you gotta love them Zionists

williambonney

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the Jews in Israel, (I don’t use the term isralei because not all inhabitants of Israel are Jews.) are engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. How do they get away with this? And forever non-complying with UN resolutions? Because the big kid on the block, (the USA) allows them to do as they please.

The Saint

williambonney wrote:

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the Jews in Israel, (I don’t use the term isralei because not all inhabitants of Israel are Jews.) are engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. How do they get away with this? And forever non-complying with UN resolutions? Because the big kid on the block, (the USA) allows them to do as they please.

There are plenty of Jews in Israel are that are against the occupation and the policies of the government. It is not accurate to paint all Isreali Jews with the same brush. There is probably more vocal opposition within Israel of the occupation than there is in many parts of the world, especially the US.

Akrasia

Sesshoumaru wrote:

Maybe because some people abandon logic and reason when discussing these countries? Why is Israel being held to higher standards than other countries? Why don't we have stories about China(a frequent human rights abuser) posted as often on boards.ie? Mick86 is right these Anti-Israeli rant fests are just getting boring at this stage.

You show me another country engaged in this kind of behaviour and I will be just as vehement in condemning their actions.

You have refused to engage in the issues, You don't even try to defend Israel's actions anymore, instead you resort to ad hominem attacks accusing people of racism and prejudice. You are the one who is boring and unproductive and totally predictable.

wes

The Saint wrote:

There are plenty of Jews in Israel are that are against the occupation and the policies of the government. It is not accurate to paint all Isreali Jews with the same brush. There is probably more vocal opposition within Israel of the occupation than there is in many parts of the world, especially the US.

This is very true, most Israeli's are actually far more reasonable than people who defend stuff like this are, It boggles the mind sometimes, that there is more debate about this stuff in Israel, than the US for instance. the Israeli's are for the most part good people (like pretty much any group), there Zionist governments, is where the problem lies and always has.

Akrasia

williambonney wrote:

The cold hard fact of the matter is that the Jews in Israel, (I don’t use the term isralei because not all inhabitants of Israel are Jews.) are engaged in genocide against the Palestinian people. How do they get away with this? And forever non-complying with UN resolutions? Because the big kid on the block, (the USA) allows them to do as they please.

That's a terrible thing to say. That is an example of an anti semitic attitude.
Not all Israelis are Jews, that part is true, but to suggest that all Jews are genocidal is a disgrace.

The reason I use the word Zionist instead of jewish is because it separates those who support the actions of the Israeli state, from the large number of jewish people who utterly condemn their violent nationalism

Dr_Teeth

Akrasia wrote:

The reason I use the word Zionist instead of jewish is because it separates those who support the actions of the Israeli state, from the large number of jewish people who utterly condemn their violent nationalism

I'd really like to see some of these people.. I don't remember seeing any protests from Israelis when they started bombing Lebanon last year. I didn't see any protests at all until the war started going badly, and then the argument wasn't about whether it was right or wrong, but how to do it better.

The Israeli polls at the start of that particular action were over 90% in favour, so where are these "large number of jewish people who utterly condemn their violent nationalism"?

Groups like this: http://www.seruv.org.il/english/default.asp that I support are a tiny minority.. almost no Israelis would refuse to serve in the occupied territories or in Lebanon if called up.

nacho libre

Mick86 wrote:

In fairness the Israelis did offer to rehouse these people. The new housing mightn't be in a desireable area but that's life. Also in fairness, if a group of travellers in Ireland just decided to build a shanty town any old place without planning permission the Irish authorities would do basically the same thing as the Israelis. Hopefully the Gardai would use a little less of the iron fist but the Israelis don't do diplomacy. On the plus side they didn't bulldoze the houses with the inhabitants inside.

ah that makes it allright then. We should be thankful they extended this courtesy to them.

nacho libre

jonny72 wrote:

Anti-Israeli, Anti-American.. wonder why those phrases were invented?

Its like someone discussing Zimbabwe and someone else retorts "these kind of anti-Zimbabwe discussions are boring".

Anytime there is legitimate criticism of Israeli human rights violations on this board there just isn't enough mudslinging by the apologists to deflect the criticism. yet on a recent post abour Darfur many people condemning what's going on there were rightly accused of being anti-arab/anti-semitic by others. Where is the consistency?

Sesshoumaru

Akrasia wrote:

You show me another country engaged in this kind of behaviour and I will be just as vehement in condemning their actions.

You have refused to engage in the issues, You don't even try to defend Israel's actions anymore, instead you resort to ad hominem attacks accusing people of racism and prejudice. You are the one who is boring and unproductive and totally predictable.

China in Tibet I suppose? How many Chinese have they shipped into that country since they conquered it? A couple of million at this stage. Seems to be plenty of genocide happening in Africa as well.

I just don't see any genocide happening in the West Bank or Gaza. I thought genocide meant wiping out an entire people? If that was Israel's aim they are going about it all wrong. When Hitler wanted to wipe out the Jews he created camps for it and shipped them in with trains. Far more efficient. I see a continual state of low level warfare being conducted. What do people expect? Israel is either facing Islamic terrorists like Hamas or corrupt terrorists like Fatah. There is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side that doesn't want to see every last Jew driven into the ocean.

Padraig Mor

Sesshoumaru wrote:

There is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side that doesn't want to see every last Jew driven into the ocean.

That myth (maybe I should call it libel?) has already been conclusively disproved in the 'Palestinian infighting' thread. Of course you and your "I love Israel" buddies took your ball and left that thread when your claims were rubbished with *facts*...

BTW the whole argument that Israel is held to higher standards than other countries is clearly disingenous given that it is clearly allowed to get away with actions that are condemned in other countries.

Sesshoumaru

Padraig Mor wrote:

That myth (maybe I should call it libel?) has already been conclusively disproved in the 'Palestinian infighting' thread. Of course you and your "I love Israel" buddies took your ball and left that thread when your claims were rubbished with *facts*...

BTW the whole argument that Israel is held to higher standards than other countries is clearly disingenous given that it is clearly allowed to get away with actions that are condemned in other countries.

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but".

hamas = terrorists
fatah = terrorists

I have yet to see any of these so called moderate palestinians.

williambonney

The Jewish state Israel, (and before anyone jumps down my throat,) it IS a Jewish state, are terrorists, murderers and torturers. They ignore UN resolutions, and invade and kill as they please. Lebanon, cluster bombs etc. Why do they do this? Because they can, the USA allows them to. Like all bullies, they will some day get their comeuppance

philologos

Sesshoumaru wrote:

There is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side that doesn't want to see every last Jew driven into the ocean.

That isn't true at all. Fatah are ready at any stage, and to be honest I think we'd all prefer a secular Palestine at this time. If only the Mossad hadn't set up Hamas now eh?

Akrasia

Sesshoumaru wrote:

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but".

And Ireland 'technically' wanted to drive the British out of Ireland (it was in our constitution until the good friday agreement)
Does that mean the British had nobody to negotiate with regarding 'the troubles'

Hamas were engaging politically, they were entering a new phase. They had announced a ceasefire and stopped all attacks. What does Israel do? completely cuts off all ties with the Palestinian Authority, increases the economic blockade and sets up a coup (recently completed) to foment a civil war, meanwhile they continue their land grab in Palestine

johnnyskeleton

Akrasia wrote:

It's a completely different situation. The Zionists who are moving into 'settlements' in Gaza are doing so for imperial reasons, specifically to force out the local population and take it for themselves.

They Shouldn't be there, their presence is Immoral. The Bedouins on the other hand had been forced to settle in the desert by the Israelis themselves who were perfectly prepared to abandon them there with no services for 50 years until they decided that they wanted that land for themselves, and now want to Force them to move to inner city Ghettos where services and social problems are just as bad if not worse than where they are now.

The zionist settlers in Gaza and the west bank are the oppressors, they can't claim to be oppressed when their plans to invade are temporarily thwarted.

Kinda like Dublin people buying up land in Wicklow, Kildare and Meath.

Akrasia

johnnyskeleton wrote:

Kinda like Dublin people buying up land in Wicklow, Kildare and Meath.

A bit like that, only the dublin people don't bring the army with them to set up blockades and checkpoints all around their gated settlements and make the lives of the local people a living hell

Padraig Mor

Sesshoumaru wrote:

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but"..

Well TBH I didn't see any serious arguments (your 'Jew conspiracy' fantasy didn't really count I'm afraid) put against my belief so we'll take it that it was accepted as fact by all will we? I can go on but Akrasia seems to have already pointed out the necessary. I also note that, in typical Israeli supporter fashion, you are misrepresenting the arguments of the 'other side' AGAIN.

Sesshoumaru wrote:

hamas = terrorists
fatah = terrorists

I have yet to see any of these so called moderate palestinians.

Well, perhaps you should look a bit further than an "All Palestinians/Arabs/etc. are terrorists" world outlook.

Sesshoumaru

Akrasia wrote:

And Ireland 'technically' wanted to drive the British out of Ireland (it was in our constitution until the good friday agreement)
Does that mean the British had nobody to negotiate with regarding 'the troubles'

Hamas were engaging politically, they were entering a new phase. They had announced a ceasefire and stopped all attacks. What does Israel do? completely cuts off all ties with the Palestinian Authority, increases the economic blockade and sets up a coup (recently completed) to foment a civil war, meanwhile they continue their land grab in Palestine

The Irish didn't have a holy book that said god made the British out of rats now did they? You can't compare the Irish to Hamas.

I love it when hamas announce a ceasefire. It is only ever technically a ceasefire. You will always find "other groups" launching rockets and attacks at Israel during these so called ceasefires.

wes

Sesshoumaru wrote:

The Irish didn't have a holy book that said god made the British out of rats now did they? You can't compare the Irish to Hamas.

Do you have a quote? I assume you talking about the Koran. Its first I heard about this. As far as Muslims creation myth goes, its the same as the Christians and Jews one, in that all Humans are descended from Adam and Eve.

Sesshoumaru

Padraig Mor wrote:

Well TBH I didn't see any serious arguments (your 'Jew conspiracy' fantasy didn't really count I'm afraid) put against my belief so we'll take it that it was accepted as fact by all will we? I can go on but Akrasia seems to have already pointed out the necessary. I also note that, in typical Israeli supporter fashion, you are misrepresenting the arguments of the 'other side' AGAIN.

Well, perhaps you should look a bit further than an "All Palestinians/Arabs/etc. are terrorists" world outlook.

No we won't accept it as fact. I'm telling you I don't accept it. There now, you can no longer say accepted as fact by all I think most people who stand up for Israel just ignored your post. Our positions are about a million miles apart Padraig Mor. I don't have time for lost causes and I'm sure others feel the same.

Akrasia

Sesshoumaru wrote:

The Irish didn't have a holy book that said god made the British out of rats now did they?

So all muslims are evil then.
Great.

You can't compare the Irish to Hamas.

Why not?

I love it when hamas announce a ceasefire. It is only ever technically a ceasefire. You will always find "other groups" launching rockets and attacks at Israel during these so called ceasefires.

So when 'the real IRA" set off a bomb in Omagh, the British would have been right and justified in blockading the republic and withdrawing from talks with Sinn Fein?
Do you realise that if that had happened, there wouldn't be peace in the North right now?

Claiming that your enemies are all evil and irrational and you can never ever negotiate with them is a recipe for unending war.

Sesshoumaru

Akrasia wrote:

So all muslims are evil then.
Great.

Why not?

So when 'the real IRA" set off a bomb in Omagh, the British would have been right and justified in blockading the republic and withdrawing from talks with Sinn Fein?
Do you realise that if that had happened, there wouldn't be peace in the North right now?

Claiming that your enemies are all evil and irrational and you can never ever negotiate with them is a recipe for unending war.

I never said all muslims were evil. But the Koran does refers to Jews and Christians as being apes, swine and rats. Just Google it. Don't be lazy

philologos

Sesshoumaru wrote:

The Irish didn't have a holy book that said god made the British out of rats now did they? Y

The Qu'ran doesn't say that. I'd question your knowledge of that particular holy book and I ask of you to quote some relevant verses if you have infact read from it. Jews and Christians are infact regarded as People of the Book.

wes

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I never said all muslims were evil. But the Koran does refers to Jews and Christians as being apes, swine and rats. Just Google it. Don't be lazy

No, show me the quote. To the best of my knowledge its bull****, so I am interested to see where you get your knowledge from.

Sesshoumaru

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22578

wes

Sesshoumaru wrote:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22578

An article by Robert Spenser :rolleyes: . Says it all right there.

Sesshoumaru

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22578

Sesshoumaru

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22578

TheBigLebowski

Seen it 1st time...

jonny72

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I never said all muslims were evil. But the Koran does refers to Jews and Christians as being apes, swine and rats. Just Google it. Don't be lazy

Hang on, I remember you saying somewhere that you hoped the US would nuke Iran. You did write that didn't you? if so that does tend make your argument on people's bias against Israel slightly hypocritical.