All Benoit Discussion In Here

Fozzy

woooo232 wrote:

I think, if my understanding was right, that the levels found in Benoit were 59:1 which a lot higher than the 10:1 ratio that would result in a fail of the WWE wellness policy.

The 10:1 is the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. I don't think anything was mentioned about epitestosterone though, so I don't think you can figure out the levels. 59:1 seems a bit impossible to me though

EDIT: Oh, I just read on Figure 4 that it was 59:1, I missed that bit. That seems crazy high, I've heard of sportspeople being caught with 11:1 before, I thought that was high enough. Maybe he just took a load shortly before he died

The Sparrow

Fozzy wrote:

The 10:1 is the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. I don't think anything was mentioned about epitestosterone though, so I don't think you can figure out the levels. 59:1 seems a bit impossible to me though

EDIT: Oh, I just read on Figure 4 that it was 59:1, I missed that bit. That seems crazy high, I've heard of sportspeople being caught with 11:1 before, I thought that was high enough. Maybe he just took a load shortly before he died

Yeah I just kind of put two and two together and came up with 59! The guy mentioned something about epitesosterone and testosterone and mentioned the figure 59 so I assumed he meant a 59:1 ratio. But he never explicitly said that.

Actually in terms of fails, 59:1 is not crazy huge. When Johnnie Morton failed a test after the K-1 show in the LA Coliseum I think his levels were about 83:1 and Royce Gracie's levels were something similar.

In case anyone doesnt understand (and I`m not sure that I do fully!) a normal person has a ratio of 1:1 testosterone to epitestosterone and in the Olympics you fail if your ratio is 6:1 or above. Under the WWE wellness policy you automaticallly fail if your levels are above a 10:1 ratio but they supposedly investigate if you are above 4:1. However even a fail can be ignored if you present a valid prescription from a doctor to explain teh levels.

Obviously the Benoit ratio of 59:1 is way above the fail rate, but as we allegedly know from the federal indictments against Dr. Astin, he was being supplied with testosterone in huge quantities by his doctor which would explain how he passed the wellness policy tests. Obviously the ethics of the whole wellness test and this huge loophole is a whole different story...

The Sparrow

From f4wonline.com:

TMZ.com just published the following:

The WWE has issued the following statement concerning the toxicology results on in the Chris Benoit case:

WWE understands that the toxicology reports for Chris Benoit indicate that he tested positive for testosterone and negative for anabolic steroids. On Mr. Benoit's last drug test in April 2007 administered by Aegis Labs, he tested negative for anabolic steroids and for testosterone. Given the toxicology report of GBI released today, it would appear that Mr. Benoit took testosterone sometime after his April 2007 test and the time he died. WWE understands that his dealings with Dr. Astin are currently being investigated, and WWE has no knowledge of whether Dr. Astin prescribed testosterone for Mr. Benoit at some point after the April 2007 tests.

For over 20 years, the WWE has been demonstrating our concern for the well being of our contracted athletes, instituting drug testing in 1987 leading up to our current Wellness Program which began on February 27, 2006, administered by Dr. David L. Black of Aegis Sciences Corporation - one of the world's foremost drug testing authorities.

We believe our Wellness Program is at the very least comparable to those of professional sports and is a program that will benefit WWE Superstars for generations to come.

Fozzy

Ah yeah, I remember what it is now. Testosterone is produced by the body and can be taken into the body as well. Epitestosterone is produced only by the body. Benoit was a known user of steroids in the past, so that would more than likely have lowered his epitestosterone levels below that of a normal person. So, it may not be that he took a crazy amount of supplemental testosterone, just that he had very low levels of natural epitestosterone

That is why there is a loophole in the WWE wellness policy, as a past steroid user taking required testosterone supplements would fail the test every time otherwise. There may be a problem with doctors prescribing wrestlers testosterone when there actually isn't a need for it though

fatal

Something tells me that although the toxicology results mentioned that no anabolic steroids were found in Chris's body,we are still going to hear time and time again that the murders and suicide were due to roid rage.If so this could be the first case of roid rage where one of the victim was sedated before murdered :rolleyes:

The Sparrow

But it can`t be replacement therapy if its bumping your levels up to 59:1!!

That really is the point... replacement therapy should be boosting your levels from very low up to a normal level of around 1:1. So really the WWE is full of crap. Who ever heard of a proper doctor prescribing replacement therapy that boosts your levels up 59 times higher than an average person?!

fatal

Superstar billy graham earlier commented on his website about what Mr Kennedy said about him on his website.
Here it is:

Ken Kennedy's quote about me, posted on his web site on 7-12-07



"Unfortunately as much as I respect the man, Superstar Billy Graham is ultimately responsible for the health problems he suffers from right now because of the choices he made in his career. I find it both sad and humorous that the man who many say is largely responsible for starting the "Steroid craze " in pro wrestling is now pointing the finger at the industry rather than blaming himself."


Superstar Billy Grahams response.


I also find it sad and humorous as well, that the extremely talented Mr. Kennedy would post on his website remarks about me that are totally false in content, and should not rush to judgment without double checking his source of information. I invite him to attain the transcript of The Dan Abrams Show from MSNBC for Monday, July 9. That transcript will read almost word for word my following recollection of my opening statements on that show and I quote myself, "You can no more blame Vince McMahon or the WWE for the actions of one Mr. Benoit, than you could blame the San Francisco Giants baseball team for the current steroid user Barry Bonds if he had some sort of a rage, went home and exterminated his entire family and himself. Vince McMahon is not a baby sitter nor a psychiatrist and is not responsible the actions of his employees in the privacy of their own homes. You cannot blame pro-wrestling for killing your family, cheating on your wife or doing drugs." I have made similar opening statements on the FOX news network on the Hannity and Colmes show two weeks ago, and other shows as well. I also have made it clear that I started steroids in 1966, well before I began my career in the WWE. I do not blame anyone but myself for my health woes and have put the blame squarely on my choice to take steroids in extremely large quantities and for a very prolonged period of time. In closing I would like to remind Ken that during my book tour last year and only a few months after my dear friend Eddie Gurerros passing, back stage at a raw taping I encouraged Mr. Kennedy to never resort to steroids to enhance his career, as he has far to much natural God given talent. That talent is called "CHARISMA" and I told him that I felt he had the same potential communication skills as a Rick Flair and that he could be the next Roddy Piper. I also told him it was not my physique that drew sellout crowds across the country but my promo ability, just like Dusty Rhodes, Jesse Ventura and Rick Flair to name a few. I have great respect for Ken and until now he also had great respect for me. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue with him in a public forum since his commentary concerning me was done for the general public consumption. I know that Mr.Kennedy is held in high regards by the McMahon's as well as by the majority of the WWE talent. I do think that Ken would be better served if he did his homework before posting inaccurate and inflammatory remarks about Superstar Billy Graham on his website that can be sent around the world with the simple click of a mouse.

Respectfully,

Billy Graham

The Sparrow

fatal wrote:

Superstar billy graham earlier commented on his website about what Mr Kennedy said about him on his website.
Here it is:

Fozzy beat you to the punch yesterday!

fatal

woooo232 wrote:

Fozzy beat you to the punch yesterday!

apologies.I didn't see that post by fozzy

Fozzy

woooo232 wrote:

But it can`t be replacement therapy if its bumping your levels up to 59:1!!

That really is the point... replacement therapy should be boosting your levels from very low up to a normal level of around 1:1. So really the WWE is full of crap. Who ever heard of a proper doctor prescribing replacement therapy that boosts your levels up 59 times higher than an average person?!

No, that's not how it works. The second number in the 1:1 is the epitestosterone. If your body is producing low levels of testosterone then your epitestosterone will be very low. By taking supplemental testosterone you will be boosting the first number of the ratio, which is the testosterone. The amount of epitestosterone will not change as it can only be produced by your body. This means that the ratio will be much bigger

Look at it this way: a 60 year old man with low natural testosterone levels might take supplemental testosterone to get him up to a normal total level. A healthy 20 year old man could have the exact same amount of total testosterone, but as his body is producing it naturally he would have a lower testosterone/epitestosterone than the older man. The old man could have a 20:1 ratio, but it wouldn't mean that his overall levels are huge, just that he takes a lot more testosterone than his body actually produces itself

The Sparrow

Fozzy wrote:

No, that's not how it works. The second number in the 1:1 is the epitestosterone. If your body is producing low levels of testosterone then your epitestosterone will be very low. By taking supplemental testosterone you will be boosting the first number of the ratio, which is the testosterone. The amount of epitestosterone will not change as it can only be produced by your body. This means that the ratio will be much bigger

Look at it this way: a 60 year old man with low natural testosterone levels might take supplemental testosterone to get him up to a normal total level. A healthy 20 year old man could have the exact same amount of total testosterone, but as his body is producing it naturally he would have a lower testosterone/epitestosterone than the older man. The old man could have a 20:1 ratio, but it wouldn't mean that his overall levels are huge, just that he takes a lot more testosterone than his body actually produces itself

oh ok fair enough... I was wondering why i suddenly had that revelation and nobody else had!

Vince135792003

Wade Keller made the point that the type of steroids prescribed for Benoit by Astin would disappear from the body within 48 hours. Whatever thats worth I just thought I'd add.

More news from the Torch:

WWE Raw once again drew the lowest summer rating in over nine years, and the lowest live non-holiday rating in over 20 months once again - a 3.37 rating (rounded up to 3.4).

Tonight on Nancy Grace will be Dr. David Black, who heads the WWE drug testing program, lawyer Jerry McDevitt, Marc Mero, Konnan, Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez.

Fozzy

Fox News said they'll have two WWE wrestlers on their show tonight, don't know who though

The Sparrow

Ok just listened to Figure Four Daily (www.f4wonline.com) with Bryan Alvarez who made an excellent point about the WWE statement. Basically when WWE released a statement today saying that no steroids were found in Benoits system, it was complete NONSENSE!!! The reason they say that is because they don`t consider testosterone a steroid.

But the DEA does consider testosterone an anabolic steroid. Its basicallly semantic nonsense. Its the same argument that Dr. Astin used when he claimed that he wasnt prescribing Benoit anababolic steroids even though the Federal indictments claim he was prescribing 10 months of steroids every 3-4 weeks.

In reality, WWE are unbelievable liars. I don`t really wanna hear anyone else claim that WWE are being unfairly treated by the press over the steroid/ roid rage issue when WWE released a deliberately misleading statement minutes after the toxicology reports were released. I really hope that somebody on Nancy Grace tonight nails them about this. Can you imagine any other publicly traded company acting like this? Basically they are trying to work everybody!:eek:

The Sparrow

Fozzy wrote:

Fox News said they'll have two WWE wrestlers on their show tonight, don't know who though

Superstar Billy Graham is one of them I think... I read somewhere that he is scheduled for Bill O'Reilly tonight.

Vince135792003

Just to clarify what Woo said, Zach Arnold made a post on the figure four board which went as follows:

This is Dr. Black on 60 Minutes II in 2005 with Anderson Cooper. Black was one of the creators of the NFL's drug-testing policy in the 1980s.

Quote:
Cooper: Offensive lineman Todd Steussie, 6-foot-6, 320 pounds, an NFL veteran and two-time pro bowler. Out of 190 games, he's missed only one because of injury, a remarkable record. His prescription record, however, tells a different story. Eleven prescriptions of testosterone creme over an eight-month period.

Cooper: "Is testosterone a steroid?"

Black: "Yes. Testosterone is the, ah, original base chemical, or the starting chemical for all the anabolic steroids.

Cooper: "Are NFL players allowed to take testosterone?"

Black: "Ah, no."


So, why is this important? On Bryan's audio show today, he stated that WWE is considering testosterone to be different than anabolic steroids. However, Dr. Black is on-the-record as saying that testosterone is the original base chemical of anabolic steroids.

Now, look at what WWE said in their statement today:

Quote:
On Mr. Benoit's last drug test in April 2007 administered by Aegis Labs, he tested negative for anabolic steroids and for testosterone.


How can you test negative for anabolic steroids if, as Dr. Black stated on-the-record in 2005, that testosterone is an original chemical base for anabolic steroids?

Fozzy

woooo232 wrote:

Superstar Billy Graham is one of them I think... I read somewhere that he is scheduled for Bill O'Reilly tonight.

The bit I read said that some lad called Doug Evans will have two WWE wrestlers on whatever show it is. I don't know what way Fox works, it might just be some Atlanta affiliate, but it's someone other than the Superstar

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote:

Just to clarify what Woo said, Zach Arnold made a post on the figure four board which went as follows:

Somebody should email that to Nancy Grace!

Fozzy

The WWE statement says that he tested negative for testosterone too. Am I missing something? They didn't try to say that testosterone isn't an anabolic steroid, they just said that he was negative for testosterone and negative for anabolic steroids

Vince135792003

For me you can go into the nitty gritty of the toxicology report and get totally lost. Honestly, its too complicated for me.

The bottom line is what more can be done to make wrestling a more healthy, risk free and ultimately better industry to work in and also support as a fan in 2007. And so far, all we've heard on that front by people in the WWE is silence and total denial.

Bruce Mitchell wrote a good piece for the Torch today:

The toxicology report on Chris Benoit revealed that there was elevated levels of the steroid testosterone in his body at the time of his death. So, what does that tell us that we already didn’t know?

Not much.

The truth is, many steroids and muscle enhancers, particularly Human Growth Hormone, do not stay long in the body and are difficult to detect after a certain period of time. Dr. Kris Sperry stated the testosterone in Benoit’s body had to have been injected within a short period of time before his death.

We already knew that Chris Benoit had a large amount of steroids in his house at the time of his death. We already knew that his physician, Dr. Astin (now under indictment), wrote prescriptions for Chris Benoit to receive a ten-month supply of steroids every three weeks. We knew that WWE said that Chris Benoit “passed” his last steroid test in April. We learned last night from the New York Times that WWE refused to release the results of the three tests Benoit took before that. We know that for many years Chris Benoit carried an enormous amount of muscle mass for his body frame.

We know that Dr. Astin prescribed Rey Mysterio, one of the two wrestlers most popular with children, an enormous amount of painkillers. We know that Vince McMahon met with WWE talent on July 2nd and told them to get off any illegal drugs they may be on and offered to send anyone to rehab who felt they needed to go. We know that other name wrestlers, including more WWE wrestlers, were patients of Dr. Astin.

We’ve seen several star wrestlers noticeably shrink in the two weeks since then. We’ve seen WWE continue to give promotional preference to wrestlers with big muscle “action figure” bodies.

We’ve seen the mainstream media start to understand that the forces that drove Chris Benoit to murder his wife and son and kill himself are many and that the demands of the pro wrestling have figured in many more deaths than just these three. We’ve seen that WWE hasn’t had answers for the mainstream media, powerful politicians or even some members of its own Board of Directors. We've seen that the aggressive talk that appeals to its fan base on wrestling shows falls flat in dealing with life and death issues in the real world media.

The forces for change in the pro wrestling business, the prospects for a congressional investigation and hearings, the athletic commissions who want to get back involved with pro wrestling, the wrestlers who want to change the way business is conducted in the industry are up and running now. The institutional resistance the wrestling business has to change, the idea that change is by definition “against the business” is also strong.

The question now is will the forces for change keep their attention level long enough and have the spine to force the legislation necessary to make the lives of pro wrestlers and their families better or will the patience and intransigence of business-as-always promoters win out again?

The Sparrow

Fozzy wrote:

The WWE statement says that he tested negative for testosterone too. Am I missing something? They didn't try to say that testosterone isn't an anabolic steroid, they just said that he was negative for testosterone and negative for anabolic steroids

Actually the WWE statement said:

"WWE understands that the toxicology reports for Chris Benoit indicate that he tested positive for testosterone and negative for anabolic steroids"

Which is complete nonsense! I just emailed Nancy Grace with these facts, you never know someone might read it!:)

Edit: Just noticed that the WWE statement also says:

"he tested negative for anabolic steroids and for testosterone." I assume it was a typo?!

The Sparrow

Meltzer, Alvarez, Konnan, Dr. David Black and WWE counsel Jerry McDevitt on Nancy grace last night:

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjt9cjqnXNY

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shHhAsK4H-o

Part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qucVq7dfyqs

Part 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ873StgCNc

Part 5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwWgHeT7WqU

AlphaMale 3OO

woooo232 wrote:

Actually the WWE statement said:

Which is complete nonsense! I just emailed Nancy Grace with these facts, you never know someone might read it!:)

Edit: Just noticed that the WWE statement also says:

"he tested negative for anabolic steroids and for testosterone." I assume it was a typo?!

Now why would you go and do a thing like that? shes a witch.

The Sparrow

forbesii wrote:

Now why would you go and do a thing like that? shes a witch.

I like Nancy Grace... Well she was obviously clueless on the first night but she has improved. I just think shes kinda funny, I guess its the mad accent! Anyway she wasnt hosting it and her replacement did a decent enough job. And the great Susan Ross was on again but she wasnt talking about putting doctors under lock or the Grunge! But she did say something along the lines of:

"Parents let your kids be cowboys but not professional wrestlers!"

Classic stuff!:D

Fozzy

Cena on Larry King last night:

- On the toxicology findings, Cena said the media have jumped to conclusions and that Benoit had “tested clean for anabolic steroids.”

- He said it’s “an unexplainable tragedy” and that people are still making assumptions on “an act that came out of left field” which he said is proven in the toxicology report. He added that even with elevated testosterone levels, Benoit tested clean for anabolic steroids.

- Larry King asked about how WWE are dealing with the tragedy. Cena said the wrestlers are doing the best they can to continue before adding that he was horrified that the media shifted blame from Benoit to the wrestling business and WWE.

- Cena, who always does an extremely good job of coming across as calm and professional, stressed that Benoit tested clean in April during a random test as part of WWE’s Wellness Program.

- On WWE’s testing policy, Cena said he’d been tested twice this year, and would be tested “at least” another two times this year. He said if he was to test positive, he’d be fined. A second failure would be a suspension, and a third would see him fired.

- Cena then went on to make some of the most ridiculous comments I’ve heard from a WWE wrestler over the past month. Larry King asked him about testosterone. Cena, who I believe is a certified physical trainer with a degree in physiology, said he had “no idea” what testosterone is or what it does. He said he wished he could help Larry with more information, but ended the interview by saying he had no idea about it. I find that extremely hard to believe, regardless of whether or not Cena himself is clean.

That last comment is ridiculous. Of course Cena knows what testosterone is. It really looks like WWE are just trying to keep the casual fan on their side by lying but anyone who knows a bit more about the situation can see what's really going on

Nancy Benoit's family will be filing a wrongful death lawsuit but their lawyer wouldn't say who the defendants will be on the tv last night. Could very well be WWE

I see the woman with the mouth is back on the Nancy Grace show. "Mothers, let your sons grow up to be cowboys but not wrestlers". I don't get it

shinzon

and in case anyone has forgotten, it was nancys and daniels funerals on saturday


JR's blog says it all more then i could express in words

---

For a week that has been so personally rewarding for the Ross family with the successful opening of J.R.’s Family Bar-B-Q Restaurant on Wednesday, spending Saturday traveling from Norman to Daytona Beach, Florida and back, was a unique way to end the week. “Unique” probably isn’t the word I’m looking for.

How about “heartbreaking”?

Knowing I had to get up at 3:30 a.m. to make a 6 a.m. departure meant little or no sleep Friday night. Even with two alarms set, it is hard for me to rest knowing that I could not miss the flight from OKC to Atlanta connecting into Daytona. As it was, I landed in Daytona at 12:20 p.m. and the services for Nancy and Daniel started at 1 p.m. I made it to the church with maybe 10 minutes to spare. But I did make it.

It was the least I could do to show my respect for two people for which I cared a great deal.

The media was strategically hovering outside the church to where one could not enter the facility under the normal, covered walkway during the heavy rain without walking by the reporters, who I realize have a job to do. They had questions with the first being something along the lines of “what about the steroid issue?” It wasn’t “what are your memories of Nancy and Daniel?” or “Is there anything you would like to say to the families?” It was the tired, “steroid” question.

This entire tragedy is about much more than alleged steroid abuse, especially on this day that I will carry with me for the rest of my days.

I guess it is another “one of those days” that can join the others already filed away, that I will never forget.

Sitting on the Delta plane here’s what I was thinking on the way from Oklahoma to Florida. I am a grandfather of two beautiful, healthy granddaughters. I love those two babies with all my heart and soul. I mentally found myself in the shoes of Nancy’s folks. Not only did they lose their daughter but they also lost, as I understand it, their ONLY grandchild.

Their ONLY grandchild.

I can’t even fathom how I would handle such a tragedy. If you are reading this and have young children, how would you handle burying them? Perhaps some of you have unfortunately had to endure this challenge in your life. If so, you have my most sincere condolences. Parents are not supposed to bury their own children as has been said over time and memorial. But parents burying a grandchild at the same is beyond description.

The service was reserved and classy. I loved the music. The structure of the service allowed for ample opportunities for one to reflect on the lives of Nancy and Daniel. Of course, Chris, too, crossed my mind during the service. How could he not? Daniel’s full name is Daniel Christopher Benoit and I read the little guy’s name over and over during the service. I thought of so many memories of the Benoit family especially at Wrestlemanias which has a “family reunion” feel for many of us who don’t see the talents’ spouses and their kids but a handful of times per year. I have literally seen Daniel grow up at Wrestlemania as Nancy would have the apple of her eye dressed to the “nines” in either a little tuxedo or a handsome suit. Indeed, Mom Nancy made her little boy a sharp dressed man. I loved it when they danced together! I can still close my eyes and hear the music and see their smiles.

Today, I needed to see those smiles. Today I needed to feel those good memories.

Hopefully today, Nancy’s family and many friends can start to “officially” heal. It’s time for all of us to heal as best we can and to attempt to move forward.

Watching Nancy’s Mom, Dad and Sister leave the service was incredibly touching. I should be more eloquent but writing this isn’t easy.

Saturday afternoon in Daytona, the media wanted to talk to me about “drugs” and the ills, perceived and real, of the wrestling business. Today was not the time. Today was a time of remembrance for the loved ones that have been lost and for paying our respect to a devastated family.

The wrestling business, like our lives, is far from perfect and many areas of it need to be addressed and improved upon. Perhaps this mission should be approached as if tomorrow was our first day on the job and we have the chance to start fresh and make things better for everyone who wants to play by the rules and to do the right things so the business will continue to thrive long after guys like me are nothing more than a fleeting memory of bygone days.

But Saturday, July 14 wasn’t about the business. It was about paying respect to a grieving family who need all the courage they can muster and all the prayers they can receive. Today. Please remember these folks in your prayers.

Tomorrow will be here soon enough.
J.R.

---

Shin

RebelRockChick

Anyone else see Chavo on Fox News last night? He was just basically talking about the last phonecall he had with Benoit, the text messages he recieved etc.

Fozzy

Chavo on Fox: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=IT8qlbXYyJQ

Lanny Poffo and Lex "Lugar" on Hannity and Colmes: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=OwBe6azOUco The doctor here differentiates between testosterone and anabolic steroids, so it's not only WWE doing that. He also says that he thinks it's unlikely that all the alcohol found in Nancy was due to decomposition. Luger says that he cheated drug tests, at least I think that's what he meant

ShawnRaven

Luger talking on the subject of anabolic steroids. Isn't this the guy who was busted with a load of bags of pills in his house the day Miss Elizabeth's body was removed?

If anyone knows how to cheat a drug test, it would definitely be him!
VR!

D-FENS

validreasoning! wrote:

Luger talking on the subject of anabolic steroids. Isn't this the guy who was busted with a load of bags of pills in his house the day Miss Elizabeth's body was removed?

If anyone knows how to cheat a drug test, it would definitely be him!
VR!

Definitely a case of the pot calling kettle.
I have to say, i can't help thinking Luger's MO here is to take a bit of the heat of himself, as he was bad, but he never sunk to the level of Benoit.
But, having said that, he does appear to have turned over a new leaf (He's certainly looks better than he did at the WWA show in the point a few years ago, jesus he needed to hang onto the ropes to keep himself upright at that)

Fozzy

http://www.stormwrestling.com/072007.html

Lance Storm is pissed off. He's annoyed that Marc Mero said on tv that he had to take steroids and had to take painkillers to succeed in wrestling. Lance says that it's that attitude that causes the drug problem

nacho libre

good point about the list too. it will be very interesting to see what Mero says in response to this blog.

Dragan

I'm not suprised that people are drawing a line between "testosterone" and "anabolic steroids".

There is a massive, massive difference between the two. Give me a test that looks a test/epitest ratio and there is a good chance i will fail whatever the standard is. I'm an in my prime male with a diet and excercise routine specifically targeted at driving my test through the roof.... i have no doubt my levels are high.

Test for anabolics however and i will be clean as a whistle.

Vince135792003

From ESPN:

McMahon asked by congressional committee to hand over records

By Shaun Assael
ESPN The Magazine

Updated: July 27, 2007, 4:16 PM ET

In a move that significantly widens the impact of wrestler Chris Benoit's murder-suicide case, two congressmen who opened steroid hearings into Major League Baseball have requested that World Wrestling Entertainment provide records pertaining to the WWE's testing policies and practices.

In a three-page letter dated Friday, Rep. Henry Waxman, the chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Tom Davis, its ranking minority member, asked WWE to provide a series of documents intended to give the committee and its investigation a detailed look at WWE's drug-testing policy, including information about the results of performance-enhancing drug tests on pro wrestlers.

"The tragic deaths of World Wrestling Entertainment star Chris Benoit and his family have raised questions about reports of widespread use of steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs by professional wrestlers," the congressmen wrote.

"These allegations -- which include first-hand reports of steroid use by prominent former wrestlers -- have swirled around the WWE for over a decade. Investigations by journalists have described a culture of performance-enhancing drug use in professional wrestling, high fatality rates among young professional wrestlers, and an inability or unwillingness of WWE to address these problems."

The letter from Waxman and Davis described WWE wrestlers as "multimedia stars that have an influence on the behavior and attitudes of the nation's youth."

"WWE has a responsibility to do everything possible to eliminate the use of performance-enhancing drugs -- or the perception of such use -- by its wrestlers."

The records request is wide ranging, and parallels what was asked of Major League Baseball. It seeks a list of drugs covered by its policies; the entity that conducts its drug testing; the number of tests it conducts annually; the protocols followed after a positive test; and the procedures for awarding exemptions.

It also wants hard figures about the number of tests that the WWE conducts each year; the numbers of wrestlers tested; positive results for each specific drug; and the number of positive tests for which wrestlers were penalized.

In an attempt to investigate the WWE's reaction to past scandals, the committee is also seeking "the results of any investigations prepared [by the company] regarding the deaths, injuries, or illnesses of current or former professional wrestlers that may have been related to the use of steroids."

It adds to the list "all communications between [the company] and outside entities including communications with health care professionals or law enforcement authorities, regarding allegations of drug use by wrestlers."

WWE chairman Vince McMahon was given until Aug. 24 to comply. A spokesman for the company had not seen the letter when called for comment Friday afternoon.

The WWE instituted its current drug testing policy after the November 2005 death of Benoit's best friend, Eddie Guerrero, 38, who was found dead in a hotel room in Minneapolis. A subsequent autopsy showed heart disease. Because steroids cause the heart to work harder to pump blood to an enlarged physique, they have been associated with arterial wear and tear.

The WWE has insisted that it randomly tests its 180 athletes at least four times a year. But its program has been criticized for being too employee-friendly. In a recent interview with the New York Times, David Black, the company's hired drug testing administrator, said: "The intention is not to punish, but to get them [the wrestlers] to engage in a different lifestyle.''

In a June 28 interview on the Today show, McMahon defended his employees, saying: "Everyone that's in this organization, to my knowledge, is well-adjusted, family people. They go to work like everybody else, except their definition of what their job is, is to put a smile on somebody's face. They're performers and they do their jobs very, very well."

The congressional request is the most direct approach on the WWE since 1994, when federal prosecutors charged McMahon with steroid distribution. A jury found him not guilty. In the years since, McMahon has regained widespread respectability, selling shares in the WWE to the public and luring celebrities like Donald Trump to his shows. But the double murder-suicide in late-June involving Benoit, one of his company¹s biggest stars, has refocused attention on the issue of wrestler deaths and steroid use.

Authorities have said Benoit's body was found to have 10 times the normal level of testosterone, as well as amounts of the anti-anxiety drug Xanax and the painkiller hydrocodone, but there has been no evidence that steroids played a role in the deaths of Benoit's wife, Nancy, and 7-year-old son, Daniel. Georgia's top medical examiner said the testosterone, a synthetic version, appeared to have been injected shortly before Benoit died. He hanged himself in the basement gym of his suburban Atlanta home.

Ph3n0m

Fozzy wrote:

I see the woman with the mouth is back on the Nancy Grace show. "Mothers, let your sons grow up to be cowboys but not wrestlers". I don't get it

There are plenty of old cowboys still alive today, not that many old wrestlers

Double C

Fozzy wrote:

I see the woman with the mouth is back on the Nancy Grace show. "Mothers, let your sons grow up to be cowboys but not wrestlers". I don't get it.

Haha, you don't play GTA San Andreas then? There's a song on the country music station called "Mama's, dont let your babies grow up to be cowboys". I found that quite amusing when I saw it on Nancy Grace!

Fozzy

Ah yeah, I know it now that you mention it! I just saw a clip of her talking about Lindsay Lohan - "Linsay Lo is caught on blow, to jail she must go". Original gimmick anyway

Dragan wrote:

There is a massive, massive difference between the two. Give me a test that looks a test/epitest ratio and there is a good chance i will fail whatever the standard is. I'm an in my prime male with a diet and excercise routine specifically targeted at driving my test through the roof.... i have no doubt my levels are high.

There's actually a good chance that you'd pass the ratio test. If you're producing high levels of testosterone then you're more than likely producing high levels of epitestosterone, meaning that your overall levels may be high but the ratio would still be normal

HorseRadish

From Wrestlezone.com:

It appears the WWE SummerSlam Anthology DVD set, which was already in production, appears to be on hold for the time being. According to reports, WWE is currently trying to decide how older footage of Chris Benoit will be utilized, if at all, on future WWE DVD releases from the company including this big SummerSlam DVD release. We hope to have more on this situation soon.

ShawnRaven

Slightly off topic, but where did the Survivor Series anthology disappear to? the first one happened before the first Royal Rumble and Summerslam?

VR!

Vince135792003

Dave Meltzer on ESPN for an hour: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?context=podcast&id=2958922

One of the best audio shows on wrestling I've heard this year.

The Sparrow

Vince135792003 wrote:

Dave Meltzer on ESPN for an hour: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?context=podcast&id=2958922

One of the best audio shows on wrestling I've heard this year.

good find... 45 mins of Meltzer goodness!

Fozzy

Thanks for reminding me, I started listening to this the other day but I never got round to finishing it

Vince135792003

Big long article in the Washington post today on the state of pro-wrestling focusing on Chris Benoit and Eddie Guererro. Its sad but definitely worth the read. An interesting part of it is Dave Meltzer talking about an e-mail he received from Benoit where he said, "I've got to get out of here, but there's nowhere to go".

Death Grip
Pro Wrestlers' Grim Cycle: Pain, Drugs And Doom

By Paul Farhi
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 16, 2007; C01

Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit, best friends through thin times and thickening bodies, strutted in shared triumph around the ring in Madison Square Garden. Guerrero had just successfully defended his World Wrestling Entertainment title; Benoit had defeated two opponents to wear the belt as world heavyweight champion.

The wrestling was scripted, but the mutual sense of achievement on March 14, 2004, was real. After all the travel on back roads, the spiritual and pharmacological comfort, the dreams and near-death, the two pals had reached the professional pinnacle together.

Both were relatively small men in a business of behemoths, and both had built stupendous physiques by pumping their muscles with steroids and human growth hormones. After years of wandering through wrestling's grimy lower levels, the men -- now in their mid-30s -- had grown into well-paid star attractions in WWE, the richest and most glamorous wrestling enterprise.

Side by side at the Garden, their boyhood dreams finally realized, the easygoing, Mexican-born Guerrero and the intense, Canadian-born Benoit stood on the mountaintop, seemingly in peak physical form.

Within a little more than three years, both would be dead.

Benoit and Guerrero lived in a culture that breeds addicts, that encourages comic-book-hero bodies -- and that in recent years has seen dozens of its members die at conspicuously young ages, at a startling rate.

Dave Meltzer, founder and editor of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, recently compiled a list of current and former wrestlers who have died since 1997, before turning 50. He said his list ran to about 60 names -- and that was before former wrestler Brian "Crush" Adams died Monday of indeterminate causes.

About half those wrestlers died of various causes, he said, including car accidents, suicides and drug overdoses; the rest of the deaths, he said, are linked to heart ailments, including the type that killed Guerrero: arteriosclerotic heart disease, a narrowing of the blood vessels that can lead to a heart attack.

To put that mortality rate into context, Meltzer compares pro wrestling -- which has had roughly 1,500 male competitors in the past quarter-century, he estimates -- with pro football. If the same ratio of NFL players in the same time frame died before reaching age 50, more than 430 current or former players would have died prematurely, he said.

"And someone would be asking some serious questions," Meltzer said. "Something would be done."

Soul-Searching Trips

When Guerrero, 38, died alone of heart-related complications in a Minneapolis hotel room on Nov. 13, 2005, the man who found his body was his nephew and also a wrestler, Chavo Guerrero Jr. Overcome, Chavo Guerrero immediately called the one man he thought could understand the shock and grief: Chris Benoit.

Benoit's own demise would come 19 months later. Over the course of three days in late June, police say, the 40-year-old Benoit (pronounced ben-WAH) drugged and killed his 7-year-old son, Daniel, then strangled his wife, Nancy, 43, in the family's home outside Atlanta. Although Guerrero and Benoit died under different circumstances, their lives had several parallels.

The two men had a long friendship, traveling together in a circuit that weaved through Mexico, Japan, Europe and the United States. As wrestlers, both lived in near-constant pain, coping with the bruising, often lonely lifestyle with such drugs as sedatives and narcotic painkillers.

For Guerrero, an admitted alcoholic and drug abuser, prayer became a tool to help tame his torments. He encouraged Benoit to try Christianity, and in the later years of their friendship, they sometimes read Scripture together -- in locker rooms and hotel rooms, on soul-searching road trips.

Over more than 10 years of friendship, Guerrero and Benoit lived a professional existence ringed with sudden death. Eight wrestlers or former wrestlers who had been close associates of Benoit and Guerrero died during this decade -- five from the kind of heart-related ailment that felled Guerrero. The oldest of these men was 51; the youngest was 27.

People looking for clues into Benoit's alleged homicide and suicide have wondered whether despair over his friends' deaths led him to a sense of fatalism. What role did drugs and the long-term effects of his violent line of work play in Benoit's tragic end?

Benoit "took Eddie's death the hardest," said Carlos Ashenoff, a longtime friend of Guerrero, who wrestled with him and Benoit under the ring name Konnan over some 15 years. "And then another close friend dies. And the friend of a friend. Everyone around him dies. And no one seemed to give a damn."

Said Ashenoff: "It's just one tragedy after another."

On July 27, prompted by the Benoit tragedy, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee asked WWE to provide information about steroids and drug abuse in pro wrestling. The committee's chairman, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), said he wants the company to respond by Aug. 24.

After Guerrero's death, WWE vowed to clean house. After Benoit's death, many question how much was actually done.

No Clear Answers

Why do so many wrestlers die young?

There has never been a definitive medical study of the issue, but there are expert guesses. Drug abuse might play a role, some insiders say, as well as the long-term effect of repeated collisions such as concussive blows to the head. The number of heart-related deaths, coming after a long period of heavy steroid use among wrestlers, also has been cited as suspicious.

Others within wrestling think the lifestyle is probably a contributing factor. Even in the major league WWE, life outside the ring can be tougher than life within it.

A publicly traded corporation with more than $400 million in revenues in its most recent fiscal year, ending in April, WWE pays its main-event performers handsomely; retired stars such as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and Steve Williams, better known as Stone Cold Steve Austin, became millionaires.

But lesser lights don't fare quite so well. The WWE's rank and file -- there are about 200 wrestlers under contract, according to the company -- make about $100,000 annually at the low end (Benoit and Guerrero were making about $500,000 before their deaths, according to WWE sources).

That's far more than wrestlers can hope to earn in regional, independent promotions across the country or by wrestling abroad. But WWE's wrestlers are considered independent contractors with limited rights. WWE, for example, doesn't offer paid vacations, pension benefits or 401(k) plans.

There's also no off-season. Wrestlers perform in arenas across America, Asia and Europe as many as 150 times a year.

"The number one change that has to happen, and I've been saying it for years, is mandatory time off on a regular basis," said Wade Keller, the founder and editor of PWTorch.com, a wrestling newsletter. "Working 50 weeks a year is unsustainable. If they had a few months off a year, their bodies would have time to recover and they could have real relationships with their [families]. It's one thing to wreck your body and abuse pills when you're 22. It's a lot harder when you're 40."

There's another job obligation as well: the pressure to maintain a chiseled superhero physique.

Wrestling hasn't always been the province of such muscled men. "Gorgeous George" Wagner, the 1950s TV wrestling star, was 5-foot-9 and a rather lumpy 210 pounds in his heyday. Top performers of the 1960s and 1970s, such as Freddie Blassie and Bruno Sammartino, look flabby compared with today's performers.

The body image of pro wrestlers began to change in the mid-'80s when Hulk Hogan became wrestling's best-known figure. Hogan (real name: Terry Bollea) was so large -- about 6-5 and 300 pounds -- and "ripped" that promoters demanded similarly proportioned men to maintain the illusion of a fairly matched contest.

Among those promoting this change, says Keller, was Vince McMahon, chairman of the WWE (and its forerunner, the World Wrestling Federation). McMahon, a former bodybuilder, wanted "not just guys who performed well, but guys who looked like they just walked in from a video game," says Keller.

WWE executives, however, deny any suggestion that drug use is tolerated among their wrestlers. "We've made a lot of changes over the years," spokesman Gary Davis says. "We don't need steroids. We don't need drugs."

But Marc Mero, a former wrestler, believes steroids are commonplace in wrestling. "If you're not jacked and ready to go, you're not on," said Mero, who added that he took the muscle-building drugs for seven years.

Destined for the Ring

In interviews over the years, Guerrero and Benoit would tell much the same story: They always wanted to be wrestlers.

The youngest of four sons, Eduardo Gory Guerrero seemed destined for the ring. His father, Gory Guerrero, was a legendary Mexican wrestler, promoter and trainer. The family maintained its own makeshift ring in the back yard of its South El Paso home. Eddie Guerrero's elder brothers -- Mando, Hector and Chavo -- all preceded him into the professional ranks, and Chavo Jr. followed close behind. Even the name fit: Guerrero is Spanish for "warrior."

"Out of my whole life, there were maybe four months that I thought, I don't want to be a wrestler," he told the El Paso Times in 2003. "But I know what I wanted to do all my life. I grew up watching my dad and older brothers do it. This is a dream for me."

Benoit followed a similar path. Born in Montreal, he grew up in a suburb of Edmonton, Alberta. When he was 12, he saw a British wrestler called the Dynamite Kid (Tom Billington) perform in his home town. Benoit was hooked. "I just idolized him," he told a Canadian newspaper years later. "We had back-yard wrestling matches or I would be in my room, kicking my bed, trying to [imitate] him."

The teenage Benoit drove 180 miles every week to Calgary to work out at "the Dungeon," a famed training gym run by promoter Stu Hart in the basement of Hart's mansion. In tribute to Billington, Benoit made his debut at 18 as "Dynamite" Chris Benoit in Hart's Stampede Wrestling promotion.

While still a teenager, Guerrero was wrestling professionally, too. His first appearances were in Mexico, where "lucha libre" ("free fighting") has a long and colorful history. He would tour Japan, where he met Benoit.

Those who saw Guerrero perform remarked on his athleticism within the ring and his charisma out of it. But those near him say he was already troubled. Ashenoff said it was apparent when he met him in 1988 that Guerrero had a drinking problem. Later, Ashenoff said: "He had a cocaine habit. Next, it was pain medication. Then it was a muscle-relaxer habit."

Drugs and alcohol seemed to treat Guerrero's wrestling pains, Ashenoff says, but the pain also seemed to justify the drugs.

Current and former wrestlers say Guerrero's problems were extreme, but not unusual. In addition to casual use of alcohol, marijuana and cocaine, wrestlers "play hurt" with the help of pain medications like Vicodin, Percocet and Soma, a particular favorite.

"You self-medicate," says Mero, a veteran of the WWE and the defunct World Championship Wrestling. "You suck it up and perform. If it leads to an addiction, that's part of [the job]. Because, if you can't [perform], there are a hundred guys willing to take your place."

Glenn Gilberti, who wrestled in the WCW as Disco Inferno, said he knew of a fellow wrestler who took "30 to 50" Soma tablets day, and another who took as many Vicodin pills for relief. "Wrestling has changed in the past 10 to 15 years," Gilberti says. "It's more physical and realistic. It looks like it hurts because it does."

Says Ashenoff: "You get into a cycle where you need something to get you to bed at night, then something to get you up in the morning, then something to pick you up during the day, then something to bring you down at night. And you're not getting any real time to recover because you're working all the time."

At some point, Guerrero and Benoit became acquainted with another class of drugs: anabolic steroids.

Insiders say both men used the drugs to pack on muscle. Guerrero was 5-foot-8, Benoit was 5-9, and both weighed about 220 pounds when they died.

The toxicology report on Benoit's body indicated that he was taking synthetic testosterone, a steroid. He also had the anti-anxiety drug Xanax and a prescription painkiller similar to Percocet in his system.

In a subsequent indictment of Chris and Nancy Benoit's doctor, Phil C. Astin, on July 2, federal prosecutors alleged that Astin provided a 10-month supply of steroids to Benoit every three to four weeks from May 4, 2006, through May 9, 2007, as well as prescriptions for Percocet, Xanax and other drugs. According to the indictment, Astin wrote multiple prescriptions for the Benoits on the same date, leaving some of the prescriptions undated -- a violation of federal law. Astin has pleaded not guilty.

The medical examiner who conducted Guerrero's autopsy noted that the wrestler died of heart disease, complicated by an enlarged heart and other enlarged organs that were "consistent" with a history of steroid use.
'Weaker and Weaker'

In the ring, Benoit (nicknamed "the Canadian Crippler") and Guerrero (known as "Latino Heat") sometimes performed as allies, sometimes as feuding rivals. When both men jumped from World Championship Wrestling to WWF in 2000, they formed a "heel" (or villain) alliance called "the Radicalz." At various points, one or the other would become a "face," or good guy.

In real life, they were often inseparable. For several years, they lived near each other in the Tampa area. Benoit was a vigilant friend after an intoxicated Guerrero nearly died in a car accident in early 1999; Guerrero returned the attention when Benoit underwent spinal fusion surgery on his neck in 2001.

Guerrero's accident helped strengthen his religious convictions, and he sought to bolster Benoit's faith, too, says Ashenoff. Both men had rocky marriages punctuated by separations (Nancy Benoit filed for divorce in 2003, alleging that her husband had threatened her, but she eventually withdrew the petition).

When Guerrero finally was anointed WWE champion in early 2004 (he "lost" his title four months later), the organization marketed his triumph as a redemption story. The company released a DVD recounting his life story, and later a WWE-authorized autobiography (both called "Cheating Death, Stealing Life"). In both, Guerrero claimed that he had been sober for four years.

It was a hopeful, inspiring story. But like much about wrestling, it wasn't true.

Ashenoff, Guerrero's old friend and tag-team partner, visited him regularly during his championship years and remembers being shocked by his physical and emotional decline. "I could see him getting weaker and weaker. You'd see him in the dressing room looking like a mummy in ice packs. He could barely move after a show. . . . He was taking all these painkillers and he was very paranoid. He was just an emotional basket case."

"Without a doubt," Ashenoff says, "he wasn't clean [in the months before his death]. I know that for a fact. All those years [of abuse] finally caught up to him."

WWE aired a week of "tribute" shows to Guerrero. Benoit was interviewed on one of them, and is shown sobbing uncontrollably. "I just want to tell you I love you and [will] never forget you," he said through his tears before adding, "and we'll see each other again."

Within days, WWE turned Guerrero's death into a running story line. Two weeks after Guerrero's funeral, wrestler Randy Orton was portrayed on WWE's "Smackdown" show as destroying an "Eddie Guerrero Memorial Lowrider" to initiate a feud with another wrestler. Guerrero's name was later invoked to sell a pay-per-view special called "Hell in a Cell." The angle continued for much of last year.

Publicly, Benoit played along. But he was clearly bitter about it, says Meltzer. "I've got to get out of here, but there's nowhere to go," Benoit wrote in an e-mail to Meltzer late last year.

On June 24, Benoit was supposed to perform at a WWE event in Texas. He never showed up.

In recent interviews, WWE officials say they cannot shed any light on what led to Benoit's behavior during his tragic last weekend. "We just don't know what demons seized him," says David Black, the physician who runs the WWE drug-testing program that was implemented after Guerrero's death.

Evidence at the crime scene and the official police time line of events, however, suggest deliberation, not a sudden burst of drug-fueled activity, says Jerry McDevitt, the company's general counsel.

The Georgia state medical examiner, Kris Sperry, said it is "unanswerable" whether drugs played a role in Benoit's alleged crimes.

Black and McDevitt say they do not know of a link or any pattern to the deaths of professional wrestlers over the years.

"People see things that are a coincidence that leads them to reach grand conclusions that are not supported by scientific analysis," says WWE's Black, a forensic scientist. "You have to be very cautious about this kind of information," he says.

Black and McDevitt point out that only five men -- including Guerrero and Benoit -- have died while under WWE contract during the organization's 44-year history.

Further, they dispute suggestions that drug use is widespread among the WWE's wrestlers.

When the company instituted drug tests early last year, "less than half" of its performers came back with positive results, Black says. Since then, he estimates that there have been "sporadic" cases of positive tests, involving about 15 percent of performers. Suspensions have followed for some WWE stars.

Wrestlers say that contention ignores the obvious. The WWE's testing regime "is a joke," Gilberti says. "Just look at the guys on TV. There's steroid testing?" He and others doubt that WWE, given the economic incentive to keep its stars wrestling, can be trusted to administer and enforce a rigorous drug testing program. Gilberti likens it to "putting Keith Richards in charge of doing drug tests for rock stars."

WWE says its program is comparable to other sports-related drug-detection programs (Black was involved in setting up the NFL's testing program). But WWE acknowledges that its wrestlers are given a "therapeutic exemption," enabling them to escape sanction if they produce a doctor's prescription and justification for taking a drug, such as for treating an injury.

"This is not a competitive sport," Black says. "If a worker tested positive at Nissan Motor Corporation, they would not be dismissed" for a medically justifiable reason, either.

Keller, though, points out that some wrestlers "doctor-shop" until they find a physician who will write prescriptions for the drugs they seek.

Keller is among several critics who say WWE needs a more comprehensive policy, addressing both its working conditions and the use of drugs. Until then, he thinks, wrestling might experience more problems.

This past Monday, it did. Brian Adams, the former WCW and WWE wrestler, was found dead in his Tampa-area home by his wife. While police are still investigating, the circumstances of Adams's death had many of the hallmarks of Guerrero's demise. Adams's wife reported that he stopped breathing, and police said there were no visible signs of injury or foul play.

Adams was 43.

It's time for reform, Ashenoff says. "It's almost like there's an omerta," a Mafia-like code of silence among wrestlers, he says. "You don't snitch on each other. But it's just gotten to the point where enough is enough."

"I'm one of the success stories," Mero, 47, says with an ironic laugh. "I'm not dead."

nacho libre

Thanks for posting the article.

"I've got to get out of here, but there's nowhere to go".

he could have set up a wrestling training school or gone over to TNA. it's just very sad he felt there were no other options.

fatal

thanks for the article.It was a good read.

nacho libre wrote:

"I've got to get out of here, but there's nowhere to go".

it's just very sad he felt there were no other options.

Agreed.That quote really stands out

ShawnRaven

Hah Glenn Gilberti? Give me a break, Why don't we roll off Disco Inferno's accomplishments of his wrestling career. Let me seeeeeee....

Jobber, Jobber, Jobber, Loser, Jobber Jobber, oh the list goes on and on.

Now lets run down Marc Mero.

Decent midcarder in WCW, jumped over to WWE and put over some up and comers, then got overshadowed by my wife who left me and is now banging someone half my age... then i got turned into a jobber until my contract ran out.

Not bitter guys at all, no?
VR!

Vince135792003

Instead of bashing their careers and making fun of them, a better idea might be read and discuss what they have to say on something pretty important.

Fozzy

Kennedy did an interview with the Sun this week, there's a transcript and a link to the audio here: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003560001-2007380340,00.html

Only two new things there really, one is that Kennedy finally admits that he did take steroids. The other bit I hadn't read before is this bit (talking about Benoit):

I remember one of the things, I remember having a conversation with him, right before WrestleMania 22 in Chicago, we went to have a workout, and we were driving, and he kind of opened up to me a little bit, he asked me some stuff, and I remember him asking me "do you take recreational drugs?" and I said "no, I don't do anything".

I said "do you?" and he said "yeah, from time to time".

So I said what are you going to do with this Wellness Policy, and he's like: "I don't know, I'm going to have a hard time with it."

I remember also having him say to me: "I'm going to have to work the rest of my life because of my lazy, 'expletive-deleted' of an ex-wife took everything from me, and I'm going to have to work the rest of my life."

I know that was a huge, huge issue with him.

Did she really take everything? Because the reports this week are saying that their two kids will inherit millions from him now

Vince135792003

Did she really take everything? Because the reports this week are saying that their two kids will inherit millions from him now

People estimate that he was on roughly half a million dollars a year. But a chunk of that would have gone to his ex-wife and 2 kids in terms of child support, then taxes and then road expenses. And when you keep slicing it all away from his gross income there probably isn't as much left as you'd think and I'd say there was a feeling of being trapped in wrestling.

From what I've read there's probably gonna be a messy situation over his estate between the 2 families. Apparently it all depends on who was killed first on which family getting it. Its very sad.

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

Instead of bashing their careers and making fun of them, a better idea might be read and discuss what they have to say on something pretty important.

I would had it been a fair judgment, but reading some of the sh*t Mero has to say about this tragedy, and how he can be so f*cking smug about it, is something quite frankly, i have a hard time doing. Especially if it's from the likes of a never-was and a never-will be like Marc Mero.

VR!