Alfa Spider '96

justdoit

I drove a '96 Alfa Romeo Spider until last week, when the temperature gauge spiked and a load of smoke and steam came from under the hood. It turned out to be as bad as I feared, and has been diagnosed as the head gask set needing replacement, along with spark plugs etc- long story short, the quote I've been given is over €2k, including over €1k for labour.

I'm looking around for quotes at the moment, but the garage have told me they'd take the car off my hands as it is for €1500- am I being ripped off?

I know very little about cars, but did love this one. That said, my fear is that if I spend all this money on repairs, it may give up next week anyway- it's 11 years old, and is an Alfa, after all.

It would pain me to give it away for so little, but part of me is saying to wash my hands of it- any thoughts?

ballooba

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ALFA-ROMEO-GTV-SPIDER-2-0-16V-ENGINE-GEARBOX_W0QQitemZ220125523646QQihZ012QQcategoryZ10370QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

RobAMerc

2k is ridiculous for a head gasket.
We had it replaced on my wifes Punto for €150 including head skimming.
(although the mechanic is a friend of the family).

I would keep ringing around - mechanics here take the piss when they think you've got something out of the ordinary (ie not a toyissan sewing machine).

You'll pick up a head gasket set from the uk easy enough, check out the owners forums - you'll end up giving away a cracking car for peanuts otherwise.

ballooba

Yep, the engine in my link is half the cost they are asking for parts. Complete rip-off.

cancan

Please post the name of the garage so others can avoid it.

Sound like a bunch of cowboys.

Ibjiba

cancan wrote:

Please post the name of the garage so others can avoid it.

Sound like a bunch of cowboys.

Gah I hate garages like that. Please help us avoid it!

bjmotors

justdoit wrote:

I drove a '96 Alfa Romeo Spider until last week, when the temperature gauge spiked and a load of smoke and steam came from under the hood. It turned out to be as bad as I feared, and has been diagnosed as the head gask set needing replacement, along with spark plugs etc- long story short, the quote I've been given is over €2k, including over €1k for labour.

I'm looking around for quotes at the moment, but the garage have told me they'd take the car off my hands as it is for €1500- am I being ripped off?

I know very little about cars, but did love this one. That said, my fear is that if I spend all this money on repairs, it may give up next week anyway- it's 11 years old, and is an Alfa, after all.

It would pain me to give it away for so little, but part of me is saying to wash my hands of it- any thoughts?

haha 2k is nonsense! dont mind them. the reason that gave you that figure is because thay want to buy it and do a cheap fix on it and sell it then for a big profit. robbers.:mad:

Mr.Diagnostic

Do any of you who have slated the garage know what is involved in doing this job? Or what was included in the qoute?

siralfalot

€2k is utter nonsence, ring TI Autos, Gerry Campbell 018386567, the guy is a genius with alfas, he should sort you out.

siralfalot

Mr.Diagnostic wrote:

Do any of you who have slated the garage know what is involved in doing this job? Or what was included in the qoute?

do you?

a decent alfa replacement t-spark engine will cost approx €1k, for anyone to suggest spending €2k on a head gasket replacement is mad

as for being given €1500 for the car, obviously I don't know its general condition apart from the engine but it sounds very low for a spider

Mr.Diagnostic

siralfalot wrote:

do you?

a decent alfa replacement t-spark engine will cost approx €1k, for anyone to suggest spending €2k on a head gasket replacement is mad

I specialise in Merc and BMW so i do not have actual prices or times for this particular job to hand, which is one of the reasons I asked.
The other reason I asked is because the price did not seem too high in my opinion, based on what I know about Alfa prices in general and the high cost of labour.

Without knowing what is included in the qoute how can anyone say it is too expensive. 12 to 15 ish hours maybe @ €80 to €100 per hour, machine shop charges, oil and filter, coolant, water pump, towing and all plus vat.

When you say a decent Alfa replacement engine will cost 1K what do you mean? used or exchange? inc t/belt kit, water pump, labour to fit etc etc. I am off the opinion that if you could find a used t/spark engine for €500 you would be doing well. Add all the bits you would need to that (t/belt kit etc) and labour to fit.

Like I say, I am not well up on Alfa prices but your !k estimate for an engine job seems very light. i do not think you could possibly do it for that price.

regards

ballooba

They quoted just under €1,000 euro for parts from what I saw. A new engine and gearbox is €1,000.

justdoit

Thanks for all the replies, but I think on this one Mr Diagnostic might be right. I've done a bit of shopping around, and it seems that it is a legitimate two day job, so labour comes up to over €1k. The head gasket itself only costs c€150, but spark plugs etc are also required.

I've also looked in to residual values on Alfas, and they are pretty poor across the board, so an 11 year old Spider is unlikely to fetch much more than €6k anyway.

It kills me, but I think I'm gonna have to take a hit on this one and take whatever I can get for the car in its current state, rather than pouring more cash in to it down the line. Dublin Bus had improved a lot of late, right?

Anan1

justdoit wrote:

Thanks for all the replies, but I think on this one Mr Diagnostic might be right. I've done a bit of shopping around, and it seems that it is a legitimate two day job, so labour comes up to over €1k. The head gasket itself only costs c€150, but spark plugs etc are also required.

I've also looked in to residual values on Alfas, and they are pretty poor across the board, so an 11 year old Spider is unlikely to fetch much more than €6k anyway.

It kills me, but I think I'm gonna have to take a hit on this one and take whatever I can get for the car in its current state, rather than pouring more cash in to it down the line. Dublin Bus had improved a lot of late, right?

I'd take siralfalot's advice and try calling Gerry Campbell first.

ballooba

Anan1 wrote:

I'd take siralfalot's advice and try calling Gerry Campbell first.

You reckon the username is not referring to the cute tv alien then?

Anan1

ballooba wrote:

You reckon the username is not referring to the cute tv alien then?

I'm just back from a 1,000 mile drive around Scotland, kind of typing away on autopilot here!;)

alias no.9

It'll cost you anything between €500 and €750 to get the timing belt done on a t-spark, even at an independent. If you consider that all of the labour involved in this will be included in a head gasket job, plus the parts because only a complete numty would neglect to actually change the timing belt while doing the head gasket, and on top of this add the cost of removing the head, getting it skimmed, replacing the gasket and rebuilding it. €2000 wouldn't be too far off the mark. Justdoit, what you could chance your arm at would be to ask them to do it for less, but fit it in to the gaps in their schedule over a few weeks, rather than them making time to do it straight away.

Mr.Diagnostic

Justdoit, there are a few more things to consider.

When an engine gets a roasting the bottom end of the engine can sustain damage. There is no cheap way to find this out in advance. You could end up in a position of having spent the price of the headgasket and still have further problems.

If the car was worth 6K (I dont know the value) and you like it then why not get them to drop the engine out, strip and check the bottom end. rebuild with new bearings, oil pump etc
I would guess you could do all that for somewhere in the region of 3.5k inc the gasket job.. Better deal than selling now for 1.5k.

siralfalot

ballooba wrote:

You reckon the username is not referring to the cute tv alien then?

he looks surprisingly like me!

Justdoit, ring TI autos before you decide anything, you're in Dublin right?

personally, I rarely buy parts for my cars in Ireland, usually from the UK and mainland Europe, way cheaper.

for example, check out alternative autos

also, a few threads to read:
link
link

galwaytt

it's not the parts that's killing the job, it's the labour. And even if you argue a few hours here/there, it's not even the no of hours. It's the hourly rate that's the problem.

I pay Eur 30/h down here. At that rate, it would pay you to tow/ship the car to Galway, spend as much as you like on parts, and still more than half your labour cost.

As for dropping the engine and the bottom end - don't bother. It's extremely unlikely it needs anything. Those engines in particular are over-engineered for day-day running.

maidhc

galwaytt wrote:

it's not the parts that's killing the job, it's the labour. And even if you argue a few hours here/there, it's not even the no of hours. It's the hourly rate that's the problem.

Exactly! Charging 100/hr for all the work is insane. For the specialised work sure, but monkey work like stripping (which will probably be done by an apprentice!) it is close to immoral.

Mr.Diagnostic

galwaytt wrote:

As for dropping the engine and the bottom end - don't bother. It's extremely unlikely it needs anything. Those engines in particular are over-engineered for day-day running.

On the contrary, these are famous for bottom end trouble under normal circumstances. In this case if it got a roasting then trouble is more likely.

redman

As others have posted ring Gerry in TI Autos...

MercMad

I agree with pretty much everything said here, €2k is not totally unreasonable, yet Gerry at T.I would easily beat that and you should deffo talk to him !

Have you any photos of the car ? If it was in good nick I'd buy it from you and take my chances !!

siralfalot

MercMad wrote:

Have you any photos of the car ? If it was in good nick I'd buy it from you and take my chances !!

as would I!

if the car got a roasting, but the owner kept a regular check on oil usage (something that should be done on all alfas) then the bottom end "should" be ok, any alfa's I've seen with big end failure have usually had a neglected life

redman

See the good commentary in motoring section of the Indo today for specific review of the Spider '96 onwards. Suggest €4-5k for 96 model.

Redman