Dear Santa......

Owen

prospect wrote:

Alright, calm down.

prospect

lol

MercMad

the 147 i would have over any hot hatch of its time, altho once the mk5 golf gti came along it was beaten and subsequently the focus st

..........I dont understand the fascination with the MkIV GTI. It looks just so bland and boring, and the standard wheels are hateful looking. Together with that silly red trimmed grille it just doesn't look right IMO !

Also I dont think the quality on the interior is anything to right home about. Its probably the first EVER Gold GTI that I would never consider buying !

Anyway unfortunatley for Alfa Romeo, it would take a lot more than a high quality, high performance car to temp buyers away from M3's and the like !

Cyrus

have you driven the mkv? one of the best fwd cars out there imo

whippet

MercMad wrote:

..........I dont understand the fascination with the MkIV GTI. It looks just so bland and boring, and the standard wheels are hateful looking. Together with that silly red trimmed grille it just doesn't look right IMO !

Also I dont think the quality on the interior is anything to right home about. Its probably the first EVER Gold GTI that I would never consider buying !

Anyway unfortunatley for Alfa Romeo, it would take a lot more than a high quality, high performance car to temp buyers away from M3's and the like !

the MK IV? I'am assuming you mean the MK V.

I actually quite like the little bit of red trim on the grille ... a harping back to the old MKI

The standard wheels again are a part of the car I hear most people actually love ... but as the Tayto ads says .. 'theres always one'

I would love that 159GTA but again .. I don't know if I would part with my own money to buy it !!

Owen

Cyrus wrote:

have you driven the mkv? one of the best fwd cars out there imo

I'll second that. A mate's sister has one, and I was very skeptical before driving it. This one had the DSG flappy paddle gearbox, and I was simply stunned. Power, quick crisp gear change, precision handling, and all from a FWD car. If I wasn't a MINI nut, it would be top of the shopping list.

Anan1

I love Alfas, but am distinctly unimpressed with the 159. It looks nowhere near as well as the 156, and it's not particularly good to drive (nowhere near the E90 3 series IMO) Build quality seems ok - better than VW but not as good as BMW.

OKenora

Another argument slating Alfas, driven along 70% by people who have never driven one and 25% by people who have never owned one but got a spin in their m8's...once....:)

The weakest point in an Alfa is usually the nut that connects the pedals to the steering wheel. If you get one of these that does not fail in it's operation then the Alfa is a great car to own and drive (though some models need carefully selected mods to get the best out of them)

Tell me all about the high servicing costs (£375 for the last 10k miles in my Alfa including a service and cambelt change ).
Tell me all about the unreliabilty, 0 breakdowns in the past 3 years in Alfas
Tell me all about the lower residuals, yes I know I bought cheap

All I'll say is BMW = bulletproof, until the turbo blows up at 65k and costs £1300 to replace :mad: and the servicing costs make my Alfa look like a bargain buy.

Maybe currently the BMW is the better car, but thats not usually what Alfas sell on anyway. Someone looking for an affordable car with a bit of design flair and individuality will no longer be tempted by a BMW or indeed a Merc as 3 series and C class are getting common as muck and have lost their premium status, but not their premium costs making them a less attractive option. The new Alfas enjoy a far better reliability rating and build quality than the old ones and this will over time filter through to the mass market.

10 years ago would you have bought a Skoda ? 20 years ago you had to give Fiats away before they rusted away. Seats were even worse 15 years ago being cheap Spanish knockoffs of old Fiat designs. Times, manafacturers and markets change. Judge on the model, not the pub chat. Even the latest Mondeo is being ranked alongside the 3 series now.

Owen

OKenora wrote:

Another argument slating Alfas, driven along 70% by people who have never driven one and 25% by people who have never owned one but got a spin in their m8's...once....:)

Actually, some of us have driven Alfas, and more than once.

OKenora wrote:

All I'll say is BMW = bulletproof, until the turbo blows up at 65k and costs £1300 to replace :mad: and the servicing costs make my Alfa look like a bargain buy.

What kind of 'fact' is that? The turbo affected a limited run of 320d's, and the odd 530d. It has nothing to do with the Petrol engines. And with the Service Inclusive Packages on BMWs, you can now buy 5 years of servicing up front for a hell of a lot less than it would cost to service your Alfa.

OKenora wrote:

10 years ago would you have bought a Skoda ? 20 years ago you had to give Fiats away before they rusted away.

You still have to give Fiats away, and Skodas still don't sell as well as they should. I had a guy trade a 07 Skoda Octavia Estate this week, and he lost 8k in the first year because I couldn't even find a Skoda garage who'd be willing to buy it back from me.

Anan1

OKenora wrote:

Maybe currently the BMW is the better car, but thats not usually what Alfas sell on anyway. Someone looking for an affordable car with a bit of design flair and individuality will no longer be tempted by a BMW or indeed a Merc as 3 series and C class are getting common as muck and have lost their premium status, but not their premium costs making them a less attractive option. The new Alfas enjoy a far better reliability rating and build quality than the old ones and this will over time filter through to the mass market.

I dunno. That was true 10 years ago, when the 156 compared very favourably against its German competitors. My mother bought one then, and enjoyed every one of the 120,000 miles she put on it. When the time came to change, we both drove the 159. With the equipment she wanted the 320d came out at around €63,000, some €10,000 more than the 159 2.4JTD. We were both disappointed to find that the BMW was worth the 20% premium. My feeling is that, relative to their competitors, Alfa Romeo are going backwards rather than forwards.

E92

Fiats used to be such a common car in this country. The Punto was the best selling car in its class about 9 years ago AFAIR. Fiat are the only ones with a 4 year warranty and the only ones which sell cars with the On the Road Price;the rest you have to add on at least €500 to the price as they are 'ex works'. Fiat have brought in 2 new cars in recent times to the Irish market which got a great reception in the Press, the Grande Punto and the Panda. Neither has been exactly what you might call a sales sucess.

I've no involvement in the motor trade, but I'd be lying if I didnt say that the decline in the number of Fiats on the road has surprised me, especially now that they make proper cars. And the fact that there are so many goodies being offered on a Fiat for free is indicitative of the fact that they are not the easiest car in the world to sell. Toyota have provided cars with SFA for as long as I can remember, if Toyota sold a covered in bicylcle as the replacement for any of their cars they would still fly out the door. IMO a Toyota will sell itself(because most Irish people dont care abpit cars and all they want is a car that will go from Ato B and never ever go wrong, which is what a Toyota will do). The right kind of BMW, Merc Audi(small engine, right colour, not an A8/7 series/S-class etc) etc will fly out the door too, but for a very different reason(an increasing number of people are becoming badge snobs, so they couldn't possibly be seen in anything less than a premium badged car)

And dont forget: FIAT is Fix It Again Tomorrow

Owen

E92 wrote:

And dont forget: FIAT is Fix It Again Tomorrow

And if that doesn't work, F*ck it all-together (Yes it's altogether, but it's poetic license).

E92

ned78 wrote:

And if that doesn't work, F*ck it all-together (Yes it's altogether, but it's poetic license).

lol thats hillarious never heard that one before

OKenora

Alfa Romeo are going backwards rather than forwards.

Based on the 159 with the current engines then possibly yes, at least it's definitely not a giant step, not even a small one really, forward....

BUT...

The 159 in current guise is a stopgap release and imo very little more than a facelifted and slightly re-vamped 156. I think that if the 156 had been facelifted again instead of a 159 release then it probably would be outselling the 159 to this day (despite it's "technical inferiority" and "dated" design).

Fact of the motor market is that Alfa will have to produce a total world beater to ever re-gain credibility. Most of the Joe Public car buying public still live in the world of the 70's and 80's where BMW and Merc were prestige cars, Skoda and Seat were cheap but total cr4p, Fiats rusted and Alfas looked great but couldn't run for more than a week without repairs. The world of motoring, and the cars, has changed but perceptions take a bit longer to catch up.

prospect

I think you are all missing one very improtant fact:

Ireland is a very small and rather unique market. You can not judge a car based soley on Irelands sales figures.

Go to Italy, there's thousands of old Fiats still running around fine, France has thousands of old Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens, etc. Are they different and more reliable cars in their home countries? Are their mechanics better?


* EDIT: An improtant fact is entirely different from an important one.

Owen

prospect wrote:

You can not judge a car based soley on Irelands sales figures.

You can however, judge a car by how well it lasts to the torment that is the Irish weather, and most importantly, the smooth, silky Irish roads.

prospect wrote:

Go to Italy, there's thousands of old Fiats still running around fine, France has thousands of old Renaults, Peugeots and Citroens, etc. Are they different and more reliable cars in their home countries? Are their mechanics better?

Eh, the weather has a lot to answer for there. The reason we don't have old Fiats/Pugs/Citroens here, is because they dissolve like Disprin in rain water.

eob

Just so you know, you're all being laughed at by people who actually know something about cars.

Cyrus

eh?

Anan1

ned78 wrote:

Eh, the weather has a lot to answer for there. The reason we don't have old Fiats/Pugs/Citroens here, is because they dissolve like Disprin in rain water.

Depends what you mean by old, ned. My mother bought a new FIAT Tipo TD in 1990, even after 160,000 miles the car didn't have any rust. Mercedes, on the other hand, rust from 1993 on.

Anan1

Cyrus wrote:

eh?

eob has posted 15 times in 4 years. If he does know anything about cars, he's keeping it very close to his chest.;)

siralfalot

eob wrote:

Just so you know, you're all being laughed at by people who actually know something about cars.

**gasp!!!** who would do such a thing!!! :rolleyes:

eob

Cyrus wrote:

eh?

http://www.octane.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=9766

Just to pop Neds 'I live in 1986' bubble, the only car to suffer from chronic rust in the last decade or so has been both Mazda Mx5's and Nissan Micras produced circa 1992-1995. It's been well documented.

I've personally seen a 1994 Nissan Micra brought back from the brink where the front cross member (Ned, that's a bit like a sweeping brush handle) had completely disolved, along with some of the rear suspension mounts.

Even the passenger side door had to be replaced.

Only other car I've personally had premature corrosion issues with was a 1995 Subaru Impreza Estate.

Fiats and, in particular, Peugeot's, seem to be astonishingly well rust protected. The Peugeot 205 suffered from this strange problem where the zinc coating (Ned, that's a bit like melted tin foil, they dip cars into this to prevent corrosion) seems to be missing from tiny 1c sized parts of the car at random, namely the inner wings.

They cured this issue with the subsequent release of the 106 and 306.

C_Breeze

without having raed anyother post . DAMN THAT CAR IS GORGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

..cant wait to see what the 159TI will look like

Anan1

eob wrote:

Just to pop Neds 'I live in 1986' bubble, the only car to suffer from chronic rust in the last decade or so has been both Mazda Mx5's and Nissan Micras produced circa 1992-1995. It's been well documented.

You've obviously never seen a Mercedes.

eob

Mercedes stopped making anything remotely interesting after the 190 Cosworth. Unless you like diesels or something abhorrant like that.

Cyrus

err dunno bout you but i would take any of the amg 63 variants of their cars.

i was in an ml63, what an absolute beast! cls55 also does it for me (now replaced by cls63??)

Anan1

eob wrote:

Mercedes stopped making anything remotely interesting after the 190 Cosworth. Unless you like diesels or something abhorrant like that.

I'm starting to wonder how much you really know about cars. Do a little homework on the W124 Mercedes 500E.

eob

Reading about Mercedes is normally reserved for bankers and the retired.

Cyrus makes a good point (though it disturbs me that a thread about a red blooded Alfa is being sullied by talk of Mercedes, who couldn't design their way out of an under 8's painting competition) about the latest AMG versions though. Stumbled across a parked CLS the other day and thought it was interesting, though in that sort of ball park you're rubbing shoulders with up-and-coming Porsche Panameras so..

Cyrus.. Curious about what you thought of the ML63?

Cyrus

well for one the looks are very aggressive, very squat and hunkered down for a jeep, seems to have darkened headlights etc and this one was black so looked very dark and moody,

the noise from the engine is unbelievable and i think it bent time when the owner put his boot down. only got a short spin and friend of mine from NI was getting married and his dad is loaded, this was his car.

doubt they sell too many, who would buy a 550 bhp petrol jeep! he is lucky to get 12mpg, costs over 100 sterling to fill her up!

siralfalot

Mercs?? meh, maby I'll buy one when I'm old and beige, until then its red blooded Italian motors for me!