3G Vs HSDPA (One & The Same)?

johnplayerblue

I've read and been told that 3G and HSDPA are one and the same (More or Less) but i don't think that this can be so when it comes to time critical applications. I think these Dos stats bear this out...

HSDPA

C:\Documents and Settings\Msimobo>ping foxnews.com -t

Pinging foxnews.com [82.71.193.197] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=168ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=140ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=145ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=134ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=135ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=134ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=134ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.197: bytes=32 time=134ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 82.71.193.197:
Packets: Sent = 13, Received = 13, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 134ms, Maximum = 168ms, Average = 138ms
Control-C


3G

C:\Documents and Settings\Msimobo>ping foxnews.com -t

Pinging foxnews.com [82.71.193.207] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=587ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=400ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=380ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=379ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=372ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=400ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=392ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=382ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=351ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=350ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=339ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=342ms TTL=53
Reply from 82.71.193.207: bytes=32 time=351ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 82.71.193.207:
Packets: Sent = 13, Received = 13, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 339ms, Maximum = 587ms, Average = 386ms
Control-C

Sponge Bob

hsdpa is sort of 3.3g but differs in some respects from 3.0g data which is max 384k , hsupa in 2008/2009 will make it 3.4g

which ping is which , I would think the slower one is hsdpa ???

as 3.0g data is a fallback ( like 56k to 14k with modems) its still covered by your package however .

jhegarty

johnplayerblue wrote:

I've read and been told that 3G and HSDPA are one and the same (More or Less)

Well yes and no.....


3g covers a number of connection types..... the one most people refer to as 3g is UMTS.... that is the slower connection in your first ping......


HSPDA is a type of 3g connection, but far quicker.....


Its like saying broadband , you might mean 1meg wireless or 24meg adsl....both are broadband but very different types and speeds....

johnplayerblue

hsdpa is actualy the fastest one and is up top.
I'm very, very green when it comes to mobile technologys but finding it very interesting but very technical and just trying to get my head around things

jhegarty

johnplayerblue wrote:

hsdpa is actualy the fastest one and is up top.
I'm very, very green when it comes to mobile technologys but finding it very interesting but very technical and just trying to get my head around things

think of it like this

mobile dial up (older 2g phones) = 9600bps modem
gprs (2.5g phone) = 56k modem
3g/umts (the first 3g system) = the first adsl systems, just under 512k
3g/hspda (the later 3g system) = the newer adsl systems, 3meg+

johnplayerblue

jhegarty wrote:

think of it like this

mobile dial up (older 2g phones) = 9600bps modem
gprs (2.5g phone) = 56k modem
3g/umts (the first 3g system) = the first adsl systems, just under 512k
3g/hspda (the later 3g system) = the newer adsl systems, 3meg+

ahhh..simple but affective little table.
So i've read also that Digiweb have been granted the 4th gen mobile licence, what will this mean over the next year or so or is this the same thing even, mobile wise?

JNive

they are developing their own network and will be using the 088 prefix

watty

HSDPA & 3G are hardly faster than dialup for upload.
GSM can do 14.4kbps (or 28.8kbs twice as expensive using two connections)
GPRS typically 56kbps.

3G 56k up , 384k FOR WHOLE Sector, so quickly slow as GPRS or GSM as users added
HSDPA is 128k up, typically 70k up, and 1.8Mbps or 3.6Mbps down FOR WHOLE Sector, so again with 12 (or 24 on 3.6) users is approaching dialup speed.

Digiweb is a completely different technology, more advanced in time than Mobile Wimax and similar in concept. It's 100% IP based (like Ethernet). The HSDPA is based on a digital voice network so has pings almost 1/3rd as bad as satellite.

The Digiweb pings because it it a pure data network will be more like DSL pings.

The 4G networks have the sort of upstream speed that the next generation phone systems might have. Typically maybe 10 times more, so VOIP and Skype will work. 4G *ONLY* does voice via VOIP, so blocking of 3rdparty VOIP or Skype is unlikely. It makes it money out of selling an Internet connection, not expensive Mobile calls.

Vodaphone is actually right to disable 3G/HSDPA VOIP (not WiFi), as only one person active in a cell can reliably to the upstream part of VOIP. It will stutter if a 2nd person in same cell clicks "send" on an email.

Severe contention and dialup upload speed is the dirty secrets of 3G & HSDPA. The HSUPA simply increases the upstream speed and needs expensive upgrades and new modems. It has no effect on contention or download speed. Main advantage of HSUPA is VOIP support. How excited are Mobile Phone operators about VOIP?

[Originaly I types Cell & meant sector]

Sponge Bob

whole sector watty , typically, not whole cell.

most cells have 3 or 4 sectors to cover 360 degrees. You could be on a quiet one .

JNive

yup, and 3G is 384kbps up also, same as HSDPA. At least on Vodafone it is.

watty

Sponge Bob wrote:

whole sector watty , typically, not whole cell.

most cells have 3 or 4 sectors to cover 360 degrees. You could be on a quiet one .

Yep I meant sector

Sector only = Cell in back of nowhere on an Omni, or possibly in indoor pico/femto cell.

watty

JNive wrote:

yup, and 3G is 384kbps up also, same as HSDPA. At least on Vodafone it is.

Have seen that speed actually? Or read a claim on vodaphone's site or quoting what the modem card physically can do?

http://www.techcentral.ie/small_business/Vodafone_3G_broadband_modem/

In real 02 3G tests the best upstream I got was 70kbps. It's my understanding you need HSUPA for higher than 128kbps upstream. Some of the newer HSDPA modems will support it.

Sponge Bob

but no network in ireland will deploy hsupa for at least a year, it will also reduce latency.

JNive

as i said already my own XU870 Card on Vodafone ( in pure 3g mode, not hsdpa ) gives an easy 300kbps and more upload.

As for O2 i dont know what upload speed I got on that, its been too long lol. Plus we shall see pretty soon anyways.

towel401

doesn't UMTS support 2mbits in ideal conditions

JNive

no its 384/384 in its current implementation
HSDPA is 1.8mbps using QPSK or 3.6mbps using 16QPSK
USDPA is 7.2mbps etc etc etc

Urban Weigl

My real world experience is that on Vodafone, I can always upload at 384kbps, unless they are having a network problem unrelated to the cell. I guess that is because most people don't upload a whole lot. 3, on the other hand, seem to limit the upload speed to 56kbps. That appears to be a policy and not a technical limitation.

HSUPA later this year or next year will "fix" the upload speed. I do find it interesting that I can upload significantly faster than most ADSL connections in this country.