NCT - Can they do this?

edengarden

Ok I'm sooooo mad.

My car failed the NCT at the start of the month because of 2 headlights and my window washer had no water in it ... fair enough.

I rang to book my re-test yesterday and was told "tomorrow at 12.30" I went in today and was told that in fact it wasn't today it's tomorrow at 12.20 and the guy then looked out at the carpark and said well I will have to fail you anyway because your number plate is too small.

It wasn't even mentioned on the list I was given. When i mentioned this fact I was basically told tough and that it would be failed.

So not only did they give me the wrong info re my appointment, I'm also going to be failed on something that's not on my original failure list

So annoyed.

I have cancelled my re-test tomorrow cause just couldn't face that guy.

He gave me a leaflet about the size of licence plates and the plate is the right size, I looked up further the act re licence plates and fair enough the numbering is 1cm too small but still! Can they fail me on something new in my re-test?

C_Breeze

Well if its too small its too small, I know its frustrating that esentially you would have gotten away with it but if its not the right one then a fail sholdnt bother you. (the fact that they look at the letters on a reg plate to determine the roadworthiness of your car in the firsrt place is another story :rolleyes: )

DublinDilbert

C_Breeze wrote:

Well if its too small its too small, I know its frustrating that esentially you would have gotten away with it but if its not the right one then a fail sholdnt bother you. (the fact that they look at the letters on a reg plate to determine the roadworthiness of your car in the firsrt place is another story :rolleyes: )

On a re-test they only check the things on the list, once the re-test happens within 30 days of the original test.

I've never heard them failing a car for something that's not on the failure list... sounds like your man was just being a complete arse....

On a side note, is your front plate legal?

edengarden

Ok I really don't want to get into the ins and outs if my number plate is too small or not because its not and it wasn't failed on because of it!

I spotted this on the web http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=3910&lang=ENG&loc=1085and I rang the NCT call centre to find out what the story is. Apparently my booking tomorrow has not been cancelled so I'll print it out and go in.

But if anyone knows for definite where I stand please reply

Lord Nikon

they can only test you for things that's on the fail list. It is there fault for missing the number plate size, even if it's the right size.

edengarden

I bought the car second hand and the plate is a plastic plate - the numbers look like an Arial Bold font (such a bad description) but is very visable and not one of them crappy fancy looking ones and like I said the actual numbers are 5.5cm insted of the regulated 7cm

Darragh29

NCTS can only test/inspect failure items on a retest, provided that the retest is conducted within 30 days of the original test. You're best bet is to go for the retest and if you fail for anything that is not on the original fail/refusal list, use their appeals procedure. Your man sounds like a wan*er on a power trip.

edengarden

Yeah I will do that! He really was a nasty piece of work and the test centre was Mullingar for anyone's information!

Darragh29

edengarden wrote:

Yeah I will do that! He really was a nasty piece of work and the test centre was Mullingar for anyone's information!

Tell him he isn't allowed fail you on something that isn't listed as a fail-refusal on the original test result sheet. If he continues ****eing on about it, tell him to go get his manager and get his manager to tell him how to do his job. Then when you get your way, make a formal complaint about him and his attitude/ineptitude, to the NCTS.

ninty9er

Darragh29 wrote:

Tell him he isn't allowed fail you on something that isn't listed as a fail-refusal on the original test result sheet. If he continues ****eing on about it, tell him to go get his manager and get his manager to tell him how to do his job. Then when you get your way, make a formal complaint about him and his attitude/ineptitude, to the NCTS.

^^^
Ditto

cornbb

They can only retest something thats on the fail list. But if they spot something else, without explicitly retesting it, they can fail you for that. Its a bit pedantic and wankerish alright but your man was within his rights to indicate that your plates were against the rules alright. Note that I haven't found this written down anywhere, but I have heard it from an NCTS staff member who failed me for something like this a couple of years back.

Darragh29

cornbb wrote:

They can only retest something thats on the fail list. But if they spot something else, without explicitly retesting it, they can fail you for that. Its a bit pedantic and wankerish alright but your man was within his rights to indicate that your plates were against the rules alright. Note that I haven't found this written down anywhere, but I have heard it from an NCTS staff member who failed me for something like this a couple of years back.

More urban myths...

S.I. No. 405/2003 — Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 2003:

Section 10/3:

(3) Subject to paragraph (4), in carrying out a re-test on a vehicle only those reasons in respect of items which gave rise to the refusal of the test certificate shall be tested.

(4) Where in the course of a test or a re-test, the issuing authority forms the opinion that a defect, notwithstanding that it is not specified as a reason for refusal mentioned in Schedule 3 or, in the case of a re-test was not specified in the test report, is such that the use of the vehicle in question would be a danger to the public, that defect shall be a reason for the refusal of a test certificate.

I don't think a number plate being the wrong size or shape could be considered to be a danger to the public, so section (4) above could not possibly be cited by the NCTS as a basis for a fail-refusal in this case.

If your being told anything different by someone in the NCTS, your talking to an idiot.

Del2005

Darragh29 wrote:

(4) Where in the course of a test or a re-test, the issuing authority forms the opinion that a defect, notwithstanding that it is not specified as a reason for refusal mentioned in Schedule 3 or, in the case of a re-test was not specified in the test report, is such that the use of the vehicle in question would be a danger to the public, that defect shall be a reason for the refusal of a test certificate.

Sorry for being an @rsehole here. But if the number plate isn't correct then the car technically isn't road legal and could therefore become a "danger" to the public. I know it's nit picking but they could use that argument against it.

Why not just buy a correct number plate, save a lot of hassle and possibly an extra E50 for a new test?

edengarden

Guys thanks for all the replies, I've printed out that section and I'll bring it with me.

No I'm not going to get a new number plate it's completely ridiculously.

Will let ye know how I get on!

Darragh29

edengarden wrote:

Guys thanks for all the replies, I've printed out that section and I'll bring it with me.

No I'm not going to get a new number plate it's completely ridiculously.

Will let ye know how I get on!

Let us know how you get on!

Darragh29

Del2005 wrote:

Sorry for being an @rsehole here. But if the number plate isn't correct then the car technically isn't road legal and could therefore become a "danger" to the public. I know it's nit picking but they could use that argument against it.

Why not just buy a correct number plate, save a lot of hassle and possibly an extra E50 for a new test?

I'd read what it says on the tin if I were you. Section 4 doesn't say that a car can be failed on a new item if there was a defect found on the vehicle that meant that the vehicle was not "legally" on the road. What it says is that a vehicle cannot be failed for a new defect found during a re-test, save in circumstances where that defect would cause the vehicle would be a danger to the public, for example if the engine that was cutting out, or if the vehicle had a flat tyre, or if the engine was leaking engine oil. A number plate that is the wrong size is not a danger to the public. It might not be legal, but the legislation specifically provides for a refusal on a new item only where there is a danger to the public and on no other grounds.

Don't forget that this started when the OP ran into an utter muppet in the NCT centre in Mullingar. I'd have no problem with the NCTS failing a car for this on the first occasion but this didn't happen here.

The only time I've heard this section 4 clause being used by the NCTS was if you were failed on one bad tyre for thread depth or a bulge on a tyre wall. What they used to do was just check the one tyre that they failed you on. Then the realised that on most occasions, this bad tyre had been swopped with another good tyre on the vehicle so the problem had just been migrated to another wheel for the re-test. They had a meeting about this and now if you fail for a tyre and have to come back for a re-test, all your tyres are checked again, not just the "one" that failed the first time.

Bazzy

he will be failed on the reg plate.

the plate is a danger to the public if op knocks someone down and drives off and cctv cant pick up the reg.. thats a danger to the public.

You've admitted the reg writing is too small pay €12 get a new one problem over.

You are now going back to the test centre with a cancelled appointment and a defective reg plate and i have no doubt you will be back on here tomorrow giving out when you fail.

did anyone here that gave out about ncts go to the public feedback meeting that was held a while back?

I agree that some of the things are a joke and its a money making scam but there's no point going back knowing ur going to fail.

The reg being wrong size is only a visual and they wont charge u for a re test of it. So safe urself a trip back and bite the bullet and splash out on the €12 for reg plates

MarkR

Get new plates, 12 quid saves you a 1265 fine for each illegal plate. As stated before if they come across something in a retest of course they'll fail you. However they'll only actually test what's failed.

pa daly

On a side note, who told you the fine for having a non standard plate was that much, have you got a link?

I've never heard of it anyway, now I know if a guard wants to be a p*ick abouty it, he can issue a summons. But the fine is more like 60 euro.

Darragh29

Bazzy wrote:

the plate is a danger to the public if op knocks someone down and drives off and cctv cant pick up the reg.. thats a danger to the public.

If the number plates were such a health hazard then this should have been captured when the car was tested on the first occasion. I can't see how a CCTV camera could not read the OP's number plate, given that the OP has said that his/her number plate is marginally smaller than what it should be and even in the extremely unlikely event that it couldn't, it still would not be a public health hazard. If someone knocks someone down and drives off, then it's the person who is driving who is the problem, not the number plate or the size of the number plate. This is nonsense. I agree that the OP should have failed the test on the first occasion for this, but that didn't happen and the rules couldn't be more clear as to what happens when the car is presented for a re-test. There is no point in dreaming up a vague set of circumstances under which a number plate which is slightly smaller than it should be can now be taken to be a public health hazard.

BeardyGit

So, you're going to be in Mullingar NCTS tomorrow afternoon at 12:20 for the retest? Driving a car with illegal plates? But you don't care that they fail to comply with the law I guess? Well, luckily for you, I'm not bothered enough to set you up for a little chat with a local enforcer....

But if anyone's interested, the Mullingar Garda stations number is in the phone book. Or here, make it easier for you....

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statlinks/long_wmeath.html

I'd pop into the local motor factors tomorrow morning if I were you kiddo - There's a lot of people here who are sticklers for the law....Just like a load of Gardaí in places like Mullingar too. Ask them nicely in the motor factors and they might give you something for that chip on your shoulder too.... :rolleyes:

Darragh29

Gil_Dub wrote:

So, you're going to be in Mullingar NCTS tomorrow afternoon at 12:20 for the retest? Driving a car with illegal plates? But you don't care that they fail to comply with the law I guess? Well, luckily for you, I'm not bothered enough to set you up for a little chat with a local enforcer....

But if anyone's interested, the Mullingar Garda stations number is in the phone book. Or here, make it easier for you....

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statlinks/long_wmeath.html

I'd pop into the local motor factors tomorrow morning if I were you kiddo - There's a lot of people here who are sticklers for the law....Just like a load of Gardaí in places like Mullingar too. Ask them nicely in the motor factors and they might give you something for that chip on your shoulder too.... :rolleyes:

I think you're way off topic there, the OP didn't come here to ask for comments on his or her compliance with the Road Traffic Act. I'd like to think I live in a country where compliance with any statutory body is based on presecribed legislation and can't just be made up on the spot by some official at a whim, as is the case here. The law is there for a reason. If the Gardai want to pull the OP for non compliance with the law in relation to his/her number plates, more power to them, however this post isn't about complying with the Road Traffic Act, it's about the rules regarding an NCT re-test.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Gil_Dub wrote:

So, you're going to be in Mullingar NCTS tomorrow afternoon at 12:20 for the retest? Driving a car with illegal plates? But you don't care that they fail to comply with the law I guess? Well, luckily for you, I'm not bothered enough to set you up for a little chat with a local enforcer....

But if anyone's interested, the Mullingar Garda stations number is in the phone book. Or here, make it easier for you....

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/statlinks/long_wmeath.html

I'd pop into the local motor factors tomorrow morning if I were you kiddo - There's a lot of people here who are sticklers for the law....Just like a load of Gardaí in places like Mullingar too. Ask them nicely in the motor factors and they might give you something for that chip on your shoulder too.... :rolleyes:

Hahaha..


edit: objectionable language removed - anymore and you can take a break!

BeardyGit

Darragh29 wrote:

I think you're way off topic there, the OP didn't come here to ask for comments on his or her compliance with the Road Traffic Act. I'd like to think I live in a country where compliance with any statutory body is based on presecribed legislation and can't just be made up on the spot by some official at a whim, as is the case here. The law is there for a reason. If the Gardai want to pull the OP for non compliance with the law in relation to his/her number plates, more power to them, however this post isn't about complying with the Road Traffic Act, it's about the rules regarding an NCT re-test.

Darragh, I'm not at all off topic. The OP knows the number plates don't comply with the legal requirement - He's acknowledged that way before I even looked at this thread. He then goes on to state:

" No I'm not going to get a new number plate it's completely ridiculously."

So, you'll surely agree he made it part of this discussion himself.

Now while I don't agree with the *reported* attitude of the NCTS staffer, the fact remains that the OP is breaking the law, and is doing so knowingly. And while it would be easier to get on side with the OP by agreeing that the NCTS staffer was a tool, it would only serve to detract from the OP's 'pick and choose' approach to the legality of his vehicles presence on our roads.

The OP's car failed the test, partly because BOTH headlights were out of spec....Why? Both out of focus/alignment? Both running modified non-approved type units? Both running 100W bulbs? I know, I'm speculating, but why should I take the OP at face value here? His attitude suggests he thinks he's at liberty to decide what laws/regulations apply to him and which ones don't, and that's not on.

Really, why should any of us give him the benefit of the doubt here? The guy brought his car to a test centre in Westmeath, two days ago now, with an empty washer bottle and two dodgy headlights. Now I don't know about the rest of you, but when I drive my car in the kind of crappy weather we've had lately, I make sure the washer bottles at least got a bit in it and that my headlights are good to go - Because I'll more than likely need both. And more likely I'll need it when driving out of Dublin because of the type of traffic I'll get stuck behind etc.

A guy who can't be arsed making sure he can protect his field of vision when driving is someone I want to have failed for anything they can get him on. A guy who doesn't know or chooses to ignore the fact his headlights are out of spec is someone I want to see failed. A guy who thinks that just because he got away with something once means he shouldn't be done for it on a technicality is a guy I want to see failed.

A €20 quid pair of plates is all it would take for the OP to comply with the law, as obliged.... But he chooses to whinge about it here and chance his arm in the morning. :rolleyes:

Enough excuses. We're all road users, and we all make mistakes. The vast majority of us I'm sure will hold up our hands and say fair enough, I cocked up there. But those who don't or won't are the people each and every one of us should focus our attentions on.... No more excuses.

Esel

Since when is the whole country covered by CCTV? Sure, CCTV might be able to record the plate, but could an average person do so? As the car left the scene of an accident? Not the OP's car obviously.

AFAIK, the only exception to the plate/character size rule is when the car can't physically be fitted with a normal-sized plate - e.g. Japanese import rear plates. Then, the measurements can be proportionately reduced.

drdre

My nct is on friday.Hope i pass it

Gregor Samsa

Gil_Dub wrote:

But if anyone's interested, the Mullingar Garda stations number is in the phone book.

What ever about the legalities of the plate, or the statutory regulations covering the NCT, but do you really think that if you, or anyone else, phones the Guards in Mullingar and says "I'd like to report a crime. There's going to be a car arriving at the NCT centre sometime today with number plates that have lettering that are 1.5 cm too small." that they're going to set up some kind of roadblock to catch the culprit?

Please... :rolleyes:

jjbrien

If you tjim yopur going to be failed because of the number plates then before you go today go up to westmeath motors on the Dublin road and get a new plate done they charge about €6 and it takes less than 10 mins. I got mine done there in a couple of months ago becasue the gut in the nct center said that my back platr was too faded.

daedalus2097

Darragh29 wrote:

If your being told anything different by someone in the NCTS, your talking to an idiot.

Happens quite a lot when you're talking to NCTS staff unfortunately I've heard of a couple of cases of things like this, but send it in anyway, chances are yer man won't be doing the retest and the tech you get to come out to the car park to check it will just look at your failure report and check that item...

I know it's a pain, but worst case scenario it's a free retest if you have to go back with a new number plate.

baddabing

As usual topics go soooo of course....

Isn't it a case that you bring a car in to NCT, it fails on 3 counts, listed on your report.

You go away and fix those faults (not the simple fix that only require a visual check).

If the car is retested fully then it can fail again on the full range of checks! And so it goes around and around.

As for the number plates, if the guy looked out of the window and said 'Oh I will have to fail you on your number plates, that is not valid, the car wasn't checked properly and if it was only going back for a visual check, if it wasn't on the lsit before then it would not be an issue now.

BTW, the NCT is run by cowboys, and is a scam to the highest level.

I recently nearly bought a used car that was checked on Cartell with the mechanic check and he said that there is no way that the car should have passed the NCT and gave me a list of 5 issues. I rang the NCT to check the disk and it indeed did pass......I'd say the only thing that passed was a greasy palm with some paper in it....

BeardyGit

phutyle wrote:

What ever about the legalities of the plate, or the statutory regulations covering the NCT, but do you really think that if you, or anyone else, phones the Guards in Mullingar and says "I'd like to report a crime. There's going to be a car arriving at the NCT centre sometime today with number plates that have lettering that are 1.5 cm too small." that they're going to set up some kind of roadblock to catch the culprit?

Please... :rolleyes:

Yeah. I really believe it. I'm thinking Mad Max style interceptors and a helicopter overhead.... Swat teams and a retired FBI negotiator etc.

What do you think :rolleyes: If you take it one word at a time and re-read my post, nice and slow now, you'll see that I couldn't be bothered wasting my time calling them either.

The point isn't so much to suggest that the Gardaí could be arsed about it, it's to point out to the OP that there are a lot of pedantic heads about like myself. All it'll take is some mean little SoB to report him to a recently graduated thunderpants down in the chip shop and he could be diddled. Man, if I was a Garda down in Mullingar, I'd be waiting for him to roll in for the 12:20 test.....

There's a simple way to deal with this of course. Points on the license. That'll take care of it.... It's only a matter of time, and I can't wait.