All Benoit Discussion In Here

The Sparrow

I`m not sure what I think about these blogs etc by WWE wrestlers/ performers. I can see where they are coming from, but its quite obvious that professional wrestling is a sick business that needs curing. Ok fair enough you can take the viewpoint (and I would largely agree) that Benoit did what he did because of personal demons that were inside him and that these demons would probably have manifested whatever the circumstances.

However to me at least, this tragedy has sought to highlight the underlying issues in pro wrestling and the appalling death rate amongst young wrestlers of which Benoit was one. So I`m not sure I really appreciate comments from Helms that wrestling needs defending from those who are bashing it. Instead I think that wrestling needs to be repeatedly bashed until members of that industry take more responsibility (both at management level and individual wrestlers who pump themselves with drugs) and clean it up.

As for the bashing of people like Mero and Blackman, well in my opinion they have both spoken a lot of sense on any of the shows that I have seen. And why are these so-called washed up wrestlers being interviewed? Because WWE won`t allow their talent to give interviews unless its to Larry King and his softball questions. And in the absence of any comment from the WWE, why shouldn`t these guys give their opinions? At least they are completely unbiased towards the situation and have no agendas.

I dunno, I think people in the WWE should be more worried about cleaning up their own acts than bashing people for telling the truth about the awful state of the industry.

Vince135792003

I completely agree with you.

Fozzy

The Observer reports that Finlay will be on Nancy Grace on Friday to debate Marc Mero. Could be interesting

Vince135792003

Dave Meltzer (looking like he needs a good sleep) and Lance Storm on ESPN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSgpl_oBM04

D-FENS

I have to say, i find some of Bischoff's comments quite valid, but it's still funny hearing him accuse someone else of sensationalizing and exploitiing a situation for ratings.
Come on Eric, you know controversy creates cash....

Vince135792003

Meltzer on Ken Kennedy's comments:

After writing the past week about how sad it is to see people more concerned with protecting the business, which keeps a deadly status quo, than offering suggestions on how things can improve, we get www.ken-kennedy.com

This business divisiveness of people "choosing sides" as opposed to working for improvements is outright pathetic. Not surprising, but sad. When you read this, you'll realize that unless it comes from the outside, nothing will ever change.

Every wrestler on top at 30 has this attitude, and when they are on the scrap heap at 45, they have a very different view (unless they have a child wanting a job, in which case they toe the line, as witnessing the complete 180 of Ted DiBiase three years ago and Ted DiBiase today).

But I thought the column was very important to read. Some of you will like it if you subscribe to the viewpoint that it's us against them and above all, we have to save our industry no matter what the cost. Some will have a very different idea reading it.

Ph3n0m

Vince135792003 wrote:

Dave Meltzer (looking like he needs a good sleep) and Lance Storm on ESPN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSgpl_oBM04

Excellent stuff - wonder if Ken Kennedy will have any kind of comeback about what Lance Storm had to say

shinzon

apologies if this has been posted before

But heres Lanny Poffo (aka Randy Savages brother) and Debra (again) on hannity and colmes talking about the benoit Tragedy

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqPxXaGE4Y


Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9bE0jwSg0

Shin

Vince135792003

shinzon wrote:

apologies if this has been posted before

But heres Lanny Poffo (aka Randy Savages brother) and Debra (again) on hannity and colmes talking about the benoit Tragedy

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqPxXaGE4Y


Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9bE0jwSg0

Shin

Lanny Poffo= train wreck tv

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

Meltzer on Ken Kennedy's comments:

After writing the past week about how sad it is to see people more concerned with protecting the business, which keeps a deadly status quo, than offering suggestions on how things can improve, we get www.ken-kennedy.com

This business divisiveness of people "choosing sides" as opposed to working for improvements is outright pathetic. Not surprising, but sad. When you read this, you'll realize that unless it comes from the outside, nothing will ever change.

Every wrestler on top at 30 has this attitude, and when they are on the scrap heap at 45, they have a very different view (unless they have a child wanting a job, in which case they toe the line, as witnessing the complete 180 of Ted DiBiase three years ago and Ted DiBiase today).

But I thought the column was very important to read. Some of you will like it if you subscribe to the viewpoint that it's us against them and above all, we have to save our industry no matter what the cost. Some will have a very different idea reading it.

It's just the pr battle. of course those near the top in wwe are going to go on the offensive and question the motive of those ex-wrestlers who are appearing on various media outlets. perhaps in some cases they are correct in their questioning of the motives of some ex-wrestlers but Mero in particular comes across as sincere in my view.
It says a lot really that he was dropped from the Larry King show.

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

Dave Meltzer (looking like he needs a good sleep) and Lance Storm on ESPN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSgpl_oBM04

Great interview. Storm is very smart.

fatal

nacho libre wrote:

It's just the pr battle. of course those near the top in wwe are going to go on the offensive and question the motive of those ex-wrestlers who are appearing on various media outlets. perhaps in some cases they are correct in their questioning of the motives of some ex-wrestlers but Mero in particular comes across as sincere in my view.
It says a lot really that he was dropped from the Larry King show.

I agree with you.Mero for one did come across to me as being sincerley concerned about the industry.Alright he did mention alot of times how,when he used to wrestle they used to tell the doctors what they needed and how much of it they needed but I really don't think that much would of that would have changed with the current schedule that wrestlers face.Having said that Lance Storm did point out a really valid point that if anything the schedule is 2/3 that of the "Hulk hogan era"
Wrestlers have stopped drinking and snorking coke after each show but they have resorted to abusing painkilers and steroids and whatever else helps to alleviate the physical and emotional pain night after night on the road.One thing that could solve both the physical and emotional pain would be time-off during the year.But one has to ask how successful such a think will be in pro wrestling.I for one don't think that it would really work.However I would love to be proved wrong.Another thing is that if we give someone 3 months off,we are assuming that the pain will be non existant during the other 9 months of the year,which will not be the case.

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote:

Lanny Poffo= train wreck tv

I saw him on some other show, he's able to turn the most simplistic statement into something so much more interesting

Vince135792003

Finlay was on the Nancy Grace show with Marc Mero and Bryan Alvarez yesterday. It was the first time someone in the WWE was apart of a show that had an alternative view to theirs as well.

Apparently according tot the Torch, Finlay did not come off at all well. I'll post a video as soon as I see it.

mayosteve99

NOt on youtube?????

Vince135792003

niallquinn999 wrote:

NOt on youtube?????

Sadly not yet.

Fozzy

Ted DiBiase has responded to some comments by Dave Meltzer here: http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21291905.shtml

I'm in two minds about it, I do agree with the personal choice element of it, but it's still obvious that the people involved with WWE aren't telling the full story. Finlay's comments when Bryan Alvarez quoted the wellness policy make it look like he's either lying or doesn't know enough about the situation himself. There's an interview that Benoit did a few years ago that's popped up on some sites where he talked about how steroids and drugs are a completely personal choice and that the individual has to be held responsible for their own actions

Kennedy has a video of himself on Fox News last night here: http://www.ken-kennedy.com

Vince135792003

It doesn't have to be simply personal responsibility or company responsibility. It can be both. And I'm not just talking about steroids, I'm talking all of the aspects that comes with the wrestling business.

The industry is obviously not in good shape if 54 people (90% sure thats the figure in the observer) working in major American promotions, under the age 50, have died. And its not like this is the first WWE drug testing policy is it? It wasn't effective in the early '90s so why should we give them the benefit of the doubt now? Because Ken Kennedy says so? A guy whose barley been in the WWE 3 years. **** that.

And instead of wanting to work to improve things as the leading company in wrestling in America, there is this "us" versus "them" mentality coming from the WWE that I hate. They deserve everything they get in the media.


On Ken Kennedy, after 1 blog and 1 tv appearance I honestly can't stand the guy.

On DiBiase, he has 2 sons starting out in the wrestling business. He ain't gonna rock the boat. He knows the game. Maybe in the same way Bret idoes and may explain how quite tame he was on the Larry King show.

On Helms, he made comments about Mero and his lack of stardom. Look in the mirror Helms. Your not exactly Hulk Hogan.


EDIT: Mark Henry interview on the statesman website today. A particular line that stood out was when he said "The travel alone would kill most people. We might do 250 shows a year," he said.

You can read the rest here: http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/07/14/0714henry.html

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote:

On Ken Kennedy, after 1 blog and 1 tv appearance I honestly can't stand the guy.

Ditto. I can`t stand the guy either. Its such nonsense what he is saying. Firstly the same stupid line about only five wrestlers that have died while working for the WWE and the rest as he said were independent guys. Ok number one, unless I`m mistaken, WWE hires all of their talent as independent contractors and that is why a lot of them pay for their own road costs and they don`t get benefits like employees would.

Also the whole five wrestlers argument is a sham anyway. Here is the analogy that I use to dispell it. If a footballer of moderate inherent talent could only make the Premier League if they took performance enhancing drugs because the clubs in the PL only hired footballers with exceptional speed or fitness and players in the lower leagues and ex players were dying because they felt forced to take these drugs to make a decent income as a footballer who do you think would be blamed? Ok everyone could say that the players should have taken responsibility but ultimately it would be the Premier League because of the culture they promoted. If young kids who were starting out in football felt compelled to take drugs to make it in the game, the Premier League would be shut down.

I`m not saying shut down the WWE, but they have to take their share of responsibility instead of this bull**** nonsense of pretending that everything is ok in and industry that they for the most part shape. I can understand Vince saying that crap but not an actual wrestler who must know the score but is still peddling that nonsense. I hope somebody tracks down Kennedy in 20 years and we can see what he thinks then after Vince has dropped him.

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

It doesn't have to be simply personal responsibility or company responsibility. It can be both. And I'm not just talking about steroids, I'm talking all of the aspects that comes with the wrestling business.

The industry is obviously not in good shape if 54 people (90% sure thats the figure in the observer) working in major American promotions, under the age 50, have died. And its not like this is the first WWE drug testing policy is it? It wasn't effective in the early '90s so why should we give them the benefit of the doubt now? Because Ken Kennedy says so? A guy whose barley been in the WWE 3 years. **** that.

And instead of wanting to work to improve things as the leading company in wrestling in America, there is this "us" versus "them" mentality coming from the WWE that I hate. They deserve everything they get in the media.


On Ken Kennedy, after 1 blog and 1 tv appearance I honestly can't stand the guy.

On DiBiase, he has 2 sons starting out in the wrestling business. He ain't gonna rock the boat. He knows the game. Maybe in the same way Bret idoes and may explain how quite tame he was on the Larry King show.

On Helms, he made comments about Mero and his lack of stardom. Look in the mirror Helms. Your not exactly Hulk Hogan.


EDIT: Mark Henry interview on the statesman website today. A particular line that stood out was when he said "The travel alone would kill most people. We might do 250 shows a year," he said.

You can read the rest here: http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/other/07/14/0714henry.html

I agree about Kennedy.
Also, the focus on steroids and drug usage being all about personal responsibility is just a diversionary tactic by WWE employees. The culture in WWE encouraged steriod usage. I mean look at Vince appearing on the cover of that mag that is hardly the image a boss of a company which has had a problem with steroid abuse should be propagating. Unless, you believe he got that body without using a little help.
Traditionally Vince Has always favoured the big guy at the expense of smaller more talented guys so what message does that send out? It is no coincidence that as some of the smaller guys got physicially bigger, due to artificial means, they got to main event level. There maybe an exception with Rey Mysterio but for the most part the scenario outlined has been the reality over the years if you wanted to get to the top in WWE.
Vince had a chance on the today programme to be forthcoming and pro-active about the the malaise in the industry and he failed to do so.
WWE deserve all the intense media scrutiny they are getting as far as i'm concerned. The only way Vince will address any of the problems is if he is hit where it hurts him.

The Sparrow

Dave Meltzer at wrestlingobserver.com:

--The biggest media target for comments as he left was Fit Finlay. What a bad idea last night turned out to be for him and actually, I thought he was lucky because Marc Mero and Bryan Alvarez have so much personal respect for him they could have made him look far worse. Well, also because there were times he opened himself up so badly and Alvarez wasn't on at those moments since the producers wanted Mero vs. Fit. But in the end, Nancy Grace made Fit look terrible. Fit needed a lot more than not knowing the policy he was defending and "only five deaths under our watch" (I presume Nancy & Daniel Benoit's deaths don't count because they weren't contracted employees, like the plethora of young deaths of guys who picked up or worsened habits under the watch who died in their 40s) and "we put smiles on faces" to go on a show like that. I felt sorry for him, but it was another example of everything wrong with how wrestling is handling this situation.

I can't comment on Mr. Kennedy's appearance on FNC because I didn't see it and won't until tonight. I did see Jon Stewart on O'Reilly, and as much as everyone in the profession will knock him because he hasn't been a major star in a long time, I thought he was very honest, which puts him well ahead of most who have been on these shows.

For the same thing, just a different day. Whether it's Kennedy, Finlay, or anyone else, instead of denying there is a problem, because three dead bodies speak that there is a problem, every WWE performer going public should spend far more time talking about a solution. Instead, they'll knock Nancy Grace, who was completely clueless on day one, and after only two plus weeks, has more depth of thought on this story and its true ramifications than any WWE contracted performer who has written or spoke publicly. They'll knock Marc Mero because he wasn't a big star (immaterial) or has an agenda. Who doesn't have an agenda in wrestling? Nobody publicly touches Konnan, who is essentially saying the same things, because it's easier to say Mero hasn't been in the business in years and is out of touch than say that about Konnan. I'm sure he's got an agenda, just like John Cena has an agenda and everyone has an agenda. I'm looking for positive improvements, not hiding (such as WWE taking its Wellness policy off its web site or the McMahon family's disappearing act in public when the media folks actually started learning the story after an embarrassing start), or name calling

Again, why can nobody in WWE say what Dana White said after the Benoit murders. We want to work with all the governmental agencies when it comes to outside testing because after what happened. We don't want steroids in our sport. That was the most horrible crime I've heard of in a long time.

I'm not saying outside agency athletic commission testing is even a partial solution, but the fact WWE--and TNA--won't say anything of the sort advocating or coming up with any improvements after three weeks is telling. Defending the drug policy is futile at this point. It's failure was proven by Benoit having steroids in his home and huge quantities prescribed to him the entire year while being tested. Attempts to use the policy as proof things are fine doesn't work. If things were fine and the policy works, explain the contradiction.

The big problem here is the wrestling industry. They are not to blame for the Benoit murders. They are to blame for their attitude on the Benoit murders. I hate saying this, but while wrestlers are far more honest in general than baseball and football players when it comes to personal use of steroids (in most cases, there are exceptions), many (not all) are coming across as incapable of any depth of thought, and having zero balls or backbone. Instead of working within every means necessary to give suggestions to clean up problems, they are more concerned with protecting the business than saving future lives. They haven't even made the most simple of correlations. In the long run, saving lives is protecting the business. In fact, with every single WWE appearance on television, has one wrestler spoken up with a suggestion on how they can lower the death rate in the future? Or have they attempted, in most cases futilely, to deny what is obvious to anyone with eyesight and half a brain?

I'm begging one WWE wrestler on their blogs or in a public forum to make suggestions to clean up the industry that are viable. Not just WWE. The industry. Whether it be a change of standards of what a star is supposed to look like, schedule that would be more beneficial, or something. If I read one more "personal choice," thing, I want to ask every Mr. Personal choice these questions:

1) Whose personal choice was it to make Bobby Lashley and Dave Bautista two of the company's three most pushed stars. I'm not accusing them of steroids. At least in the case of Dave, the fans took him over the top after HHH handpicked him to be a future star. Why? Great in-ring? Great speaking? But in his case, he got over and drew money and did earn his spot, but what message does that send to 80% of the roster who work better and talk better? As for Lashley, that was Vince's personal choice. All year from within the organization it's been the constant talk of how the fans don't buy Lashley at the level we are pushing him. And did the push lessen? No, it accelerated. Was it because his promos have gotten better? Was it because he outworks the rest of the roster? What trait does Lashley have that one would look at him and say he's a headliner?

2) What personal choice did Nancy and Daniel Benoit make?

Instead of saying the profession isn't to blame, and it both is and isn't, stop being so defensive and address what can be done to make things better and save lives. I have not pushed for athletic commission regulation of pro wrestling for many years, probably not since the early 90s. However, I've seen what has happened in California with MMA and while I don't agree with every commission decision, they have done an excellent job on the drug issue. Armando Garcia has said he would test WWE wrestlers, and I'm sure the same would go for TNA if they ever came, for free, to help WWE. If the business has changed and we want to do everything possible to prevent problems, who will be the first person in WWE to say, "We welcome outside testing." Don't argue "We're not a sport." If nobody was dying, there is no issue. Wrestling, in the big picture, is more real than MMA or boxing, not less, because the body count of superstars is the ultimate reality. Don't argue "it's only five guys who died under out watch," when 40-year-old Chris Benoit had how many of his closest friend this Earth in recent years and every close friend of his that I've spoken with believes that played a part in his mental collapse.

3) Don't tell me about how clean the locker room is. Publicly when Eddy Guerrero died, one guy after another went on television to brag about how Eddy had been clean for years. And I don't know who knew what, but Eddy and I did have mutual very good friends who were constantly monitoring him because they knew he was always at risk. Eddy himself told me that every single day was a struggle fighting his addictions. And by wrestling standards, Eddy may or may not have been clean, but by real world standards, significant usage of pain medication, steroids and GH is not clean. When Fit Finlay went on TV last night and told Mero that there's no proof steroids played a part in Guerrero's death, they needed an advocate who has at least kept up with the business enough to know that Guerrero's death certificate specifically points to steroids as a major contributing cause of his death. If Finlay didn't know that, the company is at fault for not preparing him and allowing him to open himself up to that degree. If he did know, then he's at fault for trying to lie. I believe it's the former. The first time I heard the defense that those old guys don't know and it's a new breed of wrestlers was in the early 90s when Jim Duggan tried to say there were no more steroids in wrestling and it had changed from the days of Superstar Graham and Bruno Sammartino, who were saying there was a steroid problem.

When Nancy Gracie screams on television about the indictment and Dr. Astin prescribing 700 pills in one day, the name in the indictment who he prescribed to was a WWE wrestler. Keep in mind, this is just one doctor located in Carrollton, GA, with a hoard of wrestlers as clients. Why do wrestlers living hours away, in fact, one living hundreds of miles away and another living thousands of miles away, regularly see a doctor in Carrollton, GA? Why did Benoit get the quantity of drugs he did? Listen, if more of the locker room is clean today than eight years ago, that's positive. But don't tell me with that evidence the problems have suddenly vanished and we no longer have to be concerned. Not after three deaths three weeks ago.

This is not a blame game. I don't blame anyone specifically other than Chris Benoit. I blame the environment and ultimately the people who made the decisions that led to this, not for murder, but for inaction. That's the people who ingested, the doctors who prescribed it to be buddies with wrestlers and the profession that has made some cosmetic changes, perhaps even some real changes, but has never once addressed the real issue of hirings, firings and pushes based on physique. Exactly how much punishment and how often, is healthy for an average person in the profession to take without a large percentage succumbing to addictive chemical help? Will WWE and TNA work together and fund a study regarding the deaths of wrestlers, including talking to the coroners who pulled these overly enlarged hearts out of one person or another, to find what consistent patterns we can find, what caused them, and most importantly, what can be doing to avoid it as much as possible in the future. Don't come up with "well, they didn't die under our watch," when the habits that killed them were done under your watch. Don't send out spineless wrestlers who claim Eddy Guerrero's problems were all in WCW, or, like Steve Blackman, who will say he's seen massive steroid use in wrestling, but only in Stampede Wrestling, never in WWF. We all know by the time their bodies expired from those habits many were in their 40s, and no longer under contract. Does anyone realize how bad that comes across to any thinking person?

Marc Mero is facing a heart valve replacement. It may or may not have been due to the steps he took to be a pro wrestler. Konnan is facing a kidney replacement, and nearly died last year. That was due to the steps he took both to be and to stay a pro wrestler. I knew Konnan at 25, and when it came to this issue, he was a far more intelligent version of Mr. Kennedy. For all I know, he may have gone on TV in Mexico and said he never did steroids. But he took steroids to be a star. He took pain pills to keep up the schedule. Made big money and didn't particularly think that much of the guys who wanted to make money who were doing the same things to be like him, and would never make a dime. He thought he was invincible and at 28, once told me and Art Barr that he didn't care if he lived past 35, because he was living a great life and we will all die of something. Some people get old and senile. Some people get older and wiser and learn. And I remember Art saying he had a three-year-old and he wanted to be there to watch him grow up. And I remember talking to the coroner several times after Art died and he was stumped. He couldn't figure out what killed him. Contrary to popular belief, he didn't have anywhere close to enough pain medication in him to be fatal, although he did have some. The coroner told me, "If I didn't know any better, his insides look exactly like a teenager from Washington who died from steroids." And then he said, "But that's impossible, because his father and brother told me that Art never took steroids."

With the benefit of the same hindsight, when today's wrestlers are on the scrap heap, and the company is no longer paying for their operations even though their health problems continue or worsen, many of them, facing mounting medical bills that kill your savings even if you were prudent during their career, will go on talk shows after the next death. And a whole new group of 30-year-old wrestlers who either don't know history or are able to somehow ignore it, and 48-year-old producers who actually do have full benefits packages that the rest of their brethren don't have, or fathers and uncles of guys wanting to break in who don't want to ire Stephanie McMahon and HHH, will kiss ass and claim those people were never really stars, are bitter, old and that there is no problem because they haven't even been in a locker room in eight years, and never address the guy who was in the locker room in the past week saying the same thing. And they'll try and tell people it's not the same business it was even two years ago.

And I'll save this column and write it again. It's not like I haven't written it 30 times before.

Wrestling should be a great industry. It should put smiles on faces. Hell, 80% of the time I've watched Fit Finlay wrestle this past year has been fun. And to me, who may know the industry a little better, by and large, my opinion is it is filled with sheep, cowards and people who in the end are so afraid of what they deep down know is the truth that they will not-so-gladly sacrifice families. In the end, they are avoiding what they think they are doing, which is actually protecting their business.

The man speaks the truth!

nacho libre

woooo232 wrote:

Dave Meltzer at wrestlingobserver.com:



The man speaks the truth!

Brilliant article.

Vince135792003

Fantastic piece by Meltzer. Wrestlings needs people like him.

Mr.Nice Guy

Anyone else feeling really bitter about professional wrestling right now? I missed all three shows this week and I don't have any desire to see any of them.

Maybe it's a hangover from the Benoit thing or this whole steroids controversy but for the first time in years I have no desire whatsoever to watch any more.

The Sparrow

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Anyone else feeling really bitter about professional wrestling right now? I missed all three shows this week and I don't have any desire to see any of them.

Maybe it's a hangover from the Benoit thing or this whole steroids controversy but for the first time in years I have no desire whatsoever to watch any more.

Yup. I think I`m just annoyed at wrestlers... not necessarily about the Benoit thing but about what seems like either a complete lack of intelligence or a willingness to lie about the issues affecting the industry.

nacho libre

source Wrestling Observer:

Vince McMahon told the talent backstage before the 6/26 SmackDown/ECW tapings, the day after word came out about the Benoit tragedy, that the Benoit deal was behind them and they should go back to what they were doing and move on.

if that's true the guy's a sociopath. seriously, that is callous.

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Anyone else feeling really bitter about professional wrestling right now? I missed all three shows this week and I don't have any desire to see any of them.

Maybe it's a hangover from the Benoit thing or this whole steroids controversy but for the first time in years I have no desire whatsoever to watch any more.

I've felt a bit apathetic towards WWE alright, I only half watched Raw though, the only decent thing was the Orton/Dusty segment, so there isn't much to be excited about anyway

I suppose personally I often watch a good bit of Japanese wrestling and some of my favourite matches are from Japanese promotions. It's very rare that someone would be on steroids in Japan, all these wrestling deaths are basically an American problem, it doesn't happen in Japan or Mexico. So in my mind I know that you can have fantastic wrestling without the steroids and the deaths, and that's why I won't stop loving wrestling. I really wish WWE would do something to help the wrestlers though

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote:

I've felt a bit apathetic towards WWE alright, I only half watched Raw though, the only decent thing was the Orton/Dusty segment, so there isn't much to be excited about anyway

I suppose personally I often watch a good bit of Japanese wrestling and some of my favourite matches are from Japanese promotions. It's very rare that someone would be on steroids in Japan, all these wrestling deaths are basically an American problem, it doesn't happen in Japan or Mexico. So in my mind I know that you can have fantastic wrestling without the steroids and the deaths, and that's why I won't stop loving wrestling. I really wish WWE would do something to help the wrestlers though

I think as well the fact that Raw was so good at the start of the year is a factor as the current shows are so weak in comparison.

Vince135792003

Nancy Grace with Bryan, Finlay,Grunges widow, and Mero:

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83u0PULb2C4

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvot5PVkVdU

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip2CNMHfxbM

Fozzy

A lot of the stuff Finlay said just wasn't true, like saying that none of the wrestlers on that list (excluding the five who died while in WWE) had worked for WWE for at least 5 years when they died. Crash Holly's name had scrolled up before he said that. But that list does have guys listed who died in car crashes and from natural causes. Even Mero had Earthquake listed, that guy never took drugs or steroids, wrestling can't be blamed for his death. I don't think the sensationalism is needed because the truth is bad enough

You've got to wonder about wrestlers getting time off too. It was reported that Shawn Michaels needed knee surgery early last year, but he stuck around for DX then. Was that his own choice or did WWE pressure him into it? The same could be asked about Mysterio. And it's obviously true in the case of Joey Mercury that he was pushed back on tv too soon which drove him back to painkillers, which eventually he got fired for

The Sparrow

Fozzy wrote:

You've got to wonder about wrestlers getting time off too. It was reported that Shawn Michaels needed knee surgery early last year, but he stuck around for DX then. Was that his own choice or did WWE pressure him into it? The same could be asked about Mysterio. And it's obviously true in the case of Joey Mercury that he was pushed back on tv too soon which drove him back to painkillers, which eventually he got fired for

I think its a combination of both... WWE may be willing to give you time off, but for guys like Mysterio and Mercury they feel that they have to make hay while the sun shines. For instance if WWE had granted Mysterio time off before his world title run if he needed it and he had taken it what would he have came back as? Just another guy on the roster. He knew that it was his time and that if he took time off (while granted by WWE) he may never get a shot like this again. So I think that even if WWE say that they will give you time off whenever, they know that guys will feel inherent pressure not to take that time off because of the way the company is organised.

I mean one of the things that came out about Benoit was that he was fearful of his job after being sent to ECW and that may or may not have contributed to his problems... If guys like Chris Benoit are fearful of their spots what does that say about the general atmosphere in that locker room?!

RebelRockChick

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Anyone else feeling really bitter about professional wrestling right now? I missed all three shows this week and I don't have any desire to see any of them.

Maybe it's a hangover from the Benoit thing or this whole steroids controversy but for the first time in years I have no desire whatsoever to watch any more.

I have only watched about half of Raw two weeks ago and saw about one match on Smackdown this week, I just don't feel interested....I think for my it is because the media coverage of the Benoit situation and all the news and opinions that came out afterwards...

I'll probably end up watching the shows this week just because of the upcoming ppv.

Vince135792003

Wrestling Observer Live with Lance Storm and Frankie Kazarian:

http://download.yousendit.com/12B10F2653A14C81

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote:

Wrestling Observer Live with Lance Storm and Frankie Kazarian:

http://download.yousendit.com/12B10F2653A14C81

Fair play, cheers!

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote:

Wrestling Observer Live with Lance Storm and Frankie Kazarian:

http://download.yousendit.com/12B10F2653A14C81

Thanks, I forgot to listen to it last night. TNA SPOILER ALERT! Dave gave the result of the first match from Victory Road, I'd already watched it though. I'll give the rest a listen later

estebancambias

Metzler sucks.

The Sparrow

estebancambias wrote:

Metzler sucks.

based on what??

gm1984

This post has been deleted.

fatal

estebancambias wrote:

Metzler sucks.

based on???????
If WWE had guys like meltzer running the show wrestling would certainly not be in as bad a shape as it is now.
If you want to post two worded replies to get your post count up at least sound clever by giving reasons

Fozzy

There's already a book in the works about the Benoit tragedy: http://www.pwtorch.com/artman/publish/article_20985.shtml. Irv Muchnick is writing it, he's written a book about the dark and controversial side of wrestling before called Wrestling Babylon which is meant to be good, so I think he'll do it justice and he won't just be out for some quick money

Superstar Billy Graham has responded to Mr Kennedy saying that he shouldn't be blaming wrestling for his bad health (which he actually didn't): http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=20177

Fozzy

The results of the toxicology tests done on Chris Benoit will be made public on Tuesday at 7:30pm Ireland time. I would imagine that there's a very high likelihood that steroids will show up, which should cause WWE to change their stance in some way hopefully. It's also very likely that alcohol will show up, which the media will probably ignore like they already have. Painkillers will probably show up too, they should be focused on just as much as steroids I think, because surely they're a bigger cause for concern?

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

The results of the toxicology tests done on Chris Benoit will be made public on Tuesday at 7:30pm Ireland time. I would imagine that there's a very high likelihood that steroids will show up, which should cause WWE to change their stance in some way hopefully. It's also very likely that alcohol will show up, which the media will probably ignore like they already have. Painkillers will probably show up too, they should be focused on just as much as steroids I think, because surely they're a bigger cause for concern?

I think we have to wait but like its been said so many times, its not just one thing. Someone described it as the "wrestling cocktail" that needs to be addressed.

The WWE will take some sort of a hammering one would assume. Maybe the media will go after them on 1 issue which wouldn't be necessarily fair or accurate. I won't be shedding any tears for the WWE though.

After nearly 3 weeks since this has happened, no one from the WWE has come out and talked about the issues and some solutions that could be implemented. Its all been deny, deny deny with lies thrown in too.


Just slightly off topic, this is actually one situation where it helps TNA that they are so under the radar. They have a responsibility too and unlike the WWE they don't even have a policy.

There has been many instances (like Kurt Angle) over the years where a guy would get fired for some health issue by one wrestling company and a week later they'd end up on another wrestling companys show. Thats not a healthy situation either.

RebelRockChick

Was just reading this interview with Angle:

The Times and Democrat has an interview up with TNA World Champion Kurt Angle where he comments for the first time on the Chris Benoit tragedy, TNA's schedule vs. WWE's schedule and more. Here are some highlights:

On wrestling companies looking at their wrestlers:
"Well, I think the one thing WWE and TNA needs to do is step back and take a look and listen to the wrestlers. This is not WWE’s fault and this is not Vince McMahon’s fault. Chris Benoit was responsible for his own actions. Chris chose his own career. He chose to stick with the WWE when I am sure he could have went anywhere else, whether it be in Japan or TNA. But, Chris stuck to go with the grind."

On leaving WWE and getting off a full-time schedule:
"I chose to quit WWE. Vince McMahon wanted me to go full time, and we were butting heads. I felt I put in enough time and all the effort I could to wrestle 250 or 300 days per year, and I felt like I couldn’t do that any longer. Vince, on the other hand, with the amount of money (I was the highest paid individual last year) said I should go full-time. He needed me for all the house shows, TV -- everything."

On his jump to TNA and a smaller schedule:
"I just did not have enough in me to continue to go 300 days per year. I felt it would have gotten to the point where I would have gotten exhausted, and I probably wouldn’t be alive today. I decided to go with TNA, and they monitor me with doctors and keep me in 10 or less matches per month. So, they are keeping me alive and well and wrestling, and I appreciate that."

On how grueling a wrestling schedule can be:
"There is no sport more brutal. It is a year-round sport, and not even MMA is like that. Heck, those guys fight two or three times per year, and they get their downtime. There is nothing more grueling, and it comes to a point, for me it took six and a half years before I said, ‘Okay, I’m done.’ I felt like I wanted to be a part of a program where someone actually cared about my health."

On the last time he spoke with Chris Benoit:
"I talked to Chris, and he did not want to continue to wrestle 250 days per year. He wanted to wrestle a lot less. He was getting beat up, and I think in the end that started to get to him."

ShawnRaven

For the first time in the guts of a year, Angle has said something that actually made sense!

VR!

Fozzy

The press conference can be viewed live here: http://media.myfoxatlanta.com/live/

Starts in 2 minutes

The Sparrow

Testosterone seems to be the only thing they found in Benoit during the toxicology reports. I think, if my understanding was right, that the levels found in Benoit were 59:1 which a lot higher than the 10:1 ratio that would result in a fail of the WWE wellness policy.

Also Daniel was supposedly sedated with Zanex before he was murdered.

Fozzy

So here's what the doctor said:

Nancy had 120mg/l of hydrocodone in her body and traces of hydromorphone at therapeutic levels, which means they were used for normal prescription use. There was a 23mg/l level of xanax in her body which is also normal. There was a .184 blood alcohol level which they believe was probably due to decomposition of her body and not any consumption of alcohol. They say the levels of painkillers are normal given her surgery history

Daniel had a 110mg/l level of xanax, which is an elevated level and not normally given to kids. They believe that he was sedated at the time of his death. They couldn't test for human growth hormone or steroids because of a lack of urine and they found no evidence to suggest that he had Fragile X Syndrome

Chris had a 50mg/l level of xanax and a 45mg/l level of hydrocodone which are normal for therapeutic use. They're painkillers and the doctor says those levels would be normal for someone in chronic pain

Chris only tested positive for one steroid and that was testosterone, which was at a 207mg/l level in his urine. They say he used it within a short period before he died. No other steroids at all. No evidence of GHB

The reporters were trying to get some answers about if the levels of steroids in Chris could have changed his behaviour and the doctor said that there is no medical evidence to suggest that this would change your behaviour. Seemed like he was basically saying "roid rage" hasn't been proven to actually exist

Seems like the only things we can take from this is that Chris had sedated Daniel before he killed him, which suggests some level of compassion (as little as is possible given what happened) and that steroids don't seem to be as big an issue in this as the media make it out to be

tuxy

Fozzy wrote:

There was a .184 blood alcohol level which they believe was probably due to decomposition of her body and not any consumption of alcohol.

He didn't say probably he said it was impossible to tell.

Fozzy wrote:

Chris had a 50mg/l level of xanax and a 45mg/l level of hydrocodone which are normal for therapeutic use. They're painkillers

hydrocodone is a painkiller, xanax is not a painkiller it is a sedative with mussel relaxing properties.

Fozzy

The media really do just report what they want to report. The whole idea of what the doctor was saying was that the only steroid they found was testosterone, and that that is usually used in hormone replacement therapy rather than in bodybuilding. But one look at Google News shows all the headlines reading "Steroids Found in Wrestler's Body". As my mate just said it me, "is it impossible for a pro wrestler to be depressed and kill someone without anger?"

I understand that steroids should be a big issue in the story about wrestling, but they really don't seem to be a big issue when it comes to Benoit. Maybe I'm missing something, but I think the media are just doing a horrible job covering this

Fozzy

tuxy wrote:

He didn't say probably he said it was impossible to tell.

My apologies if I misheard him, but I thought he said later on that it was probably due to decomposition. Maybe it was just the tone of his speech as he said "it was impossible to tell" that made me think that

tuxy wrote:

hydrocodone is a painkiller, xanax is not a painkiller it is a sedative with mussel relaxing properties.

An anti-anxiety drug he said, he did mention it when asked about any muscle relaxants being found