All Benoit Discussion In Here

Fozzy

raven136 wrote:

wwe is not going to allow an independent tester in and fully co operate,it took a sports illustrated sting on a pharmacy to catch orton,helms and edge

I don't know the details of Randy's case, but Helms and Edge took them as part of a prescribed medical plan to aid in recovering from major surgery. Their cases have nothing to do with the "steroids and wrestling" topic

Dragan

raven136 wrote:

Testing is not rigorious enough in those sports and only baseball has been properly checked out by congress.

The simple fact of the matter is that Congress has no right, and no place, to carry out any such investigation. The whole "baseball scandal" was turned into a vote generating which hunt and thats about it!

There were no conclusions drawn from it, just a load of bull****. Look up anyting written by John Romano for a clear and balanced view of that whole **** storm.

Beelzebub

Dragan wrote:

Some types are, "steroids" covers a massive group of medicines to be honest. Also, very rarely are anabolic steroids injected into anything other than muscle tissue, such as the delt, the quad, or the buttock. The fact that he had needle marks on his arms leads me to believe that they were caused from other medications for his Fragile X syndrome.

This is pretty basic stuff than any paper could find out if they wanted to.

I never said anything about injections in the arms.
I believe that they can also be delivered subcutaneously.


Indeed it is, and it's also used to try and deal with the mild dwarfism that suffers of Fragile X have.

I didn't see anything on the web to indicate that growth hormone or anabolic steroids are used to treat Fragile X. If you have this information please post it.
The thing which concerns me most is that the procecutor says: " his parents considered him undersized and had given him growth hormones."
This is not stating a medical opinion but rather indicates/infers that the parents were doing this off their own bat!
Like I previously said, I would hope this was not the case!


Yes it is, but once again is not injected into the arm....think of the little things that diabetics use to administer insulin....that is more along the lines of a GH delivery system.

Again I didn't say anything about injections into the arms.


As far as i am aware scripts have been found in the house to cover any steroids that were found, be they for Daniel's Fragile X or Chris own hypogonadism.

The same article says: "Investigators say Chris illegally received deliveries from a Florida business called MedXLife.com that sold steroids, human growth hormone and testosterone on the Internet."
No scripts for these.


Not at all, the majority of steroidal medicines can easily be administered in the home and in the case of long lived and highly expensive treatments such as Daniels parents are often trained in the administration of such.

If GH was medically prescribed then it would probably have to be done this way as it would probably need to be administered daily and so it would prove inconvenient for the parents to make daily trips to a hospital.
But again I don't see the information to support this treatment.

There really is a logical answer for everything you have pointed out if you look hard enough. I will reserve judgement on Daniels state until i can find out exactly what the toxicology reports show in his blood and what stage of treatment he was at.

That article seems to once again be getting the wrong end of the stick and small bit of research into the disease itself and the administration of steroids and GH would have quashed it at the editors desk.

This remains to be seen. So we need to reserve judgement on this also.

Dragan

Beelzebub wrote:

This remains to be seen. So we need to reserve judgement on this also.

Indeed, but from your post i was under the impression that you were taking the news stories to date as being somehow accurate, when clearly they are not.

raven136

Dragan wrote:

The simple fact of the matter is that Congress has no right, and no place, to carry out any such investigation. The whole "baseball scandal" was turned into a vote generating which hunt and thats about it!

There were no conclusions drawn from it, just a load of bull****. Look up anyting written by John Romano for a clear and balanced view of that whole **** storm.

first off the the congress held a hearing and since then Bud Selig has been taking it on from there.The hearing was not a waste of time,not their fault that players claimed they couldnt speak english(step forward Sammy Sosa).

Jason Giambi looks like he will admit his own steriod use without naming other players that have,Infact he has said he used"those things" and gave a sad ass apology of sorts.
Former mvp Ken Caminti has admitted using steroids,Curt Schilling who won the red sox their last series says 15 to 20%of all baseball players use stroids.Its not a witch hunt,and there is no mandatory testing yet.

The simple fact is that every baseball record set now will no doubt be flawed and have an asterix beside it.

Mitch Connor

Ph3n0m wrote:

He only admitted it after his wife outted him over the whole Hardy-Lita affair

they both admited to using doctor prescribed steroids as part of rehadilitation from injury - neither admited using "recreationally".

Ph3n0m

here is the post from Edge's blog

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=107643765&blogID=243887243&Mytoken=70BD2221-FE20-4099-A94E4E922FA84E133878819

ShawnRaven

raven136 wrote:

check out the list of bodybuilders dead from steriod use on athletesagainststeriods.org.
bodybuilders,baseball,wrestling and weightlifting are all affected by steriods etc and its time they all were regulated

You're missing the point, the point is that nobody knows for a fact that this particular case is steroid related. Just cos there was steroids in the house doesn't mean Chris was taking them, they could have been for is ailing son.

VR!

Vince135792003

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQtBLMSR6c -Vince McMahon on the today show part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiejVGOZsU -Vince McMahon on the today show part 2.


Bret Hart Interview on Nancy Grace (she's clueless about wrestling...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kG6Ai9UVaI

Bret Hart on Fox News with Greta Van Susteren:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFpu5dUAqXQ

Wade Keller on his hot line today detailed a conversation he had with a top star. In relation to the Wellness policy the wrestler stated that "Wellness for the top guys is a joke".

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

validreasoning! wrote:

Just cos there was steroids in the house doesn't mean Chris was taking them
VR!

i know there is drug testing in the wwe, but a lot of wrestlers are on steroids, i mean look at vince!! i dont think he is that big naturaly! tba, id say they were chris's

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQtBLMSR6c -Vince McMahon on the today show part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUiejVGOZsU -Vince McMahon on the today show part 2.


Bret Hart Interview on Nancy Grace (she's clueless about wrestling...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kG6Ai9UVaI

Bret Hart on Fox News with Greta Van Susteren:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFpu5dUAqXQ

Wade Keller on his hot line today detailed a conversation he had with a top star. In relation to the Wellness policy the wrestler stated that "Wellness for the top guys is a joke".

thanks alot man

Vince135792003

Road Warrior Animal on NBC- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlgzdyGSPJw&NR=1

Good interview.

ShawnRaven

Cara Short Dollhouse wrote:

i know there is drug testing in the wwe, but a lot of wrestlers are on steroids, i mean look at vince!! i dont think he is that big naturaly! tba, id say they were chris's

He was tested two months ago and tested negative according to the reports.
Sweet christ, i'm starting to believe that people either can't or don't read anymore!!

VR!

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

Road Warrior Animal on NBC- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlgzdyGSPJw&NR=1

Good interview.

thanks again...thats a great interview

Vince135792003

validreasoning! wrote:

He was tested two months ago and tested negative according to the reports.
Sweet christ, i'm starting to believe that people either can't or don't read anymore!!

My understanding is that he "passed" his last test. Theres a difference between passing his test and having none in your body under Wellness. I'm open to correction on that though if there's a fully verified report.

Again though, its a waiting game. I don't think we'll ever fully know but the toxicology report will be out in a couple of weeks and that will tell a lot.

Generally though, from all the reports and all the audio I have listened to I'm of the belief (and its just a belief) that it wasn't one isssue. It wasn't just steroids. It wasn't just depression. It wasn't just that Chris Benoit was was pre-disposed into doing somtihng like this. It was a combination of alot of things.

Steroids or other substance use didn't help the situation. 3 of his closest friends dieing in a very small time frame 18 months ago didn't help. The deaths of Wellington (a good friend of Benoits) and Sherri (a friend on Nancy's) last week didn't help. Concussions and head trauma with a guy who was one of the few that took chair shots to the back of the head didn't help. The situation with his little boy seems to have been very stressful too.

Again though, this is just my opinion and again I'm not excusing what hes done. Nothing can excuse what happened for me but there explainations out there I believe that are relevant when talking about this.


One more thing, I do think steroids is a relevant issue when talking about this. I don't think its a pre-dominant issue though. There are many other factors (like the few I listed above) that are just as relevant.

Dragan

Cara Short Dollhouse wrote:

i know there is drug testing in the wwe, but a lot of wrestlers are on steroids, i mean look at vince!! i dont think he is that big naturaly! tba, id say they were chris's

I would imagine the Vince gets his through Wellness treatment, the same was Chris was.

People seem to be missing the point that perscriptions were found in the house, and his own doctor has said he prescribed them to him?

fatal

Dragan wrote:

People seem to be missing the point that perscriptions were found in the house, and his own doctor has said he prescribed them to him?

Yea i still can't understand that some two days after it was announced people still can't get that into their heads and keep speculating that they were illegal

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

My understanding is that he "passed" his last test. Theres a difference between passing his test and having none in your body under Wellness. I'm open to correction on that though if there's a fully verified report.

Again though, its a waiting game. I don't think we'll ever fully know but the toxicology report will be out in a couple of weeks and that will tell a lot.

Generally though, from all the reports and all the audio I have listened to I'm of the belief (and its just a belief) that it wasn't one isssue. It wasn't just steroids. It wasn't just depression. It wasn't just that Chris Benoit was was pre-disposed into doing somtihng like this. It was a combination of alot of things.

Steroids or other substance use didn't help the situation. 3 of his closest friends dieing in a very small time frame 18 months ago didn't help. The deaths of Wellington (a good friend of Benoits) and Sherri (a friend on Nancy's) last week didn't help. Concussions and head trauma with a guy who was one of the few that took chair shots to the back of the head didn't help. The situation with his little boy seems to have been very stressful too.

Again though, I'm not excusing what he done. Nothing can excuse what happened for me but there explainations out there I believe that are relevant when talking about this.

explanations are not excuses and I agree with all the one that you have given above

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

Generally though, from all the reports and all the audio I have listened to I'm of the belief (and its just a belief) that it wasn't one isssue. It wasn't just steroids. It wasn't just depression. It wasn't just that Chris Benoit was was pre-disposed into doing somtihng like this. It was a combination of alot of things.

Steroids or other substance use didn't help the situation. 3 of his closest friends dieing in a very small time frame 18 months ago didn't help. The deaths of Wellington (a good friend of Benoits) and Sherri (a friend on Nancy's) last week didn't help. Concussions and head trauma with a guy who was one of the few that took chair shots to the back of the head didn't help. The situation with his little boy seems to have been very stressful too.

Again though, I'm not excusing what he done. Nothing can excuse what happened for me but there explainations out there I believe that are relevant when talking about this.

I am in agreement here, nothing can or will excuse his actions. But i think his fans, his family, Nancy's family, his collegues would like a definite explanation, and the issue will never die until we're given that. But you pointed out the head-trauma as well as the combination of a lot of other stuff. To me it seemed to have built up and lead to temporary insanity, causing him to murder his wife. Not being able to deal with that, he then murdered his son and then offed himself. I'm not sure if killing his wife was premeditated, but killing his 7 year old son most definitely was, and thats what's getting to a f*ckload of people right now.

VR!

Fozzy

You can pass the WWE wellness test as long as you have reasonable prescriptions for any drugs you're using. Reasonable as in you don't have prescriptions for the same thing from multiple doctors, or the doses are higher than what is medically acceptable

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

You can pass the WWE wellness test as long as you have reasonable prescriptions for any drugs you're using. Reasonable as in you don't have prescriptions for the same thing from multiple doctors, or the doses are higher than what is medically acceptable

But under the Wellness Policy you only fail a steroid test if your TE ratio is above 10 to 1. Thats high. Very high.

I don't want to hijack this thread into medical stuff though. I think it has to a degree already and I think the whole situation is way more complicated than just 1 thing.

Fozzy

RVD has commented on his website: http://www.robvandam.com/rvdblog.html. I think he talks sense

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote:

I don't want to hijack this thread into medical stuff though. I think it has to a degree already and I think the whole situation is way more complicated than just 1 thing.

Definitely, but the mainstream media don't seem to be able to comprehend that

Ph3n0m

RVD, for wrestlers and fans alike has summed it up as best he could

How many murderers…baby murderers at that… are praised so highly by EVERYONE who knew them? This is all so bizarre and new information seems to come out every few hours but I can’t imagine we’ll ever understand what happened here. It appears that Chris took the answers with him. To tell you the honest truth, the easiest thing for me to believe at this moment is that if no frame work was involved, he was taken over by demonic energies with no compassion. I have to believe this is often the case with such inhumane acts.

Vince135792003

From 1wrestling.com , wrestlers reaction:

Victoria writes on her MySpace blog, "What Chris did was selfish and hurtful." She later says, "Maybe someday I'll be able to forgive Chris, but not today".

Jillian posted the following on her MySpace blog: "Well, by now the whole world knows of the horrible news that took place this week. With all of the comments and messages from people saying how sorry they are for our loss, I figured I would speak in general. I am 100% in agreeance with WWE and Mr. McMahon on completely erasing all tributes to Chris Benoit. While he had always been nice and polite to me and most of the WWE talent, what he did is completely disgusting and unforgiveable! This man who could have been a legend has demolished his reputation. My heart goes out to Nancy and the adorable Daniel and the family and friends they left behind!".

Diamond Dallas Page expressed his shock to me when I talked to him this afternoon. His comments reflect what we all have felt, "It's a tragedy in so many ways...in too many ways".

Jim Ross wrote about the tragedy in his most recent blog update. Ross expresses his shock in what happened, "The details that are now coming out of the police investigation are beyond my comprehension. I don’t even know how to respond to them.


Eric Bischoff comments about the Benoit tragedy in a blog update today on his official website. Bischoff says he is struggling to comprehend the tragedy. "I can not begin to articulate my feelings about the tragedy in the Benoit family. It is something I am really struggling to comprehend."

Bischoff addresses the media coverage of the tragedy and says, "It's really impossible anymore to be honest about something as tragic and emotionally charged as this issue without sounding like I have some kind of "hidden agenda". Its clear that the media wants to blame steroids, professional wrestling, Vince McMahon, or anyone or anything else that further sensationalizes this family tragedy." He continues, "I refuse to join the choir. I don't have enough information. I wasn't there. I am not a psychiatrist. I just can't imagine how or why this could have happened."

Bischoff closes his blog with, "God bless Nancy and Daniel. God forgive Chris Benoit."

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote:

RVD has commented on his website: http://www.robvandam.com/rvdblog.html. I think he talks sense

Any chance u could cut and paste it??? Im in work, restricted access!!

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

Definitely, but the mainstream media don't seem to be able to comprehend that

I actually think the mainstream media have been better on this than most wrestling tragedies. There not going with the "Its just wrestling" line. They are willing to discuss it. Your right in the sense though they have really honed in on 1 thing to a degree. Not all have though.

However, for most part, they are talking about wrestling and wrestlers with a degree of respect that hasn't always been there. Maybe its because of the nature of the tragedy.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I have no problem with the media honing in on the WWE and how they treat their wrestlers. If it means a little or a lot changes that will benefit wrestlers long term, I'm all for it.

Fozzy

From RVD's site:

Rob Van Dam wrote:

Benoit Balls
Well, there’s no need to wait until we have our heads wrapped around this, because I doubt that’ll happen, so here it is. I know that a monster committed those terrible, unforgivable acts of horror. Just like everyone who knew Chris Benoit, I can’t think of him as a monster. Not Chris.

Chris was truly a role model’s role model. You simply had to respect him and admire his focus and unmatched discipline. If I ever got asked a question about who I looked up to the most in the business, you guessed it. That’s me sharing a real feeling with you. Not talking about bull **** that I have little interest in, like who would I like most to wrestle with, or what’s my favorite color, but who I actually looked up to in the dressing room. It’s Chris Benoit- in the ring and in the dressing room and with his family.

The last time I talked to Chris, a few weeks ago, he told me how much he respected me for stepping away from the business. His message now comes to me from beyond. He said “Some of us don’t know when to get out.” I told him that I always held a little contempt for him telling me back in 1992 that I was a dumb-ass for wanting to quit WCW, and mentioned the irony.

Over the last several years, on overseas tours I’d always see Chris in the gym when the other guys were recovering from the night before. He’d train hard and sometimes I’d see him allowing young wrestlers to follow his lead and get a guaranteed killer workout. He took pride in what he did and set a great example for others, myself included, to follow.

How many murderers…baby murderers at that… are praised so highly by EVERYONE who knew them? This is all so bizarre and new information seems to come out every few hours but I can’t imagine we’ll ever understand what happened here. It appears that Chris took the answers with him. To tell you the honest truth, the easiest thing for me to believe at this moment is that if no frame work was involved, he was taken over by demonic energies with no compassion. I have to believe this is often the case with such inhumane acts.

Nancy, Daniel and Chris’ tragic deaths obviously have affected a lot of people. Just remember, there’s enough hate in this world. Hateful thoughts do not move us in the right direction, so make a conscious effort to remember that. It’s important now and always.

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote:

From RVD's site:

Thanks man

Fozzy

The latest news is that Drug Enforcement officers have raided Benoit's personal physician's office as his name was on prescription bottles found in the home: http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3622162&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

I'm not quite sure why they feel the need to raid the place, unless they feel the doctor did something wrong

Beelzebub

Tauren wrote:

they both admited to using doctor prescribed steroids as part of rehadilitation from injury - neither admited using "recreationally".

Nobody will admit that.
Because it's a criminal offence even to posses the drugs in the U.S.

"The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. Simple possession of illicitly obtained anabolic steroids carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a minimum $1,000 fine if this is an individual’s first drug offense. The maximum penalty for trafficking is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 if this is the individual’s first felony drug offense. If this is the second felony drug offense, the maximum period of imprisonment and the maximum fine both double. While the above listed penalties are for federal offenses, individual states have also implemented fines and penalties for illegal use of anabolic steroids."

Taken from: http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/steroids.html

I'm not sure how agressively they enforce these laws at present.
But I'm feeling that that will now change drastically.

Fozzy

Beelzebub wrote:

Nobody will admit that.
Because it's a criminal offence even to posses the drugs in the U.S.

As I've said twice already, they were prescribed the steroids. As you said yourself:

"The possession or sale of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal.

So presumably the possession of steroids with a valid prescription is legal, right?

EDIT: I take it you mean nobody will admit using them "recreationally". But I don't think there are many wrestlers who are using steroids without a prescription

Fozzy

WWE.com have removed the Benoit stories from their front page and I can't see any mention of him in their news sections now either

Fozzy

Very strange update on this: apparently Chris' Wikipedia entry was updated to say that his wife was dead 14 hours before the police found her body. http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,287194,00.html

Maybe it was Chris himself who did it, but if it was someone else it throws a new twist into it

EDIT: The IP address was traced to Stamford, Connecticut, which is where WWE's main offices are

Another EDIT: Just did a bit of a search myself, this was written on the page of the user who changed it:

"This guy didn't know about Chris Benoit's wife's death. He is just a vandal who got incredibly lucky. Stop wasting your time investigators. Unless this guy changed his ip address to this beforehand, but, i don't know."

I'd be inclined to believe that now, still strange though

nacho libre

Fozzy wrote:

Definitely, but the mainstream media don't seem to be able to comprehend that

the intense scrutiny on steroids abuse may not be valid but if it somehow brings about a real transformation in WWE culture then it's worth it in my view. perhaps that is just wishful thinking... but if Vince is hits where it hurts he may scale down the schedule for wrestlers, allow recuperation from injuries rather than the present state of affairs where you have no real choice but to work injured. He might also have a wellness policy that unlike the present one isn't a charade.

Cool_CM

Bad taste, anybody else seen this?
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Chris_Benoit_Shining.jpg

littlejp

I've been reading all the news coming out since this happened and I still don't think I'm any closer to comprehending what could have led to this happening.
A lot of the mainstream news coverage is sensational bullsh1t, jumping all over the fact that steroids were found and spouting "roid-rage" as a possible cause. I'm no expert but I don't think "roid-rage" last for more than 10 minutes, certainly not long enough for someone to take as long as Chris did to do what he did. WWE came off very defensive saying that steroids played no part in this. While it wasn't roid rage, he clearly snapped due either to pressure about family/work, or due to whatever cocktail of painkillers and other drugs he was on. Steroid use may have led him gradually down into depression or psychosis.I guess the toxicology report will clear this up a bit.
I know a lot of these points have been raised already, I guess I'm just trying to make sense of it.
What does everyone think could be a possible fallout for the WWE. Do you see attendances and profits taking a hit? I could imagine their sponsors won't be too pleased about any of this. Will they have to change their way of operating to give talent more time off? I don't think this is a bad idea.
Any thoughts???

Vince135792003

Article by Wade Keller, editor of pro-wrestling torch www.pwtorch.com. Its worth a read I think:

UPDATED: Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 11:42 a.m.

Some brief thoughts on Vince McMahon on Today: Good for Meredith Vieira. To say Vince McMahon probably doesn't get pressed and confronted like that by many people very often would be an understatement. She pressed the issue of the ill-advised media release that accused the media of a sensationalizing the steroid aspect of the story. She quoted the story, asked how WWE could say steroids could not have been a factor in the Benoit Family Tragedy, and then when McMahon denied they said that, she quoted the statement saying exactly that once again. She was prepared well for the interview and even got McMahon to say that steroids could have played a role, although he discounted roid rage because of the three-day spread of events. (Once again, I don't think it's this giant leap in logic to imagine that Benoit could have, among many possibilities, killed his wife in a fit of roid rage during a domestic dispute, then spent the rest of the weekend in a haze as he moved into the next phase of his sick actions.

When Vieira asked if steroids turn up in his blood, what does he plan to do. He had no answer. It is a tough answer. There is not an easy solution that is guaranteed to work, but there are a lot of moves that could be made that might, added together, make a real difference. Here are just a few:

(a) Eliminate from the Wellness Policy the ability to fail a drug test and then retake it shortly thereafter and pass. In theory, the loophole in the WWE Wellness Policy is that if the T/E ratio of the steroid test is above 4/1 but below 10/1 (1/1 is "normal" and "typical" in an everyday non-user), they are given a retest to be sure the first result isn't a fluke or inaccurate. The problem is, a wrestler on steroids when he's tested knows he's likely going to come up above the 4/1 ratio, so according to the wording of the wellness policy he has - from the time he takes the test until the retest - a chance to get off steroids and use sophisticated methods known in the bodybuilding community to cleanse his system and balance his T/E ratio, so the second test become a test of discipline and IQ, not a true test of whether he had been taking steroids for weeks, months, or even years before that first test. If you have "deca" in your system, which stays in your blood for a long time, as long as you have a prescriptions, you pass WWE's test as long as your T/E is under 10/1.

(b) Make the Wellness Policy more transparent. List on WWE.com the names of the wrestlers that are tested and when tests take place. That way, outsiders (and wrestlers who are concerned about uneven application of the tests) could track how often testing is done, and see that it's randomly spread across the entire roster of performers. Results could still be kept private - as in not attached to names. Then provide more info on the testing agency so accountability for the true objectivenes and thoroughness could be verified. If WWE has reason to be proud of this policy, let everyone know more about it so if there is a drug related or potentially drug related tragedy, they don't appear to be doing damage control by touting their policy afterward, but instead are fully disclosing the nature of it on a week to week basis at all times.

(c) Create weight divisions like UFC, boxing, and other one-on-one sports that pro wrestling is an emulation of. Push multiple weight divisions as equals. Give wrestlers the size of Benoit a chance to feel they have an equal opportunity without massive muscles to be featured in main event slots on TV and PPVs by showcasing their charisma, personalities, and in-ring skills without having to bulk up to look credible against colleagues six inches taller with natural weights 50 pounds or more greater than theirs.

(d) Mandatory six-week breaks twice a year, rotated among all roster members, so wrestlers' bodies have a chance to get out of the grind of life on the road. The grind has been a source of pride for too long. Wrestlers wear it as a badge of honor to offset insecurities and judgments about being "fake wrestlers in a fake sport." It's time to set that aside and take pride in standing up for themselves as professional entertainers and demand the same type of humane, family-friendly, life-friendly treatment as professionals that movie and TV actors, pro athletes, and blue collar union factory workers enjoy as part of their jobs.

If everybody got off steroids (which would be a combination of much more stringent testing, more often, without the retesting option combined with eliminating all of the built-in incentives to take them), everyone would shrink somewhat, some more than others. So what. WWE isn't competing with a truly threatening national competitor. Pro wrestling will still be enjoyable even if all of the wrestlers are smaller. They'll still be bigger than the average audience member and athletically and charismatically superior. So they will still be huge attractions. A few wrestlers relying on their muscles might not fit in. So what. They'll be replaced with better athletes with no desire to mess with their body chemistry and health who otherwise are great athletes who can cut promos and attract crowds. The Ultimate Fighter features skinny (but cut) looking 155 pounders who are drawing cable ratings fighting each other. It's a ridiculous, false premise that pro wrestlers have to be so much bigger than average and turn heads in airports to draw.

Mr.Nice Guy

I haven't been on this board since the Monday night tribute show as I've been ill these last few days but I've skimmed few these pages plus the Wrestling Observer and I just now watched the appearance by Vince McMahon on the Today Show in America.

First off I want to commend Vince McMahon on his handling of what is probably the most difficult situation the company has ever faced. I respect him greatly for that.

Secondly, on to the real issue here - the person Chris Benoit. This is a guy I respected 100 per cent and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who felt that way. I actually got choked up the other evening as I told my family how my favourite wrestler and his family had been murdered (which is what I thought). I shed tears as I watched the Raw tribute show and I sang Benoit's praises on this board on Sunday evening/Monday morning.

Now, knowing what has happened here, I am left sick to my stomach and I withdraw the praises which I lavished on the man. It's quite amazing that a guy I idolised could turn out to be, as Vince McMahon put it, "a monster".

I don't know about anyone else on here but this has really soured my love for professional wrestling. The final moments of Wrestlemania 20 with Benoit and Eddie in the ring was perhaps my favourite wrestling moment ever. Now? Well now it's forever tainted as is all the matches that Chris Benoit has ever participated in.

Someone in this thread mentioned earlier about erasing Benoit from history and I can't see any other option now, although it will be so difficult for the WWE to do.

Chris Benoit was once a hero to me but no longer. He acted in a sadistic and calculated fashion and brutally murdered his wife and son. You think you know a person but in reality you know nothing.

Apologies if that comes across as a bit muddled but I really don't know how to adequately express my shock and disgust here. My thoughts are with the families and friends of the man who must be absolutely devastated. So sad.

RebelRockChick

JBL just posted a blog at WWE.com. It says:

"I want to say my thoughts and prayers are with all those affected by the horrific events that happened this past weekend with the Benoit family. I have never been this close to a tragedy of this scale, and still have no understanding how this incomprehensible thing could have happened. I knew the family well, and I don’t want to add my speculation to what happened. I just want to say, I wish it never had, I think it is deplorable and my heart is broken that it did."

---

From PWInsider:

The Atlanta-Journal Constitution is reporting that Chris Benoit will receive a private burial in Canada while Nancy and Daniel Benoit will most likely be cremated in Florida. Funeral services for Nancy and Daniel will likely be held in Daytona Beach, where her family resides.

"It's a horrible, horrible event that's happened," Chris Benoit's father Michael Benoit told the A J-C, "We have no understanding why it happened. It's going to take us a long time to come to terms with this, and we may never come to terms with it."

"Our thoughts and prayers are with Nancy's family," Michael Benoit said. "We're very concerned about the long-term affects on her family."

Vince135792003

If anyone has ever thought about buying an issue of the Wrestling Observer, this might be the week to do it.

whitelightrider

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I haven't been on this board since the Monday night tribute show as I've been ill these last few days but I've skimmed few these pages plus the Wrestling Observer and I just now watched the appearance by Vince McMahon on the Today Show in America.

First off I want to commend Vince McMahon on his handling of what is probably the most difficult situation the company has ever faced. I respect him greatly for that.

Secondly, on to the real issue here - the person Chris Benoit. This is a guy I respected 100 per cent and I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who felt that way. I actually got choked up the other evening as I told my family how my favourite wrestler and his family had been murdered (which is what I thought). I shed tears as I watched the Raw tribute show and I sang Benoit's praises on this board on Sunday evening/Monday morning.

Now, knowing what has happened here, I am left sick to my stomach and I withdraw the praises which I lavished on the man. It's quite amazing that a guy I idolised could turn out to be, as Vince McMahon put it, "a monster".

I don't know about anyone else on here but this has really soured my love for professional wrestling. The final moments of Wrestlemania 20 with Benoit and Eddie in the ring was perhaps my favourite wrestling moment ever. Now? Well now it's forever tainted as is all the matches that Chris Benoit has ever participated in.

Someone in this thread mentioned earlier about erasing Benoit from history and I can't see any other option now, although it will be so difficult for the WWE to do.

Chris Benoit was once a hero to me but no longer. He acted in a sadistic and calculated fashion and brutally murdered his wife and son. You think you know a person but in reality you know nothing.

Apologies if that comes across as a bit muddled but I really don't know how to adequately express my shock and disgust here. My thoughts are with the families and friends of the man who must be absolutely devastated. So sad.

Im sorry about replying like this, but I think some of your statements are a bit harsh. I too thought the world of Chris Benoit. Ive followed his wrestling for years and have to say that he was one of the greatest wrestlers I have ever seen. And like you I have to commend Vince McMahon for the way he handled this situation.

But where do you figure out that this was a calculated act? Going by each news report and reading the messages that Chris sent his friends it seems more like a frenzied attach. He killed Nancy first and then left it almost a day before killing Daniel. How is this calculated??? I tend to agree with statements made that after killing Nancy in what was definitely a frezied attack, Chris realised what he had done. Rather than leave Daniel, who has Fragile X syndrome alone, he decided to end his life and also end his own.

My point is that we will never know what happened inside the Benoit home that weekend and I really dont think it's fair to judge anyone without hearing their side of the story. Unfortunately in this case we will never hear it. May the Benoit family rest in peace.

Vince135792003

Its obviously a very emotive subject. Everyone has an opinion as a result and its no less valid than anybody elses.

For example, I would be less positive towards Vince than many for example but I can see where people are coming from when they say he has handled it well.

Anyway heres an interesting column by Bruce Mitchell, senior columnist of the torch:

To: WWE

The media storm around the Chris Benoit double murder/suicide isn’t going to be spun away from WWE now. Still, you can do a better job with the media than you have so far. This isn’t steering your loyal fans to think the media is picking on you again. This is the real world.

Still, you finally made one good move when you pulled those “news” updates from your website. In this thing, the fewer targets you present to a so-far-ravenous-media the better. There are some more things you can do to help yourself:

• Out in the real world when you promise an apology, like you did to the media for giving Chris Benoit a three hour tribute show when you knew there was a strong possibility he murdered his family, people expect to hear the words “We’re sorry.” The real world doesn’t know or care that Vince McMahon promised his fans he “wasn’t going to take any crap off anybody ever again” and that WWE fans might be disappointed if Mr. McMahon showed weakness.

• Don’t send Vince McMahon out there to answer questions from real reporters like Meredith Vieira, who might look at their notes to check if he’s wrong or not. Send Mick Foley to take the heat. Do it for three reasons: 1. You don’t much like him. 2. The world doesn’t think of him as a vulgar, hustling promoter or remember when he tried to bully that cute little Bob Costas. 3. Foley won’t be so callous to clam that wrestling deaths don’t count unless the dead person is under contract to your company at the time he/she died. If the media starts counting the number of dead wrestlers under 45 who worked for WWE at one time or another and McMahon trots out that line again, Meredith Vieira will look like Nancy Grace shilling your WWE Iraq tour.

• If anyone asks for the copy of "Muscle & Fitness" with Vince McMahon on the cover, claim all your copies were ruined in that basement flood at Shane McMahon’s house.

• Get down or your knees and pray the media doesn’t figure out “negative” doesn’t mean “no steroids” in your Wellness Policy or that it allows multiple times more steroids in your performers than does any other sport which tests its athletes.

• Don’t forget to also pray they don’t learn what a “mark” doctor is willing to do to hang out with a professional wrestler or that doctors are legally only allowed to prescribe steroids and human growth hormone for FDA-approved reasons. Sadly, that doesn’t include muscle building.

• Hope that no one in the media hears what happened to WWE Superstar Chris Masters’s TV time and pay when he shrunk the way he did after the Policy went into effect or what happened when he regained the muscle mass he lost.

• Don’t bother praying that Chris Benoit’s toxicology report comes back negative for steroids. Some things are out of the hands of even God.

• Tread easy on that Fragile X stuff. No one goes into a rage and strangles their special needs child’s primary caregiver over where to send him to school.

• Don’t try to heel the wife, either, even if it would help your company to make your WWE Superstar a little less of a monster. Folks don’t take kindly to blaming murder victims.

• Get in front of this story by announcing a real plan to make your wrestlers’ lives better.

To be honest I think the abuse of painkillers is just as important an issue as the steroids. I agree with above posters assertion that he may well have illed his wife in a fit of roid rage and then gone into a haze thereafter. Chances are, we'll never know.

shinzon

Just to add to all of this I just watched what i would call a very sensationalist piece about chris benoit on Ireland AM this morning, first they had 2 guys on from Celtic Pro Wrestling :eek: commenting on the murders and again the subject of steroids and roid rage came up, it seems the whole piece was pulled off the internet in some random way to make the presenters at least look as if they knew what there talking about

Mark Cagney even admitted that he didnt even know who the man was, he mentioned about the injections of steroids and growth hormones for his son, no mention of why he was injected as regards his syndrome fragile X etc

Again please do not misconstrue me as defending a murderer, for that chris benoit can never be forgiven, it was a disgusting act, its just this sloppy no research journalism with just the bear facts at hand that gets right up my nose

Shin

Ph3n0m

ah yes Ireland AM - Ireland's answer to The Sun or The Star

Sensationalist reporting with researching the facts....nowt new there

for anyone who saw the piece and wants to complain - Irelandam@tv3.ie

ShawnRaven

Mark Cagney is the lowest form of scum ever to grace Irish television and radio. He's a patronising **** who 9 times out of 10 hasn't a clue what he's talking about, to his depends, most presenters don't and they have researchers to do the job for them but in this case they were way off.

I also think CPW are taking a huge gamble in commenting about this, as i would if ANY Irish promotion did the same. Especially on how sketchy the details were. On the flip side of that everyone else is throwing their oar in from Jacques Rougeau to Brian Christopher.

VR!

Fozzy

Vince135792003 wrote:

She quoted the story, asked how WWE could say steroids could not have been a factor in the Benoit Family Tragedy, and then when McMahon denied they said that, she quoted the statement saying exactly that once again. She was prepared well for the interview and even got McMahon to say that steroids could have played a role, although he discounted roid rage because of the three-day spread of events.

In fairness to WWE, their exact wording was that "steroids were not, and could not, be related to the cause of death (asphyxiation)". Unless you choke on steroids, what they said is true on that point, although Vince didn't seem too sure of what they had on the website

I read a report where they said ten empty beer cans were found in the house and an empty bottle of wine was found in the same room as Chris. So will the media start linking alcohol to what happened? Not likely. WWE have also said that when Chris took four months off last year it was related to depression

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

Vince didn't seem too sure of what they had on the website

They took the statement down pretty quickly too thereafter.

In relation to Vince's interview on Good Morning America, I hated his answer to the amount of deaths in wrestling when he stated that out of the 60 referred to, only 5 were under contract with him. Its way more complicated than that and like Mitchell said was callous.

Ph3n0m

apology from mystery wiki editor

Hey everyone. I am here to talk about the wikipedia comment that was left by myself. I just want to say that it was an incredible coincidence. Last weekend, I had heard about Chris Benoit no showing Vengeance because of a family emergency, and I had heard rumors about why that was. I was reading rumors and speculation about this matter online, and one of them included that his wife may have passed away, and I did the wrong thing by posting it on wikipedia to spite there being no evidence. I posted my speculation on the situation at the time and I am deeply sorry about this, and I was just as shocked as everyone when I heard that this actually would happen in real life. It is one of those things that just turned into a huge coincidence. That night I found out that what I posted, ended up actually happening, a 1 in 10,000 chance of happening, or so I thought. I was beyond wrong for posting wrongful information, and I am sorry to everyone for this. I just want everyone to know it was stupid of me, and I will never do anything like this again. I just posted something that was at that time a piece of wrong unsourced information that is typical on wikipedia, as it is done all the time.

Nonetheless, I feel incredibly bad for all the attention this got because of the fact that what I said turned out to be the truth. Like I said it was just a major coincidence, and I will never vandalize anything on wikipedia or post wrongful information. I've learned from this experience. I just can't believe what I wrote was actually the case, I've remained stunned and saddened over it.

I wish not to reveal my identity so I can keep me and my family out of this since they have nothing to do with anything. I am not connected to WWE or Benoit at all in anyway. I am from Stamford as the IP address shows, and I am just an everyday individual who posted a wrongful remark at the time that received so much attention because it turned out to actually happen. I will say again I didn't know anything about the Benoit tragedy, it was a terrible coincidence that I never saw coming.

I hope this puts an end to this speculation that someone knew about the tragedy before it was discovered. It was just a rumor that I had heard about from other people online who were speculating what the family emergency Chris was attending to. I made a big mistake by posting this comment on his page, since all we had were what we thought was going on and nothing about what actually was going on yet, and sadly what happened turned out to be my speculation at the time. I assumed wiki would edit out my information, which they did, so thats why I didn't go back to edit it out myself.

I know I keep repeating it but I feel terrible about the mainstream coverage this has received, since it was only a huge coincidence and a terrible event that should of never happened. I am not sure how to react, as hearing about my message becoming a huge part of the Benoit slayings made me feel terrible as everyone believes that it is connected to the tragedy, but it was just an awful coincidence. That is all I have to say, I will never post anything here again unless it is pure fact, no spam nothing like that. Thank you, and let this end this chapter of the Benoit story, and hopefully one day we will find out why this tragedy ever actually happened.

After reading, I have to say this smacks of someone in WWE covering their asses - my main arguement is - why bothering posting a rumour on Benoit's wiki page?