House prices in Charlesland.

Hammiepeters

Sorry, I'm bored!. Jackal. You are assuming that investors who borrowed money and bought properties as an investment to rent out; did so, when the market was at it's peak. Not so. And therefore, the people who rent those properties are paying the mortgages on those properties, no? Slinky, I think you confirmed this. €1500 a month services a fair ammount of a loan taken out when Charlesland was built.
Don't quite get your counter point on stamp duty. My point was that the moment it's mentioned by the media, the prospect of reform that is, people entering the market will hold off to see where that reform is applied.
As for the rental glut. Not in Charlesland. I think they're still going to let fairly quickly. Any more ''salient points''?

Hammiepeters

And Fishdog, dont worry too much about the nuisance of viewings on 2 bed terraces. There are so many at the same price and they are all much the same so I doubt you'll get many viewings. Indeed some people I know aren't getting any. But trust me it doesn't really matter because they havn't anywhere to go to.

iguana

Hammiepeters wrote: »

But trust me it doesn't really matter because they havn't anywhere to go to.

But it does matter because they have to pay for advertising fees. Those are paid regardless of whether the house sells. Very few people are going to be willing to pay a couple of hundred euro for no reason.

Hammiepeters

iguana wrote: »

But it does matter because they have to pay for advertising fees. Those are paid regardless of whether the house sells. Very few people are going to be willing to pay a couple of hundred euro for no reason.

Silence....................................................................So why have they put up for sale, the house that they queued up to buy 3 years ago?. Panic, my friend, Panic. That, negative sentiment and lack of confidence.
Anyway. Amazing how this time last year, RTE News was reporting, ''great economy'' positive spin stories which were only tempered softly up until the May election and surprisingly(not)the electorate returned the FF Gov to power. I'm not anti FF by any stretch of the imagination(anti Dick Roche yes)but you get the impression that this crowd have become stale and lazy and will be kicked out next time. I hope the Nation recovers from its negative malaise before then but frankly I doubt it.

iguana

Hammiepeters wrote: »

Silence....................................................................So why have they put up for sale, the house that they queued up to buy 3 years ago?. Panic, my friend, Panic.

No, they bought 3 years ago out of panic. Now what they are experiencing is the cold water of realisation that they paid too much for a home that does not suit their needs. I'm sorry but the majority of houses in Charlesland, even the bigger ones just are not big enough for the needs of the average modern family. People bought them as a step on the ladder, not as an ultimate destination.

daraghm

iguana wrote: »

No, they bought 3 years ago out of panic. Now what they are experiencing is the cold water of realisation that they paid too much for a home that does not suit their needs. I'm sorry but the majority of houses in Charlesland, even the bigger ones just are not big enough for the needs of the average modern family. People bought them as a step on the ladder, not as an ultimate destination.

We didn't buy out of panic. We bought because we wanted to live close to Greystones where we grew up, and were browned off handing over money to a landlord in town, my mortgage repayments being only marginally higher than my rent. Our rent in town would have cost us over €36,000 over three years, the length of time we have owned in Charlesland.

I agree that the houses are small, but the vast majority of parents of my friends did the same, i.e. owned small first houses before moving up, as you say, a step on the ladder, not an ultimate destination, why should Charlesland be any different?

Hammiepeters

daraghm wrote: »

We didn't buy out of panic. We bought because we wanted to live close to Greystones where we grew up, and were browned off handing over money to a landlord in town, my mortgage repayments being only marginally higher than my rent. Our rent in town would have cost us over €36,000 over three years, the length of time we have owned in Charlesland.

I agree that the houses are small, but the vast majority of parents of my friends did the same, i.e. owned small first houses before moving up, as you say, a step on the ladder, not an ultimate destination, why should Charlesland be any different?

Exactly. And you will have accummalated an ammount of equity in 3 years with the increase in values that will stand you well if you had to locate further from the capital. Some of us just bought because Greystones is a nice place and will live in a smaller house here rather than a big house in someplace ugly.

iguana

I'm not saying that Greystones isn't a nice place, but the "property ladder" concept is a fairly new one in Ireland. Most people of our parents' generation bought their last house first - and only moved if their circumstances changed radically.

Hammie, the thing is people are finding that they don't have any equity from 3 years ago. They would have had if they sold in the 1st half of 2006 but they don't now. I nearly bought a house in 2004 in Dublin and I know of houses in the same area which are better value now than they were then and they still aren't selling. And that was a big house a 20 minute walk from Grafton St. People who have bought small houses in the last few years would be better off if they hadn't bought them. Now they are stuck in houses that are too small for their needs which they can't move out of. And they don't really have a lot of room to extend into either.

Hammiepeters

This thread has had 15,000 views and over 200 posts and so far no one has come forward and said that they are in negative equity in Charlesland. Houses in Charlesland are small yes, but we have to live somewhere. On release 3 bed houses were 330k-360k. I wont bother going any further with the maths on that one. Just to say thaty what started off as negativity in our society has become something a bit more scary in recent months and could contribute to the implosion of what was a healthy economy.

miju

slightly off topic. but hammie in all honesty this economy hasn't been healthy since about 2001.

what has had it appearing healthy is a one of construction boom and 2% emergency rates from the ECB.

Gurgle

miju wrote: »

slightly off topic. but hammie in all honesty this economy hasn't been healthy since about 2001.

what has had it appearing healthy is a one of construction boom and 2% emergency rates from the ECB.

Change the tune Muju, or at least look at the facts: http://www.cso.ie/statistics/empandunempilo.htm

> Employment in production peaked in 2001, and has fallen by all of 9% since then, or 3.5% over the last 10 years. Even now there are more people employed in production than in construction.

> 13.3% of workers are employed in construction, while the total number of people working here has grown by 40% in the last 10 years.

> There are more people working in the country now than the total labour force in 2001.

Hammiepeters

miju wrote: »

slightly off topic. but hammie in all honesty this economy hasn't been healthy since about 2001.

what has had it appearing healthy is a one of construction boom and 2% emergency rates from the ECB.

Oh I see!

fishdog

Dress this up any way you like, but house prices have fallen in Charlesland and are continuing to fall. Nothing is moving!! I have heard so many excuses it is unbelievable!! I find it hard to believe that people would go to the expense and trouble of putting their house on the market just to see what they would get if they wanted to sell rather than simply ask a buyer. Let’s suppose some people are that crazy, don’t expect me to believe that this applies to the majority of houses for sale all over Charlesland.

I see an estate agent has closed shop on the main street! I am sure this has nothing to do with the lack of sales either…..

so far no one has come forward and said that they are in negative equity in Charlesland

I will say that some people now are. If you took out a 100% mortgage and bought at the peak you would now be in a negitive equity situation. You have to factor stamp duty into the equation also.


I think house prices are just becoming more realistic, which is a good thing. I know Charlesland is a nice place to live but the houses are small, cheaply built, many corners were cut with the construction, the appliences are poor quailty. Is it suprising that people see property there as overpriced?? Of course this applies to many estates across the country.

How many people find them too small for a family home?? How many people have had leaks, boiler/heating problems, electrical problems, poor workmanship issues in general??

iguana

Hammiepeters wrote: »

This thread has had 15,000 views and over 200 posts and so far no one has come forward and said that they are in negative equity in Charlesland. Houses in Charlesland are small yes, but we have to live somewhere. On release 3 bed houses were 330k-360k. I wont bother going any further with the maths on that one.

DaraghM told us in September that he got an offer of €361k on his property and he has not told us he has had any higher offer since. The chances are the next offer will be lower, though for his sake I would like to be wrong. He has also now lost his ftb status. If he paid between €330-360k for his property he is in a worse position now than if he had continued renting for the last 3 years.

Hammiepeters

iguana wrote: »

DaraghM told us in September that he got an offer of €361k on his property and he has not told us he has had any higher offer since. The chances are the next offer will be lower, though for his sake I would like to be wrong. He has also now lost his ftb status. If he paid between €330-360k for his property he is in a worse position now than if he had continued renting for the last 3 years.

Sorry, you've lost me. Dara's property was what exactly and what did he pay for it? Like fishdog you are assuming that someone is in negative equity without any proof. And for the record my neighbours house sold today and I know he didn't give it away. Oh sorry I remember , Daras house is one of those 2 beds for 405k. There are about 20 on sale. Its not surprising smart a's are putting silly offers in. You need to put an attic room into them to sell at present. There are just too many of them. As for the estate agent gone titsup. Maybe there is a god.

Hammiepeters

fishdog wrote: »

Dress this up any way you like, but house prices have fallen in Charlesland and are continuing to fall. Nothing is moving!! I have heard so many excuses it is unbelievable!! I find it hard to believe that people would go to the expense and trouble of putting their house on the market just to see what they would get if they wanted to sell rather than simply ask a buyer. Let’s suppose some people are that crazy, don’t expect me to believe that this applies to the majority of houses for sale all over Charlesland.

I see an estate agent has closed shop on the main street! I am sure this has nothing to do with the lack of sales either…..



I will say that some people now are. If you took out a 100% mortgage and bought at the peak you would now be in a negitive equity situation. You have to factor stamp duty into the equation also.


I think house prices are just becoming more realistic, which is a good thing. I know Charlesland is a nice place to live but the houses are small, cheaply built, many corners were cut with the construction, the appliences are poor quailty. Is it suprising that people see property there as overpriced?? Of course this applies to many estates across the country.

How many people find them too small for a family home?? How many people have had leaks, boiler/heating problems, electrical problems, poor workmanship issues in general??

I would suggest that when you have viewings on your place fish, that you go out to the pub and leave a salesman to sell it for you. You are constantly talking the quality of your asset down. And again you are speculating that there are a load of people in the estate on 100% mortgages who bought at the peak. I don't think this true. If there are any of you out there in negative equity, please send us a post. There are some of us who want some proof to support their belief that the sky is falling down.

fishdog

Hammiepeters wrote: »

I would suggest that when you have viewings on your place

Viewings happen only when people turn up!! Therefore not a problem at present.

Hammiepeters wrote: »

leave a salesman to sell it for you

That is called an estate agent. This method has been employed for a while now without sucess. Any more helpful tips on selling?

Hammiepeters wrote: »

And again you are speculating that there are a load of people in the estate on 100% mortgages who bought at the peak

No, I have never suggested a load. I would suggest at least one.

Hammiepeters wrote: »

I don't think this true

Neither do I.

Hammiepeters wrote: »

what started off as negativity in our society has become something a bit more scary in recent months and could contribute to the implosion of what was a healthy economy.

If the strength of our economy is only dependent on us believing in it then it is truely doomed. For an economy to be strong it needs more than just a positive attitude. I am not an economist, I have been involved in the building industry full time for over 16 years. What I have seen is small cheaply built homes sold for outrageous prices that kept increasing. This simply could not go on forever. When people on a sallary €100k are stuggeling the madness has to end!!

Hammiepeters wrote: »

There are some of us who want some proof to support their belief that the sky is falling down.

This is a very alarmist remark! Are you not concerned about the damage you could do to the economy with this outburst???:D:D:D

The sky is not falling down. The property market is not going to crash. Prices are just becoming more realistic. They will drop alot more and then level out and find its feet again.

As for proof, read the newspapers, listen to the news. Do what I have been doing, talk to people in the industry, mortgage brokers, estate agents, developers, builders etc. They all tell the same story, most openly a few privatley.

Wineman

fishdog wrote: »

How many people find them too small for a family home?? How many people have had leaks, boiler/heating problems, electrical problems, poor workmanship issues in general??

I have lived here for 2 years with my wife and 2 kids and we are perfectly happy with the size of our 3 bed house and feel it meets all of our requirements, as for the other issues I would imagine you would encounter some of them in any house, they are not problems unique to Charlesland.

fishdog

I have lived here for 2 years with my wife and 2 kids and we are perfectly happy with the size of our 3 bed house and feel it meets all of our requirements, as for the other issues I would imagine you would encounter some of them in any house, they are not problems unique to Charlesland.

I am glad that you like it. I am delighted if you find that you have plenty of space. I just have 1 child and she tends to fill our house with all of her stuff!!

As I have pointed out in this thread:

1) Poor building standards are not unique to Charlesland. Standards have dropped across the country. However this thread is about house pices in Charlesland and therefore factors that influence them.

2) Most people that live in Charlesland like it.

miju

Gurgle wrote: »

Change the tune Muju, or at least look at the facts: http://www.cso.ie/statistics/empandunempilo.htm

you missed my point and i still stand by it. my point being that the growth in construction employment has masked / somewhat compensated for the 9% fall off in construction since 2001.

of course with the CIF saying there will only be approx 33,000 completions in 2008 i'm sure you can imagine the ramifications for employment here both in construction and subsidary industries such as retail and production.

which was my point in the first place. the economy appeared healthy but now with things going tits up in the housing market the "rot" behind the economy will be apparent to all

bren2002

Hi All

I've been reading this thread now for a long time and also looking at the price of houses in Charlesland on Daft & MyHome. The first thing I should say is that I don't live in Charlesland but I am from Greystones.

I know house prices have dropped all over Dublin, an area that I am interested in. I've been watching this for about 18 months now. From doing a bit of research it seems to me that house prices in Charlesland are now 1 maybe 2 decent price reductions off their launch price in 2004 probably at 2005 levels and that makes me suspect that many people are already in negative territory.

The price of a 2 bed townhouse in 2004 was €300,000 (1), obviously this is the starting price and some will have been more expensive. A 2 bed townhouse in Charlesland is now €365,000 (2). Whether people are willing to admit it or not, that is now the price of a 2 bed townhouse. The price of a house is only what someone is willing to pay for it. If you ever counted the price of your house as the last price a similar one sold for on the way up, you have to accept that is the price on the way down.

(1) http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/property/2004/1007/1096684862914.htm
(2) http://www.daft.ie/1321831

daraghm

Hammiepeters wrote: »

There are about 20 on sale.

I think it's 12 mate, 12. But I'm not obsessive...............

D.

iguana

bren2002 wrote: »

Whether people are willing to admit it or not, that is now the price of a 2 bed townhouse. The price of a house is only what someone is willing to pay for it. If you ever counted the price of your house as the last price a similar one sold for on the way up, you have to accept that is the price on the way down.

It's even stricter than that at the moment, a house is only worth what a mortgage company is willing to lend you for it. I've seen at least a half dozen internet threads in the last few months where people have agreed a price on a property only to find that their mortgage valuation survey says the house is not worth the agreed price.

fishdog

The price of a 2 bed townhouse in 2004 was €300,000 (1), obviously this is the starting price and some will have been more expensive. A 2 bed townhouse in Charlesland is now €365,000 (2). Whether people are willing to admit it or not, that is now the price of a 2 bed townhouse

That make sense to me, but there are people that post here who think the only way you could get this information by having you 2 bed townhouse on the market!!!

Hammiepeters

And there are people who post here who will not listen to anything that contradicts their dismal outlook on everything from property value, house quality, the marina......

fishdog

there are people who post here who will not listen to anything that contradicts their dismal outlook

I know. It is all over the papers, on the news, prices are going down!!! Open your eyes!! Dozens of homes for sale in Charlesland and little of it moving, yet you are still in la la land talking the market up!!! This had to happen. Prices could not keep going up for ever. Now that house prices are now becoming more realistic more people can afford to own their own home.

miju

iguana wrote: »

It's even stricter than that at the moment, a house is only worth what a mortgage company is willing to lend you for it. I've seen at least a half dozen internet threads in the last few months where people have agreed a price on a property only to find that their mortgage valuation survey says the house is not worth the agreed price.

indeed have seen similiar myself. one such example

Hammiepeters

And yet the 100k a year poor FTBs that you seem to relentlessly carry on about are not buying? A story in the indo today again reports a growing desire for stamp duty reform in the budget. Guess what for? To kick start the property market and obviously push prices up again. I relly dont care from a personal point of view whether they go up or down. I'm not moving. I just believe that your constant whinging about true value and quality is of no use to anyone(inc. you) selling in the estate.

fishdog

Hammiepeters: I think prices have been dropping and still are. You think they have not dropped and will not drop (I think?). I think that a downward adjustment is a good thing, you don’t. We have different ideas about what is a good standard of work and what is value for money.Let’s not fall out over it, life is too short!!:D:D

I do agree with you on some of your points (believe it or not!!)

Perhaps stamp duty refom will drive prices back up a bit, I doubt it but time will tell.

SlinkyToo

Well this weekend we viewed a Bungalow in Kilcoole and they wanted 495k for it. I pointed out to the Estate Agent that I could buy new house in Holywell for the same price (and that is the show house including everything). She agreed and told us the last offer they had on the house was 450k six months ago.

Having come out of the UK market the comparisons are so obvious.

Estate Agents giving people ridiculous valuations for houses, and pyschologically people will not move from these values. Agents not being proactive.

Sellers who have no clue about dressing their home for sale. I wont go into specifics, but at least a bit of tidy up might help prospective buyers view whats on offer.

Houses that have been on sale for a year or more and yet the sellers do nothing.

In the UK if your house has not had at least one viewing a day for the first 2 weeks, it is overvalued and under marketed by your agent.

You should dump them immediately and go to the next one demand a lower commission. Agents are in no position to argue with you now.

If you are really serious about selling and not just following the herd by putting a sign up. Then follow these tips -

1. Be realistic. Yes its painful to drop your price but taking your medicine now will allow you to move on with your life and not be stuck in limbo.

2. Give no quarter to the Agents. Demand to know their strategy for marketing your property and set deadlines for results. It has never been right for an agent to simply stick a sign up and a picture in their window.

3. If you are coming on to the market, do not put a sign up, organise an openday. This will generate a buzz about your property and with the right price produce an offer on the day. There is nothing better than competing couples on an open day.

4. Clean the house. 99% of buyers cant look past kids toys strewn everywhere even though it has no bearing on the structure of the building.

5. Do not rely on the agent to show people around, do it yourself. If an agent has 13 properties on the market at the same price, will they really be enthused showing a buyer your property? No. But you will.

6. Point out those things you love about the house and the area. Talk about the transport, the supermarket, the gym, the great people.

7. On a cold day, put on the heating, make some coffee, the smell and the heat will make it cosy.

8. Remember Greystones is a place people REALLY want to live, so you are starting with an edge.

Having spent years in the UK property developing, buying and selling professionally, these tips work and they work fast.

However, if you can't get past point 1, you are stalled at the starting line. And I think deep down most people know this.