29x12 - The Sound of Drums [SPOILERS]

Mr E

What a fun episode! Loads of action, good humour (the extended death of the Mirror journalist... heh!), and a brilliant "what the hell are they going to do now?" cliffhanger ending...

This show has hit its stride in the second half of this season... Roll on the finale next week!

Sky+ cut out before the preview, does next week look any good?

ixoy

Didn't much care for this one - felt it was a bit of a poor plotted, odd-paced mess.

The flow of the story didn't gel for me this week as we seemed to rush through scenes in an effort to cram in all of the ideas and concepts that RTD should have let spread over multiple episodes. For example, the sky base could have been covered easily before now instead of ramming it in. We should have seen more of the drums before now and the telephones.

Additionally, there didn't always seem to be a great sense of logic flowing through here. For example, when the Master tells the Doctor to "run!", they all start running - where?! They didn't have a plan but yet somehow still ended up in a warehouse with a working laptop and the right tech to great a perception filter key.
Or take Saxon executing his cabinet - what was the point of that? To show how evil he was? Yet there was no reprecussions or fall out for it - no reason.
And the drums - what was that about? Or are we going to find out? Because right now there's no reason for him to have heard the drumbeat.
And why age the Doctor? He can regenerate. What's the threat, the reason? Why not hold him in a binding field if you want to disable him or something else? Instead it seems the only reason is to tie in "The Lazarus Effect" into this so-called 'plan'.
The aliens didn't have enough menace to them with their singsong childish voices - maybe that was part of the idea but I didn't feel the evil.
And the end - where was Martha going? Had she a plan?
As for Gallifrey, the young Master, and staring into time? *shudder* Never any mention of that before that I can recall. Interesting concept in some ways but the kid looked like he was in a tracksuit top and felt entirely out of place with the formal dress-ware we've seen in the Capitol.

On the positive side, the Master was fun to watch. Completely over the top but that's pretty authentic to the original series - watch Delgado or Ainley's performances in the previous seasons as proof of that. The conversation between the Master and the Doctor was pretty good too and the Doctor wanting to save the Master is in character (even if he should know better by now).

I don't know, just didn't work for me. It didn't seem well planned or structured and shows up when held against genuinely good example of scripts that we found in the "Human Nature" 2-parter or "Blink". Far too much running around (as usual with an RTD script - plus the obligatory explosion too). Maybe next week will work better but for now, I really wish RTD would let someone else at the finale.

ixoy

Let's merge this thread with my far less positive one Mr. Supreme Mod.

Oh and it's "The Sound of Drums" although your title makes equal sense for the episode.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

I found this episode quite disappointing, mostly for the reasons ixoy has mentioned. I was really hopeful at the beginning of the episode that more of the 'Torchwood' entourage would have appeared in the episode and as soon as the master revealed that they weren't even in the Country, I was extremely annoyed. I hope the finale next week is as good as episodes such as 'Blink', which IMO has been the best episode of the series so far.

BuffyBot

Agreed with the pacing comments, and that RTD tried to fit too much stuff into the one episode.

It wasn't bad, but it certainly has flaws.

Kwekubo

I really liked John Simm in this. But I think I'm with you in that this would have been so much better if we'd been drip fed some of this for a little while. Like the watch in Utopia; when I saw that all the cogs started whirling around in my head and I was hooked...

Has anyone else found themself unconsciousy tapping? And did anyone else think Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when the Doctor mentioned the TARDIS was now a "paradox machine"?

monkeyfudge

Yep... a little bit of a patchy episode.

I did love all the dialogue between The Doctor and The Master about the time war... it really conjured up some powerful imagery. It was also nice to see Galifrey as well... and we believe we also got our first mention of Unit since the new series began.

The music really stood out for me in this episode as well... there was some great stuff in there and the drums worked really well too.

As for what's going on.... I'd guess that

the orbs are all the people who were sent off in the rocket to the Utopia project.

ixoy

monkeyfudge wrote:

and we believe we also got our first mention of Unit since the new series began.

Could be wrong but I thought we heard them mentioned in "School Reunion"? It's interesting that it's got an American angle now when formerly it always was primarily British (even if it had its HQ in Geneva).

We did get to see Brigadier Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart in a photo in the "Sarah Jane Adventures" Christmas special (have to be careful not to call it the pilot...).

Other than that though, UNIT references have been scant and I'm not sure why - copyright reasons maybe? UNIT could easily have substituted for Torchwood by expanding some of its original role. Not sure why RTD relegated UNIT in the new show given its high prominence in the original series.

BuffyBot

UNIT appeared in Aliens of London/World War Three and I think they got a mention in The Christmas Invasion

popebenny16

I love episodes like these, mainly because of all the rubbish on the net in the run up to them.... which is why I hardly ever post them.

Anyway.

For example, when the Master tells the Doctor to "run!", they all start running - where?!

To the chipper for the fish and chips.

Or take Saxon executing his cabinet - what was the point of that? To show how evil he was? Yet there was no reprecussions or fall out for it - no reason.

Well, it fits in with the general story arc of the Master now being simply insane (he gives the thumbs up when he's called it) and hating the Doctor more than anything else... the entire thing is a trap to get the Doc "What this country needs is a Doctor..." And as for repercussions there are none, sure the world is ending the next morning.

As for Gallifrey, the young Master, and staring into time? *shudder* Never any mention of that before that I can recall. Interesting concept in some ways but the kid looked like he was in a tracksuit top and felt entirely out of place with the formal dress-ware we've seen in the Capitol.

I thought it was a Sandman Uniform from Logan's Run...... but yes, stupid concept altogether. And... how does that explain all the other nutters...Omega and Morbius......

And did anyone else think Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when the Doctor mentioned the TARDIS was now a "paradox machine"?

Not as much as when he was ripping off the "Somebody Else's Problem" field with the tardis keys!!!

There has been loads of mentions of UNIT, here and there, over the past couple of years so they've always been in the background, and that 1968 treaty has been mentioned before (yonks back) so RTD is doing his homework anyway.

Overall, a good fun-filled runaround ep, its nowhere near good enough to be a final story though. Aging the Doctor is stupid, for sure, and Martha was dammed lucky not to be shot by one of those aliens as she walked in the MIDDLE OF A FIELD!!!! as millions of them flew over her head.

Loved John Simm, and I hope that the title of next weeks fun feast "Last of the Timelords" dosnt mean that its bye bye Master.

Oh, and RTD says that even MORE blasts from the past are back next year.

popebenny16

ixoy wrote:

Let's merge this thread with my far less positive one Mr. Supreme Mod.

Oh and it's "The Sound of Drums" although your title makes equal sense for the episode.

Done. I'm usually away weekends lol.

Goodshape

I liked it.

Not great, but plenty good fun.

ixoy

popebenny16 wrote:

Martha was dammed lucky not to be shot by one of those aliens as she walked in the MIDDLE OF A FIELD!!!! as millions of them flew over her head.

As was pointed out to me, she was wearing the perception filter key so they probably couldn't see her.

Loved John Simm, and I hope that the title of next weeks fun feast "Last of the Timelords" dosnt mean that its bye bye Master.

Although I might have liked to see a more serious Master, I can't really find issue with Simms - the Master's campness, past and present, makes Graham Norton seem like Clint Eastwood at times

Oh, and RTD says that even MORE blasts from the past are back next year.

I'm betting we'll see more of UNIT. Enough mentions of them dropped, and if something big is coming then we'll need a task force of some sort to help us out.
As for aliens, I reckon the Silurians or Sea Devils will come back. We'll see.

monkeyfudge

I liked how The Master was fascinated with The Teletubies....

I remember years ago him being intrigued by The Clangers.

Stark

I wonder how many hours the Doctor and his companions spend in the TARDIS gym training for all these running scenes.

Gavin W

ixoy wrote:

They didn't have a plan but yet somehow still ended up in a warehouse with a working laptop and the right tech to great a perception filter key.

I think the laptop was Jack's (maybe he had it in his backpack?). A lot of people seem to be under the impression that the Doctor is making the keys in that scene, but actually he's taking the existing TARDIS keys (which already have some degree of perception filter on them) and boosting their power.

Or take Saxon executing his cabinet - what was the point of that? To show how evil he was? Yet there was no reprecussions or fall out for it - no reason.

I think that was the idea, yeah. Saxon is as mad as a box of frogs and was just killing them for the hell of it. He has no interest in government business as the world is going to end the next morning. There's also a line from the journalist about how the cabinet has "gone into seclusion", so perhaps nobody even knows they're dead yet.

And why age the Doctor? He can regenerate. What's the threat, the reason? Why not hold him in a binding field if you want to disable him or something else? Instead it seems the only reason is to tie in "The Lazarus Effect" into this so-called 'plan'.

To humiliate and weaken him I presume. It might tie in to the fact that the Master was living as an old man in the form of Professor Yana, remember his line about "If the Doctor can be young and strong then so shall I..."? Maybe he's deliberately reversing their positions.

As for Gallifrey, the young Master, and staring into time? *shudder* Never any mention of that before that I can recall. Interesting concept in some ways but the kid looked like he was in a tracksuit top and felt entirely out of place with the formal dress-ware we've seen in the Capitol.

His costume was actually an exact reproduction of the outfits worn by the Time Lords who put the Doctor on trial in "The War Games". And did anyone else think he was chosen for the role because he looked like a young Roger Delgado?:D

ixoy

Gavin W wrote:

I think that was the idea, yeah. Saxon is as mad as a box of frogs and was just killing them for the hell of it. He has no interest in government business as the world is going to end the next morning. There's also a line from the journalist about how the cabinet has "gone into seclusion", so perhaps nobody even knows they're dead yet.

P'raps, but we're meant to believe he'd just leave the bodies there? This was a perfect opportunity to re-introduce the TCE and shrink them all to dolls. It'd still enable him to be nuts and then easily cover up his crime. Plus a nod to the old show!

His costume was actually an exact reproduction of the outfits worn by the Time Lords who put the Doctor on trial in "The War Games". And did anyone else think he was chosen for the role because he looked like a young Roger Delgado?:D

The kids? I've only ever seen clips of it ages ago but I know they went through a complete redesign for "The Deadly Assassin" (which is the one we saw the Time Lord wearing). Was the original one-time-only look that the kid was wearing from "The War Games"? If so, then the stlye clash is just a fan joke, although that's fair enough in its own right.

Couple of other nice touches:
* The Doctor claiming the Master had a hypnotic effect. I'd love to have seen Simms going "I am the Master, you will obey me"
* The Master offering jelly babies Some people read that as a hint about the future, but I read that just solely as a cheeky two fingers by the Master to the Doctor's forth incarnation.

Gavin W

ixoy wrote:

The kids? I've only ever seen clips of it ages ago but I know they went through a complete redesign for "The Deadly Assassin" (which is the one we saw the Time Lord wearing). Was the original one-time-only look that the kid was wearing from "The War Games"? If so, then the stlye clash is just a fan joke, although that's fair enough in its own right.

The original Time Lords:



In comparison to "young Roger":



Don't really see it as a clash myself. We've often seen a variety of costumes on Gallifrey and it would look sillier if he was wearing a miniature version of the other Time Lords' outfits, complete with high collar. It'd be like a schoolboy wearing a headmaster's gown and mortar.

Maybe they get the more elaborate uniforms as they ascend the ranks. Though as someone pointed out on another forum, that means that Patrick Troughton's Doctor was put on trial by a bunch of students. What an undignified ending!:p

ixoy wrote:

Couple of other nice touches:
* The Doctor claiming the Master had a hypnotic effect. I'd love to have seen Simms going "I am the Master, you will obey me"

Though we did get him nearly quoting himself in Logopolis by saying "People of Earth, please attend carefully...". I was disappointed he didn't follow it up with "...the message that follows is vital to the future of you all!".

ixoy

Gavin W wrote:

Don't really see it as a clash myself. We've often seen a variety of costumes on Gallifrey and it would look sillier if he was wearing a miniature version of the other Time Lords' outfits, complete with high collar. It'd be like a schoolboy wearing headmaster's robes.

I get your point, I just saw a "tracksuit" when I saw it first and the image stuck.
As to staring into time - not sure how I feel about the idea. I don't believe it contradicts anything from the show but I like to think that the Master went mad a bit later than childhood and that he and the Doctor were firm pals for a while. I also want to him call the Doctor "Theta" if we're going to be slinging around fan material

Maybe they get the more elaborate uniforms as they ascend the ranks. Though as someone pointed out on another forum, that means that Patrick Troughton's Doctor was put on trial by a bunch of students. What an undignified ending!:p

Maybe they took offence to his somewhat.. tramp-like outfit and decided not to bother putting on their ceremonial robes for him as he wouldn't appreciate the pomp.
I do like the fact that they kept the outfits right for the older crowd and that it didn't look too silly all these decades later...

Actually, I want Bessie back next year, along with UNIT. It's not that I necessarily went to re-create Seasons 7 & 8, but they're iconic moments that deserve a little revisiting (especially since it was then the Master got reintroduced).

But c'mon Gavin - the Tissue Compression Eliminator is something we must have!

popebenny16

Gavins pic came up as an X so in case its doing that for you here is the pic:


Shot at 2007-06-26

thelordofcheese

the one thing i'm wondering about, and hasn't been asked here, unless i've gone blind, is who are the Toclafane?

I don't they are just throw away BBEG's of the week, seeing as the master told the doctor " if I truly told you (who they are), your hearts would break."

but i enjoyed the episode, and i like where it's leading.

roll on next week!

popebenny16

God knows - I certainly don't. There are loads of ideas floating but timelord's or timelord children and/or Dalek/Doctor hybrids and/or mini Daleks and/or whatever your having yourself have all been mentioned.

I started reading one thread on this on digital spy during lunch yesterday and after about 5 posts my head was spinning, it was awful and we have our own mock thread in its honour. Sadly, though, the posts over there are either blatant windups (good) or stuff posters believe (nooooot so good).

As some of you may know, mine was the third attempt to get a Doctor Who forum (must remember to ask the lads to rename it Doctor Who/Torchwood in time for January) previous attempts were shot down on grounds such as it wouldn't be that busy a topic - which its why we're in the hosted section.

Looking at the sheer lunacy you have to endure reading other Who forums I'm glad in a way that we are, on the whole, fairly quiet but level headed and a fairly rational bunch and I have to say a pleasure to moderate.

As for the tockys my money is on something timelordy - maybe the master went back and stole an orphanage and turned all the kids into these yokes.

Oh, and as we're talking about things no-one has talked about yet (!) what about Lucy Saxon's little dance as the master played that feckin tune - classic.

monkeyfudge

thelordofcheese wrote:

the one thing i'm wondering about, and hasn't been asked here, unless i've gone blind, is who are the Toclafane?

I don't they are just throw away BBEG's of the week, seeing as the master told the doctor " if I truly told you (who they are), your hearts would break."

but i enjoyed the episode, and i like where it's leading.

roll on next week!

Well I gave my opinion in spoiler tags... but seeing as it's just an opinion I guess we can forget about the tags.

I reckon they are all the people who were sent to the Utopia project on the rocket ship. Becoming the Toclafane must have been the only way to survive the end of the universe.

Stark

It would make sense. Only way I can see of tying in the "Utopia" episode to everything else.

popebenny16

ah... 600th post....

this is the sort of stuff that leave the old noggin spinnin:

Also. What goes Toc? a clock. What does a clock keep? TIME.what is lain french? THE. what isfane
in french?.LORD re-arrange that and you get..

spoiler:

---

THE TIME LORD

---

Gavin W

monkeyfudge wrote:

I reckon they are all the people who were sent to the Utopia project on the rocket ship. Becoming the Toclafane must have been the only way to survive the end of the universe.

That would fit with the idea of a "paradox machine" as they would be killing their own ancestors. I think the Toclafane are either them or they're the Time Lord children who looked into the vortex and went mad. There definitely seems to be some kind of child aspect to them, what with their voices and personalities, as well as the Master saying "Down you go kids!" as they descended onto the Earth.

The other prominent idea going around is that they're the humans from the parallel Earth, and that it would "break the Doctor's hearts" because one of them is Rose, but I think that's just daft and completely contrary to the spirit of the series.

There was a bit of a possible spoiler on the commentary when

Gugu Mbatha-Raw (Tish) said they're scary because they don't have any human facial features. Trevor Laird (Dad) then mutters "Well they do, well..." and after a pause Freema interjects with "Well...!" and they quickly move on.

Gavin W

ixoy wrote:

Actually, I want Bessie back next year, along with UNIT. It's not that I necessarily went to re-create Seasons 7 & 8, but they're iconic moments that deserve a little revisiting (especially since it was then the Master got reintroduced).

Next year is the 40th anniversary of UNIT and the Brigadier so hopefully they'll do something for that. I'd love to see Nick Courtney back one last time, going out in a blaze of glory.

ixoy wrote:

But c'mon Gavin - the Tissue Compression Eliminator is something we must have!

Oh definitely, I'm hoping that "shrink to doll size" is one of the settings on his new laser screwdriver.

ixoy

Gavin W wrote:

Next year is the 40th anniversary of UNIT and the Brigadier so hopefully they'll do something for that. I'd love to see Nick Courtney back one last time, going out in a blaze of glory.

I can see a perfect way for him to do it too - we'd have a sequel to "Blink". The Brigadier would drive up in Bessie, with the Doctor and his men behind him. He'd point at one of the stone angels and go "Chap with the wings there, five rounds rapid". It must be done!

Gavin W

Gavin W wrote:

I think the laptop was Jack's (maybe he had it in his backpack?).

Just watched a bit of it again today and realised that the laptop is Martha's. The Doctor grabs it as they run from her flat to escape the explosion.

Unpossible

Can someone tell me why Jack had enough time to give his teleporter to martha and have an argument with her about using it, but not enough time to just grab her or the doctor and just teleport out of there? At the very least he should have gone himself, I mean martha is (imo) the most useless out of the three. At least on earth jack can try and contact elements of torchwood. Unless of course he just wanted her out of the way and plans to do something on board.

thelordofcheese

Unpossible wrote:

Can someone tell me why Jack had enough time to give his teleporter to martha and have an argument with her about using it, but not enough time to just grab her or the doctor and just teleport out of there? At the very least he should have gone himself, I mean martha is (imo) the most useless out of the three. At least on earth jack can try and contact elements of torchwood. Unless of course he just wanted her out of the way and plans to do something on board.

I'd imagine the doctor is a time lord who can regenerate, Jack can't die, and martha is very fragile.

The same reason the doctor sent Rose back to her time at the end of the first season, to try and keep her outta harms way. Admittidly, it's not the best of plans, seeing as the Toclafane are busy having a merry old slaughter, but it's better than being stuck on a helicarrier with the master

Unpossible

But why couldn't two or three of them get out? The master did not seem all too pushed about stopping them.

thelordofcheese

Well, the doctor was up by the master who was busy having a hard on for destroying the world, and jack was still pretty fvcked from the laser screwdriver.

Also, wasn't martha still wearing the key so she'd still have the effects of it applied to her. While people could probably see her, they'd not want to see her and not alot of attention had been drawn to her, like say, being shot or aged 100 years.

*shrug*

does it really matter though?

Unpossible

Well the master told us the keys did not effect him, but I guess you are right, it will not matter in the end they have something planned for the doctor and jack on the ship. I still think martha is the most useless out of the three and I can't see how she will be able to help them, but I agree the point of sending her was just to get her out of the way.