interest in property, allowed developers to make millions, caused people who bought property 5-10 years ago to become accidental millionaires (on paper), all the time the government threw petrol on the fire, incentivising investment in residential property and we have now reached the point where people that dont already own property are completely priced out of the market. Those that do own property have made lots of paper money and dont want to give up their "hard earned" value."

A strong viable market should not be completely at the mercy of people talking it down, if the market in question makes sense economically, investors would still be flooding into the market - regardless of what the irish times has to say. The fact that professional investors would not touch irish property with a bargepole speaks volumes. Talking up the market has been going on for years, and gullible young people who make decisions based on what their parents say i.e. "Property never goes down" have been suckered into this for long enough.

It is 100% in the interest of potential first time buyers that house prices come down - the faster and the further the better, so not everyone shares your opinion on the "doom and gloom" brigade. I, as a renter think house price falls are a brilliant thing. Maybe someday I too will look at rent as "dead money", because I could be buying a house for the same price as I could be renting it.

fishdog

Very well said jackal.

As someone who has spent over 20 years woking in the construction industry I am appaled with the standard of workmanship on many houses including Charlesland. I have worked on sevral of them and I can see where so many corners have been cut. Even in the design and layout of appartments and houses it is clear that little thought has been given because they knew that they would sell anyway, so why bother???

Now with falling house prices developers have to put a bit more effort and though into the design. Already I can see an improvement in materials, finish, attitude and workmanship. Even appliences that come with properties is improving. For example many houses in Charlesland have " Gourment Pride " ovens. This is the cheapest rubbish money can buy, the rating of 1.5kW (lowest power on the market , standard is about 4.5) says it all!!

I am not trying to run Charlesland down, I know most people are very happy there. The fact is for the type of money that property is being sold for (including my own house) the standard of workmanship is very poor. It would not be accepted in most other countries in Europe.

Sparks115

Hi Fishdog, I dont know what part of Charlesland you worked on but I have to say the finish on my house was extremely good. My appliances are Zanussi and work perfectly the same as any other appliances I have used in other home. The only thing that wasnt good was the Gardens with the drainage and the crappy windows from Munster joinery that we had to get replaced. Before I moved here I had viewed a few houses in the Wicklow area and I have to say the standard was about the same in all of them. I would say across the board of the last few years developers havent built houses to the same standard as before but I can tell you I have been in some scary developments over the years and Charlesland is one of the better ones.;)

fishdog

My appliances are Zanussi and work perfectly

That is why I said

For example many houses in Charlesland have " Gourment Pride " ovens

and not all

My appliances are Zanussi and work perfectly

I would expect that from Zanussi, I agree they are good. I was just giving an example I came across recently in a ground floor appartment opposite the "Godfathers Pizza".

In the same appartment it was found that no damp course had been put in under the portch! Not just that but until 2 months ago they had hot water going to the toilets (this might explain the high gas bill).

I can tell you I have been in some scary developments over the years and Charlesland is one of the better ones.

I agree, I did not intend on singeling out Charlesland. My point is that for the money the standard should be far higher. The undeniable drop in property prices across the country (even Charlesland) will help bring the standards closer to where they should be.

Wineman

fishdog wrote:

Very well said jackal.


Even appliences that come with properties is improving. For example many houses in Charlesland have " Gourment Pride " ovens. This is the cheapest rubbish money can buy, the rating of 1.5kW (lowest power on the market , standard is about 4.5) says it all!!

Most of the appliances in my house are Gourmet Pride except the washing machine. Within the first year my fridge had to be replaced twice, my freezer was replaced and my washing machine broke down twice, second time out of warranty and cost €100 to repair. I complained to Durkans about the shoddy appliances being installed given the mammoth price tags on these houses, they were indifferent about the complaint. And yes the cookers are crap, you have to add an extra 10 minutes to most cooking times.

mikedragon32

fishdog wrote:

In the same appartment it was found that no damp course had been put in under the portch! Not just that but until 2 months ago they had hot water going to the toilets (this might explain the high gas bill).

The reason for the hot water in the loo is most likely the same reason we had hot water in the loo when we moved into our house. The first phase of the Wood was built without running water or mains electricity on site and the plumbers, as far as I could tell, just guessed which pipes were for hot or cold water and plumbed accordingly. You can imagine my surprise to see steam rising from the toilet bowl!!!! The builders rectified it immediately though.

Our appliances are Indesit, I think...

iguana

INCH wrote:

The only thing that wasnt good was the Gardens with the drainage and the crappy windows from Munster joinery that we had to get replaced.

Am I reading this right? Did you buy a new house and then have to replace the windows within a few years? Did the developer pay for it? That sounds like a much more serious issue than crappy appliances. Replacing an oven, hob, washing machine and diswasher is a lot easier and cheaper than replacing windows. And pretty inexcusable, the last flat I lived in was nearly 200 years old and had it's original windows.

Bad drainage in the garden also sounds more problematic than bad appliances. Then again I have two springer spaniels so my thougts are focused on the muckfest my house would be each day if my garden had bad drainage. The dogs would love it though.