Is the French method of Parenting cruel?

mental07

shrapnel222 wrote:

Sign of the modern era, and certainly not specific to France. 2 parents working and children in school. it's the same all over the world. at least in France with the 35 hour week, it means they get from 6 weeks to 10 weeks off a year on holiday to spend with their kids.

True enough. It was really the length of the school day I was getting at, though. This is from the age of THREE. Ouch.

mental07

shrapnel222 wrote:

Universities in France are also very good and free.

The current French administration doesn't seem to think so. The drop-out rates are horrendous. All you need is to pass your Bac, and you're in. There's many cases of students registering just so they can get student benefits, and they don't even go to one lecture all year. Plus, a lot of the buildings themselves are shabby and according to one French magazine I read last week, the staff are ashamed to welcome foreign visitors.

Legislation to make universities more autonomous is set to go before Parliament pretty soon...cue some famous student demonstrations.

shrapnel222

mental07 wrote:

The current French administration doesn't seem to think so. The drop-out rates are horrendous. All you need is to pass your Bac, and you're in. There's many cases of students registering just so they can get student benefits, and they don't even go to one lecture all year. Plus, a lot of the buildings themselves are shabby and according to one French magazine I read last week, the staff are ashamed to welcome foreign visitors.

Legislation to make universities more autonomous is set to go before Parliament pretty soon...cue some famous student demonstrations.

it doesn't change the fact the level is quite high. I went to a french university. In the first year, we were 2000 registered. by the end of the first year about half had dropped out. they encourage people to leave by giving shed loads of work and no strictness so that kids with no self discipline give up easily. The first year is the biggest cull but every year after that you get about a 30% drop out rate. It is pretty horrendous the way they talk to you i have to say. I did a masters in chemistry and in our masters year they were still telling us over 60% of us wouldn't get jobs. France is an incredibly ****ty ellitist society, well reflected through their 3rd level education and to be fair i couldn't wait to leave.

nesf

shrapnel222 wrote:

In the first year, we were 2000 registered. by the end of the first year about half had dropped out. they encourage people to leave by giving shed loads of work and no strictness so that kids with no self discipline give up easily.

They do similar things in some courses in this country. Specifically in my experience, philosophy and physics. The idea is to cull those in first year who won't be able to complete the degree (from a difficulty point of view rather than sheer workload). It's pretty fair really, if you can get past first year with an honour you'll probably do ok and if you fail (and actually did put the effort in) then you should probably try a different course.

Not so much elitist but efficient imho.

nesf

babichou wrote:

I am a poor frenchman who only did learn english in high school and yet i know the difference.

I've met plenty Germans whose levels of English correctness was very high, much higher than most people. It's kind of assumed you pick up a lot of the basics here by osmosis. I knew people in school whose French or German grammar was better than their knowledge of English grammar, simply down to the fact that no one at any point ever really sat them down and taught it to them.

Then, a linguist could argue that "proper English" is not necessarily more correct than whatever garbled nonsense someone on the street comes out with so it's a bit of a catch 22 really. If the majority of English speakers don't follow a particular convention is that convention still correct in any sense outside of academia? The whole amn't thing is an example from Hiberno-English.

deaddonkey

it's hardly a coincidence that now that corporal punishment is taboo here, kids are growing up more and more disrespectful and the streets are less safe than they have ever been, it seems.

when was the last time you saw an average 50 year old abusing people in the street? you see kids doing it all the time now

everywhere i go i see spoilt 5-12 year olds throwing tantrums that would benefit from a righteous kick in the arse

Pepe LeFrits

For 8 consecutive years, I spent 2 or 3 weeks every summer with a French family on exchange. The mother was a complete ****ing psycho. She had 4 boys; the 2 eldest had high tailed it to the other side of the country as soon as they finished school. Of the 2 remaining sons, one was the most timid guy I ever met, and the other was a cheeky bollix who regularly got slapped in the face by his ma at dinner for answering back. The dad was a complete wimp.

It was like going to prison every summer. Any 'crime' would result in getting screamed at for about 10 minutes, denied any 'play-time' and being ordered to do homework for hours. One such crime was the time I took a biro out of the drawer in the kitchen, and forgetfully left it on the coffee table. Another time I wasn't feeling well; I ran to the bathroom but only got as far as the sink before I threw up. Subsequently I got slapped around, (wo)manhandled into the kitchen and told to wash the floor and the dishes as punishment for not puking into the toilet.

I hated going there and told my parents about the mother being a lunatic, but they never believed me. It was only after the 8th year, when my ma came with me to visit them, and the mother made my ma cry, that they finally understood, and I didn't have to go again.

****ing nutjobs.

McGinty

I do think that on the whole, children here are becoming more and more spoiled, I'm a parent who tries to discipline my son and would agree with some aspects of French parenting in terms of boundaries and rules but other aspects are too strict. There seems to be the really strict boot camp style or the totally passive not give a **** style, I think parents need to find the balance between authority and being there for the child. Children are not the centre of universe and neither are adults, but it really bugs me when parents allow their little darlings to be rude, aggressive, obnoxious, disrespectful to people and property (which I see all the time) and basically allowed to do what they want at the expense of everyone else. Children need to be taught boundaries and respect otherwise how are they going to learn as adults.