Dear Santa......

siralfalot

I have been a very good boy.........

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/209215/alfas_rs4_beater.html

Joeface

Dear Santa...

Please give me a time machine so I can go back and stop my dad from selling the Aston Martin he once owned , and put in storage for me ( He did this in the 60's) I only just found out he cried as I beat it out of him and then beat him for doing it

never had anything even close since

Owen

Oh dear. I'd loved to have been in the meeting where Alfa decided to green light this one. Who in their right mind is going to buy an Alfa, with their history of reliability and residual values that's supposed to be able to compete with the M3 and the RS4? Very few people, that's who. This is going to hurt the Alfa Romeo wallet, and hurt it plenty.

Yes they've sourced the engine from a decent manufacturer, but it's Alfa. They're going to screw something up. I'll bet my left nut on it.

Eoin

ned78 wrote:

Oh dear. I'd loved to have been in the meeting where Alfa decided to green light this one. Who in their right mind is going to buy an Alfa, with their history of reliability and residual values that's supposed to be able to compete with the M3 and the RS4? Very few people, that's who. This is going to hurt the Alfa Romeo wallet, and hurt it plenty.

Yes they've sourced the engine from a decent manufacturer, but it's Alfa. They're going to screw something up. I'll bet my left nut on it.

This is going to seem a very stupid question, but are the likes of the M3 / RS4 / Superdoopercharged whatever, really the bread winners for the car companies or are they more just a show piece to try and sell the more common variations of the car?

Who in their right mind is going to buy an Alfa, with their history of reliability and residual values that's supposed to be able to compete with the M3 and the RS4?

By that logic, very few people would buy a standard 159 over a 3 series or a4, and I wonder if that's the case.

RobAMerc

Believe me when I say I am not an Alfa basher - far from it I love them but I doubt they'll put the money and resources into this to really make a RS4 beater out of this. I dont doubt their capable though.

I hope I am wrong but having seen how underdeveloped some Alfas have made it to the market leaves me worried for this car.
Anyone drive the 156GTA ( M3 beater ) ?

R.O.R

eoin_s wrote:

By that logic, very few people would buy a standard 159 over a 3 series or a4, and I wonder if that's the case.

Based on my stats YTD.

1 Alfa 159 delivered
20 BMW 3 Series
17 Audi A4

Think that tells the story, Alfa is just too expensive to compete due to the resale values.

RobAMerc

ned78 wrote:

Oh dear. I'd loved to have been in the meeting where Alfa decided to green light this one. Who in their right mind is going to buy an Alfa, with their history of reliability and residual values that's supposed to be able to compete with the M3 and the RS4? Very few people, that's who. This is going to hurt the Alfa Romeo wallet, and hurt it plenty.

Yes they've sourced the engine from a decent manufacturer, but it's Alfa. They're going to screw something up. I'll bet my left nut on it.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

siralfalot

sooo... what? nobody should bother to develop a car that is an the same catagory as an M3 or RS4? because no mater who the manufacturer is they will obviously never better the germans?? please :rolleyes:

Eoin

R.O.R wrote:

Based on my stats YTD.

1 Alfa 159 delivered
20 BMW 3 Series
17 Audi A4

Think that tells the story, Alfa is just too expensive to compete due to the resale values.

Wow - some stats alright. Given that the 159 is only since last year, I presume that you haven't included any 3 series or A4s older than that? Would never have thought that there were 20 3-series out there for every Alfa 156/9!

prospect

Wow,

Ned78, i think you are still living in the past:

This is from a German TV show, i know its not definative, but it says alot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zON4bWsl2Ek

Also, residuals on the 159 and GT are much improved on older models. I am not sure about the Brera, but I can't imagine the new spider will suffer depreciation any worse than its competitors.

@Eoin_S, the figures could be right, i did hear before that the 3 series is one of the most common cars in europe.

peasant

ned78 wrote:

Yes they've sourced the engine from a decent manufacturer, but it's Alfa. They're going to screw something up. I'll bet my left nut on it.

What do you mean "sourced" the engine?

They didn't buy it in from somwhere else, if that's what you mean ...Maserati is owned by Fiat who also own Alfa

R.O.R

eoin_s wrote:

Wow - some stats alright. Given that the 159 is only since last year, I presume that you haven't included any 3 series or A4s older than that? Would never have thought that there were 20 3-series out there for every Alfa 156/9!

Figures are for Brand new 2007 registered vehicles delivered year to date. Might not acurately reflect the general market conditions, but gives a good idea - especially if you consider the number of Fiat/Alfa retailers compared to the number of Audi and BMW dealers.

Top 3 so far this year are:
VW
Ford
BMW

prospect

R.O.R wrote:

Top 3 so far this year are:
VW
Ford
BMW

So by your rationale, VW are better cars than BMW?

Eoin

prospect wrote:

So by your rationale, VW are better cars than BMW?

He never said that, he said that the residuals are poor. They may start improving, but that's pretty accurate at the moment.

prospect

eoin_s wrote:

He never said that, he said that the residuals are poor. They may start improving, but that's pretty accurate at the moment.

I'm confused, how does the number of units sold link with residuals?

Not being smart, genuine question.

roughan

My GF has an Alfa

if you press something..
something else falls off !!!!

Eoin

prospect wrote:

I'm confused, how does the number of units sold link with residuals?

Not being smart, genuine question.

I suppose that if residuals are seen as being very poor, it could affect sales?

Owen

prospect wrote:

Ned78, i think you are still living in the past:

Perhaps, but then why does every salesperson I know cringe when they see an Alfa rolling in the forecourt for appraisal?

prospect wrote:

Also, residuals on the 159 and GT are much improved on older models. I am not sure about the Brera, but I can't imagine the new spider will suffer depreciation any worse than its competitors.

Eh ...

bazz26

Haven't had an Alfa "good v evil" thread in ages.

I'm off to get some popcorn....

Owen

bazz26 wrote:

I'm off to get some popcorn....

Get some cheesy nachos too! This is shaping up to be fun, I'm going to bow out and spectate, I've said all I need to say

R.O.R

prospect wrote:

I'm confused, how does the number of units sold link with residuals?

Not being smart, genuine question.

I work in leasing so the figures are based on no. of cars delivered this year, nothing to do with who is better - just who is selling more via leasing.

As leasing is worked out as
Cost to buy minus what it will sell for at the end of contract, plus interest and servicing costs, Alfa's work out a lot more expensive than a similar priced BMW or Audi as (based on past performance) they will break down, fall apart and sell for peanuts. BMW's tend not to break down as much and sell well at the end. Audi's break down frequently but still sell well at the end.

Up front discount on the above marques is around the same so it's mainly resale values and servicing costs that are the big deciders.

Anan1

prospect wrote:

I'm confused, how does the number of units sold link with residuals?

Not being smart, genuine question.

I'm guessing ROR's figures are for leased, as opposed to sold, cars. Lower residuals = higher monthly lease rates.

RobAMerc

ned78 - I suspect the only reason you posted anything in this thread is because you know if you diss Alfa's you'll get some moron to agree with you, making you feel as though you have the slightest clue about cars.

Everyone else : Please dont let this thread be ruined too.

redman

A 159 GTA comes on the back of the popular, successful and reliable 147 GTA's and 156 GTA's .

Just wait till the 169 comes to be followed by the 169 GTA to trounce M5's

prospect

Thanks for the replies.

Funny, i bought my Alfa 14 months ago and sold it last week for €1,500 less than I paid. I must be the exception rather than the rule


I have no problem with Ned78's posts. It is obvious he is as passionate about BMW, which are fine cars, as I am about Italian cars. It is a pity that some peoples passion clouds their reasonable judgement at times.

Eoin

prospect wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

Funny, i bought my Alfa 14 months ago and sold it last week for €1,500 less than I paid. I must be the exception rather than the rule

You should know by now that every person here with something positive to say about them is the exception rather than the rule!

Owen

prospect wrote:

I have no problem with Ned78's posts. It is obvious he is as passionate about BMW, which are fine cars, as I am about Italian cars. It is a pity that some peoples passion clouds their reasonable judgement at times.

Oh Jesus H Christ. I've stated MANY times on this forum that I like a lot of cars. I love VW's, I like Audis, I like old Minis, I like Fords, etc,. what I don't like are people putting words into my mouth, or making assumptions about my loyalties and broadcasting them as fact.

For the record I'm passionate about Italian engineering too, I own a Ducati 916 with exceptionally low mileage, and long may it stay that way. I've owned a Moto Morrini, and I even spent 4 months driving an Alfa 156. I just wouldn't part with my own money for an Alfa. And I'm not the only negative-norman on here, lots of posters think the same.

Cyrus

i dunno i reckon it will be great, i may still buy a 156 gta and will def be looking at the 159 when it has depreciated a bit

RobAMerc

redman wrote:

A 159 GTA comes on the back of the popular, successful and reliable 147 GTA's and 156 GTA's .

I'm not sure the 159 or 147's were exactly considered to be great drives.

I drove a 159gta - and while it looked superb, sounded fab, and was unreal quick it damn near pulled me into the hedge with torque steer and loosened my fillings with the ride. ( I still would have bought it if I could have afforded it ).

But R32/Focus St or M3 beaters they were not.

Cyrus

personally i wouldnt take the 156 gta over an m3 but i would take it over a 330 (230 v 250bhp) or any similar saloon with similar power, for the engine note and beefy looks.

the 147 i would have over any hot hatch of its time, altho once the mk5 golf gti came along it was beaten and subsequently the focus st

the 3.2v6 is a reliable engine tho

prospect

ned78 wrote:

Oh Jesus H Christ.,..................., lots of posters think the same.

Alright, calm down.