All Benoit Discussion In Here

shinzon

what got me at the end of the interview was aidan cooney commenting on the fact that benoits finishing maneuvre was a stranglehold

I mean WTF has that got to do with anything, this whole piece was poorly produced researched and above all badly presented and IMO does a disservice to Nancy and Daniels memory

trash journalism at its very worst

Shin

Ph3n0m

a 2 second search on the wiki gets you this info

"The most common variant sees a wrestler lock one arm of a fallen opponent, who is belly down on the mat with the wrestler on top and to the side, and placing it between their legs before locking their hands around the opponent's chin or face and pulling back to stretch the opponent's neck and shoulder. This variation was innovated by Dean Malenko, and popularised by Chris Benoit as the Crippler Crossface."

So I am wondering - where the word "stranglehold" appears in that text

Fozzy

Ph3n0m wrote:

After reading, I have to say this smacks of someone in WWE covering their asses - my main arguement is - why bothering posting a rumour on Benoit's wiki page?

People vandalise Wikipedia all the time, I don't think it's any different in this case except that it turned out to be true

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

Its obviously a very emotive subject. Everyone has an opinion as a result and its no less valid than anybody elses.

For example, I would be less positive towards Vince than many for example but I can see where people are coming from when they say he has handled it well.

Anyway heres an interesting column by Bruce Mitchell, senior columnist of the torch:

To: WWE

The media storm around the Chris Benoit double murder/suicide isn’t going to be spun away from WWE now. Still, you can do a better job with the media than you have so far. This isn’t steering your loyal fans to think the media is picking on you again. This is the real world.

Still, you finally made one good move when you pulled those “news” updates from your website. In this thing, the fewer targets you present to a so-far-ravenous-media the better. There are some more things you can do to help yourself:

• Out in the real world when you promise an apology, like you did to the media for giving Chris Benoit a three hour tribute show when you knew there was a strong possibility he murdered his family, people expect to hear the words “We’re sorry.” The real world doesn’t know or care that Vince McMahon promised his fans he “wasn’t going to take any crap off anybody ever again” and that WWE fans might be disappointed if Mr. McMahon showed weakness.

• Don’t send Vince McMahon out there to answer questions from real reporters like Meredith Vieira, who might look at their notes to check if he’s wrong or not. Send Mick Foley to take the heat. Do it for three reasons: 1. You don’t much like him. 2. The world doesn’t think of him as a vulgar, hustling promoter or remember when he tried to bully that cute little Bob Costas. 3. Foley won’t be so callous to clam that wrestling deaths don’t count unless the dead person is under contract to your company at the time he/she died. If the media starts counting the number of dead wrestlers under 45 who worked for WWE at one time or another and McMahon trots out that line again, Meredith Vieira will look like Nancy Grace shilling your WWE Iraq tour.

• If anyone asks for the copy of "Muscle & Fitness" with Vince McMahon on the cover, claim all your copies were ruined in that basement flood at Shane McMahon’s house.

• Get down or your knees and pray the media doesn’t figure out “negative” doesn’t mean “no steroids” in your Wellness Policy or that it allows multiple times more steroids in your performers than does any other sport which tests its athletes.

• Don’t forget to also pray they don’t learn what a “mark” doctor is willing to do to hang out with a professional wrestler or that doctors are legally only allowed to prescribe steroids and human growth hormone for FDA-approved reasons. Sadly, that doesn’t include muscle building.

• Hope that no one in the media hears what happened to WWE Superstar Chris Masters’s TV time and pay when he shrunk the way he did after the Policy went into effect or what happened when he regained the muscle mass he lost.

• Don’t bother praying that Chris Benoit’s toxicology report comes back negative for steroids. Some things are out of the hands of even God.

• Tread easy on that Fragile X stuff. No one goes into a rage and strangles their special needs child’s primary caregiver over where to send him to school.

• Don’t try to heel the wife, either, even if it would help your company to make your WWE Superstar a little less of a monster. Folks don’t take kindly to blaming murder victims.

• Get in front of this story by announcing a real plan to make your wrestlers’ lives better.

Great points.
I thought his performance on the Today show and his announcement on ECW were not very good. As this columnist above says he should be more forthcoming and pro-active about addressing the malaise in WWE culture.
This will prove he cares about the men who make him lots of money and prove me wrong that his primary motivation isn't always about making a buck at the expense of the well-being of his Wrestlers.

DarkJager

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1272964,00.html

Fozzy

The LA Times are reporting that Benoit's doctor may be charged as early as today with prescribing steroids without a proper need for them: http://www.wrestlemag.com/news/index.php?p=6218

Ph3n0m

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1272824,00.html

a very fair and honest opinion piece

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

If anyone has ever thought about buying an issue of the Wrestling Observer, this might be the week to do it.

can you buy just the one issue?how much is it?

fatal

Ph3n0m wrote:

apology from mystery wiki editor



After reading, I have to say this smacks of someone in WWE covering their asses - my main arguement is - why bothering posting a rumour on Benoit's wiki page?

The statement does seem that way to me also.....
I also asked myself the same question as you did after I read it

fatal

Ph3n0m wrote:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1272824,00.html

a very fair and honest opinion piece

Thanks for sharing....
I really liked that unbiased article....maybe because it was written by someone that knows what they are talking about.
Steroids are good or bad depending on how you use them...thats the bottomline

Vince135792003

fatal wrote:

can you buy just the one issue?how much is it?

For the rest of the world, rates are $20.50 for 6, $46 for 14, $81 for 26 and $131 for 42 issues. There is a $1 processing fee for all non-check or cash orders.

To get a subscription started, you can do so by Visa or Master Card by sending your name, address, phone number, Visa or Master Card number and an expiration date to Dave@wrestlingobserver.com or by faxing to 408-244-3402. You can also subscribe through pay pal by sending to http://www.paypal.com. You can also subscribe by check, cash, money order or Visa or Master Card through the mail by sending to Wrestling Observer, P.O. Box 1228, Campbell, CA 95009-1228.



Basically, you can get 6 issues for 15 euro which works out at 2.50 an issue. I'd recommend it. Your definitely not short changed on content.

ShawnRaven

The guy hit the nail on the head though with this one quote
"Whatever the reason the guy was not in a good place mentally and a tragic situation came about."

And it doesn't take steroids to put you over the edge mentally, there could be a million and one factors. Sadly the chances are we'll never know them.

VR!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

validreasoning! wrote:

He was tested two months ago and tested negative according to the reports.
Sweet christ, i'm starting to believe that people either can't or don't read anymore!!

VR!

but they are not tested for everything. e.g. jeff hardy was fired for taking a drug that was illegel in canada, not the US, he was tested in canada, therefore the drugs were illegal. cant remember what it was he tuck

whitelightrider

validreasoning! wrote:

The guy hit the nail on the head though with this one quote
"Whatever the reason the guy was not in a good place mentally and a tragic situation came about."

And it doesn't take steroids to put you over the edge mentally, there could be a million and one factors. Sadly the chances are we'll never know them.

VR!

VR, I think your statement sums this whole tragedy up. It's obvious that Chris was not in a good place mentally and his family were the unfortunate victims in all of this. We'll never know what went on behind the doors of that house.

HBK

'Chris Benoit was a "delusional juice freak" who chased the dark side and had trouble distinguishing between his fictional character and reality, says the man who started him out in professional wrestling.

"The last time I saw him he was in pretty rough shape mentally," said Bruce Hart, son of the legendary Stu Hart. "I didn't know all the details but I knew it wasn't good. I was not at all shocked (by what happened).'

"If I could see and determine that in a few visits, how the hell could they (World Wrestling Entertainment) not have known something was wrong? (In my opinion) I think the WWE needs to re-evaluate what it is doing here."

hmmm...

ShawnRaven

Cara Short Dollhouse wrote:

but they are not tested for everything. e.g. jeff hardy was fired for taking a drug that was illegel in canada, not the US, he was tested in canada, therefore the drugs were illegal. cant remember what it was he tuck

No Jeff was fired because Ross had urged him several times to go to rehab and Jeff told Ross "no" because he felt he didn't have a problem (a statement that was and still is debatable to this day). You might be confusing him with Brian Christopher for trying to take drugs across the Canadian border.

The point is the guy was mentally ill at the time he committed the murders. Drugs have f*ck all to do with it to be honest, and i don't think the toxicity report is going to change that, regardless if there is sh*t found in his system or not.

VR!

ShawnRaven

HBK wrote:

'Chris Benoit was a "delusional juice freak" who chased the dark side and had trouble distinguishing between his fictional character and reality, says the man who started him out in professional wrestling.

Aw come on Bruce, maybe you should look a bit closer to home there!

"The last time I saw him he was in pretty rough shape mentally," said Bruce Hart, son of the legendary Stu Hart. "I didn't know all the details but I knew it wasn't good. I was not at all shocked (by what happened).'

"If I could see and determine that in a few visits, how the hell could they (World Wrestling Entertainment) not have known something was wrong? (In my opinion) I think the WWE needs to re-evaluate what it is doing here."

I dunno, it's very difficult to believe a word that comes out of a Hart's mouth, Bret changes his stories as often as he changes his underwear (how many people taught you the sharpshooter anyway Bret?), Diana is a lying tramp and her book exposes her page after page,

I'm trying to keep objective on a very volitile situation with a very tragic end. Bruce obviously doesn't understand that WWE have quite a lot of talent to keep an eye on as opposed to one or two trainees a week. Three different rosters and three different road schedules. And quite frankly, i don't think Bruce Hart could have done any better given the position of Vince!

Edit: One more thing, If Bruce could determine it in a few visits, then why the hell didn't he try to do something about it?
VR!

Vince135792003

http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_1041332_Chris_Jericho_on_Nancy_Grace_Discussing_Chris_Beno.htm Part 1
http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_1041345_Chris_Jericho_on_Nancy_Grace_Pt_2.htm Part 2

Chris Jericho on the Nancy Grace (who is clueless although I think she means well) show. Good job by Jericho though.

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_1041332_Chris_Jericho_on_Nancy_Grace_Discussing_Chris_Beno.htm Part 1
http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_1041345_Chris_Jericho_on_Nancy_Grace_Pt_2.htm Part 2

Chris Jericho on the Nancy Grace (who is clueless although I think she means well) show. Good job by Jericho though.

well done to chris jericho for returning to the point about 3 people being killed time and time again instead of wasting his time (yet again!) discussing "roid rage"

Vince135792003

fatal wrote:

well done to chris jericho for returning to the point about 3 people being killed time and time again instead of wasting his time (yet again!) discussing "roid rage"

I think the approach of some media honing in on simply "roid rage" is misguided. However like I've said earlier, I have no problem with the WWE getting scrutinized more heavily by the media if something positive be it small or big comes out of it for wrestlers.

The line trotted out on the Today show by Vince that only 5 wrestlers have died under contract by his company is disingenuous and it annoyed me. Yes, ultimately we all have a responsibility for the choices we make but there is a culture in wrestling that leads way too many people into coffins before they're 50.

Just on Bruce Hart, I read the whole article and not just the quotes listed above. I thought it was a solid enough piece.

Again, I don't want to get away from the real tragedy in all of this though as well. You read so many stories, theories and opinions that even after only 4 days, the awful tragedy that happened can get lost.

RebelRockChick

Atlanta television station WSB-TV has posted a new article on their web site featuring a new interview with Chris Benoit’s father, Michael Benoit. Michael said in the piece that his son was “fine” when they spoke on Father’s Day. He said in the interview that he was unaware of any problems between Chris and Nancy.

When the steroids issue that the mainstream media has focused on was brought up, Michael Benoit said, "There's a lot of stories we know have been fabricated"

Michael also commented on Nancy family saying, "We pray desperately that Nancy's family is able to deal with this situation."

Full article here

Vince135792003

Wife of wrestler who passed away young speaks out on the profession

by Debbie Fernandez www.wrestlingobserver.com

My name is Debbie Fernandez, wife of the late Ray “Hercules” Fernandez and I am writing to you because I am sickened by the recent tragic event to strike the Wrestling World.

I am also appalled at the fact that Vince McMahon is trying to play off the idea that there is not a Steroid Use problem in the WWE. After Ray died, I was too devastated to open up a discussion regarding the deadly role that Steroid use plays in the lives of these wrestlers, but now, after seeing yet another tragedy, I must speak up. Vince McMahon acquires these young men, who are eager to join the world of wrestling, and who do not know any better and think that they are going to be rich and famous, but at what price?

He all but preaches that his Wrestlers do not take Steroids, and they are periodically tested, now does anyone really believe that? There is a reason why so many Wrestlers have died at such a young age, partly due to the Steroid use, and most importantly because most of them end their wrestling career with NOTHING!

They have no health benefits, they have no retirement, and they are just tossed out like yesterdays trash. The only one who benefits from their blood, sweat and tears is Vince McMahon. They wrestle when their sick or hurt because they are so scared to lose their jobs, and they will, so the only way that they can stay in the game is to take steroids. Does Vince McMahon really expect us to believe that he knows nothing about the wrestlers using steroids?

The problem is that like my husband, many of the wrestlers from that era were too loyal to the profession to say anything, because if you rocked the boat, you knew you were on your way out. They just had to suck it up and do whatever it took to keep their jobs. They control everything you do professionally and personally, right down to picking your accountant, so that he can steal you blind. With all the money that the WWE brings in, you would think that they would take care of their investments and offer them the proper benefits that they and their families deserve.

Now, I do not believe that Chris Benoit’s actions were caused by Steroid use, but, I do feel that Vince McMahon should be held accountable for the fact that he IS aware of everything that is going on, and that the majority of Wrestlers do take Steroids. When is it going to be enough?

When are these guys going to join together and realize that unless they stand up to McMahon and fight for the benefits that they deserve, and that the WWE can afford to give them, they are headed for an early grave.


Sincerely,
Debbie Fernandez

fatal

kentonbomb wrote:

:rolleyes: why is everyone still respecting benoit he is a murderer, how can you respect a guy who kills his 7 year old son and his wife, thats sick IMO

Well i hope its not true but RIP benoits

Obviously I can see why you disrespect him as a human being.However I do and will always respect him as a wrestler.It would be wrong to lose respect for his in ring talent

justbringit89

I hear same **** people laughing saying that he killed his wife by doing the crippler crossface on her !! such ****e some people think its ok to take the piss because they are wrestlers !! In fairness an innocent Women and Child are dead !!

I have no respect in any way for chris even though he was talented he commited murder !! he was a ''monster''

kronsington

we all know he was undeniably talented, a true in-ring great.. but the sad truth is, that what transpired this week has overshadowed all that to a large extent. personally, i dont envisage myself watching another benoit match again. the man committed a double murder, leaving behind two parentless children and devastating countless others through his cowardly acts. its like michael jackson: an absolute legend, musical genius, legendary performer but mainly he will be remembered for his bizarre personal life like drinking "jesus juice" in bed with minors and hanging a baby over a ****ing balcony! this is what these people will be remembered for and it impacts on our overall perception of them. it's what people are thats important, not what they were.

Ph3n0m

# Benoit "loving person," ex-wife says
Chris Benoit's former wife, Martina Benoit, said the star wrestler "was the most loving person anyone could imagine. I love him." Reached at her home in Ardrossan, Alberta, Canada, Benoit called reporting of the killings in Fayette County "crap." She did not elaborate before ending the call.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2007/06/29/0629exwife.html

# Benoit's family shocked by murder-suicide, hoping tests provide closure
ATLANTA -- Pro wrestler Chris Benoit's father said Friday that he was eager to see whether chemical tests can help explain why Benoit killed his wife and son and committed suicide, acts that the wrestler's father said he had no clue were coming. Michael Benoit said by phone from his home in Alberta, Canada, that his family is shocked and in disbelief over the slayings.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2919341

# Police: Wiki Confession an 'Unbelievable Hindrance'
Computers Tied to Wikipedia Posting About Nancy Benoit Seized by Authorities
Authorities in Connecticut have seized computer equipment from a person they believe posted an entry about Nancy Benoit's death on Wikipedia roughly 14 hours before the entire Benoit family was found dead in their Atlanta-area home by police.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=3327310&page=1

# Bruce Hart says killer Benoit had trouble with reality
Chris Benoit was a "delusional juice freak" who chased the dark side and had trouble distinguishing between his fictional character and reality, says the man who started him out in professional wrestling. "The last time I saw him he was in pretty rough shape mentally," said Bruce Hart, son of the legendary Stu Hart. "I didn't know all the details but I knew it wasn't good. I was not at all shocked (by what happened). "If I could see and determine that in a few visits, how the hell could they (World Wrestling Entertainment) not have known something was wrong? (In my opinion) I think the WWE needs to re-evaluate what it is doing here."
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2007/06/29/4299824-sun.html

# Steroids not at root of Benoit's problems: Hart
MONTREAL – As police in Georgia continue to probe the possibility of a steroid link to explain why Canadian wrestler Chris Benoit killed his family and committed suicide, a close friend and colleague says drugs aren't to blame for his death. Bret "Hitman" Hart described Benoit as level-headed and down-to-earth, and rejected the image of a moody, quiet wrestler who kept to himself in the locker-room. "I never saw him lose his temper or act strange or weird," Hart said in a telephone interview. "I don't remember Chris as being a guy who took a lot of pills or drank too hard. "I think you'll find over the next few weeks this steroid thing was played up too much."
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/230623

Fozzy

There's an article here that says that $15 million was wiped off WWE's stock this week: http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/_news/news_365390.php I've also heard that the Italian broadcaster that shows WWE has pulled all their shows. I can't agree with that to be honest

There was another business article I read that called what WWE did during the week "one of the biggest mistakes in the history of press releases"

FX Meister

Fozzy wrote:

I've also heard that the Italian broadcaster that shows WWE has pulled all their shows. I can't agree with that to be honest

What can't you agree? WWE would have know that something was wrong with BEnoit. They turn a blind eye as long as the money keeps rolling in. As soon as they have what they want from you they just cast you aside. FACT. Well done to the Italian broadcaster who is taking a stand. BUt I'm sure someone else will be there to take over from them. Just like when WWE dropped Angle there was no shortage of cpmpanies willing to sign him up even though he was a physical and mental wreck.

Fozzy

I read a bit more on it, the channel only shows SD and has a younger audience than the Italian channel that shows Raw, ECW and ppvs. They say they did it for the kids. I just don't agree with it. It seems as though no one knew anything about him being depressed recently, everyone except Bruce Hart anyway, so how can you say that WWE would have known something was wrong with him? His best friends didn't know anything was wrong with him, his father didn't know. By not showing WWE shows they're punishing the wrestlers and the fans as much as Vince

Benoit's doctor's office was raided again by the Drugs Enforcement Agency, and the guy's mother's house was raided too. He's gone missing in the last two days

Two bad media reports were mentioned on the Observer site, on one show they almost said that Kevin Sullivan should be a suspect and on another one they were almost claiming Vince probably framed Benoit apparently

FX Meister

Vince framed him for what?

RebelRockChick

Bill DeMott and Debra Marshall appeared on Hannity and Colmes on FOX News tonight and got into a heated argument over the roid rage. DeMott downplayed the role of steroids in wrestling and also tried to take heat off of WWE, saying they had nothing to do with this. Debra continued to say that she knew what roid rage could do because she was on the receiving end of attacks from Steve Austin that she felt were the result of steroid use. She also said that WWE and Vince McMahon need to have stricter testing. Debra also talked about how many of her friends in wrestling have gotten upset at her for "hurting the industry" by talking about steroids and Steve Austin's attacks on her. Sean Hannity seemed to defend Debra and kept grilling DeMott about wrestling hiding dirty secrets but DeMott refused to bite, saying that as far as he knew, steroid use was not major in wrestling.

- The Ultimate Warrior did not appear on Hannity and Colmes tonight due to the show devoting more time to the London car bombing. He is scheduled to appear on the show on Monday now, assuming the national media is still covering the story at this rate then.

I was actually watching that show on Fox last night that had DeMott and Debra on. Debra kept going back to the topic of steroid use being related to attacks from Austin when they were married and DeMott continued to say, why is she only speaking out about it now when something like this happened, why didn't she come out with it 5 years ago....which tbh, I agree with.

I think someone else here was saying about Bruce Hart saying he noticed something wrong with Benoit but he didn't say anything...and is only coming out about it now, why didn't he say something to someone before if it's true?

shinzon

The Ultimate Warrior did not appear on Hannity and Colmes tonight due to the show devoting more time to the London car bombing. He is scheduled to appear on the show on Monday now, assuming the national media is still covering the story at this rate then

I have to say if warrior does appear, it will be compelling viewing


Shin

FX Meister

shinzon wrote:

I have to say if warrior does appear, it will be compelling viewing


Shin

He will probably no show as he usually does

nacho libre

Sometimes friends are too corrupt- what i mean by this is they lack the dispassion and clinical objectivity of a stranger, to notice anything is amiss. you'd think those closest would be the first to know if something is wrong but sadly often times this isn't the case when it comes to Depression. An associate or someone you meet from time to time may notice what friends don't. This is why i'm inclined to believe Bruce Hart but like others have said why the hell didn't he be pro-active!!

FX Meister

Maybe he didn't think it would het him anywhere? Maybe he was too lazy. Isn't Bruce Hart a bit out of whack himself?

fatal

FX Meister wrote:

Maybe he didn't think it would het him anywhere? Maybe he was too lazy. Isn't Bruce Hart a bit out of whack himself?

actually when I read his statement about benoit,I said the same thing to myself
It takes a whack to know a whack

FX Meister

He's never gotten over being the unknown Hart.

Vince135792003

I don't want to over analyse one article out of literally hundreds on Benoit by Bruce Hart.

In his defense on why he didn't say anything, well maybe he didn't feel it was his place. Everyone has read what a private guy Chris was and certainly Bruce Hart wouldn't be the first person in the world who was incapable of dealing with the issue of mental health.

Secondly, its the wrestling business. I'm sure he's seen lots of strange and stranger behavior than what Benoit exhibited.

The sad reality is that wrestling is a pretty dirty industry. Look at Sherri Martel dieing in her mam's trailer home not having any money to get back surgery. Look at Konnan, a huge star in Mexico but when it comes time for his transplant, he needs to raise money for it off internet fans. Unfortunately these aren't one off examples.

Thats why I really, really hope something positive comes out of this horrible situation. It won't bring anybody back but it might just save some family in the future. The reality is change will either have to happen externally by government regulation or internally amongst the wrestlers. I think Vince is just incapable of doing it on his own steam. He has shown that so far. I'd love to say in 6 months I was wrong about Vince though.

Just to defend Debra who is also a pretty polarizing person, I think she has a right to talk about what happened to her now even if it was 5 years ago.

I have to be honest that when I heard about what went on with her and Austin, I ignored it like a lot of people because its not fun watching Austin with that in the back of your mind. Regardless though of how great a wrestler someone is, domestic abuse is something you shouldn't turn a blind eye to and she should have the right to talk about it.

Mr.Nice Guy

whitelightrider wrote:

Im sorry about replying like this, but I think some of your statements are a bit harsh. I too thought the world of Chris Benoit. Ive followed his wrestling for years and have to say that he was one of the greatest wrestlers I have ever seen. And like you I have to commend Vince McMahon for the way he handled this situation.

But where do you figure out that this was a calculated act? Going by each news report and reading the messages that Chris sent his friends it seems more like a frenzied attach. He killed Nancy first and then left it almost a day before killing Daniel. How is this calculated???

I consider it calculated because if it were a "frenzied attack" how come he apparently waited a day before killing his son? He then left a Bible beside his son's body and knowing what he had done and the consequences he would face, he took his own life. I consider that extreme cowardice.

I'm not saying Benoit was thinking clearly but equally he was not some wild beast foaming at the mouth who was unaware of what he was doing.

whitelightrider wrote:

I tend to agree with statements made that after killing Nancy in what was definitely a frezied attack, Chris realised what he had done. Rather than leave Daniel, who has Fragile X syndrome alone, he decided to end his life and also end his own.

That last line doesn't sit right, man. Are you suggesting that the murder of his son should be seen in some sort of noble light?

whitelightrider wrote:

My point is that we will never know what happened inside the Benoit home that weekend and I really dont think it's fair to judge anyone without hearing their side of the story. Unfortunately in this case we will never hear it. May the Benoit family rest in peace.

Well I think it's definitely fair to make judgements in this situation. What Benoit did was inexcusable. I've read other websites with people saying that they'll still appreciate Benoit's wrestling, Benoit before this happened etc. Personally I don't know how they can do that. Forever more he will be known as 'Benoit the murderer'. I've even gone and deleted the matches I had of him on my PC and I won't watch any of his matches again. How can anybody? They're forever tainted.

This guy could have gone down in history as a legend based on his years of work inside the ring but he tainted that legacy and wrote himself a new one when he committed those terrible acts and now he will be forever looked down upon - and rightly so.

He was a hero to me but I can never look at him in such a way ever again. I can never root for him in a wrestling match ever again. I can never cheer upon the conclusion of WM20 ever again. Frankkly that makes me angry and very disillusioned.

Vince135792003

I just read a review of the Wrestling Observer this week from a guy who wouldn't mess around with this sort of a situation. Below I'll quote directly what he wrote were the main points in the Observer. A quick warning, this is not a comfortable read. It couldn't get much worse.

Here it is:

-Benoit got a prescription for the anti-depressant Zoloft at the doctor's visit on Friday.

-Benoit started going downhill after Eddy died because he lost the one guy who he could confide in and shared his problems with. Apparently close friends always knew Benoit had the same problems as Eddy (pills, etc.) and suggested Benoit seriously needed to see a therapist but no one suggested it since he wasn't the type to be open to that sort of thing.

-Dave confirmed he used a form of the Crippler Crossface on Daniel. This is interesting since Bryan was adamant that the story was bull****. Apparently investigators found marks on the boys arm and face that they didn't understand and upon watching a tape of a Benoit match and seeing the move it made sense. There were no marks on the neck. They just said it was a "choke" as to not further sensationalize an already sensationalized story.

-Dave said Bryan Alvarez was closer to Benoit (he found his writing hilarious) then he was and that Dave hardly ever talked to Chris (while Bryan seemed to indicate semi regular contact).

-Apparently the death of Johnny Grunge hit Benoit even harder then Eddy since they were neighbors and him and Nancy fighting was somewhat common and he'd be the one to come over and defuse situations and make Chris laugh. After he died, Chris didn't have that buffer when things got out of control.


-Chris recently opened up a new life insurance claim naming his ex-wife and his older 2 kids as the beneficiaries and refused to include Nancy or Daniel.

-When there were rumors of him leaving for TNA, Dave asked him about it and Chris was paranoid thinking Dave had inside info that WWE was going to release him. He apparently may have thought ECW was a demotion and the next step would be out the door. He was reportedly obsessed with establishing himself at the HHH/HBK level. He had grown increasingly paranoid that someone was out to get him and didn't let Nancy leave the house at night or Daniel to play outside and would take different routes from the airport home each time in case he was being followed.

-Nancy confided to a friend in wrestling days before the murders that she feared for her life and the friend told her to go take Daniel to her parents place in Florida (as she had done before when Chris became violent) but she didn't this time. Apparently she had a lockbox at the bank with notes indicating if something happened to her, it was Chris.

-Theory is that she told him she was leaving him for good and taking Daniel and that's when he snapped on her. Loved his son and when she filed for divorce all he wanted was joint custody. Theory is he killed Daniel because in his mind he couldn't bare to let him be alone without his parents and in his condition so it was a "mercy killing".

-Someone in WWE informed Dave before the RAW show that Chris had killed them, but others in the company were unaware but at least someone high up knew before the tribute show was put on the air.

-How's this for eerie. When Vince called all the guys in the ring before RAW to give the news, the stage had been decorated with a casket, reefs, candles with Vince's picture, etc. like a funeral. Talent was told to bring dark suits like a funeral to the taping. I'm sure that was a blast. Vince apparently handled it really well, told anyone who wanted to go home would not be disciplined but guys were basket cases and trying to think of some rationalization (carbon monoxide, etc.)

-Nancy visited Dr. Astin on Thursday asking questions about how she could raise Daniel on her own.

-Dave gave a description of the common profile of men who kill their whole families and it was eerily similar to Benoit (hard working, driven, experienced a loss, a few friends but no real support system, anxiety, etc."

-Said Chris was constantly anxious about something. When he was at home he was worried about wrestling, when wrestling he was worried about his family.

-Regal was a neighbor of Benoit's and Grunge and would have know about the home troubles so that sheds some light on his "tribute".

-Dave says he can't write a proper obit/career retrospect and doesn't know if he ever will.

Goebels

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-Nancy visited Dr. Astin on Thursday asking questions about how she could raise Daniel on her own.

-Dave gave a description of the common profile of men who kill their whole families and it was eerily similar to Benoit (hard working, driven, experienced a loss, a few friends but no real support system, anxiety, etc."

-Said Chris was constantly anxious about something. When he was at home he was worried about wrestling, when wrestling he was worried about his family.

-How's this for eerie. When Vince called all the guys in the ring before RAW to give the news, the stage had been decorated with a casket, reefs, candles with Vince's picture, etc. like a funeral. Talent was told to bring dark suits like a funeral to the taping. I'm sure that was a blast. Vince apparently handled it really well, told anyone who wanted to go home would not be disciplined but guys were basket cases and trying to think of some rationalization (carbon monoxide, etc.)

-Regal was a neighbor of Benoit's and Grunge and would have know about the home troubles so that sheds some light on his "tribute".

fatal

there are new more chilling developments to this case day by day

Vince135792003

All the notes from the observer are very disturbing, I agree. The one about life assurance and writing it in the name of his 2 kids and ex-wife but not his wife and young son shocked me.

Fozzy

Just something you might find interesting, on a Raw house show report sent in to the Observer, the guy who was at the show said that during the Cena vs Orton match Randy did a sharpshooter on Cena. The guy said the last time he ever remembers him doing that move was against Benoit when he beat him for the title. He said that when Randy got it locked in, he leaned back and looked up and shouted "why?". The guy seems very certain he saw it as his mates saw it too, he said Randy looked sad and sincere when he did it

fatal

Fozzy wrote:

Just something you might find interesting, on a Raw house show report sent in to the Observer, the guy who was at the show said that during the Cena vs Orton match Randy did a sharpshooter on Cena. The guy said the last time he ever remembers him doing that move was against Benoit when he beat him for the title. He said that when Randy got it locked in, he leaned back and looked up and shouted "why?". The guy seems very certain he saw it as his mates saw it too, he said Randy looked sad and sincere when he did it

I did wonder when Vince apologised on ECW if any of the wrestlers would use any of benoit's signature moves as a sort of tribute to him.
It seems like the wrestlers don't know much more than we do regarding "why" it happened.
Very sad indeed

Vince135792003

fatal wrote:

I did wonder when Vince apologised on ECW if any of the wrestlers would use any of benoit's signature moves as a sort of tribute to him.

I don't think you'll ever see the Crossface in the WWE again or at least for a very, very long time.

By the way, for anyone whose not burnt out yet on coverage of the whole thing (I think I am), I'll try and get an MP3 file for Wrestling Observer live up by late Monday morning.

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

I don't think you'll ever see the Crossface in the WWE again or at least for a very, very long time.

By the way, for anyone whose not burnt out yet on coverage of the whole thing (I think I am), I'll try and get an MP3 file for Wrestling Observer live up by late Monday morning.

phew I thought that I was the only one..
yea dude that would be awesome if you could do that.
thanks
Yea i agree,I dont think that you will see anything like the crossface or diving head butt anytime soon

Fozzy

I haven't read any specific reports but I have read an article that said there were some cases of guys on indy shows during the last few days who've used some of Benoit's moves for cheap heat. That's a stupid thing to do, although I was half-expecting to hear about it

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote:

I don't think you'll ever see the Crossface in the WWE again or at least for a very, very long time.

I'd tend to disagree here, considering Backlund was using it in WWE long before Benoit. They could just use his name instead.

VR!

Fozzy

validreasoning! wrote:

I'd tend to disagree here, considering Backlund was using it in WWE long before Benoit. They could just use his name instead.

Key word being "before". I seriously doubt you'll ever see it in WWE again