you gotta love them Zionists

The Saint

I don't see the point about arguing about religion when the issue is primarily political. It deflects the debate more than anything.

nacho libre

Sesshoumaru wrote:

It was only accepted as fact by those that already think Israel is the root of all evil in this world. Most of your arguments went along the lines of "while TECHNICALLY true that want to destroy Israel..... but but but".

hamas = terrorists
fatah = terrorists

I have yet to see any of these so called moderate palestinians.

http://www.ffipp.org/

Sesshoumaru

TheBigLebowski wrote:

Seen it 1st time...

Am I the only one that gets a lot of time outs connecting to boards.ie?

Sesshoumaru

jonny72 wrote:

Hang on, I remember you saying somewhere that you hoped the US would nuke Iran. You did write that didn't you? if so that does tend make your argument on people's bias against Israel slightly hypocritical.

That was a tongue in cheek comment. It was meant more to rile up the anti-israel crowd on boards.ie. No sane person wants an exchange of nuclear weapons. Even a small scale exchange would have global effects and we in Europe wouldn't be unaffected.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-12/rtsu-rnw120706.php
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg19426073.300-nuclear-winter-could-bring-years-of-failed-crops.html

Sesshoumaru

The Saint wrote:

I don't see the point about arguing about religion when the issue is primarily political. It deflects the debate more than anything.

Well most religions don't include guidelines on how to run societies. Islam is as much political as it is religious.

The Saint

Sesshoumaru wrote:

Well most religions don't include guidelines on how to run societies. Islam is as much political as it is religious.

That's like saying Israels policies in the occupied territories are based on religion too. While there might be an element of truth to it the actions are primarily political as is the solution. You could argue that the morals and norms in every society are based on the dominant religion within it. Resisting occupation isn't based on religion, it's political. It's a nationalist movement. While the justification given by some might be religious doesn't negate the ends they are trying to achieve.

I really don't see how this has anything to do with the topic though.

Padraig Mor

Sesshoumaru wrote:

No we won't accept it as fact. I'm telling you I don't accept it. ....I think most people who stand up for Israel just ignored your post. ...I don't have time for lost causes and I'm sure others feel the same.

So basically what you're saying is "I can't back up my claims with facts so I'll just keep saying that the other side is wrong and maybe they might believe me". Yep - you gotta love you Zionists alright! It's nearly time for a bit of 'anti-Semite' labelling at this stage I think?

This is getting seriously off topic BTW...

kraggy

I've a couple of questions as i'm extremely interested in the middle east but know very little about it if you you know what i mean?...

Anyway, first is:

If Hamas were in Government, and had a majority of seats according to the bit of google i checked out, why had they not control of Gaza until a couple of weeks ago?

Is it that they have militant control as opposed to political control? Is there a Palestinian police force in the Palestinian territories?

Also, I know that Hamas get support from Saudi Arabia and Iran to a lesser extent. But what's the link, support-wise, between them and say muslims in Iraq? Or Al Queda?

The gang that kidnapped A.Johnston are linked to Al Qaeda, but almost came to confrontation with Hamas. So, is it fair to say that Hamas and A.Queda are not quite friends?

Finally, if this is the case, and Hamas, who want rid of Israel and their own country, are not friends with A.Q., is it fair to say that A.Queda in fact don't give a sh1t about Palestine and just hate America for the sake of hatred?

Or am i way off?

thanks,

k.

lancemotown

Jesus the whole pro-Israeli argument is so ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel Palestinian violence is justified - in fact I'm a pacifist.

But the pro-Israeli arguments seem to me to usually rely on stupid sentiments such as 'all muslims hate jews', 'all muslims are terrorists', or just plain old 'everyone who doesn't support israel has a problem with jews'. **** that bull****. I have no problem with jews whatsoever - one of my best friends is Jewish and Israeli. And she ****ing hates this bull**** too. Why? Beause EVERYONE is lying and using stupid religious rhetoric to support their own agendas and draw lines amongst and between people.

Pro-Israelis seem bent on the idea that Muslims, Jews and Christians are not all fundamentally equals and brothers, but are rather diametrically opposed and must fight forever.

and please don't give me that **** about 'if israel put down its guns there would be no israel' because it's bollocks. the only answer is for everyone to put down their guns and israel, as the dominant power which happens to be boning everyone else and kicking them from their homes, has to take the first step.

lancemotown

Sesshoumaru wrote:

Well most religions don't include guidelines on how to run societies. Islam is as much political as it is religious.

Oh I didn't see this one. Excuse me mate, you are wrong. Whilst politicians use Islam for their own political agendas, the differences between the way they use it vary hugely. How about you look at the differences between, say Sayyid Qutb and Sheikh Rshid Al-Ghannushi (of the Tunisian pro-democratic moderate Al-Nadha movement).

Furthermore, there are a number of traditional islamic concepts such as ijma (consensus), majlis (legislature), intikabat (elections), bay'a (pledge of allegiance) amongst many others.

Also, is it not hypocritical to say something like 'Islam is as much political as religious' (which is an absoloutely ridiculous statement) and not level a similar argument at, say, Judaism? You know, what with it being the entire basis for the creation of a 'jewish' Israeli state and the arguments which support the measures it takes to 'protect' itself....