Is there much nepotism in Ireland?

curiousgeorge19

Had an interesting chat with a friend of mine the other day about connections and this country, and how people do well in jobs and the like.
I am obviously a bit naïve but I thought we weren’t that much of a society in which people are restricted by their background, ie rich or poor etc.
His opinion was the complete opposite that when it comes to careers and people getting on doors just open because of connections, family name, who your married to etc.
Is he right? Or is that the Ireland of old, or rural Ireland only?
I thought we are closer to the American model more than anything else in terms of if you work hard your bound to get on, is this reality?, or are the connections thing more important than we imagine?
Curious to get peoples opinions on this..

Duggy747

It's almost half-half. In order to get into a job a lot of times it's down to the people you know rather than what you can do. I know loads of people who have been turned down for jobs only to watch the employer's neighbour or a friend of a friend's son / daughter gets the job. (Cash & Carry-type jobs so I don't think qualifications are a big thing here)

Pighead

Definitely not.

Pigheads the bastard child of DeVore and theres not even a smidgeon of a chance of me ever getting a job as Mod on boards.

Jimoslimos

Well, we're still voting corrupt muppets into government because of their family name, if thats any indication........

thebman

Its everywhere in this country

Tar.Aldarion

A lot of people get jobs because of who they know/are related to etc, doubt that will change.

johnplayerblue

Nepotism? In Ireland? are you ****en jokeing me or what. Its what the country was built on. The civil servants and the Gaa have the whole basterd thing well boxed off, and there just for starters.

Nepotism in Ireland is like corruption in all governments, they go hand in hand.
Thats why theres sooo many retarts working for us, its like some kind of inbreeding thing at this stage...

thefinalstage

Its definitely true! I mean managers barely look at cv's because they always have someone who needs the job and just advertise to make the higher ups happy.

Anti

ITs not what you know, its who you know !

red_ice

i know alot of poeple in the IT industry who are very high up who really shouldnt be there, and its down to family/friends.

My old boss for example was the cousin of the owner. We would be working away, then he would come over, stir sh1t, start an arguement, then give out to us for what ever reason he could. Then go back to his desk and play solitare and talk on the phone (openly at that) to his mates for the day. The chap was a complete gimp, and he took the utter piss out of his cousins loyalty.

JohnK

Anti wrote:

ITs not what you know, its who you know !

QFT!

Fratton Fred

Anti wrote:

ITs not what you know, its who you know !

or what you know about who

What did the Dalkey Boy say on his first day at work

What shall I do today Daddy

Archeron

Wow. I'm surprised at the answers in this thread. From my own personal experience, I've never seen it. For me and friends of mine, they got the job (at the start of their careers) out of a good interview/luck, and then progressed through the ranks in their chosen field for being good at what they do. Then as life moved on, their experience in their previous jobs opened doors to more senior roles in other companies. Nothing at all to do with who they or I know.
Of course, I know it happens, but I've never personally experienced it.

L31mr0d

definitely. The job i'm in atm, i'm in because I knew someone here. Everyone in my job either is family of someone else, family of the boss or a close friend of the boss.

Does nepotism exist in Ireland, yes. Am I glad, yes, because all the text and qualifications in the world on your CV can't replace someone being able to vouch for your character. You have to interact with people in any job, and the one thing an interview won't tell you is what they are like socially. So having someone who can vouch for how easy you are to work with and how hard you work is a good thing imo. But then I would say that, its how I got my job

Ishmael

I seen it and been a part of it in a few low level jobs and i think its a good thing for this as it makes it quite a bit easier for people to get a good start on their careers. I had 2 jobs where i got the job without even having to do an interview just due to recommendations by others.

I haven't seen it as such in higher positions but i would assume that there is a bit of it present as i have worked for quite a few muppets.

Sleepy

Plenty of it. Just look at our legal profession, there's pretty much no point in doing a law degree unless you've connections who are prepared to give you an apprenticeship / act as your master for your devilling.

It's not across the board and in the right professions you can progress on merit alone but in an awful lot of industries who you know or who's ass you kiss are far more important in getting ahead.

kevmy

Ok so nepotism is undoubtedly out there . But the question has to be asked is is bad or good? And to what level does it interfere with 'normal' people getting jobs?

Personally I've come across few enough cases where total incapables have jobs due to nepotism. Now there might have been people equally as qualified going for a job but the brother/sister/cousin/mate got it. But if you know that person and trust them to do a good job, as opposed to taking a chance on a possible waster with the same qualifications, then IMO theres no harm in that.

Sleepy

There's no harm in it when both candidates are equally qualified but in instances like our legal institutions it contributes towards a two-tier society and is a massive barrier of entry which is probably preventing the best people from getting ahead in that profession and certainly preventing many suitable people from even pursuing a career in it.

Pigman II

I think nepotism will always get you in the door, but Irelands famed begrugery will make sure only the cute hoors rise up the ladder.

Pigman II

Pighead wrote:

Pigheads the bastard child of DeVore and theres not even a smidgeon of a chance of me ever getting a job as Mod on boards.

That's very sad to hear Have you offered to suck his willy?

GerryRyan

Cadetship Competition anyone? I've seen many people go for it over the years, some suitable, some definitely not. It's always the ones with the connections who got it. I have no reason to be biased here - I'm never going for it myself.

meglome

When I was starting out and jobs were harder to get it was much worse. Now it's not so bad and it's not always a bad thing either. Although I'm glad it's not as bad now because I really really prefer people to get things on merit. We got this one contract through nepotism but in reality we had to work harder and jump through more hoops than we would if it had been done differently.

flogen

I think most people with the right talents and abilities will get where they deserve to be in Ireland nowadays - before they'd have to leave the country. Things have changed enough in the last decade so that companies are always looking for fresh talent regardless of background and without that change in attitude our economy would still be in the dog-house.

That said there's still plenty of room for nepotism and I personally know a few examples of people getting jobs because of family rather than merit. It strikes me that, for the most part, this is how it works:

Guy A is intelligent, fights his way through the three levels of education and works his way to the top of a company. He eventually earns a job with a €100,000 salary and tonnes of responsibility.
Guy B is a layabout, had his degree bought for him and has done nothing with his life worth mentioning. Due to the status of his mother/father he quickly earns a job with a €100,000 salary and zero responsibility (in fact he's paid that salary on the condition that he doesn't do anything, just in case he makes a decision and fúcks everything up for everyone else).

seamus

It really varies.

I would say as a whole that knowing someone can get you a job. However even if you don't know someone, you're still well able to get said job.
I also find that knowing someone doesn't necessarily get you a promotion, unless the person doing the promoting is close family. Likewise, having no connections has no effect on your ability to get promoted.

shay_562

Is there nepotism? Definitely. Most of the cousins in my generation have worked for my uncle's company doing summer jobs, getting higher-up jobs (albeit with harder work involved) than most, because he wants to know that there's a group of people he trusts in there. My brother works at a firm run by my second cousin, which is how he got his foot in the door. I've seen people get jobs in my workplaces in the past based on someone already there recommending them. I handed in my notice at work today; tomorrow I'm going to be talking up a friend of mine to try and get them to hire him in my place. I'd have a problem with it in cases where someone completely incompetent gets away with murder because of connections, but from a manager's POV I can see why it makes sense to hire someone you know well enough to trust, or that has been personally recommended to you by someone you'd trust.

ejmaztec

Nepotism in Ireland? Does a bear s**t in the woods?

Zillah

Where I work almost everyone is related to someone, or long term friends with someone. The jobs are really sought after but its kind of ridiculous talking to people and you find out that this girl is the daughter of this woman and she's a neighbour of someone else and he's married to that woman etc. You could draw a line connecting almost everyone here.

My boss happens to be a neighbour and a family friend from before I was born. So yes, nepotism rocks.

luckat

Sure, people get jobs through relations (usually their first couple of jobs - the family will ask around "Who can give Willie a start?")

But the really good thing is if you have some loyal friends, and if you break up with your wife they'll have a whip-round to get you a few thousand because you don't have a bank account and have to keep your money in the office safe...

Kinetic^

ejmaztec wrote:

Nepotism in Ireland? Does a bear s**t in the woods?

Affirmative!!!!!!!

Reku

flogen wrote:

I think most people with the right talents and abilities will get where they deserve to be in Ireland nowadays - before they'd have to leave the country. Things have changed enough in the last decade so that companies are always looking for fresh talent regardless of background and without that change in attitude our economy would still be in the dog-house.

That said there's still plenty of room for nepotism and I personally know a few examples of people getting jobs because of family rather than merit. It strikes me that, for the most part, this is how it works:

Guy A is intelligent, fights his way through the three levels of education and works his way to the top of a company. He eventually earns a job with a €100,000 salary and tonnes of responsibility.
Guy B is a layabout, had his degree bought for him and has done nothing with his life worth mentioning. Due to the status of his mother/father he quickly earns a job with a €100,000 salary and zero responsibility (in fact he's paid that salary on the condition that he doesn't do anything, just in case he makes a decision and fúcks everything up for everyone else).

Sounds about right, can depend on the company though. I've only had one job so far where the boss hadn't hired relatives. In some cases the relatives were at least suited to the job, however in the majority of cases they were indeed just a waste of desk space and slowed things down more than helped due ot being promoted up solely on account of being blood relatives.

califano

rte are such a shower of inbred nepotists

RoisinDove

L31mr0d wrote: »

definitely. The job i'm in atm, i'm in because I knew someone here. Everyone in my job either is family of someone else, family of the boss or a close friend of the boss.

Does nepotism exist in Ireland, yes. Am I glad, yes, because all the text and qualifications in the world on your CV can't replace someone being able to vouch for your character. You have to interact with people in any job, and the one thing an interview won't tell you is what they are like socially. So having someone who can vouch for how easy you are to work with and how hard you work is a good thing imo. But then I would say that, its how I got my job

But it's really unfair to people who don't have connections to rich/powerful people. I mean, if you're from a tiny village somewhere and you move to Dublin to get a job in broadcasting, who's going to get the job? Culchie or Saoirse from Donnybrook whose dad knows someone in RTE? Assuming both are equally talented and capable, it's always going to be Saoirse isn't it? I'm sure we've all met people who are rubbish at their jobs and only got them because of connections. That's not right.

Big Nasty

Zombie much?

fred252

recently started working for a semi state (contracting). two fellows who i work with (permanent staff) openly told me over lunch that they got in there 'cause their old lad worked there. i was surprised with how normal they thought it was. it started me thinking how many people in here have family already in the door.

i think its scandalous. the hr dept here clearly have no scruples.

magma69

Yes, it exists in a hell of a lot of workplaces. I've never been in a job where there wasn't nepotism of one form or another.

COYW

Nepotism is rife in the country. I have witnessed cousins, brothers, sister, friends, friend of friends .... being hired in every job I have worked in.

I am actually right in the middle of some class A1 nepotism at the moment in my current job. We advertised an intern position before xmas and I was included as an interviewer as the employee will be working with me. The window for applications closed before xmas and I have interviewed some candidates, one of whom was an outstanding young lady from inner city Dublin. She was really enthusiastic about the job and I had little doubt that she would be a success and that I would work very well with her.

Last week, a lady in the office commented that her son would be interested, nothing more than interested, in the position. The young lady came in for her 2nd interview, blew the 2 managers away with her technical knowledge, not that they would be anywhere near her level anyway. I urged the head of the department to hire this girl but I was told that "She wouldnt fit in with the tone of the office". On Tuesday, the head of the department informed me that the son of my co-worker will be filling the position. He didnt even sit an interview. The amazing thing is that the co-worker and the head of the department are 2 active members of Labour who constantly mouth off about how FF cronyism ruined the country.

I feel desperately sorry for the young lady. I myself had a tough time starting off when I worked in a well known bank. At that time I was living in a council estate and regularly had comments relating to same passed at departmental outings. The fact that I was CoI was a major issue for another manager, for some reason. After I left the bank, I made a vow to myself to award roles based upon merit but I feel very bad after this latest incident. I am actively looking for a new job, as a result.

scientific1982

Yes, big time. We're one of the most corrupt countries in the EU.

Sanjuro

It's not nepotism, it's cronyism, and this country is rotten to the core with it.

ejmaztec

ejmaztec wrote: »

Nepotism in Ireland? Does a bear sh1t in the woods?

Same comment as June 2007.

Bill2673

Sanjuro wrote: »

It's not nepotism, it's cronyism, and this country is rotten to the core with it.

An important distinction.

In my experience (in the private sector), having connections can be useful. But for most serious jobs, say a management position in a large IT company, where skills and experienced.....its a bit far fetched to suggest people can bring their brother in to fill the role. I don;t think that happens much at all.

As for Nepotism......I believe it is rife in a certain body that is involved in managing aspects of healthcare in this country. I have a good friend who works there, and she says it wrecks her head completely. And that a big part of it relates to contracting, the this body decides it needs something done out of the blue and then hey presto a brother is called up to do the job.

And of course, politics. brian cowen. daddy was a td. brian lenihan. daddy was a td. (and brother is a td. and auntie is a td). barry andrews. chris andrews. simon coveney. etc etc. elections are a fairly transparent process though. I can't speak for party nomindations.

Bill2673

scientific1982 wrote: »

Yes, big time. We're one of the most corrupt countries in the EU.

I don't think this is true, there was an international study done a few months back, i think its done annually, and we are better than the average in the EU (is less corruption than average). Remember we are up against the likes of Italy, Portugal, Greece, countries with big black economies.

Seloth

Compared too other countrys its not bad so yeah half and half.

In politics in many places such as the UK or the US you need to know certain people or go to certain schools where here its much more open.

tonycascarino

Nepotism and Ireland go hand in hand. It is rife here.

scientific1982

Bill2673 wrote: »

I don't think this is true, there was an international study done a few months back, i think its done annually, and we are better than the average in the EU (is less corruption than average). Remember we are up against the likes of Italy, Portugal, Greece, countries with big black economies.

I remember a study a few years back and we were number 2 behind Italy. I know first hand just how corrupt this country is because I've benefited from it on a number of occasions.

Bill2673

Anyone watch that show about Brendan Bracken, @Churchills Irishman'. Was very interesting what he did....

He was basically from a pauper family, his mother sent him to a cousin in Australia when he was 15....he worked and saved up cash to come back to Britain, where he enrolled himself at a really posh gramar school for one term...and this is the key point, so that he would then be an 'old boy' and could wear the school tie. it was a nod to the cronyism in the UK at the time, and it worked.

biko

rounders123 wrote: »

rte are such a shower of inbred nepotists

Why did you bring a thread back from 2007 for this comment?
Don't answer that, zombie lock.