Road Tax - Too Much

RobAMerc

Does anyone else think our Road Tax rates are ridiculously high given that any decent piece of road we have is now tolled, the rest are rubbish (shortening the life span of our motors), and we've already paid 30% above the odds for the car in the first place?

is there anything we can do before the next budget invariably puts them up?

Motoring in Ireland really makes me sick - I am finding it very hard to keep my passion for motoring alive these days.

peasant

The least that could be done is that all motoring money (VRT, road tax) would actually have to be spent on motoring rather than just diasappear in a big, black hole.

barrett1965

I'd like to see a car tax system that's based on mileage.

C_Breeze

RobAMerc wrote:

Does anyone else think our Road Tax rates are ridiculously high given that any decent piece of road we have is now tolled, the rest are rubbish (shortening the life span of our motors), and we've already paid 30% above the odds for the car in the first place?

is there anything we can do before the next budget invariably puts them up?

Motoring in Ireland really makes me sick - I am finding it very hard to keep my passion for motoring alive these days.

its ridicuolus.

Expensive poverty spec cars, rip off insurance, ridiculous road tax rates and then paying to use that joke of an M50 thats backed up every evening and who wont even let you off if you're 10cent short .. Scamming , Robbing B#$&*ards

Idleater

RobAMerc wrote:

Does anyone else think our Road Tax rates are ridiculously high ...

To be fair, at €0 it is probably one of the lowest in Europe, if not the world.;)

However, I would like to see Motor tax on the other hand reformed to be a calculated more per usage than per anum.

L.

mike65

Smart arse!

The good news is that the Greens are deffo interested in ditching motor tax, I was listening to Eamon Ryan or Trevor Seargent yesterday and I get the feling they'll be pushing for a tax on use not ownership. He reckoned it would only pump up fuel prices by a few cent a litre. Anyone done the maths?

Mike.

Idleater

taxing the fuel is a very simple and effective way to "pay by the mile", and as long as it can be verified that x c/litre are taken and stored specifically for road maintainance/improvement/removing razorwire and loose chippings I don't care.

Stephen

If I was in the UK, motor tax for my car would cost €207 (at today's rate) instead of €484 per annum. Bleh.

RobAMerc

anybody fancy a emailing campaign for "tax as you use" on Mr John Gormless ?

Surely someone here on boards has a purdy enough tounge to put a mail together and we could individually sign and spam..... err I mean mail him it?

stipey

€67 for the bike.

Idleater

stipey wrote:

€67 for the bike.

€134 for 2 bikes

which is less than the equivalent capacity of car.

so 4 wheels, more cc's, more power, more fun....

but yeah, I can only drive one at a time.


L.

unkel

mike65 wrote:

The good news is that the Greens are deffo interested in ditching motor tax, I was listening to Eamon Ryan or Trevor Seargent yesterday and I get the feling they'll be pushing for a tax on use not ownership.

Which is in accordance with the "polluter pays" principle. That might very well be the one area where FF has conceded to the Green Party. Dan Boyle of the Green Party was on here in this forum just before the election. I might PM him to see does he want to come back to comment

mike65 wrote:

He reckoned it would only pump up fuel prices by a few cent a litre. Anyone done the maths?

A few cent a litre? LOL

Spot on, Mike, for raising that point. No offence to the Green Party, but I've heard too many comments like that from politicians (in general) who either live in la-di-da land themselves or expect to convince us ordinary folk with outrageous Santa Claus promises like that. I haven't done the maths, can someone put in an attempt here please? My gut guess would be more like a few DOZEN cent a litre

Even at that, it's not something to be discarded outright imho. Excise duty is very low in this country and with our geographical situation there is space to extend it by up to €0.60 per litre without too much friction

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Even at that, it's not something to be discarded outright imho. Excise duty is very low in this country and with our geographical situation there is space to extend it by up to €0.60 per litre without too much friction

So long as you live near adequate public transport/live in the pale.

If fuel prices rose by that much places like west Kerry would start to see the creation of an independent state as a viable option. While such a move may well encourage people who live in suburbia to use public transport, it would be little more than an unjust tax on people who commute in and out of rural Ireland.

Id think a congestion charge in Dublin would be a more sensible option tbh.

Esel

Let me see:

Vested interests: Hauliers - they pay more for diesel; do a lot of kilometers - so the price of almost everything goes up accordingly, plus a mark-up for the inconvenience. Commercial travellers (or more correctly, the company they work for) ditto. Fuel smugglers - field day.

Nice if it happened though - for low kilometer per annum drivers like me!

If you really want to get radical, start a campaign to drive on the right. Sweden made the change successfully. Why should we slavishly follow the UK anyway? It would make the border interesting again.

peasant

Yepp ...the rural low-miler is going to be hit.

Example: 10000 km p.a., 7l/100km, 1.3 car (258 euro tax)

at current prices: 700 litres x 1.2 = 840 euro + 258 = 1098 euro per year

at new prices of 1.8 euro: 700 x 1.8 = 1260 euro per year

baddabing

mike65 wrote:

Smart arse!

The good news is that the Greens are deffo interested in ditching motor tax, I was listening to Eamon Ryan or Trevor Seargent yesterday and I get the feling they'll be pushing for a tax on use not ownership. He reckoned it would only pump up fuel prices by a few cent a litre. Anyone done the maths?

I think we will be waiting a long time before the Green's will be able to do anything for us. Motor Tax is a huge portion of the Govt tax take and the greens are no more than the new recruits that will be told what to do, and how to do it by FF. I still have trouble believing that the majority of this country put them back in...but's thats another thread....

Suffice to say, any change in policy over motor tax is going to be replaced by something else in the buying and running of a vehicle, and not fuel, I think they would actually lose money on that in the long run, with fuel consumption technology getter better and better each model that arrives.

A simple case would be to cap the tax at a reasonable amount per annum, say €500, cause let's face it, the people who complain about anything to do with our roads, taxes etc actually love their motoring, and therefore don't drive 1.4 Yaris' around the place...

Linford

RobAMerc wrote:

Does anyone else think our Road Tax rates are ridiculously high given that any decent piece of road we have is now tolled, the rest are rubbish (shortening the life span of our motors), and we've already paid 30% above the odds for the car in the first place?

is there anything we can do before the next budget invariably puts them up?

Motoring in Ireland really makes me sick - I am finding it very hard to keep my passion for motoring alive these days.

After paying €40k + in stamp duty a couple of years ago, the €821 I pay in car tax is the least of my worries. They are many other stealth taxes that we also pay. In any event, the Irish people voted the government back in, so nothing will change...

jjbrien

What I hate about the current motor tax system is i drive a small car 1108cc and because of the extra 8cc i have to pay the next higher rate. :mad:

Blue850

how to beat the system, run a 30+ year old Merc diesel on veg oil:D

RobAMerc

Blue850 wrote:

how to beat the system, run a 30+ year old Merc diesel on veg oil:D

I would truely love to, but if I was that keen to avoid road tax I'd buy a Lamborghini tractor and drive it to work (might pick up a nixer too), because 30+ yo diesels are more "argricultural" I'm afraid.
I would have converted my 280CE to Gas - but I was worried I'd have trouble finding a filling station.

Edit: Think what the girls would say when I told them I had a Lambo!

maidhc

RobAMerc wrote:

Edit: Think what the girls would say when I told them I had a Lambo!

I tell people how I drive a 7.5L 2 door.

but seriosuly, I am still harbouring notions of running a Ford Capri on bio ethanol. Best of all worlds!

Blue850

jjbrien wrote:

What I hate about the current motor tax system is i drive a small car 1108cc and because of the extra 8cc i have to pay the next higher rate. :mad:

The Fiat 127 in my sig is 1301CC:rolleyes:

unkel

peasant wrote:

Yepp ...the rural low-miler is going to be hit.

Example: 10000 km p.a., 7l/100km, 1.3 car (258 euro tax)

at current prices: 700 litres x 1.2 = 840 euro + 258 = 1098 euro per year

at new prices of 1.8 euro: 700 x 1.8 = 1260 euro per year

Nope the rural low-miler is going to win big time

Example: 10000 km p.a., 13l/100km, 3.5 car (1343 euro tax)

at current prices: 1300 litres x 1.2 = 1560 euro + 1343 = 2903 euro per year

at new prices of 1.8 euro: 1300 x 1.8 = 2340 euro per year

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Nope the rural low-miler is going to win big time

The only rural low milers I know are retired priests and batchelor farmers!

We don't have an option, but to use the car, so it is unfair to suggest taxation will have any effect on usage. It will just be money to the government.

Rovi

Lead me to it.

Example-
10000 km p.a., 14l/100km, 4.2 car (1343 euro tax)

at current prices: 1400 litres x 1.2 = 1680 euro + 1343 = 3023 euro per year

at new prices of 1.8 euro: 1300 x 1.8 = 2520 euro per year

unkel

maidhc wrote:

We don't have an option, but to use the car

I don't want this turned into a rural vs city thread. My point is that the polluter should pay. So taxation on usage only, not on ownership!

The guy that bought my last car (he lives deep down in Longford BTW) has about a dozen big engined cars. Taxing them would cost €20,000 per annum, even though he can only ever drive one at a time. A ridiculous situation, given that huge petrol guzzling stretch limos covering intergalactic mileage while in business 24/7 only pay €40 in road tax

peasant

Those people that do low miles and already have to watch the money and therefore drive small cars WOULD be punished though.

In my estimation that would be a fairly sizeable percentage of the population.

Second cars in rural locations for mummy to drive the kids around in ...cars for old biddies and old joes to drive to church in ..then non-working car on a small farm etc etc

All cars driven by traditional Fianna Fail voters

It just won't fly

maidhc

unkel wrote:

I don't want this turned into a rural vs city thread. My point is that the polluter should pay. So taxation on usage only, not on ownership!

Agreed, but it isn't a green tax unless there is a viable alternative. Right now there isn't one for the majority of people who live outside dublin, and a poor one for those that do live in Dublin!