Carlos Tevez

yabadabado

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=474297&CPID=8&clid=21&lid=2&title=Tevez+'turns+down'+Inter&channel=football_home&

Being reported that he has turned down Inter because he wants to stay in the premiership and that they had a deadline.Wud say there a good chance he will stay at west ham one more season.do ppl think there any chance united or arsenal will bid for him and what would he cost 15m to 20m?

Mr Alan

reckon all the top 4 will go for him

KdjaCL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBH7gJtmPHw

seems he has made his choice :eek:


I hope West Ham keep him, always wanted to see Surbs with money and with West ham.

kdjac

Mr Alan

heard westham have offered him something like 115k a week to stay. they are worse than chelsea now

wat pro ev game is that?! the graphics are quality!

yabadabado

KdjaCL will tevez and terry dixon work well together upfront for Pats???

Pepe LeFrits

Come on Gilles, hack some shins in the board room...

KdjaCL

yabadabado wrote:

KdjaCL will tevez and terry dixon work well together upfront for Pats???

Nah too lightweight needs some power for EL type football, i would go with tevez and O neill


kdjac

gosplan

Tevez to le Arse!!!!!

I know he might be offered money at West Ham but essentially playing for Arsenal and in the champions league is very very different from playing for West Ham.

All the top four would go for him but in my opinion....

Utd can't afford him after their recent expenditure. Besides they needed to spend to replace the aging Giggs and Scholes. Job done! Tevez would be a 25 million luxury that they can't afford now.

Chelsea won't take him. F all Spanish speaking players there and not in keeping with their recent transfer policy.

Liverpool & Arsenal would both go for him and love him. I know Liverpool are spending big on Torres but if the money really is there I can't see Benitez not being tempted.

I dunno, as an Arsenal fan I'd say that I hope to god he's seen the difference between their style of play and Liverpool's(ooh controversial) and will pick Arsenal. Personally if they pony up the cash I can see him staying in London.

There isn't an Henry replacement available this year because Henry's pretty much irreplaceable. But, to be honest, Carlos Tevez is about as good as you can do right now and I'd love to see him join.

KdjaCL

Its fairly obvious Liverpool cant afford anyone so its either Arse or man utd or shockingly west ham.

Man U can afford him if they sell, Arse can afford him now, West ham can also afford him quite easily.

Would love to see him at any of the above 3 teams all 3 have proper football philopshys.


kdjac

V9

I hope he stays at West Ham, at least for this season. He found his form when West ham's back was against the wall last season, I'd like to see if he can carry that into the coming season.

Mr Alan

why do you think Liverpool cant afford him when no one knows how much money they have to spend???

plus with sales of Bellamy/Garcia on the cards and gonzo already gone . . . think its possible they could afford the move

KdjaCL

millersangel wrote:

why do you think Liverpool cant afford him when no one knows how much money they have to spend???

plus with sales of Bellamy/Garcia on the cards and gonzo already gone . . . think its possible they could afford the move

fact they have spent none and offering players to athletico for Torres speaks volumes for how much they have to spend.

preseason starts next week and they have noone new.

kdjac

Guy:Incognito

KdjaCL wrote:

fact they have spent none and offering players to athletico for Torres speaks volumes for how much they have to spend.

preseason starts next week and they have noone new.

kdjac

Lots of deals involve swaps. They are more often than not leverage rather than in place of money the club doesnt have. Real were hardly short the £1m or so that Nunez made up in the Owen deal now were they.

Mr Alan

bought Lucas,
reina-carra-gerrard-sissoko have all signed new deals,with no real talk of any of them leaving (except momo) super news.
surely offering players (which we don't know they've done) is just a way of keeping the fee down by getting rid of players rafa doesnt want.
does the window not officially start on the first of July?? or is that just in championship manager?!

would be nice to have made a couple of signings but, there is no hurry, long as rafa is happy, and he seems to be.

Not saying i think they'll get both of em, but the two would probably cost about 50 million, not beyond belief that it could be done at all imo.

If the torres deal doesnt go through, i think we'd definately be able to afford him and, dare i say, even be favourites to land his signature?!

ah well, we'll see in time

Mitch Connor

I can't see liverpool being in for him - wouldn't make sense, to me anyway.

They have Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano and Lucas to play CM, as well as Gerrard. Rumours are they are looking for a new winger too. So, IMO, it is either a 442 with Gerrard on the right, new winger on the left and 2 from 4 in CM. Then you play Torres (who i reckon they have now got) up front with either Crouch or Kuyt - Bellamy hasn't been sold yet either.

The other possibility is getting two wingers and playing Gerrard off the front man.

Either way, i don't see a starting place in the side for Tevez, without Kuyt or Crouch being sold. I can't see Rafa admiting failure on Kuyt, and Crouch is far to usefull to liverpool to sell.

As for United, not sure there is a starting spot for him there either, but it depends on the formation and utilisation of Scholes / Anderson / Hargreaves / Carrick. I don't think money would be an issue, but could be if MSI are looking for over £20million - I reckon Smith is going to be sold, Rossi may be moved on too (arse) and then there is speculation regarding Heinze and Richardson - i reckon selling those four would bring in between 15million and 20million, which could be used to fund the bid.

United need to sign a top striker imo, they may as well do it this summer (and spend nowt next summer). I don't think we can afford to go in to the season with Rooney being the only forward we can actually rely on.

ciaran76

I love the way players now say their heart is in the Premiership instead of a club now. :rolleyes:

Tusky

If Liverpool sold Cisse, Bellamy & Crouch they could afford him. Although Benetiz may have factored that money into the Torres deal.

Mitch Connor

Tusky wrote:

If Liverpool sold Cisse, Bellamy & Crouch they could afford him. Although Benetiz may have factored that money into the Torres deal.

do you reckon they'd sell crouch though? He was the top scorer last season wasn't he? His height also makes him a great option to have, as he is very hard to defend against. If i was Rafa, Crouch would be one of the players i would definately be keeping. I'm not fan of Crouch myself, but it obvious he brings a lot to the team for liverpool. I don't think Vorinin will bring as much.

Mr Alan

Think you're probably right, but we can all dream!

If we are to presume that Torres is coming, and Bellamy is going-surely they would sort something out that would involve Bellamy as part of a deal for Tevez?? Think Rafa would have no bother getting rid of Kuyt, if he wanteded to (different story altogether!). He has shown on numerous times how ruthless he is (waited over a year for Gonzo, very high hopes, and now he is gone, no second chance).

If Liverpool were to bring in two strikers either Crouch or Kuyt would have to go. Would much prefer Kuyt to leave (and i like him), Tevez is similar but with a better touch and more able to do something special.

That'd leave Torres-Tevez-Crouch-Voronin.

Way too good to be true

Tusky

Tauren wrote:

do you reckon they'd sell crouch though? He was the top scorer last season wasn't he? His height also makes him a great option to have, as he is very hard to defend against. If i was Rafa, Crouch would be one of the players i would definately be keeping. I'm not fan of Crouch myself, but it obvious he brings a lot to the team for liverpool. I don't think Vorinin will bring as much.

I like Crouch and dont want us to sell him but at the end of the day, which forward line is more promising.

Torres
Kuyt
Crouch
Veronin

or

Torres
Tevez
Kuyt
Veronin

Mitch Connor

Tusky wrote:

I like Crouch and dont want us to sell him but at the end of the day, which forward line is more promising.

Torres
Kuyt
Crouch
Veronin

or

Torres
Tevez
Kuyt
Veronin

one that doesn't include Kyut

Tusky

Tauren wrote:

one that doesn't include Kyut

I think he will come good. I just hope he plays further up the pitch this season. He started and ended the season well. He always worked hard but his finishing was ereadic and there was a large portion of the season when he didnt look at all dangerous.

Mr Alan

Telling ya, if we got rid of Kuyt and Bellamy and got Tevez and Torres. It'd be, hello number 19!

PHB

If Liverpool sold Cisse, Bellamy & Crouch they could afford him. Although Benetiz may have factored that money into the Torres deal.

If United sold Saha Smith and Rossi they could get him too, but how likely are either of these situations
I think Liverpool can spend at most, absolute most, 50 million net spend, which would be a huge huge huge transfer budget for the new owners to give. If that's the case, and 20 million at least going on Torres, it'd be weird for Rafa to spend the rest on Tevez, when the wings are still a priority. That said, he might wheel and deal, but personally, I think the net spend is gona be about 30 million at most.

I think if Fergie wants Tevez, he can get him, through reasonable selling of players. If he wanted Tevez, he could sell Smith for 6 million (Boro already bid that) Rossi for 6 million (Parma already bid that) Richardson for 4 (apparently what Sunderland bid) Pique/Brown for 7 million (depending on reports, and player, Barca/Zaragoza, and Newcastle/Spurs)
That's 23 million t here, and I'm sure they could find 7 million more if they wanted him.

I think if Fergie wants him, he'll get him, but I'm not sure if he wants him. Can't decide if I want him either. Anderson Rooney and Tevez all play similar roles in the team, although Tevez can play the out and out striker much more than the other two, and has done it in the past. That said, if I had a choice, for only next season, I think i'd prefer Anelka to Tevez, but in the long run, Tevez is going to be one of the best players in the world, and I think United should buy him if only to stop him going to Liverpool or Arsenal.

Mr Alan

The race to sign him will no doubt be the most interesting of this window.

Realistically think only Chelsea and Arsenal (perhaps) could afford to buy him outright now.

Liverpool and United would have to get rid of a few players to Fund the move (Cisse,Bellamy,Saha,Smith)

ErinGoBrath

millersangel wrote:

Realistically think only Chelsea and Arsenal (perhaps) could afford to buy him outright now.

Anyone know his price tag yet? 20m+?

Would love to see him at Arsenal. He'd get a bagful of goals with the service he'd get from the likes of Cesc, Diaby etc.

Fingers crossed Wenger gets the cheque book out!

marco_polo

PHB wrote:

If United sold Saha Smith and Rossi they could get him too, but how likely are either of these situations
I think Liverpool can spend at most, absolute most, 50 million net spend, which would be a huge huge huge transfer budget for the new owners to give. If that's the case, and 20 million at least going on Torres, it'd be weird for Rafa to spend the rest on Tevez, when the wings are still a priority. That said, he might wheel and deal, but personally, I think the net spend is gona be about 30 million at most.

I think if Fergie wants Tevez, he can get him, through reasonable selling of players. If he wanted Tevez, he could sell Smith for 6 million (Boro already bid that) Rossi for 6 million (Parma already bid that) Richardson for 4 (apparently what Sunderland bid) Pique/Brown for 7 million (depending on reports, and player, Barca/Zaragoza, and Newcastle/Spurs)
That's 23 million t here, and I'm sure they could find 7 million more if they wanted him.

I think if Fergie wants him, he'll get him, but I'm not sure if he wants him. Can't decide if I want him either. Anderson Rooney and Tevez all play similar roles in the team, although Tevez can play the out and out striker much more than the other two, and has done it in the past. That said, if I had a choice, for only next season, I think i'd prefer Anelka to Tevez, but in the long run, Tevez is going to be one of the best players in the world, and I think United should buy him if only to stop him going to Liverpool or Arsenal.

Spending 25-30M on a player to stop him going to another club is not an avenue a shrew manager like Fergie is going to go down. Hell even Jose cannot afford to do this any more. I am not convinced that Liverpool can afford him, certainly not with Torres too. Man U probably don't need him. Arsenal perhaps if they can off load Reyes for a good price to add to the money recieved for TH might be a possible destination, however Arsenal do not have a history of big money transfers.

I seems to me from the past few weeks that Liverpool have maybe £30m in the transfer kitty before selling any players. I would assume that the reason that they are trying so hard to negotiate a player plus cash deal for Torres is that Rafa wants to have some money (maybe 10 -15M )to spare for the purchase of a decent winger. Unfortunately I think any Tevez / Torres partnership is soley for FM 2007 I'm afraid

*Edit: Forgot Chelsea

Mr Alan

30 million is the fee supposedly

Doodee

Peanuts for Villa

yabadabado

dont think liverpool will go for him if they are getting torres keep whatever money left after torres to buy a good winger liverpool cud do wit a decent central defender to play along side carragher.tevez is a bit too similar to rooney for united i think but he wud be a great addition and they cud probably afford him by selling a few players.chelsea wont spend the cash this summer or so it looks.arsenal probably have the cash but its not wengers style to shell out that sort of cash.i think west ham cud be the big winners by getting him on loan 4 another year.maybe Kia Joorabchian will try and send him on loan to one of the big 4 for a seasongetting him playin in front of a bigger audience(ie champs league) to raise his price.

Mr Alan

and wats Danny Agger???

yabadabado

agger decent 3rd choice.if liverpool serious about winning epl they need another cb.

griffdaddy

yabadabado wrote:

agger decent 3rd choice.if liverpool serious about winning epl they need another cb.

Third choice? What're you talking about? he's a very good first choice.

~Rebel~

Speaking purely hypatheticaly, it would be great to be able to bring in Tevez. I would be willing to sacrifice Kuyt to bring him in. They're similer enough players, so its just like a trade up. Now, if that were to happen then we've got
In;
Torres (25mill) Tevez (30mill) Mancini or other winger (17mill ish) Yossi (3mill) Lucas (5mill) Voronin (Free) thats 80mill

Out;
Kuyt (12mill) Bellamy (8mill) Cisse (6 or 7 if Marseille take up their option) Garcia (4mill) Pongolle (2.5mill) Gonzalez(4 mill ish) thats 36.5 mill taking cisse at 6.

So thats a Net Spend of about 43.5mill give or take with the differences in actual sales values, not really unbelieveable!

I dont think it'll happen or anything, but looking at it this way its not insane. United already have a netspend of a similer level.


<Edit> Yabba, the defence is the only area we were on par with United and Chelsea. im quite happy with Agger and Carra as first choice. We have tonnes of highly rated younger CB's (18-20) only one of which we need to be decent enough this year to be a backup, as well as Arbeloa who can play all across the back 4 if needed, and it doesnt look like Hypia's going anywhere.

PHB

<Edit> Yabba, the defence is the only area we were on par with United and Chelsea. im quite happy with Agger and Carra as first choice. We have tonnes of highly rated younger CB's (18-20) only one of which we need to be decent enough this year to be a backup, as well as Arbeloa who can play all across the back 4 if needed, and it doesnt look like Hypia's going anywhere.

I don't think Agger is as good as any of Rio/Vidic/Carvalho/Terry, he looks like he is gona be, but to be honest, not only does he not compliment Carragher well, he's still learning his trade, and will cost Liverpool over the season.
I think if Liverpool really want to compete, they have to do so with an incredible, I mean incredible, defense, and I don't think they have it currently with Agger. That said, maybe Benetiz is targetting the league the following year, in which case playing Agger next season would make a lot of sense.

~Rebel~

PHB wrote:

I don't think Agger is as good as any of Rio/Vidic/Carvalho/Terry

Id definately agree with that, i just meant that goals conceded wise Chelsea, Liverpool and United were all much of a muchness, its the goals scored section that has Pool left behind in the dust. I think with Mascherano and Alonso limiting the amount of work for Agger and Carra to do, that theoretically if we got the attack sorted we could push for the league, not really win it yet, but at least just be there or there abouts, and then as you said, Agger should be developed enough for a real push the following year with a bit of tuning up to the team, whatever areas we find are lacking after the coming season.

And then to tie all that up to make it somewhat on topic, hopefully Tevez could be part of the solution for the "goals scored" column.

PHB

Yeh, fair enough, but when you look at defence and offence youi have to think in terms of balance. Barca's defenders last year looked ****e, but I'd say if you put Puyol in the Chelsea team, he'd be considered to be one of, if not the best in the world.
Liverpool are currently balanced very defensively, and the question is how well Agger and Carragher would do, with say just Mascherano in front of them, in a 4-4-2, or maybe just Alonso in front of them. Against the crapper teams that Liverpool should be outplaying, a midfield without Sissoko or Mascherano would be much better, and that's when they will really be tested, when the balance is shifted.

I think if Agger plays next season, it means Rafa is building towards really going for the league the following season, which to be honest, wouldn't surprise me at all.

Dont be at yourself

That's ridiculous. Agger isn't yet a top class centre-back, but he's far from a liability or weak link in the team. He's solid, improving all the time and has a good understanding with Carra. He's not going to cost us the league! Considering we've been linked with the likes of Gaby Milito for £10 million, I'd much rather we spent big on attacking players than bringing in an unproven continental defender for that kind of money.

Playing with two deep centre midfielders isn't the problem with our attack either. We create buckets of chances (more than any other team, I think?), we just can't put them away.

PHB

Agger isn't top class yet, and I can see him costing about 6 points next season, not through specific faults, but just in his general play. It'll be in games when Liverpool are winning 1-0, and the crap team grinds out a draw or something. It'd be the same problem United would have if they played Pique week in week out, he's good, possibly going to be great, but currently, his general play just won't be good enough. It might not be a mistake, but it might be him not defending as well as Carragher, which results in a goal or two.

Playing with two deep lying midfielders isn't a problem for cup matches, but it is for the league, when the other team is happy with a 0-0 draw. Furthermore, I really hate this whole myth that Liverpool create loads of chances but just don't put them away. The reason for this is because a crapload of half chances. They aren't good enough chances. There is no denying that by god some of the strikers miss osme ungodly chances, but it's also because the chances aren't good enough. It's easy to always blame the strikers, but if the ball is one inch to the left or right, it makes the strikers life so much easier.

griffdaddy

PHB wrote:

Agger isn't top class yet, and I can see him costing about 6 points next season,

That's very specific, haha, do you have premonitions of Agger missing tackles against different premiership teams or something?:p
I don't agree about the striker comment, for me a good striker is one who'll make the best of whatever pass he's given and create something from any ball that goes close to him, a Rooney or a Kaka or an Henry, all players who can pick up and do something out of nowhere. For me, Liverpool have just been missing the really really top level skill of a player like the above mentioned.

PHB

Liverpool are missing that magic from a front man, no doubt about it, but Rooney, Kaka or Henry score most of their goals from good passes to them, not from half chances.
Obviously a good striker is one who'll make the best of whatever pass he's given, that makes him the perfect player. However no player does that.

~Rebel~

our passing in the final third has been woeful for a while though, Kuyt is one of the only ones that can find a man nearly every time, a lot of the time the rest find the opposition or just pass back into the middle third again. This is why id welcome Benayoun and another top notch winger, im hoping this would solve that problem..The team really needs to work on passing and moving in tight situations as is the case against the weaker teams who just park the bus.

PHB

I think Benayoun would be like Park for United, very good winger to provide cover when needed, but very direct and can do a job, which is all you want.

Tevez isn't really what Liverpool are looking for, as he doesn't normally lead the line in a 4-5-1 formation, or 4-2-3-1, which Liverpool appear to be shaping up to.
Torres does that, although it's not his best style of player, he's pretty good at it.

yabadabado

when i said agger was decent 3rd choice i think some ppl thought i was knocking him i think he has great potential to go on and become 1 of the best around but i dont think he shud be 1st choice yet carragher and agger is a good partnership but if carragher was to get injured wud you really what agger to be your cb leader so i think a good seasoned cb is a must along wit a good winger aswel and the pool mite push for the pl.does anyone else think the pool wil play 4-5-1 next season wit gerrard playin behind torres and alonso & masherano/sissoko in cm. o well back to topic TEVEZ TO UNITED

zing

yabadabado wrote:

does anyone else think the pool wil play 4-5-1 next season wit gerrard playin behind torres and alonso & masherano/sissoko in cm.

Yes - they probably will in a few games.

But Liverpool don't have a fixed formation - instead they've a manager who analyses every aspect of the game/opposing team and fields a formation/team which he believes is capable of winning the given game. It's never about fielding his best 11 players - it's about fielding the best/most suitable 11 players to do the job against the team in question. iirc he's still only named the same starting team for two games in a row once in 3 years.

Mr Alan

Agger is already a top centre back imo. only major mistake i can think of last year was the away game against Chelsea in the CL and look how well he did in the second leg.

Liverpools defense is good enough to win the title as it is.

Both Liverpool and United conceded 27 goals last year (i know uniteds defense suffered injuries but Liverpool also fielded weakened teams at the end of the year).

And as for Tevez, don't know where he'll go, saying now he wants to go to Real?! other day was saying that he wanted to stay in PL (well definately led people to believe that) and at the start of the week was saying he wanted to go to Inter?!?!?!?!? make up you mind Carlos!

PHB

Liverpools defense is good enough to win the title as it is.

Only because it is defensivly balanced, do you think the Defence would have been as good with Carrick and Scholes as the midfield in front of them?

Dont be at yourself

Just because United won the league playing attack-minded football, it doesn't mean that it's the only way to do it. For Chelsea's titles, the whole team shielded the defence when not on the ball.

Liverpool can win the league with two deep midfielders. Rafa did it in Spain with Valencia, and that's a much more attack-minded league.

PHB

I'm not suggesting you can't win the league with a defensive minded team, I'm saying that a defensive minded team hides the frailties that exist in the back four of that team.
Just look out how Chelsea have done this year without Makelele in front of them.
Liverpool have to shift their balance more towards attack next season if they want any chance, as they are currently more defensive than Chelsea, which is just too defensive. The balance will shift automatically with new signings, like Simao or Malouda who will be by their nature will make the team much more attacking.
Can you win the league with two deep lying midfielders?
Chelsea have never done it, they've played with one deep lying midfielder, a box-to-box dynamo and an attacking midfielder.
Two defensive midfielders in a team makes you just too defensive to breakdown the defensive teams. In some matches, Liverpool will have to swap to just one, or even none, and then the defense will really be tested, and I don't think Agger is up to it yet.

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

I'm not suggesting you can't win the league with a defensive minded team, I'm saying that a defensive minded team hides the frailties that exist in the back four of that team.
Just look out how Chelsea have done this year without Makelele in front of them.
Liverpool have to shift their balance more towards attack next season if they want any chance, as they are currently more defensive than Chelsea, which is just too defensive. The balance will shift automatically with new signings, like Simao or Malouda who will be by their nature will make the team much more attacking.
Can you win the league with two deep lying midfielders?
Chelsea have never done it, they've played with one deep lying midfielder, a box-to-box dynamo and an attacking midfielder.
Two defensive midfielders in a team makes you just too defensive to breakdown the defensive teams. In some matches, Liverpool will have to swap to just one, or even none, and then the defense will really be tested, and I don't think Agger is up to it yet.

but one of those defensive midfielders is Alonso, one of the best passers of the ball in the league.

PHB

Yeh, but it's still too defensive.
Imagine a midfield of Carrick and Hargreaves, who are broadly similar to say Alonso and Mascherano, if you play those two against a team like Derby next season, it's just not attacking enough to win all of those types of games, in those games, United need to play say Carrick and Scholes, or for Liverpool, Alonso and Gerrard, at which point, a lot less defensive cover is offered, and imo, the Liverpool back four has not been tested there.