Suggestion: limiting Feedback responses

SoBe

could a ban appeals forum not be set up for appeals that dont really fall into feed back or help desk and just give access to mods/admins? and just let the original poster post in it along with them?

Sully

I dont see the problem with setting that policy suggested (Mods only reply if the topic is of concern to you) but sometimes topics like "How do I get unbanned? X banned me from forum Y..." - a mod should be permitted, even if its not really related to him, to respond with an answer. Its complaint topics that should have such a policy implemented.

Honestly tho, I think that all complaints topics about mods should be via PM to admin. Ban complaints, probably best in Help Desk. General feedback, in the Feedback forum. Policy needs implementing "If your reply is not on topic, ie cat pictures or general abuse, dont post at all" - I think its frustrating to see the amount of off topic ****e that goes on in these threads, excluding the cat pics.

nesf

SoBe wrote:

could a ban appeals forum not be set up for appeals that dont really fall into feed back or help desk and just give access to mods/admins? and just let the original poster post in it along with them?

There already is a way to appeal but not enough people use it. Most of the time simply PMing the moderator who banned you will solve the issue (either you'll find out exactly why you were banned if you were confused, the moderator reconsiders the ban after chatting to you or you abuse the mod or whatever).

In the rare (and it is rare) instance where a moderator was taking the piss and shouldn't have banned you and won't reconsider the ban after you chatting to them reasonably about it, it should be taken to the helpdesk and the admins will deal with it.


The biggest problem with this forum is that it's used by people to complain about being banned when really there's nothing to complain about. The ridicule/abuse they get might put off people who actually have a genuine complaint.

SoBe

nesf wrote:

There already is a way to appeal but not enough people use it. Most of the time simply PMing the moderator who banned you will solve the issue (either you'll find out exactly why you were banned if you were confused, the moderator reconsiders the ban after chatting to you or you abuse the mod or whatever).

In the rare (and it is rare) instance where a moderator was taking the piss and shouldn't have banned you and won't reconsider the ban after you chatting to them reasonably about it, it should be taken to the helpdesk and the admins will deal with it.


The biggest problem with this forum is that it's used by people to complain about being banned when really there's nothing to complain about. The ridicule/abuse they get might put off people who actually have a genuine complaint.

i understand the ban process and how it should be delt with,i was just suggesting that having a seperate forum would take a lot of the "ive been banned/fight the power" threads away from feedback,and free it up for its proper purpose.

was just a suggestion anyways

aidan_walsh

InFront wrote:

What about banning moderators from feedback?

What about "all mods are regular users outside their own boards"?

InFront wrote:

Why not make feedback a sounding board for newer users?

Which isn't the same thing as non-mods.

crash_000 wrote:

If the sMods would be willing to be more proactive on moving threads to helpdesk it may work out better.

Or if they were allowed to be more proactive on moderating Feedback. I understand why the admins want it the way it is, but I don't think its working. The forum, IMO, is clearly under moderated. This is even represented in the number of reported posts that appear from the Feedback forum on a daily basis - nearly none, in spite of a clear and regularly stated problem on the board. There is no self policing, because there is no visible policing, unlike many of the other forums. It has become accepted that no matter what you post, there is little or no consequence.

Quite a bit of this thread seems to suggest that only mods are to blame for the current state of Feedback. This is quite clearly not so, there are also a number of non-mods whose only contributions to threads consist of a series of cat pics.

All that said, crash does probably have the best suggestion so far.

Crash

aidan_walsh wrote:

All that said, crash does probably have the best suggestion so far.

...Can I get that printed up poster size and framed?

I really do think its the most achievable way of dealing with it, and the fairest to users and mods.

Any mod that replies to a thread they shouldnt, post should be deleted.
If they continue it, then you gotta call into question a number of things.

Sleepy

WhiteWashMan wrote:

again, i ask, why do you feel the need to limit who should have a say or not?
does everyone not have the right to give their opinion?

TBH, I don't, I just think there's a limit to what people should be allowed to say here: i.e. it should be on-topic and non-abusive.

perhaps we should just remove the image tags if cat pictures offend
people so much?

Given that screenshots are pretty helpful in giving feedback, I feel that would be the wrong tack. Simply put, banning people for off-topic crap like would be done on most other forums on this site is the way to go.

Owen

amp wrote:

Meanwhile here in currently hip land - a user fighting da powa! zzzzzzzzzzzzz

God no. Just fighting laziness. There's a diff

The Sweeper

You think that cat picture was lazy?

I'll have you know that's Whitewashman's cat. You have no idea the work that goes into that cat. The feeding. The litter tray cleaning. The construction of cat toys. The picking up of pieces of shredded tissue because the cat toys weren't interesting enough. The cat hair. Let alone installing a wood fired stove so he could stick his head through the stairwell bars and get mesmerised by the warm updraft and fall asleep so the picture could be taken.

Lazy?

Sheesh, I ask ya.

amp

InFront wrote:

What about banning moderators from feedback? I agree with smashey, some new people get a very hard time for posting threads on here. While their issues are often not spectacularly merited, they're rarely worth the abuse they get. Why not make feedback a sounding board for newer users?

I like the way you seem to think that all such "abuse" comes solely from moderators. Why don't newer users post to the newbie board, or if they don't want responses from mods and other users to the helpdesk board? I'll tell you why, because this forum is popular. Why is it popular? Because people enjoy reading it.

Obviously boards isn't strictly there for profit, and the admins probably don't lose any sleep over attracting new users, but pissing off new people to an unnecessary extent is never going to be a progressive step.

I disagree. I think more steps should be taken to prevent stupid people from visiting this site.

I used to think there was a hidden/ subtle joke to the cat/ owl pictures, but I've yet to come across one. I don't think it's true, but to a new person, I imagine this site does seem a bit cliquey, largely because of how feedback threads go.

You call it cliquey, I call it community. Normally the cats and owls arrive when the threads point is finished. If a thread starts off retarded then they arrive quicker. And they are funny.

seamus

InFront wrote:

What about banning moderators from feedback? I agree with smashey, some new people get a very hard time for posting threads on here. While their issues are often not spectacularly merited, they're rarely worth the abuse they get. Why not make feedback a sounding board for newer users?

By the same token, why not make it old-timers only? They're less likely to receive abuse, and are more likely to offer good feedback because they've been around this block a few times.

As amp says, the newbies have a forum - the Newbies forum. You won't receive any abuse for sounding your opinion or questions there. Feedback is for feedback on the site. Although it receives a lot of them, feedback is not for, "Why was I banned?", or "Why can't I...." type threads.

People post them on feedback because they think they're likely to get heard. Think of it as a stupidity filter. People who post these stupid threads on feedback instead of the helpdesk get abused. I'll agree that the level is often unwarranted, but as one of the admins said, "Feedback has always been a bit of a zoo", and I don't think they want to change that.

Mr Magnolia

amp wrote:

Why don't newer users post to the newbie board, or if they don't want responses from mods and other users to the helpdesk board?

Maybe a PM should point Newbies to the 'Newbies & FAQ' board upon registration (maybe it already does?). Also, should newbies be restricted to posting in 'Newbies & FAQ' for maybe 3 days or a week when they register. The may spend some time there and learn how the place works.

Normally the cats and owls arrive when the threads point is finished. If a thread starts off retarded then they arrive quicker. And they are funny.

I think they're an integral part of Feedback. I also think that feedback works fairly well as it is, it's never going to be perfect. Needless abuse = Ban.

nesf

Mr Magnolia wrote:

Also, should newbies be restricted to posting in 'Newbies & FAQ' for maybe 3 days or a week when they register. The may spend some time there and learn how the place works.

No, I imagine most people joined because they wanted to post in a specific thread or forum. Making them wait 3 days or a week in Newbies & FAQ is just going to frustrate people.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

InFront

I like the way you seem to think that all such "abuse" comes solely from moderators.

You'll notice I didn't actually say that. It's just one possible step towards making feedback appear less cliquey.

amp wrote:

I like the way you seem to think that all such "abuse" comes solely from moderators. Why don't newer users post to the newbie board.

That's not what that forum is for, it's for asking questions, not providing feedback.

or if they don't want responses from mods and other users to the helpdesk board?

The same goes for helpdesk. Also, they're generally told to "take it to feedback".

And they [cats and owls] are funny

Simple, pushy humour - like someone putting on a false nose and speaking in a Borat voice. I think it's fair to say a lot of people don't find those cats very funny, not that it's particularly relevant either way.

InFront

seamus wrote:

By the same token, why not make it old-timers only? They're less likely to receive abuse, and are more likely to offer good feedback because they've been around this block a few times.

I'm not really talking about the site getting good feedback, but riding the backs of newer users in feedback just for laughs. I don't see how anyone can deny that feedback does get very cliquey. Internet snobbery is ridiculous, what's the point?

humbert

I'd agree with amp insofar as what one person calls cliquey another calls community.

What is significant is whether it's welcoming or not and if one were to judge boards by an experience on feed back the prevailing conclusion would, I think, be very unfriendly.

It's the more established users that feel most comfortable deriding "n00bs" and sometimes it really isn't deserved.


Oh and cat pictures were(before I think it was boston's thread) appearing at the first opportunity instead of when there was nothing left to be said on the thread, I don't think that should be condoned, but that's just my two cents.

amp

InFront wrote:

You'll notice I didn't actually say that. It's just one possible step towards making feedback appear less cliquey.

You don't say it but it's inferred by your suggestion that moderators be banned from responding here. Why single out moderators?

That's not what that forum is for, it's for asking questions, not providing feedback.

Well we could rename it New User Feedback and combine both what you want with the original function of the forum. Wow, look at that, I made a helpful suggestion. I guess I better hand in my mod badge.

The same goes for helpdesk. Also, they're generally told to "take it to feedback".

And why would that be? Follow it through InFront.

Simple, pushy humour - like someone putting on a false nose and speaking in a Borat voice. I think it's fair to say a lot of people don't find those cats very funny, not that it's particularly relevant either way.

I think it's also fair to say that a lot of people read Feedback solely for the funniness of the threads, and even the drama created by controversial threads. Maybe people would be far more interested in politics if Bertie Ahern occasionally held up a picture of a cat with the caption I'm in your government makin de laws! I know I'd watch it.

DonkeyStyle \o/

amp wrote:

I think it's also fair to say that a lot of people read Feedback solely for the funniness of the threads, and even the drama created by controversial threads.

Yep, I tune in every week to see how the oul power-fighting is going.
I was actually going to start a new thread complaining about the lack of drama around here lately.

amp wrote:

Maybe people would be far more interested in politics if Bertie Ahern occasionally held up a picture of a cat with the caption I'm in your government makin de laws! I know I'd watch it.

Yeah totally... I'd have voted for him if he'd included ceiling cat in his election poster - "Ceiling cat is watching you walk down the road"... brilliant.

Jesus Wept

amp wrote:

Maybe people would be far more interested in politics if Bertie Ahern occasionally held up a picture of a cat with the caption I'm in your government makin de laws! I know I'd watch it.

:D:D
anyone have photoshop?



I could possibly find an interest in politics if this happened.

It would beat seeing him doing constant photo opportunities with Westlife.

henbane

amp wrote:

I guess I better hand in my mod badge.

We don' need no stinkin' badg-ches!

Faith

Nobody is above ridicule in Feedback. If an SMod or Admin started a completely stupid thread, they too would find themselves subjected to the same ridicule. If a thread is well thought out, or a complaint valid, the OP shouldn't have any problem.

That being said, there are a handful of people who seem to make it their goal to ridicule and pick on people on Feedback for no discernible reason. I feel they should be dealt with.

muffler

Faith wrote:

That being said, there are a handful of people who seem to make it their goal to ridicule and pick on people on Feedback for no discernible reason. I feel they should be dealt with.

Agreed.

And it doesnt matter how genuine the thread is there is still the usual band of mickey takers here which is unhelpful to say the least. Just about every other thread here at the moment is degenerated into a cat pic competition. I never had a problem with the pics some time ago as they would be thrown into the mix when the thread had wained but now it appears to be open season.

projectmayhem

amp wrote:

YWow, look at that, I made a helpful suggestion. I guess I better hand in my mod badge.

you got a badge?!

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah, you have to mod something better that DIT or Transformers to get it though, you know, something for adults.
<_<
>_>
That'll teach you to havew more bebo viewings than me.

InFront

amp wrote:

they're generally told to "take it to feedback".

And why would that be? Follow it through InFront.

There's probably a few answers. Traditionally this is where the majority of complaints about bannings and behaviour that is unfair, or perceived to be unfair go, despite what the charter says.
And sometimes it does work pretty well and the issue is resolved, and moderators advise going to feedback with good intentions.

On the other hands, I think sometimes a moderator can be well aware of the response a poster (who he thinks is talking rubbish) will get on account of being a new user regardless of the merit of his point.
But these are new users we're talking about, and if a moderator knows what the forum is intended for, knows that however deserved the user's point is he will get (albeit internet) abuse, it hardly says much for the moderator in question, does it?

amp

InFront wrote:

There's probably a few answers. Traditionally this is where the majority of complaints about bannings and behaviour that is unfair, or perceived to be unfair go, despite what the charter says.
And sometimes it does work pretty well and the issue is resolved, and moderators advise going to feedback with good intentions.

Well at least you've stopped generalizing moderator behaviour. Or have you?

On the other hands, I think sometimes a moderator can be well aware of the response a poster (who he thinks is talking rubbish) will get on account of being a new user regardless of the merit of his point.
But these are new users we're talking about, and if a moderator knows what the forum is intended for, knows that however deserved the user's point is he will get (albeit internet) abuse, it hardly says much for the moderator in question, does it?

..I guess not. Ah well. I guess all irish people are alcoholics, and all americans are fat and I'd better not talk to you anymore in case you decide to blow me up. Oh yeah, I went there. But I guess that's just built into being a moderator. I automatically must abuse you because you're new to this site.

InFront

What generalisation? Can you read?

sometimes it does work pretty well and the issue is resolved, and moderators advise going to feedback with good intentions.

sometimes a moderator can be well aware of the response a poster (who he thinks is talking rubbish) will get on account of being a new user regardless of the merit of his point.

amp

InFront wrote:

What generalisation?

Not once have you accused anybody but moderators of abusing newbies. And I for one am sick of people like you coming into this forum and accusing all moderators of doing that.

There are many regular users who are not mods that "abuse" people here. And if you're really upset about the "tyranny", then really, and in all honesty go find some other website to preach your sanctimonious crap.

****ing newb :mad:

Can you read?

OMG! You're accusing me of being illiterate which is basically the same as calling me stupid. My internet rights are being abused and therefore I AM BEING ABUSED!!! KAL TEH POLIC!

WhiteWashMan

InFront wrote:

That's not what that forum is for, it's for asking questions, not providing feedback. .

but hwat if someone answers?

isnt that essentially providing feedback?

InFront wrote:

On the other hands, I think sometimes a moderator can be well aware of the response a poster (who he thinks is talking rubbish) will get on account of being a new user regardless of the merit of his point..

in that case, i think those mods should sign themselves up to the paranormal forum as psychics. although, tbh, they would be the first people to post on the forum who actually know the future...

InFront wrote:

I'm not really talking about the site getting good feedback, but riding the backs of newer users in feedback just for laughs. I don't see how anyone can deny that feedback does get very cliquey. Internet snobbery is ridiculous, what's the point?

just for laughs?

now, that is a new one. maybe its true, i dont know.

what i will say is that once i have had my say, and i like to think that i make an effort at first to explain the situation, explain why something is, but i find that if something something isnt resolved, then people start getting shirty.
at that point, i have a terrible tendency to just say, 'fine, i told you what the story is, youre not happy, you wont offered a solution, **** off so'

if many people feel like this and give their opinion, then what you will get is what you call cliquey responses.
i dont post that much on feedback anymore. but its amazing that the same debate is happening here, that happens every other month, and has been happening for the last 9 years.
perhaps you should think why that is?

is it becuase we are one big clique? or is it just because there are a large number of people who feel similar throughout the histroy of this website?


do i think things can be hadled better? yes

do i think people are going to stop giving their opinion? no

do i think that some people should be excluded from this forum? no

are we going to have this conversation again next month? yes


im still waiting to see any decent suggestions from any of the people who continually complain though.
all it seems to be is the rehashing of some sort of 'clique' argument.