Irelands first black mayor - Integration working?

Zombrex

Morlar wrote:

As to the comment about how some people can turn anything (even a mustard forum) into an immigration issue - the only reason this story even made the news is that it involves an asylum seeker who moved from nigeria to the republic of Ireland (according to the new mayor for reasons of persecution).

The reason it made it to the news is that it is the first time a black person had been elected to the position of mayor in Ireland. How he got here is rather immaterial

Morlar

Wicknight wrote:

The reason it made it to the news is that it is the first time a black person had been elected to the position of mayor in Ireland. How he got here is rather immaterial

I disagree on 2 points there - first off this guy being black is not 100% of the newsworthiness of the story.

The main selling point is that he was (or is) a nigerian asylum seeker.

Though I will agree that without the refugee/asylum seeker angle it would have made the news - just not to the same extent so I think overall your wrong on that point.

The 2nd point - 'how he got here is rather immaterial' that amounts to saying that a politician or a public representative's past record is irrelevant. Its not irrelevant for white irish born politicians /public reps so why should his track record and biographical history be off limits for public or media discussion ? The fact that he claimed asylum from nigeria is material and relevant - I dont know the basis for why it would be deemed 'immaterial' or irrelevant.

Andy-Pandy

Fair balls to him, seems like a compitant fella. Who cares how or what circumstances got him to Ireland. He passed the imigration process, went to collage and is proving himself to be an asset to Portloise. From what i saw on RTE the locals seemed to like him.

Zombrex

Morlar wrote:

I disagree on 2 points there - first off this guy being black is not 100% of the newsworthiness of the story.

The headlines suggest otherwise

Irish Independent
"History is made as town elects first black mayor."

Guardian
"Ireland's first black mayor"

CBS News
"Ireland Elects Its First Black Mayor"

The significance is that he is black, not that he is foreign. If it was that he was foreign the headlines would read "Ireland Elects Its First Non-National Mayor"

Morlar wrote:

The 2nd point - 'how he got here is rather immaterial' that amounts to saying that a politician or a public representative's past record is irrelevant.

Yes quite Morlar, this is my attempt to undermine democracy .. :rolleyes:

If you look at what I actually said ...

The reason it made it to the news is that it is the first time a black person had been elected to the position of mayor in Ireland. How he got here is rather immaterial

In common English the context of sentence generally follows on from the previous sentence, unless separated by a paragraph.

How he got here is immaterial to the interest given to his case in the news, what was material was the fact that he is black.

The "first black" anything makes news, around the world, be it the first Irish mayor, first black baseball player, first black man on the moon etc etc.

People like firsts

Morlar

Wicknight wrote:

People like firsts

As in first asylum seeker ? This story is not ONLY of media interest due to skin colour, thats just having a one dimensional, simplistic take on it.

Zombrex

Morlar wrote:

As in first asylum seeker ? This story is not ONLY of media interest due to skin colour, thats just having a one dimensional, simplistic take on it.

And people "only" cared that Jackie Robinson became the first black baseball player in the modern Major League in 1947 because of his skin colour.

Except of course his skin colour was actually very significant.

You seem determined to make this about the fact that he was an asylum seeker. Why?

CPT. SURF

The "first black" anything makes news, around the world, be it the first Irish mayor, first black baseball player, first black man on the moon etc etc.

People like firsts

Yeah this seems pretty obvious. Anyone trying to wedge asylum issues into this story has some sort of agenda I would imagine and has lost their objectivity.

Morlar

Wicknight wrote:

You seem determined to make this about the fact that he was an asylum seeker. Why?

Actually its more a case of you pretending it has no relevance to the story.

CPT. SURF

Well I was interested in the story because he is black. I believe this would be true for the average person

wow sierra

This would still be a big story simply because he is black even if he was born in Ireland. Black people have lived in the US for centuries and it was big news up to recently if they got a position of power in most cities. It is constantly being discussed in relation to the Presidential election over there and the chances of Obama. Firsts in positions of power for any minority is big news and has nothing to do with Asylum seekers. A big issue was also made of the first wheel chair using TD for example.

williambonney

Wicknight wrote:

He was, well at least his asylum application was rejected because there was insufficient evidence that he was personally being persecuted. What do you ya know, the system works!! This was the first country he landed in, as he came by the air as far as I know.

He was allowed stay here because his third child was born here while he was waiting for his application to be processed (this was 2000).

How could this be the first country he landed in? there are no direct links between here and Nigeria.

williambonney

28064212 wrote:

The second part of that statement does not directly imply the first. There are countries which do have direct links to Ireland which are neither Nigeria or in the EU

what on earth are you talking about? THERE ARE NO DIRECT AIR LINKS, BETWEEN THIS COUNTRY AND NIGERIA. People from Africa who want to come to Ireland have to go to some other EU country first. That country should not allow them to travel to Ireland, unless they are properly documented.

williambonney

robinph wrote:

Why is that then, got something against Nigeria have you?

Yes

rkeane

Yes Ireland wasn't the first place he landed in, he should have been kicked out years ago. I see that woman Rosanna Flynn is using this first to get a better deal for asylum seekers....crazy really. The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers (90% +) at the top of their agenda's....I certainly don't. I hope Brian Lenihan maintains the tough approach of Michael Mc Dowell.

heyjude

rkeane wrote:

I hope Brian Lenihan maintains the tough approach of Michael Mc Dowell.

McDowell's tough approach was all talk. Most asylum seekers are found to be economic migrants, yet only a very small proportion of these failed asylum seekers are deported.

clonycavanman

Election and afterparty attended by representatives from the Nigerian embassy!- a remarkably forgiving attitude by the possessor of the world's 10th largest oil reserves- considering the calumnies the Mayor has reiterated about his homeland for the last 7 years.

mike65

The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers

Shurley Shome Mishtake?

Mike.

28064212

williambonney wrote:

THERE ARE NO DIRECT AIR LINKS, BETWEEN THIS COUNTRY AND NIGERIA. People from Africa who want to come to Ireland have to go to some other EU country first

Again, the first part of this statement does not necessarily imply the second. You seem to imagine the world consists of Nigeria and the EU, and for it to be impossible to get to Ireland without going through the EU

williambonney wrote:

robinph wrote:

Why is that then, got something against Nigeria have you?

Yes

What is it?

rkeane wrote:

The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers (90% +) at the top of their agenda's

Had to laugh at that, our country has been led by the biggest chancer of them all for the past decade, there is nothing our country loves more than a chancer

is_that_so

clonycavanman wrote:

Election and afterparty attended by representatives from the Nigerian embassy!- a remarkably forgiving attitude by the possessor of the world's 10th largest oil reserves- considering the calumnies the Mayor has reiterated about his homeland for the last 7 years.

It's called protocol and he is a public dignitary.

billy the squid

As a rule I would be against the choice of mayor being left to councillors, and would prefer to see the people elect their mayor instead.

That being said, people of all races living here should be getting involved in local and national politics, as they have to live here too, they should be allowed to take part in how the country or local area is run.

K-9

Jackie Healy Rae's son was elected mayor of Kerry!

I can just imagine the uproar in America 120 years ago,

First Irish Catholic Mayor elected!

cmcweb

The over-analysis on this subject makes me laugh - as if it makes a difference his "origin" or "colour" - when we have such a mediocre government local and national...

DublinWriter

stipey wrote:

Didn't the key parties (FF, FG and Lab I think) on the councils broker a deal whereby they rotate the position between them. I presume its some kind of block voting arrangement. I'm almost certain this is the case in Dublin anyway.

Unlike the US, Mayoral offices in Ireland are basically a junket and divvied up between the parties at local council level. They are not democratically elected here and hold no real political power.

oscarBravo

modalcommand wrote:

That this man can go on the news and tell the country that he left Nigeria to escape religious persecution. Just stop lying to us. You came here for a better life.

This post has been brought to my attention. It's a basic principle on this forum that you don't accuse anyone of lying unless you can clearly demonstrate what they have said to be untrue, and that they knew it to be untrue at the time they said it.

If your next post on this thread doesn't consist of either compelling evidence of both of the above, or a retraction of the accusation of lying, I'll remove your access to the forum.

modalcommand

The man is a liar.

PS. Its good to see there are plenty others out there who aren't falling for this bull**** story. And if you try and ban me I will be taking legal action against boards for defamation.

oscarBravo

Banned, and expect a siteban also for the threat of legal action.

walrusgumble

modalcommand wrote:

Something with this just doesn't wash with me.

That this man can go on the news and tell the country that he left Nigeria to escape religious persecution. Just stop lying to us. You came here for a better life. Otherwise you would have just jumped borders in Africa somewhere. Full respect of getting into the council and doing something with your life but the fact of the matter is this man is somebody who abused are asylum system like many others.

Plust the amount of racist arselicking going on here just because its a black man .

do any of ye ACTUALLY know exactly how the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner and/or Refugee Appeals Tribunal come to the conclusion/decision that one is actually a refugee? (after giving serious conceration to the geneva convention of regugees and the united nations handbook on determining refugee status) if you did then one would NOT say someone lied or say someone is abusing the system.

this guy was granted refugee status on the basis of religious persecution. country of origin information on nigeria, would conclude Nigeria is a completely different place 7 years ago than it is now. seven years ago there was clear evidence of "human sarcifices and head hunting for religious cermonies. the conflict between muslims and christains was far worse then. Nigeria was in civil war not so long ago. 2001 ish was the countries first ever democratic (if you want to call it that) election. the police were completely corrupt. females were threatened with female gential mutilation. if they escaped, the husband and family were targeted.

one of the reasons why nigerians' particulaily, men, are not successful in their claims today, is because nigeria is conveived as been safer now. meaning for the size of the country, one could easily relocate to another nigerian state to escape problems. futher the police have improved and will continue to improve.

speaking from experience of what goes on in the RAT, on a regular basis, many tribunal members, such as former foreign minsiter, David Andrews, have a very good knowledge on a place such as Nigeria. it is nearly impossible for such a person to get status. far enough, many claims that i have seen are brutal and are in reality economic migrants or people who are fleeing to escape prosecution, for which the unhcr handbook on refugee does not constitute such status. why is it near impossible to get status?

1. any irregulairtes during questionare and interview stage shall be reduce credibilty and plausibility of the claim
2. they analyise how one got into ireland, many are smuggled and will be hard to show evidence of countries they passed before coming, unable to give a sufficent answer will dent ones case. having no passport wont help
3. country of origin is assessed to see if one has a genuine fear of persecution and plausibility that one actually sufffered on the basis of nationality, race, political opinion, religion...etc
4. many who claim eg on basis of political opinion, will need to prove that they were key members of the party and documents will be needed as prove,
5. they will be asked why they could not relocate to a different part of the country, as they are exepted to do. many dont attempt or sufficently attempt, so their case weakens
6. they will be expected to have reported to all police authorites, wait for them to investigate. of course when the persecution comes from such authorites they wwould not be expected to report. but in the case of nigerians many claims are based on persecution from tribes etc. many never report their troubles to police stating they are corrupt or they would have to bribe them to investigate. this execuse will not be accepted as country of origin will deny this. also unchr handbook expects them to report to some sort of authority be it the cops or peace keepers from the UN
7. they ask about their family and education background to see if there is a possibilty of them been actually economic migrants.

after all that the decision maker looks at
1.consistency with claim
2. possibility of further persecution if returned home
3. possibility that the claim actually falls within the narrowly defined scope of the refugee definiton.
4. strongly analise coi reports on the country in question.

there is a very wrong impression that refugee status is easy. the applciants are throughly assessed. the decision maker even tries to trip them up in trying to see if there case is consistent. they also assess the person and then see with the aid of the un handbook, if the case is credible and plausible

without actually knowing the facts of that mans case and the condition of nigeria 7 years ago, it would be very unfair to claim that he was lying or he abused the system.

you seem to forget, and mcdowell did too( in may when he went on a rant about sending them home) that under the international refugee convention and the refugee act 1996, as amended, ireland has to allow into their boarders a person who wishes to claim asylum. under these legislations and article 3 of echr and universial human right convnetion, and civil and political rights convention and others, a country can not repatriate a person to their home country unless there is a reasonable likeihood that that person would suffer persecution or serious harm if returned.

tbh

rkeane wrote:

Yes Ireland wasn't the first place he landed in, he should have been kicked out years ago. I see that woman Rosanna Flynn is using this first to get a better deal for asylum seekers....crazy really. The vast majority of Irish people don't place chancers (90% +) at the top of their agenda's....I certainly don't. I hope Brian Lenihan maintains the tough approach of Michael Mc Dowell.

You wouldn't happen to know a Rkeane16 by any chance? He got banned for spouting crap very similar to this. Which was a shame, because he posted rumour as fact, and what he said was DEFFO going to happen in the next couple of days nearly 18 months ago still hasn't happened.

lisnageragh

The main problem for me here is

We have a unelected Mayor by the people.
We have a failed asylum seeker who has become mayor.
We have a non national taking public office.
Too many cosy deals done by councils to select mayors.


I would much prefer to see a Black/white Irishman become Mayor voted in by the people of the local community.

The Corinthian

modalcommand wrote:

And if you try and ban me I will be taking legal action against boards for defamation.

LOL. You don't actually know what defamation is, do you? Defamation is when you accuse someone of something negative without any proof or fair comment and the only person who potentially did that here was you.

Which is a pity, because I would broadly agree with you. I have a good few friends who have represented asylum seekers over the years and the general consensus from those who deal with the issue is that nine out of ten times they are simply economic migrants who are (were, as the system has been very much tightened up) abusing the asylum system to that end.

Given this it's unfair to accuse this Adebari of this because he could well be that one out of ten who is genuine. The reality is that people, both pro and against his appointment / election (either may apply in council politics), have been falling over themselves to either damn or praise him on the basis of his immigrant status rather than the facts of his situation, which I notice no one has managed to proffer here to date.