Posters who think they're customers

Cabaal

jahsus Dev you could have told me we don't get paid, I've been depending on that money to get my Mortgage!

seamus

To *get* your mortgage? I showed my bank manager that thread and he practically threw money at me! What am I going to do now?

Cuddlesworth

seamus wrote:

To *get* your mortgage? I showed my bank manager that thread and he practically threw money at me! What am I going to do now?

Give it to me?

Cabaal

seamus wrote:

To *get* your mortgage? I showed my bank manager that thread and he practically threw money at me! What am I going to do now?

Yeah but I need to show him bank statements and my P60 from boards.ie in order to get approved, this really isn't good enough,

the_new_mr

Maybe it would be cool if, when you ban user (either using the pop-up menu or the modutils) then it would open a new window/tab with a form that has a default message like the one that Hobbes uses to be sent to the banned user. I've been using a slightly altered version of his ever since I saw it.

DeVore

Lol.... but there is a serious point to be made here and its not one that the admins have overlooked. We have to take a holistic approach to mod-management simply because there are too many of them to micro manage.

The same thing happened to us when we hit 1000 users, we made the decision to stop modding the forums individually ourselves (the admins) and created a few local Mods in each. Now we have 500 mods and we are reaching the same issues with them. In part we have helped the situation by creating the smods but by and large we leave the mods alone and they can be kings in their own little fiefdom. There are periodic discussions between the admins as to what to do about this and whether we need to do anything about it at all. I think in the next year there may be some changes to conflict-resolution but what we have works pretty well, so I dont think we'd change much...

Now, we listen to complaints in feedback and private PM's so dont think it falls on deaf ears. But if we are going to rebuke a mod for his/her actions it will be in private so the rest of you wouldnt be aware. This has happened many many times. On occasion it has led to the removal of mod-ship because of irreconcilable differences.

DeV.

DeVore

ned78 wrote:

I was going to provide several examples from a thread I had originated when I was banned from Paranormal. The thread was about 12 pages long, with many many Mods standing on soapboxes saying they'll do whatever they want when they want, it's not a job, etc, but now the thread is 2 pages long. Go fig.

Well since every post is write-locked after 48 hours, I "fig" you might have found the wrong thread

DeV.

jhegarty

DeVore wrote:

But if we are going to rebuke a mod for his/her actions it will be in private so the rest of you wouldnt be aware. This has happened many many times. On occasion it has led to the removal of mod-ship because of irreconcilable differences.

DeV.

I think this is where people get it wrong... they expect it to be like a court (justice should be seen to be done) and not like a company (employee is slapped around in private by hr/boss)...

seen as boards is a company and not a government the latter is of course the correct way for it to be.....

MooseJam

ive signed up to boards , 50 euro plus, and have received nothing but abuse from mods

ecksor

For 50 more I will harass you on a daily basis.

MooseJam

ecksor wrote:

For 50 more I will harass you on a daily basis.

ok sounds good to me, but i should be able to change my name for the 50 ?

ecksor

Is there a name change request being missed? I can have a look at that if you supply a link or a request.

Does it involve any sort of fruit or dairy produce?

MooseJam

ecksor wrote:

Is there a name change request being missed? I can have a look at that if you supply a link or a request.

Does it involve any sort of fruit or dairy produce?

lol ecksor is on the ball -> im good now though im sure you have noticed, no more badness from me

aidan_walsh

Wasn't that particular username previously perma-banned for muppetry, or am I thinking of someone else?

ecksor

Apart from advertising matchboxes and that unbearable whiff of troll on the Islam forum, yes, you're a model poster.

Or another viewpoint is that you're still a frickin' clown who couldn't stay off of our radar and perhaps there's no reason to tolerate you at all.

Hagar

MooseJam wrote:

ive signed up to boards , 50 euro plus, and have received nothing but abuse from mods

Go on over to LGB I've arranged a little treat for you from one of the mods.

oscarBravo

r3nu4l wrote:

...just because I make a voluntary subscription does not mean I'm not a customer...I voluntarily pay for products I buy from shops, that makes me a customer rather than a shoplifter.

I couldn't disagree more. You don't "voluntarily" pay for products you buy from shops; you're required by (contract) law to do so. No payment, no goods.

I subscribe, and I don't consider myself a customer. I'm just giving something back, is all.

MooseJam

ecksor wrote:

Apart from advertising matchboxes and that unbearable whiff of troll on the Islam forum, yes, you're a model poster.

Or another viewpoint is that you're still a frickin' clown who couldn't stay off of our radar and perhaps there's no reason to tolerate you at all.

yes im a muppet and a big clown but i did donate 50 so im due a little bit of tollerence, im sorry about the matchbox , i was a bit tipsy is all, ill donate another 50 in the morn to make up for my mistake

aidan_walsh

MooseJam wrote:

im a muppet and a big clown but i did donate 50 so im due a little bit of tollerence

lol.

mad m

MooseJam wrote:

yes im a muppet and a big clown

I have to burst into a song now....."Its time to play the music,its time to light the lights,its time to play the music on the Muppets show tonight."...Cmon everyone....



Sorry,couldn't help myself.

Sparky

MooseJam wrote:

yes im a muppet and a big clown but i did donate 50 so im due a little bit of tollerence

No you're not!

Neither you nor any other user/mod including myself gets tolerance for acting the ass hole on boards just because they/we happened to donate a sum of money towards this site in the form of a subscription.

Your reward is getting a little bit more features than a normal user, not a bit of "oh we'll let that go, cos he paid ya know!"

No way should you ever consider the running of this site that way.

You acted the muppet just like iMax and his fake "marketing" adverts.

RuggieBear

banana yoghurt?

Hagar

But there are no spoons...

randylonghorn

r3nu4l wrote:

just because I make a voluntary subscription does not mean I'm not a customer...I voluntarily pay for products I buy from shops, that makes me a customer rather than a shoplifter.

oscarBravo wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. You don't "voluntarily" pay for products you buy from shops; you're required by (contract) law to do so. No payment, no goods.

I subscribe, and I don't consider myself a customer.

Sorry, r3nu4l, but you don't voluntarily pay for products you buy in a shop. You voluntarily choose to buy them, yes ... but having made that choice, you're obliged to pay for them, as oscarBravo says.

I don't see boards like that. 90% (estimated!) of the services the site offers are available to everyone free of charge, if they voluntarily choose to subscribe there is a bit of "added value", true, e.g. the custom avatar you mention, but the way I look at it, it's a bit like making a contribution to a good cause and getting a daffodil or whatever to stick on your coat.

r3nu4l wrote:

If I want to I can sample as much after-shave as I want in Boots for free using the tester bottles (sample boards for free) but I can't get access to the full bottle (avatar and S&S forum on boards) without paying (subscribing)

Fair enough, but given the proportion of boards which is available to everyone, regardless of whether subscribed or not, it's almost as if Boots had installed a tester unit outside everyone's front door, and by choosing to give them a small subscription, you could have one installed in your bathroom, and save yourself the walk to the door.

MooseJam wrote:

i did donate 50 so im due a little bit of tollerence

Bull***t!

MooseJam wrote:

yes im a muppet and a big clown ... im sorry about the matchbox, i was a bit tipsy is all

If you left it at that, you might have done yourself some bit of good ... not that I have a clue what the story is with the matchbox, nor am I interested.

ecksor wrote:

For 50 more I will harass you on a daily basis.

Jeez, ecksor, you should charge a lot more for that kind of personalised service!

OTK

BrianCalgary wrote:

[...posters should not think of themselves as customers because...]
1 - On boards.ie you pay nothing

Posters generate the content that represents the value of the site. Posters contribute and they receive. You can look it as a contra deal.

2 - you are not a customer

Your point being here that we are not customers because we are not customers. I'm guessing you're not a theologian.

3 - Mods don't get paid

Being a volunteer doesn't exempt you from criticism. The owners aren't paid either but they are getting what horny investors call 'capital appreciation'.

4 - we mods do this out of the goodness of our hearts

Surely, the truly good-hearted might spend their time visiting the sick and the lonely rather than revoking access permission for naughty users in internet groups? I think it's more likely that mods do their jobs out of a reasonable desire for self-esteem.

5 - whining and complaining rarely gets you anywhere.

Complaints are of value to any organisation - if its members can find the humility to listen and then to change. Putting all your energy into angrily beating down any dissenters leads you to become a group that can't improve and that can't stop abuse.

If you want to be a good-hearted mod, toiling away for the love of your community, maybe you should just turn the other cheek when a customer complains to you- or even about you. Stop and think: maybe the other guy has a point and maybe you don't have all the answers. Maybe it's possible that there could be a better way of doing things around here that might help boards rather than blocking your ears and taking out your animal pictures.

So I disagree with everything you had to say.

WhiteWashMan

OTK wrote:

Posters generate the content that represents the value of the site. Posters contribute and they receive. You can look it as a contra deal.
Your point being here that we are not customers because we are not customers. I'm guessing you're not a theologian.
Being a volunteer doesn't exempt you from criticism. The owners aren't paid either but they are getting what horny investors call 'capital appreciation'.
Surely, the truly good-hearted might spend their time visiting the sick and the lonely rather than revoking access permission for naughty users in internet groups? I think it's more likely that mods do their jobs out of a reasonable desire for self-esteem.
Complaints are of value to any organisation - if its members can find the humility to listen and then to change. Putting all your energy into angrily beating down any dissenters leads you to become a group that can't improve and that can't stop abuse.

If you want to be a good-hearted mod, toiling away for the love of your community, maybe you should just turn the other cheek when a customer complains to you- or even about you. Stop and think: maybe the other guy has a point and maybe you don't have all the answers. Maybe it's possible that there could be a better way of doing things around here that might help boards rather than blocking your ears and taking out your animal pictures.

So I disagree with everything you had to say.

i find myself agreeing with most of what you have to say.
for some reason, i find myself moving away fromthe classic mod 'i dont get paid' argument towards a viewpoint of customer satisfaction, and what that represents.

the biggest challenge is to get reasonably consistant moderation across the board.

Mr Magnolia

MooseJam wrote:

yes im a muppet and a big clown but i did donate 50 so im due a little bit of tollerence

Hope Talliesin doesn't see that gem.

Talliesin wrote:

Any subscriber arguing that they shouldn't be banned on the basis that they are a subscriber will be immediately sitebanned.

seamus

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i find myself agreeing with most of what you have to say.
for some reason, i find myself moving away fromthe classic mod 'i dont get paid' argument towards a viewpoint of customer satisfaction, and what that represents.

I don't think I'll ever find myself moving towards the "all users are customers" viewpoint. In my head now, it's a large club. Everyone involved in the club, uses the club, including the guys at the top. People are free to come and go from the club whenever they want - they don't even have to pay subs if they don't want to. Members have a right to have their grievances and suggestions heard, but nothing else, and they're not guaranteed to be satisfied, only to be heard. If they are unhappy with the actions of other members or don't feel they are being listened to, they're free to leave.

the biggest challenge is to get reasonably consistant moderation across the board.

Well, I would tend to agree with this.
I think the two biggest problems facing boards given its size and growth are the above consistent moderation, and also handling grievances or disputes outside of the feedback forum. Complaints and suggestions belong in feedback. Disputes between members, or grievances about an individual mod's actions belong elsewhere where irrelevant people can't contribute.
The amount of noise on feedback means that although there appears to be a lot of unhappy complaints, the reality is quite opposite, as DeV pointed out.

It's an unchangeable fact of all services that happy users will remain quite, whereas unhappy users will vocalise. The only way you find out if people are happy, is to ask them.

I've been churning over a few ideas in regards to consistent moderation while I've typed - a few extra tools for moderators may help apply a standard template across the board (I can't help it, it's the hacker in me). I'll churn over them a bit more and maybe stick up a new thread about it.

ecksor

MooseJam wrote:

yes im a muppet and a big clown but i did donate 50 so im due a little bit of tollerence, im sorry about the matchbox , i was a bit tipsy is all, ill donate another 50 in the morn to make up for my mistake

Don't do that. The last time you did this we banned you and you went and had a moan to paypal to get your money back. Don't subscribe thinking that it gives you immunity from being a muppet. Just stop acting like a twat.

r3nu4l

randylonghorn wrote:

Sorry, r3nu4l, but you don't voluntarily pay for products you buy in a shop. You voluntarily choose to buy them, yes ... but having made that choice, you're obliged to pay for them, as oscarBravo says.

That's true but so is this...
If you voluntarily choose to have access to the S&S forum and get a custom avatar, having made that choice you are obliged to pay for them. The argument stands.

Fair enough, but given the proportion of boards which is available to everyone, regardless of whether subscribed or not, it's almost as if Boots had installed a tester unit outside everyone's front door, and by choosing to give them a small subscription, you could have one installed in your bathroom, and save yourself the walk to the door.

Yes but the argument still stands on technicality...and besides, when you're as lazy as me the front door can seem a long, long way away

BTW, While I am making these arguments, I don't necessarily see myself as a customer of boards.ie. I view it as a web forum I chose to donate to.
However, that does not mean that the argument cannot be made that boards.ie is not a for-profit business (it is!) or that by charging for access to certain parts of the website they are taking on customers (they are [imo]). I'd be interested to hear the legal view on this, hulla seems to view himself as a knowledgebase of Irish law (being a law student and all), I'd like his opinon/clarification.