Shopping Center - The size of Liffey Valley and 260 Houses!

Maisy

I received a copy of the letter as well, but unfortunately the viewing hours of 9.00 a m to 3.00 p m clash with my working hours - if anyone gets a chance to view them, an update would be soooopah, thanks

Ossie

The information can only be reviewed in WCC building planning section. Further observations can be made by anyone who made an observation previously. I would be most grateful if anyone could review this additional information and post a summary on the forum.

mikedragon32

Ossie wrote:

The information can only be reviewed in WCC building planning section. Further observations can be made by anyone who made an observation previously. I would be most grateful if anyone could review this additional information and post a summary on the forum.

And the moderators will be even more grateful if such a summary is OBJECTIVE.

future_plans

Has anybody had the chance to view the changes or get any more information from the County Council on this yet? Unfortunately it's after 7 when I get back in the evenings so I can't get in to view them.

Maisy

I'm in the same boat but, was out walking the other evening and came accross the planning notice - it was very difficult to read, between the tiny print and having to depend on the streetlight. It outlined five bed houses, the apartments and duplexes. The motor show room to be reduced by a floor.

Why on earth don't they put it on line ? Anyone would think they were trying to make if difficult for Joe Public to get a look....;)

MrVostro

My sister lives in Charlesland and is very mussed up about this.
Not only is it looking like she is in the place that looks like its been hit first and hardest by our property crisis, but now she is afraid she will end up living in a ghetto within the next 10 years. The amount of houses for sale and price drops in Charlesland is horrendous. Joyriders and car breakins are getting more common. I get depressed driving up there these days.

Good luck in your objections. Its about time that someone stood up to the co cos and developers. They always seem to get what they want eventually, but dont give up without a fight. Do whatever it takes to prevent this development going ahead.

future_plans

Joyriders and car breakins

The way you say that, you try to make sound as if it's common place. When in fact if you look at the local crime stats, it is not very common at all for a town the size of Greystones. Spouting exaggerated non-sense like that will do nothing for your dear sisters house price.

loyatemu

MrVostro wrote: »

My sister lives in Charlesland and is very mussed up about this.
Not only is it looking like she is in the place that looks like its been hit first and hardest by our property crisis, but now she is afraid she will end up living in a ghetto within the next 10 years. The amount of houses for sale and price drops in Charlesland is horrendous. Joyriders and car breakins are getting more common. I get depressed driving up there these days.

this is nonsense and reminiscent of the sensationalist crap that was being spouted before charlesland was built. I've experienced no crime of any kind in the 2 years+ I've lived here. Houses aren't shifting because theres a nationwide property slump - inevitably properties in large estates are going to be affected by this.

Lumbarda

Well if living in a "ghetto" means living somewhere with lots of green space around, that's so quiet at night you can sleep with the windows open no problem, where even when I'm in the house on my own, (and I would be fairly nervous about that normally, having been used to apartment living before this) I feel completely safe because I also haven't experienced any problems over the past 2 years living here, where you're at the edge of beautiful countryside, beside a beach and a lovely, quiet town.....then I guess all I can say is bring on "ghetto life"!! We couldn't be happier!

Maisy

I have to agree with the last three comments - my first and previous home was in an area with a very high crime rate, I had drug pushers for neighbours. I had some horrendus experiences, including all out war and knife fights in the apartment beside me. The local gardai used to call in to ME to see if I was alright, bless 'em. Furthermore, you really couldn't walk out and about after 9.00 pm - THATS ghetto for ya ! But what the hell, stuck it out, sold last summer and made a killing.

So, relatively, you can understand why I find it a very nice place to live here and why I delight in my pleasant neighbours !

And yes, mods, getting back to the point,:) let me know if anyone gets a look at those plans !!!

MrVostro

Sorry Guys,
Didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings.
I was only telling you to fight the power about the new houses and shopping center. Charlesland is too dense for Greystones as it is, the last thing that should be in that area are more houses, but that seems to be where its going.
Being a Greystones native and having a sister who bought in Charleyville, i have a vested interest here too.
Regarding the break-ins and car vandalism i was only complaining about it on behalf of my sister who has experienced both in Charleyville.
Lumbarda, I think you are being a little estate agentish there. The last few times i stayed in my sisters in charlseland i was woken up in the middle of the night by car alarms or house alarms.
As for house prices people all over the country really need to wake up and smell the coffee. I bet nobody in Charleyville has positive equity at this point. Houses not selling is a symptom of being priced too high. Always has and always will be.

Maisy

Hey ho Mr V - hate to rain on your Gloom parade, but having sold last summer and putting the proceeds into next purchase, I have equity aplenty !!

I think maybe you should go back to the economic studies if you were to think that Charlesland is heaving with negative equity. For obvious reasons, the only countrywide incidents to date of same are those folks who availed of a 100% mortgage. And even then, the gap would be small enough for inflation to take care of it

Certainly there is a cool down, and the market is taking stock of itself. We have caught up with the rest of Europe as regards property prices, particularly in the larger towns and cities. As the great Tony Soprano said, "God aint making any more land" - as it is, there is only sufficient building land around Dublin and its environs for another 15 years or so - hence the buying up of petrol stations etc.

People will always need a home, whether they buy it or rent it.

There ya go, thats my two cents worth - now, about those plans.... lol....

miju

Maisy wrote: »

And even then, the gap would be small enough for inflation to take care of it

eh you do realise that this is completely wrong given the current level of falls dont you above all else :rolleyes:

NedNew

Hi, whilst not wanting to get involved in a spit spat argument, I would just like to add my experiences of Charlesland for whats it worth. I bought a house there and had nothing but trouble. From sewage blockages, to screaming neighbours to people throwing their rubbish in my garden, I can honestly say I was glad to sell the place - which wasn't easy to do mind you since it seems to have gotten a somewhat disreputable name.

Word has it that a certain house near the entrance is being used a brothel. I can neither confirm or deny this but the very fact that this is the rumour is a bad sign.

One day last winter I received a letter under my door, hand written, which said 'keep your splodges away from my house'. I presume this means my children. I ignored this letter but it made up my mind to get out.

mikedragon32

MrVostro wrote: »

Sorry Guys,
Didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings.
I was only telling you to fight the power about the new houses and shopping center. Charlesland is too dense for Greystones as it is, the last thing that should be in that area are more houses, but that seems to be where its going.
Being a Greystones native and having a sister who bought in Charleyville, i have a vested interest here too.
Regarding the break-ins and car vandalism i was only complaining about it on behalf of my sister who has experienced both in Charleyville.
Lumbarda, I think you are being a little estate agentish there. The last few times i stayed in my sisters in charlseland i was woken up in the middle of the night by car alarms or house alarms.
As for house prices people all over the country really need to wake up and smell the coffee. I bet nobody in Charleyville has positive equity at this point. Houses not selling is a symptom of being priced too high. Always has and always will be.

As a Moderator here, I'm finding it VERY hard not to think that you're just trolling and looking around at what you've posted elsewhere, I'm struggling to be convinced otherwise.

As a resident of Charlesland (not Charlyville, as you so churlishly call it), I am fully aware of alarms going off, not as often as you might think and more often than not they're false alarms, thanks to people going away for the weekend and leaving windows open, oversensitive car alarms and god knows what else. If staying here fills you with fear, why not get a taxi back to whichever part of Greystones you claim to be from? Surely your safety is worth the €10 it might cost you to get a taxi home.

As for your equity remark, you'd seriously want to check your facts. 2 beds in the Wood for example, sold for 295k at the launch. Even at current prices I can still make around 100k on my house. If that's negative equity, you have some valid points to make.

Now, if you don't actually have anything of sense to contribute, I suggest you go troll elsewhere. If you do want to post here again, please be sure to read the charter first.

MrVostro

Sincere apologies.
Let me just clear some things up and then im gone from here forever.

Originally i came on here to thank people on behalf of my sis (I myself, dont live in Greystones anymore and my parents still live in Applewood) for finding out about and trying to do something about the Density of housing being built around Charlesland and the shopping center.
The simple fact is that Greystones used to be a small town. Now with the density of housing in Charlseland already it has lost its small town feeling that we grew up with. More dense housing and increases in population is just going to make it worse. Greystones has changed and

I did indeed mention the smashing of cars and some other yob activities that my sister has experienced. I know people here want to pretend everything is ok but doing that wont help stamp this out.

I also mentioned house prices. Either you ignore the property price problem and pretend their is no problem or you are a realist and call it like it is. Its a personal choice. Lets just forget about this one.

I mentioned car and house alarms only in response to this (still laughing)
"that's so quiet at night you can sleep with the windows open no problem, where even when I'm in the house on my own, (and I would be fairly nervous about that normally, having been used to apartment living before this) I feel completely safe because I also haven't experienced any problems over the past 2 years living here, where you're at the edge of beautiful countryside, beside a beach and a lovely, quiet town" from Lumbarda

Charleyville is how Charlseland is referred to by the Greystones natives. Surely you know this. Think of it as a pet name.

Hope i've explained my comments here satisfactorily. I didnt know i was going to be jumped on by the Rose Tinted glasses society at all and didnt mean for this to escalate. Good night and good luck with the objections.

ian_m

This has gone totally off topic.

future_plans

True Ian. I take it nobody has extra information on the development so?!

In reference to MrVosto's comments, it's a free forum and he can write pretty much what he likes. Much like the Bray People who report local news to such an extent that if a cat got stuck up a tree in "Charlyville" it would possibly make it onto the front page. However, I struggle to find a scarce mention of the awful crime spree currently engulfing the local area mentioned anywhere in the local rag.

Not that I need the BP to tell me whats going on locally. I can see & experience it for myself as it's where I live. Although, once outside SQ a very ruley looking ruffian asked me if I had a spare smoke........:eek: I was so petrified that I wanted to move back to Blackrock!!!!

mikedragon32

future plans wrote:

it's a free forum and he can write pretty much what he likes

No it's not and no he can't. That's why there are charters for every section. No such thing as free speech on Boards as it's a privately owned website.

Now if this doesn't get back on course soon, it will be locked.

Lumbarda

I know this has gone off topic and we've actually been down to look at the further info so will bring it back on topic shortly, but first just to respond quickly to MrV as he seems to have taken serious exception to me posting my opinion on where I happen to live :rolleyes:. What I posted is based on my experience actually LIVING in Charlesland for the past 2 years.... Sure there are alarms going off every so often and, yes, they're annoying at times, but in general we've (and friends who have stayed with us) found it amazingly quiet for a development of its size. What I said wasn't "estate agent speak" as we love living here and have no intention or desire to move for the foreseeable future .

Now, back on topic, we had a look at the new info and not much has changed from what we could see. The houses backing onto Charlesland Park seemed exactly the same except for the first house backing onto the end of the Grove which has been changed to a 2 storey social and affordable house set slightly further back from the end wall of the existing houses. They mentioned moving some of the S&A housing from down by Seabourne View to the "western edge of the site" in order to integrate it more but we weren't sure exactly where this was and it wasn't clear from the new plans. We were limited for time and found it hard to make out exactly what other changes there were (basically you're just handed a big box of stuff to go through), there didn't seem to be a lot and they had sent a letter arguing the toss for the size of the shopping centre, so they don't seem very willing to change either! I'll be surprised if the Planner accepts such a limited response to his requests but guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Ossie

Lumbarda wrote: »

I know this has gone off topic and we've actually been down to look at the further info so will bring it back on topic shortly, but first just to respond quickly to MrV as he seems to have taken serious exception to me posting my opinion on where I happen to live :rolleyes:. What I posted is based on my experience actually LIVING in Charlesland for the past 2 years.... Sure there are alarms going off every so often and, yes, they're annoying at times, but in general we've (and friends who have stayed with us) found it amazingly quiet for a development of its size. What I said wasn't "estate agent speak" as we love living here and have no intention or desire to move for the foreseeable future .

Now, back on topic, we had a look at the new info and not much has changed from what we could see. The houses backing onto Charlesland Park seemed exactly the same except for the first house backing onto the end of the Grove which has been changed to a 2 storey social and affordable house set slightly further back from the end wall of the existing houses. They mentioned moving some of the S&A housing from down by Seabourne View to the "western edge of the site" in order to integrate it more but we weren't sure exactly where this was and it wasn't clear from the new plans. We were limited for time and found it hard to make out exactly what other changes there were (basically you're just handed a big box of stuff to go through), there didn't seem to be a lot and they had sent a letter arguing the toss for the size of the shopping centre, so they don't seem very willing to change either! I'll be surprised if the Planner accepts such a limited response to his requests but guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Is it important that submissions are received by WCC in response to the additional information submitted?

Lumbarda

We asked about that and they said that our original submissions still stand, but to submit again if there's anything particular in the further information that you want to respond to.

From what we saw, we'd just be reiterating what we said the first time, i.e. houses too high and too close directly behind us, so I doubt that'd make a difference.

micandre

Hello,
It's an interesting discussion but what is that to do with the title "Shopping Center - The size of Liffey Valley and 260 Houses". Is it worth starting a new discussion on Living in Charlesland/Crime/Alarms?
Regards.

Fiachra2

Lumbarda wrote: »

We asked about that and they said that our original submissions still stand, but to submit again if there's anything particular in the further information that you want to respond to.

From what we saw, we'd just be reiterating what we said the first time, i.e. houses too high and too close directly behind us, so I doubt that'd make a difference.

I wouldnt entirely agree. The Council will probably give this the go-ahead anyway irrespective of your submissions. However if you do not make further submissions, you will be facilitating local public representatives and prominent council officials who will state that, as the revised proposals elicited no futher objections, they assumed everyone thought they (the proposals) were fine

Ossie

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I wouldnt entirely agree. The Council will probably give this the go-ahead anyway irrespective of your submissions. However if you do not make further submissions, you will be facilitating local public representatives and prominent council officials who will state that, as the revised proposals elicited no futher objections, they assumed everyone thought they (the proposals) were fine

The information can only be viewed in the Council offices in Wicklow between 10 and 3 Monday to Friday. It is not available online and cannot be purchased. This restricted access makes it very difficult to even see what this information is so how can we hope to make any comments on it. I wonder if this is a deliberate policy of Wicklow County Council to keep the people well away from any meaningfull access to the planning system?

Mr Posh

Presuming the original objections stand after Zapi’s amendments, have they given a likely date on when the decision will be made?

Lumbarda

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I wouldnt entirely agree. The Council will probably give this the go-ahead anyway irrespective of your submissions. However if you do not make further submissions, you will be facilitating local public representatives and prominent council officials who will state that, as the revised proposals elicited no futher objections, they assumed everyone thought they (the proposals) were fine

Thanks for that info, Fiachra. With that in mind, we've just written again to Wicklow CoCo to say our original objections still stand. Don't know if it'll make any difference but at least we tried.....

Fiachra2

Ossie wrote: »

The information can only be viewed in the Council offices in Wicklow between 10 and 3 Monday to Friday. It is not available online and cannot be purchased. This restricted access makes it very difficult to even see what this information is so how can we hope to make any comments on it. I wonder if this is a deliberate policy of Wicklow County Council to keep the people well away from any meaningfull access to the planning system?

Well they certainly dont make it easy!

I would suggest doing as Lumbarada has done and simply advise them that your original objections still stand.

future_plans

I heard the changes (or extra information) submitted are not very different to what was there before. Some of the S&A apartment and duplex units are moved to the other side of the road from beside the Fairways, but the are being replaced by Semi-D and detached S&A houses. Reducing the total number from around 90 to around 70 I think.

The also submitted a tonne of legal documentation from their solicitors indicating why they have the legal right to alter the layout of Seabourne View (indefinitely it seems or am I wrong?) and that includes using it as a right of way to another development. Apparently it also said that Seabourne View residents will also have to contribute towards the upkeep, costs (insurance etc.) of this new entrance. I assume that means the Seabourne View Management Company.

Charlie-Bravo

In reference to this development, having not viewed this application and there being a knock-on effect to the existing development for childcare facilities I wondering if someone who has inspected the proposal can let me know if there is any provisions for childcare facilities whether a creche, childing minding or so. I do acknowledge there are houses proposed therefore there must be some sort of childcare facilities being planned in order to meet the Local area plans.

My reason for this query - In the Wood and the Court there are a total of 3 creche units (end of terrace type houses) which currently change opf use is being sought for and these are with An Bord Pleanala at present link to pleanala for No. 69 the Wood The decision by the Bord has been put off for the last 3 months so I'm thinking they keep putting it off based on what happens with this new application (wicklow.ie application link). If there is more suitable facilities in the new proposal and will cater for the lack of facilities in the exisiting development then the Bord may base the overturning of the councils decision on this application.