dangerous drivers

tabatha

a quick question. has anyone ever done anything about silly drivers? my husband cycles to work everyday and almost everyday someone nearly knocks him off his bike. i didnt realise it was so dangerous! is there anything that can be done legally of course!

Membrane

It is up to your hubby to change his riding style. Nothing that other road users do should be able to endanger him. You can't remove all the muppets from the road, or get them to change their behaviour, the only thing you can control is your own behaviour.

forbairt

I say report to the cops ... take the license plate number ( no idea if this will have any effect though )

I walk a fair bit and I find it completely ****ing ridiculous the drivers who just zoom through the pedestrian traffic lights here when they are orange / red ... (yes I understand that they can go through orange I just strongly disagree with the speed they are going through them)

Trampas

Buy him a helmet with a camera built in.

Then he can record all the crazy drivers and send the video to the gardaí.

Not even sure would that get you anywhere also.

BeerNut

Well, the wife is currently suing one, having secured a conviction for careless driving. But then he did put her in the A&E.

I think if you take their number and report them to the Gardaí they'll get a telephone telling off. But, in addition to what Membrane says, if he's almost getting a knock every day it could be to do with the way he cycles. Any examples?

oneeyedsnake

tabatha wrote:

a quick question. has anyone ever done anything about silly drivers? my husband cycles to work everyday and almost everyday someone nearly knocks him off his bike. i didnt realise it was so dangerous! is there anything that can be done legally of course!

Its not that dangerous,if you are careful, alert, and have some sort of cop on you should be okay most of the time.I have been cycling in Dublin and Manchester for the past 3 years doing about 10miles a day and have only had a handful of crashes,that said I did have one crash were I could have easily died.Even the best cyclists will be knocked off now and again, you just have to take the right precautions.

seamus

Although I would consider cycling to be one of the most dangerous modes of transport, I can't say that drivers nearly killing me is a daily occurrence. Me nearly killing pedestrians is, but luckily they're slow-moving.

If he's only ever driven a car before, he does need to change his riding style. You need to take a definite shift when you go from four wheels to two. You need to assume that you are invisible. Nobody can see you, and perhaps more importantly, nobody considers you to be another road user.

Having driven a motorbike for four years, cycling poses the exact same dangers, the only problem being that you can't accelerate away from them.

A few tips:

1. Look over your shoulder at least once every minute, to find out what people are doing behind you. This is scary as poo the first few times (you think you're gonna wobble off course), but you get used to it quickly.

2. At every junction, no matter what side of the road you are on, or it is on, prepare for somebody to pull out. As you approach a side road, look over you shoulder for vehicles behind you who may be looking to turn into it, and be prepared to give way to them*

3. When riding in traffic and you're overtaking on the left hand side, keep an eye out for gaps in the traffic. Cars will just launch through these gaps. Also be careful when undertaking large vehicles. Pedestrians may walk straight out in front of you.

4. Don't break red lights. It's just dumb.

5. If you need to change lanes, look over your shoulder and do it as early as you can. Always signal with your hands when doing this.

6. Give way to large vehicles - busses and trucks. If they're pulling in on top of you, it's because they can't see you. There's no point in being in the right when you're squished under their wheels.

7. Make a judgement call when overtaking busses alighting passengers. You may feel like a pleb standing behind a parked bus for ages, but it's even more horrible when the bus starts to pull off as you begin your overtake.

*I say "give way", not because you're required to, but because you may die if you don't. Some drivers will just pull across you, others will give you space. You don't get to choose which type of driver you'll meet next, and you can't change their behaviour.

oobydooby

where is your husband cycling?? It's not that dangerous to cycle here - fair enough you have to concentrate very hard in the city. Perhaps if he has head phones on and thinks he's a car he'll have trouble! Don't get me wrong - I'd love to educate many of the drivers on our streets but lots of people i know are scared to cycle because of stories like this and the dangers are exaggerated imo.

I'm 95% with you above there Seamas - I'd pick on your red light point (without starting a new thread which must be old here) but I treat all lights like a yield sign. If it's safe to go I'll go. I don't charge through a green light and I don't automatically wait for a red to go green IF it' safe for me and other road users if I proceed. It's not stupid, it's common sense.

pan

Good advise from seamus above.
I also find that when I'm rushing/speeding I tend to have more near misses and if that if I take it easy it's a lot safer. it's Logical I know, but being more patient around the city pays off!! You can always speed up when out of town.

tabatha

Membrane wrote:

It is up to your hubby to change his riding style. Nothing that other road users do should be able to endanger him. You can't remove all the muppets from the road, or get them to change their behaviour, the only thing you can control is your own behaviour.

pulling out on him at roundabouts for example is hardly his fault :rolleyes:

tabatha

ok, probably exaggerated a little....im sure there is an element of what seamus has said in there, like he has never driven a car before (he has been cycling for over 20 years). he has never ended up in hospital, thank god! but according to him it just seems to be getting worse. i know from driving how many muppets there are on the road behind 4 wheels. his main problem seems to be people pulling out on him at roundabouts. this seems to happen a lot. they just then "wave" at him after almost running him down. another big one are cars turning cornors and not looking in there mirrors. i should point out that he has lights front and back as well as a hi-vis backpack cover and does wear a helmet. no need really not to be seen!

DITTKD

pan wrote:

Good advise from seamus above.
I also find that when I'm rushing/speeding I tend to have more near misses and if that if I take it easy it's a lot safer. it's Logical I know, but being more patient around the city pays off!! You can always speed up when out of town.

Dunno about that. I feel a lot safer going fast. When I stop at lights, I have to get ahead of the car to my right, especially if they're turning left. Add to that, busses that have to stop every few hundred yards. And yee've all said that motorists just don't see you when you're behind them, they might see you when you're in front of them.

BeerNut

Roundabouts are a bugger. Walkinstown is the only one I ever do and it scares the bejaysis out of me every time. The key is to make it abundantly clear from your position and signals what you intend to do. It's one area where being a qualified driver and learning the procedure formally is very useful.

For cars turning left in front of you, you just have to expect that every single one of them is going to do it at any opportunity. Give them space and slow down to a speed that won't injure you if you collide.

No amount of lights and reflective clothing is going to make sure you are seen. In fact, it's possible that the opposite is true.

seamus

Yeah, roundabouts are a complete pain. As a car driver, I consider solid acceleration and progress to be one my biggest assets when approaching a roundabout. Since that's lost on a bike, I do have a tendency to just use the paths and avoid roundabouts as much as possible - particularly if I'm going uphill or otherwise can't move quickly through it.

Quigs Snr

You get an awful lot of clowns out there, most of them unintentionally so, many people just don't know the rules of the road and where cyclists fit into them (both motorists and cyclists are guilty of this). Seamus gave the best advice and I would echo it, just assume that everyone out there either cannot see you or is trying to kill you and you will be a lot safer.

I don't commute on the bike, I just train on it and I get more than my fair share of people pulling out in front of me at junctions etc.... I can deal with that but what I can't abide is those who deliberatley try to cause you harm, they are thankfully rare and usually boy-racers, usually 4 per crappy car wearing baseball hats and they are all comedians. A couple of weeks ago, one car load in a Toyota tin-can roared up beside me, tried to swerve in front of me to force me into a ditch, laughed when I told em where to go and threw a flashlight at me. Yes you read that correctly a flashlight. I was outraged, my race bike literally did cost more than this fools car. Unfortunately for these dumbasses, I was on my way to the start line of a race less than a kilometre away and was late, so when they got held up by the marshalls I rolled up beside them, clipped out my right shoe and ran my pedal cleat the whole way up the side of his custom paint job. Expensive, and not much he could do with about 50 of us there. Man it felt good. However I do not condone this as a solution to your problems, you might not have 50 spandex clad militants at your disposal to deal with the consequences !

Just be aware out there, cycle defensivley, assume like has said before that you are invisible and that everyone else is stupid except for you. You'll be better off !

E@gle.

the other day i was out on the bike and a driver passed me out and then turned left in front of me straight away i started shouting like mad while trying to brake at the same time they then stopped for a second and drove off. i usually give them the middle finger

Amalgam

Quigs Snr wrote:

Just be aware out there, cycle defensivley, assume like has said before that you are invisible and that everyone else is stupid except for you. You'll be better off !

I don't understand that view. I can't drive, so, I cycle a fair bit to and from work, Dublin out to Santry for a couple of years, more recently within the city.

I am ashamed at the attitude of a seemingly large minority of cyclists that have the 'traffic lights aren't for me' view. Lack of lighting, lack of suitable clothing (reflective strips etc).

The cycling experience is what you make of it, go around with a hot head on you and drivers will most probably react, what do you expect?

cyclopath2001

tabatha wrote:

a quick question. has anyone ever done anything about silly drivers? my husband cycles to work everyday and almost everyday someone nearly knocks him off his bike. i didnt realise it was so dangerous! is there anything that can be done legally of course!

It's isn't dangerous but the best attitude is to assume that everyone is out to get you!

Legal avenues are a waste of time unless you've got a serious injury. No money can compensate for an injury.

Assertive riding within one's own ability is helpful and maybe after a while he'll become more relaxed. For some of us, we've had 20 years or more to get used to the organised chaos on the roads & if you're used the the comfort of a car it can be quite a shock to experience the vulnerability of being a cyclist.

Stick with it.

Quigs Snr

Amalgam, you misunderstand me. Granted I did recount an incident where I reacted with a hot-head to a driver who initiated an unprovoked attack on me to impress his gombeen criminal wannabee mates and tried to twice knock me off my bike on purpose. Mea Culpa !

However, the statement you quote is more intended to reflect the view that you should under no circumstances assume anything on the road. Even if the driver on that side road is looking in your eyes as you pass you need to assume that they cannot see you and be prepared to react. I have had people looking straight at me, pull out in front of me. Much like when that car looks like its driving straight through the roundabout, you need to be ready for it to come your way without indicating. I clock up close to 8000km a year and that level of awareness is what has kept me alive to date. Thats all that is meant by that statement.

I do not condone charging around like an angry bull enticing motorists into fights ! It p*sses me off when I do see cyclists ride through lights, on footpaths, with no lights etc.... because that causes drivers to tar us all with the same brush.

By the way, apart from training and racing you wouldn't see me near a bike, I would drive to the bathroom rather than walk if the car could fit in there !

Marathon Man

Quigs Snr wrote:

Unfortunately for these dumbasses, I was on my way to the start line of a race less than a kilometre away and was late, so when they got held up by the marshalls I rolled up beside them, clipped out my right shoe and ran my pedal cleat the whole way up the side of his custom paint job.

Dude you are a legend. Those pieces of trash got exactly what they deserved. In fact they may have gotten off lightly. When Lance Armstrong and his buddy were out training they had a similar experience with a drunk in a pick up truck who deliberately tried to run them off the road. Lance called the cops and the result was the drunk was jailed for assault with a deadly weapon.

Membrane

Quigs Snr wrote:

I rolled up beside them, clipped out my right shoe and ran my pedal cleat the whole way up the side of his custom paint job

Whilst I sympathise with the anger and rage you can feel when you are deliberately attacked like you were, taking revenge is likely to make things worse imo. An eye for an eye is likely to end up with two people being blinded.

oneeyedsnake

I have literally been chased by a handbrake lock wielding maniac last summer in Manchester. Here is an account of the incident, I wrote it a few hours afterwards that day on my bebo blog.

While balancing my bike at a junction I had no idea I was blocking the cars behind me. Then I heard a roar from the driver behind me:” you ****ing little knob head" I considered turning around and exchanging expletives but I decided this Manchurian was worth the effort. So I cycled across the road suddenly I heard a car roar and tires screaming behind me, I quickly realised that this guy was some sort of nut case and hoped up onto the path just in case he tied to run me over in his fit of rage. As he pulled up beside me he vehemently informed me that:" I was ****ing dead" I looked over towards him, he was a skinny pathetic looking man, couldn’t have been much more than 5 foot tall. I thought to my self yeah I'll take him easy enough so I stopped beside his car said 'come on then mate’, bad idea. He jumped out brandishing a fairly heavy duty car lock which he obviously planned on introducing to my face. I quickly jumped back on my bike and in interests of self preservation made a bee line for the end of the street but the road was pretty long and deserted bar a couple of cars at a junction near the end. Soon enough the nutter was bearing down on me with no intention on stopping, I had to make a decision fairly sharpish, do I turn right and head down the one way street with the flow or do I turn left and go against the flow thus increasing my chance of escape but also risking hitting any on coming car head on. Ether way I was going to be making a pretty much blind turn at 30 odd miles an hour, I decided to gamble and swung a wide left and prayed... luckily the only on coming car was about 200 yards away so I hoped on to the path and peddled like a bastard, after a couple of hundred yards I looked behind and to my relief the nutters car was heading away from me, the gamble had paid off.

As if this wasn't enough some scumbag flung a metal bar he was using to smash the **** out of a car at my brother as he was cycling by a few weeks ago back in Dublin.

robfitz

OP I suggest that you buy your husband a copy of Cyclecraft, it is a book about advanced cycling skills. I would recommend it to any cyclist or someone thinking of getting back on there bike again.

tabatha

robfitz wrote:

OP I suggest that you buy your husband a copy of Cyclecraft, it is a book about advanced cycling skills. I would recommend it to any cyclist or someone thinking of getting back on there bike again.

like i have said before, he has been cycling for over 20 years, and cycles over 100km a week so reading a book probably wont help much, thanks anyway. i doubt there is much he can do to control dangerous drivers!

RainyDay

BeerNut wrote:

I think if you take their number and report them to the Gardaí they'll get a telephone telling off.

Try reporting them to Garda Traffic Watch line at 1850-205805. This means that the incident is logged on the system before being passed to the local Garda station (whereas I reckon that a lot of incidents reported directly to the local station never get logged). You should be invited to make a statement at the station, and the offending driver should then be asked to make his statement. The Garda and/or his Superintendent may then decide to prosecute.

Cabaal

robfitz wrote:

OP I suggest that you buy your husband a copy of Cyclecraft, it is a book about advanced cycling skills. I would recommend it to any cyclist or someone thinking of getting back on there bike again.

Got this book awhile back, thought I knew everything but to be honest there's lots of little helpful hints that can improve your cycling and make it safer

seamus

tabatha wrote:

like i have said before, he has been cycling for over 20 years, and cycles over 100km a week so reading a book probably wont help much, thanks anyway. i doubt there is much he can do to control dangerous drivers!

Definitely can't hurt. There's no-one alive who knows everything about using their favourite mode of transport

oobydooby

that looks like a really good book - I thought you were joking at first:rolleyes: can you get it in Easons?

souter

..lot of good advice, I can only emphasize cycle defensively.
Whenever a car has potential to intersect you - stare at the driver. You'll either make eye contact, in which case people are less likely to run over someone they have made some connection with. If you don't make eye contact, prepare for evasive action.
Other tips are are be a good citizen. For some reason car drivers are incensed by cyclists jumping lights. I don't think they'll make a conscious decision to run you you if they see it, but what goes around comes around.
Always signal, and clearly. Even if there are no cars about you're conditioning yourself, and there may be a car that has sneaked up on you.
And ultimately, discretion is the better part of valour. There are some right turns where I've lost confidence and I'll walk at a the pedestrian crossing - dismounted.
Saying all that, right turns at busy roundabouts are a bitch and lucky I don't have any on my r4egular commute.

Been cycling in towns on and off for about 25 years now. Touch wood but the only spills so far have been with car doors and black ice.

Radio Mad.

souter wrote:

.. For some reason car drivers are incensed by cyclists jumping lights.

And why wouldn't drivers be incensed, especially if they have a green light and, as quite often happens, a cyclist crosses their path after breaking a red light? It's downright dangerous and very, very stupid. Traffic lights are there for the safety of all road users, including cyclists. I really don't see why some people think they're above the law. Anybody crashing a red light deserves to be prosecuted. If gardai were more vigilant and stiffer fines were handed down you can be guaranteed it wouldn't be such a problem.

kincsem

I have three bicycles (?) but any cycling is just for leisure. When I started two years ago I went out at 21:00 in the evenings to avoid the traffic. It was just too dangerous before that. Now I get off the main roads as soon as possible.

I have had two minor crashes in the car in the last four years. The first was when a car in the middle of three lanes suddenly turned left across me (middle lane was road marked for ahead only) I was in the left lane, which had road marking arrows for left or straight ahead. The second crash was at a crossroads. I was on a main national road, when a car crossed the road as I was passing and hit me midships.

You have to realise that there is a very high number of drivers without full licences, white van drivers :eek: , mobile phone users, school run drivers, and non-indicating lane jumpers.

I would believe one dangerous incident a day if you travel by bike in heavy traffic. Try to avoid the main roads.